Sen. Boxer/Condy Rice

[Sirius]

This is the typical Democart approach. If you have no substantive argument or rational basis for debate, call the other people liars, over and over and over again. Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry or Bryd can't possibly match wits with Dr. Rice, so they fall back to calling her a liar.


Again I find it ironic that the Demonrats allowed Robert Byrd, a cross-burning, black-hating, sheet-wearing, Klan-recruiting Senator (Racist - West Virginia) to lead the charge against Dr. Rice. Their masks have slipped a bit to show the hoods underneath.


I found these quotes quite interesting:

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement."
- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed."
- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability."
- Robert Byrd, October 2002

LIARS!!!!!!

So you finally agree that Bush is a liar! Thank you.

 

[dmadman43]

So you finally agree that Bush is a liar! Thank you.

Is real simple. In order to tell a lie, you not only have to say something that turns out to be untrue, you have to know that it is untrue at the time that you say it. With all the intelligence services in the world reporting that Saddam had WMD, Rice would have needed some other source of information that she was conviced was more correct than all the world's intelligence agencies. Please provide that source that Dr. Rice had.

Otherwise, Boxer, Kennedy, and Bryd are looking even more foolish than even, as they are on record as stating the Saddam posssesed WMD>

 

[dmadman43]

You may not like it but there is clear proof that Condi is a liar.

Please cite the information that Dr. Rice had that was contrary to what all other intelligence agencies had. Thanks.

 

[bsnyder]

You are wrong and evidently have not read or if you did read did not understand the posts on this thread. Condi is a liar. IN particular, Condi lied about the aluminum tubes. See
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0501/S00142.htm She knew that the key experts in the US government had determined that the tubes were not suitable for a nuclear program but she went on using this lie anyway. You may not like it but there is clear proof that Condi is a liar.

It's proof of nothing except that you're a liar.

P.S. your NY Times link doesn't work. The article is archived. If you bought it, perhaps you'd share it with us. If you didn't, then aren't you the liar to claim something as proof that you haven't even read yet.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

Please cite the information that Dr. Rice had that was contrary to what all other intelligence agencies had. Thanks.

This is common knowledge that you would be aware of if you read anything but that blog (Sound Politics) or the free republic. Here is a good piece on this issue See http://www.topplebush.com/article25_recpres.shtml

Cheney, Rumsfeld, and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice appeared on the political talk shows to trumpet the discovery of the tubes and the Iraqi nuclear threat. Explained Rice, "There will always be some uncertainty about how quickly [Saddam] can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." Rumsfeld added, "Imagine a September eleventh with weapons of mass destruction. It's not three thousand--it's tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children."

Many of the intelligence analysts who had participated in the aluminum-tubes debate were appalled. One described the feeling to TNR: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie." Albright, of the Institute for Science and International Security, recalled, "I became dismayed when a knowledgeable government scientist told me that the administration could say anything it wanted about the tubes while government scientists who disagreed were expected to remain quiet." As Thielmann puts it, "There was a lot of evidence about the Iraqi chemical and biological weapons programs to be concerned about. Why couldn't we just be honest about that without hyping the nuclear account? Making the case for active pursuit of nuclear weapons makes it look like the administration was trying to scare the American people about how dangerous Iraq was and how it posed an imminent security threat to the United States."

There is a ton of articles on this issue and I will be glad to bury you and Bet with the facts if you want. The fact that the Department of Energy and the State Department both concluded that the tubes were not suitable for use in centifrudges and Rice issued her lies knowing these conclusions is well established.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

Senator Dayton addreseed Condi's lies about the tubes today. Here are some excepts from his statement.

STATEMENT BY SENATOR MARK DAYTON ON THE NOMINATION OF DR. CONDOLEEZZA RICE TO BECOME SECRETARY OF STATE

THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I RISE TODAY TO ALSO OPPOSE THE NOMINATION OF NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER CONDOLEEZZA RICE FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

I DO SO, BECAUSE SHE MISLED ME ABOUT THE SITUATION IN IRAQ BEFORE AND AFTER THE CONGRESSIONAL RESOLUTION IN OCTOBER, 2002, AUTHORIZING THAT WAR, A RESOLUTION THAT I OPPOSED. SHE MISLED OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ABOUT THE SITUATION IN IRAQ, MEMBERS WHO HAVE SAID THAT THEY WOULD HAVE OPPOSED THAT RESOLUTION IF THEY HAD BEEN TOLD THE TRUTH. AND SHE MISLED THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA AND AMERICANS EVERYWHERE ABOUT THE SITUATION IN IRAQ, BEFORE AND AFTER THAT WAR BEGAN.....

