Sen. Boxer/Condy Rice

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superbird said:
Hey does Byrd oppossing Condi have anything to do with him being an ex KKK member??? Nobody is bringing up the racist trying to stonewall a person of color who is moving up in the world. Something else to think about!!! :magnify: :teacher:
The best response to this baseless attack is to quote the words of one of your fellow conservatives.
dmadman43 said:
What is is they say? If you don't have the law on your side, attack the facts. If you don't have the facts on your side, attack the person. .
Thank you dmadman for pointing what is wrong with superbird's attack on the very compelling case made by Senator Byrd as to the fact that Condi is a liar.
 
WWTBAMFAN said:
The best response to this baseless attack is to quote the words of one of your fellow conservatives.
Thank you dmadman for pointing what is wrong with superbird's attack on the very compelling case made by Senator Byrd as to the fact that Condi is a liar.


Nice try, but no, sorry. Again, your obvious denseness gives you away . This is more apropos for your strategy. You really are incapable of thinking for yourself, aren't you?
 
WWTBAMFAN said:
dmadman, do you realize that your weak response to the excellant points raised by Senator Dayton was by attacking him instead of dealing with the substance of his comments. You are guilty of the crime that you are accusing the democrats of committing. Thank you for the joke. It is one of the funniest things that I have seen in a while.

Now, back to the substance. It is clear that Condi is a liar. She made blanket statements about the stupid tubes when she knew that there was substantial doubt about her claims. Condi has even admitted that she knew back in 2002 that there were problems with the claims about the tubes. See http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/01/18/221700.php These confirmation hearings have been terrible for Condi. She has now been proven to be a liar and will have a difficult time getting any foriegn leader to believe her.

As to dmadman's cute saying, the facts are definitely on the side of the Democrats on this issue and that the only thing that dmadman and bet can do is attack the messenger instead of dealing with the substance of the argument. Thank you for illustrating this for me dmadman.


Was Sen. Dayton lying or was he not when he closed his office based on a supposed terrorist threat? Did he have accurate information or not? If there was no terrorist threat, I can only assume he was lying. Its a simple question. Yes or no? did he close his office based on a non-existent terrorist threat? This is the same sort of logic you are using on Rice.
 
rubyslipperlover said:
I'll be glad to retrieve the NY Times article for you.

I'd be very interested in reading the article. It's what these blow-hard Senators are using as their "proof" that soon-to-be Secretary Rice lied. Since he hasn't produced it for me, I can only assume that WWTBAMFAN never actually read it and is relying on second-hand information from a partisan website.
 

WWTBAMFAN said:
Thank you dmadman for pointing what is wrong with superbird's attack on the very compelling case made by Senator Byrd as to the fact that Condi is a liar.
What that Byrd is a RACIST!!!
 
superbird said:
Hey does Byrd oppossing Condi have anything to do with him being an ex KKK member??? Nobody is bringing up the racist trying to stonewall a person of color who is moving up in the world. Something else to think about!!! :magnify: :teacher:

Here we go again, Republicans play the race card.

It can't possibly be because Rice was one of the authors of this current disaster in Iraq or that she lied through her teeth in the lead up to the war. No, it's got to be race.

Same with Gonzalez. It can't be because he managed to find a way to justify torture legally thereby going against 200 years of history. It's got to be race.

You can almost set your watch to time when some Republican minority runs into a little trouble because of what they say or do and the time they play the race card.

You can also set your watch to time when the "race card" is played on Limbaugh, or Sean Insanity, or O'Reilly to the time when you see the same words regurgitated here.

Btw, Byrd's stint in the KKK was nearly 60 years ago. Did you that Daddy Bush also voted against the Civil Rights Act when he was in Congress?
 
ThAnswr said:
Here we go again, Republicans play the race card.

It can't possibly be because Rice was one of the authors of this current disaster in Iraq or that she lied through her teeth in the lead up to the war. No, it's got to be race.

Same with Gonzalez. It can't be because he managed to find a way to justify torture legally thereby going against 200 years of history. It's got to be race.

You can almost set your watch to time when some Republican minority runs into a little trouble because of what they say or do and the time they play the race card.

You can also set your watch to time when the "race card" is played on Limbaugh, or Sean Insanity, or O'Reilly to the time when you see the same words regurgitated here.

Btw, Byrd's stint in the KKK was nearly 60 years ago. Did you that Daddy Bush also voted against the Civil Rights Act when he was in Congress?
I forgot!! 60 years later it is called "Changing Course" when a lib suppossedly changes his position. The race card is not being played here it is a fact that Byrd was a KKK member. Did he ever apologize for his actions????? I mean it was 60 years ago he had plenty of time. And let's be real with the race card, the dems are the ones that play it every election complaining the republicans are out to get you, cutting anything and everything that interests them saying they don't care about minorities. BTW how many minorities did Clinton have in his cabinet?? Bush goes out and puts the best candidates in his and Albright was his best choice?? Is she not living in France now too??
 
superbird said:
I forgot!! 60 years later it is called "Changing Course" when a lib suppossedly changes his position. The race card is not being played here it is a fact that Byrd was a KKK member. Did he ever apologize for his actions????? I mean it was 60 years ago he had plenty of time. And let's be real with the race card, the dems are the ones that play it every election complaining the republicans are out to get you, cutting anything and everything that interests them saying they don't care about minorities. BTW how many minorities did Clinton have in his cabinet?? Bush goes out and puts the best candidates in his and Albright was his best choice?? Is she not living in France now too??

You Republicans are a real hoot. If you aren't playing the race card, you play the French card. What's next the German card?

Maybe the Bush administration ought to start a rival to Texas Hold-Em poker. Let's call it Rightwing nut poker. You throw out the race card, the French card, and the German card. Then you take the cards back so you can play them another day.

Dealer's choice, anyone?
 
bsnyder said:
You tried this line already. FYI, it makes you sound about 10 years old. :rolleyes:

Sorry to butt in, but I think you're the one who sounds 10 years old... younger, even. What is your problem? Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them a liar.

http://www.rochester-citynews.com/gbase/Gyrosite/Content?oid=oid%3A2990
Questioned Sunday by George Stephanopoulos on ABC's This Week, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice stuck to the message. She had known there was a dispute. She just didn't know (and apparently didn't bother to ask) what the dispute was all about. And she insisted that the "intelligence community assessment as a whole" was that the aluminum tubes were "likely and certainly suitable" for a nuclear-weapons program.

Have a lovely day! I'll butt out now :sunny:
 
ThAnswr said:
You Republicans are a real hoot. If you aren't playing the race card, you play the French card. What's next the German card?

Maybe the Bush administration ought to start a rival to Texas Hold-Em poker. Let's call it Rightwing nut poker. You throw out the race card, the French card, and the German card. Then you take the cards back so you can play them another day.

Dealer's choice, anyone?

Getting called on for "playing the race card" is the REAL hoot, coming from a liberal.
 
superbird said:
I forgot!! 60 years later it is called "Changing Course" when a lib suppossedly changes his position. The race card is not being played here it is a fact that Byrd was a KKK member. Did he ever apologize for his actions????? I mean it was 60 years ago he had plenty of time. And let's be real with the race card, the dems are the ones that play it every election complaining the republicans are out to get you, cutting anything and everything that interests them saying they don't care about minorities. BTW how many minorities did Clinton have in his cabinet?? Bush goes out and puts the best candidates in his and Albright was his best choice?? Is she not living in France now too??

Indeed!. Someone remind me again which party tried to drum Sen Lott out over something that essentially happened 60 years ago?
 
superbird said:
What that Byrd is a RACIST!!!
This is the latest digusting talking point from the true racists at the GOP. See http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/view/1739
I had planned to ignore this, but it's too dumb not to. The germ of this meme was planted on Newsmax.com, now thanks to folks like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Reynolds (increasingly, I can't tell the difference - though to his credit I don't believe Reynolds is hooked on "hillbilly heroin"), sprinkled along by Malagang and then spread to our national Pravda (Fox News).

For those playing at home, this is how the noise machine works.

The charge? How dare, Robert Byrd, that former Klansman be opposed to the Right's Cinderella (aka Condi Rice). The Democrats must be racist.

Never mind that Byrd has repudiated his past (can't say the same for Trent Lott) and has a better issue on race issues than the bulk of the GOP caucus. Oh, Senator Byrd was right about the war in Iraq too.

It is kind of funny, coming from the party of the southern strategy, who tries election after election to block blacks from voting, then derides them as mindless pickaninnies when they vote overwhelmingly democratic, and then for the coup de gras pays off marginal black pundits to sell them down the river.

They're just dumb on purpose.
If superbird truly cared about racism, superbird would be telling the GOP to stop the voter suppression and intimidation that is part of the GOP's southern strategy. The concept of a member of the GOP callilng anyone a racist is just plain dumb.
 
bsnyder said:
I'd be very interested in reading the article. It's what these blow-hard Senators are using as their "proof" that soon-to-be Secretary Rice lied. Since he hasn't produced it for me, I can only assume that WWTBAMFAN never actually read it and is relying on second-hand information from a partisan website.
Bet, do you ever get tired of being wrong?? Here is a link to the NYT piece. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/i...6888400&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position= Since this is a very long piece, I will not post all of it on this thread. Here is an editoral form the NYT that will explain this article to you (I suspect that you need this help). See http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/opinion/05tue1.html?ex=1106888400&en=2c5d9d79614cff11&ei=5070
Of all the justifications that President Bush gave for invading Iraq, the most terrifying was that Saddam Hussein was on the brink of developing a nuclear bomb that he might use against the United States or give to terrorists. Ever since we learned that this was not true, the question has been whether Mr. Bush gave a good-faith account of the best available intelligence, or knowingly deceived the public. The more we learn about the way Mr. Bush paved the road to war, the more it becomes disturbingly clear that if he was not aware that he was feeding misinformation to the world, he was about the only one in his circle who had not been clued in.

The foundation for the administration's claim that it acted on an honest assessment of intelligence analysis - and the president's frequent claim that Congress had the same information he had - has been steadily eroded by the reports from the Senate Intelligence Committee and the 9/11 commission. A lengthy report in The Times on Sunday removed any lingering doubts.

The only physical evidence the administration offered for an Iraqi nuclear program were the 60,000 aluminum tubes that Baghdad set out to buy in early 2001; some of them were seized in Jordan. Even though Iraq had a history of using the same tubes to make small rockets, the president and his closest advisers told the American people that the overwhelming consensus of government experts was that these new tubes were to be used to make nuclear bomb fuel. Now we know there was no such consensus. Mr. Bush's closest advisers say they didn't know that until after they had made the case for war. But in fact, they had plenty of evidence that the claim was baseless; it was a long-discounted theory that had to be resurrected from the intelligence community's wastebasket when the administration needed justification for invading Iraq.

The tubes-for-bombs theory was the creation of a low-level C.I.A. analyst who got his facts, even the size of the tubes, wrong. It was refuted within 24 hours by the Energy Department, which issued three papers debunking the idea over a four-month period in 2001, and by the International Atomic Energy Agency. A week before Mr. Bush's 2003 State of the Union address, in which he warned of an Iraqi nuclear menace, international experts in Vienna had dismissed the C.I.A.'s theory about the tubes. The day before, the International Atomic Energy Agency said there was no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear program and rejected the tubes' tale entirely.

It's shocking that with all this information readily available, Secretary of State Colin Powell still went before the United Nations to repeat the bogus claims, an appearance that gravely damaged his reputation. It's even more disturbing that Vice President Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, had not only failed to keep the president from misleading the American people, but had also become the chief proponents of the "mushroom cloud" rhetoric.

Ms. Rice had access to all the reports debunking the tubes theory when she first talked about it publicly in September 2002. Yet last Sunday, Ms. Rice said that while she had been aware of a "dispute" about the tubes, she had not specifically known what it was about until after she had told the world that Saddam was building the bomb.

Ms. Rice's spokesman, Sean McCormack, said it was not her job to question intelligence reports or "to referee disputes in the intelligence community." But even with that curious job disclaimer, it's no comfort to think that the national security adviser wouldn't have bothered to inform herself about such a major issue before speaking publicly. The national security adviser has no more important responsibility than making sure that the president gets the best advice on life-and-death issues like the war.

If Ms. Rice did her job and told Mr. Bush how ludicrous the case was for an Iraqi nuclear program, then Mr. Bush terribly misled the public. If not, she should have resigned for allowing her boss to start a war on the basis of bad information and an incompetent analysis.
Again, it is clear that Rice knew that the claims about the tubes were false when made and she lied to the American public.
 
WWTBAMFAN said:
Bet, do you ever get tired of being wrong?? Here is a link to the NYT piece. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/i...6888400&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position= Since this is a very long piece, I will not post all of it on this thread. Here is an editoral form the NYT that will explain this article to you (I suspect that you need this help). See http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/opinion/05tue1.html?ex=1106888400&en=2c5d9d79614cff11&ei=5070 Again, it is clear that Rice knew that the claims about the tubes were false when made and she lied to the American public.


Give it up, "counselor". She was confirmed. Your arguments are moot.
 
dmadman43 said:
She was confirmed. Your arguments are moot.
The truth is never moot dmadman. Condi is a liar and this is going to affect her ability to do her job. Do you really think that any foriegn leader is going to take anything that Condi says seriously given the fact that it has now been well documented that Condi is liar.

I found this piece on the John Kerry website that documents that Condi is a liar. See http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_1010.html
Today, Condoleezza Rice asserted she was not aware of the serious questions over the purpose of the aluminum tubes at the time that she publicly stated that they were indisputable evidence that Iraq was trying to reconstitute its nuclear program. However, recent news reports show that almost a year before she made those statements, her staff had been told that the country’s leading nuclear weapons experts at the Department of Energy believed these tubes were for likely for artillery rockets. Furthermore, as recently as last week, Rice claimed that there was still legitimate dispute about what the tubes were for, directly contradicting the Duelfer Report and the current consensus in the intelligence community that the tubes were not intended for nuclear purposes.

Rice Now Claims She Did Not Know Of the Energy Department’s Objections at the Time she said the Aluminum Tubes were for Nuclear Purposes. Today, Dr. Rice claimed “We did not learn the nature of that dispute until the N.I.E. was being produced almost a month later.” [FOX News Sunday, 10/10/04]

FACT: Rice Knew That Government Experts Disagreed With Assessment Of The Aluminum Tubes. Before her making her statement that the aluminum tubes were only intended for nuclear programs, Condoleezza Rice was aware that the government’s foremost nuclear experts had concluded that the tubes were most likely not for nuclear weapons at all… In fact, almost a year before, her staff had been told that these experts, at the Energy Department, “seriously doubted that the tubes were for nuclear weapons” according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and two senior administration officials. [New York Times, 10/2/04
Before The War, Rice Said That Aluminum Tubes Were Only Suited For Nuclear Programs. In the lead-up to the war in Iraq, Condoleezza Rice said on CNN that the aluminum tubes were “only really suited for nuclear weapons programs.” [CNN, 9/8/02]

FACT: Almost One Year Earlier, Energy Department Believed The Tubes Were Intended For Rockets. According to officials at the CIA and senior administration officials, experts at the Energy Department “believed the tubes were likely intended for small artillery rockets.” [New York Times, 10/2/04]
Rice Says The Intelligence Community Is Still Debating Purpose Of The Tubes. Rice said last week, “As I understand it, people are still debating [if the aluminum tubes were intended for nuclear purposes.” [ABC, “This Week, 10/3/04]

FACT: Duelfer Report Said That Aluminum Tubes Were Intended For Rocket Programs.
Levin: Now relative to the aluminum tubes, your report says on page 21 that Baghdad’s interest in high strength, high specification aluminum tubes is best explained by its efforts to produce 81 mm rockets. Is that correct?
Duelfer: That is correct. That is my judgment that those -- those tubes were most likely destined for a rocket program. [Senate Armed Services Committee, 10/6/04]
This thread has been fun. You, Bet and others challeged us to show that Condi is a liar. After it has been demonstrated that Condi lied, you want to change the subject. Remember the truth is never moot and the fact that Condi has been documented as a liar will bear on her ability to serve as Sec. of State.
 
That's putting some real spin on it. Rice was approved overwhelmingly. The concerns were obviously heard by all and ultimately rejected by the vast majority of the Senate.

I don't bad mouth those Senators who felt some parts of her record were cause for concern. That's their perogative. But it's hard to get Senators these days to agree on the color of the sky. Getting 85 to agree on something is pretty darned good.
 
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