DR. RICE STATED IN A TELEVISION INTERVIEW ON DECEMBER 8, 2002, AS THE ADMINISTRATION WAS LAUNCHING ITS CAMPAIGN TO SCARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND STAMPEDE CONGRESS ABOUT SADDAM HUSSEIN'S SUPPOSEDLY URGENT THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY. SHE SHREWDLY INVOKED THE ULTIMATE THREAT THAT HE POSSESSED OR WOULD SOON POSSESS NUCLEAR WEAPONS. SHE SAID THAT DAY -- QUOTE -- "WE DON'T WANT THE SMOKING GUN TO BE A MUSHROOM CLOUD."

SOON THEREAFTER, SHE AND OTHER TOP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS CITED INTERCEPTED ALUMINUM TUBES AS DEFINITE PROOF THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN HAD AN ACTIVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM UNDER WAY. DR. RICE STATED PUBLICLY AT THE TIME -- QUOTE -- "THE TUBES ARE ONLY REALLY SUITED FOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAMS, CENTRIFUGE PROGRAMS."

IN LATE SEPTEMBER OF 2002, SHORTLY BEFORE WE IN CONGRESS WERE TO VOTE ON THE IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION, DR. RICE INVITED ME ALONG WITH, I BELIEVE, FIVE OF MY SENATE COLLEAGUES TO THE WHITE HOUSE, WHERE WE WERE BRIEFED BY HER AND THEN-C.I.A. DIRECTOR GEORGE TENET. THAT BRIEFING WAS CLASSIFIED. WHAT I WAS SHOWN AND TOLD CONFORMED TO DR. RICE'S PUBLIC STATEMENTS WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS WHATSOEVER.

NOW, OF COURSE, WE HAVE BEEN TOLD AFTER AN EXHAUSTIVE SEARCH FOR 18 MONTHS BY OVER 1,400 UNITED STATES WEAPONS INSPECTORS THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN DID NOT HAVE AN ACTIVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM UNDER WAY AND THAT HE, APPARENTLY, POSSESSED NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION OF ANY KIND.

WE'VE ALSO BEEN TOLD THAT IN THE FALL OF 2002, RIGHT AT THE TIME OF MY MEETING IN THE WHITE HOUSE, RIGHT AT THE TIME OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE VOTES ON THE IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION, THE TOP NUCLEAR EXPERTS AT THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY AND OFFICIALS IN OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES WERE DISAGREEING STRONGLY WITH DR. RICE'S CLAIM THAT THOSE ALUMINUM TUBES COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN INTENDED FOR USE IN DEVELOPING NUCLEAR WEAPONS MATERIALS. THAT EXPERT DISSENT AND HONEST DISAGREEMENT, A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW, WAS NOT COMMUNICATED TO ME; NOR WAS IT BROUGHT TO ME LATER, IF IT WAS NOT KNOWN AT THE TIME. I RECEIVED NO PHONE CALL OR LETTER TO SAY, NO, SENATOR DAYTON, I JUST WANTED TO CORRECT A MISIMPRESSION THAT I GAVE YOU AT THAT MEETING. I NOW HAVE INFORMATION THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT YOU WERE TOLD THEN. I STILL BELIEVE IN MY OWN VIEW, BUT I WANT YOU TO BE AWARE OF OTHERS BEFORE YOU CAST THE MOST IMPORTANT VOTE IN YOUR SENATE CAREER. OR EVEN A CALL OR COMMUNICATION AFTER THAT VOTE WAS CAST, THERE WAS NOTHING......

I DON'T LIKE TO IMPUGN ANYONE'S INTEGRITY, BUT I REALLY DON'T LIKE BEING LIED TO REPEATEDLY, FLAGRANTLY, INTENTIONALLY. IT'S WRONG. IT'S UNDEMOCRATIC, IT'S UN-AMERICAN, AND IT'S DANGEROUS. IT IS VERY, VERY DANGEROUS. AND IT IS OCCURRING FAR TOO FREQUENTLY IN THIS ADMINISTRATION. AND THIS CONGRESS, THIS SENATE MUST DEMAND THAT IT STOP NOW.

MY VOTE AGAINST THIS NOMINATION IS MY STATEMENT THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION'S LYING MUST STOP NOW. I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO JOIN ME IN THIS DEMAND, DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENTS; WE ARE ALL, ALL OF US, FIRST AND FOREMOST AMERICANS. WE MUST BE TOLD THE TRUTH, IF WE'RE TO GOVERN OUR COUNTRY AND TO PRESERVE OUR WORLD, AND THAT'S WHY WE MUST VOTE AGAINST THIS NOMINATION.

This senator does a great job of laying out why and how Condi lied. Bet, are you going to tell this Senator that he lying about his own meetings with Condi??

 

[bsnyder]

Senator Dayton addreseed Condi's lies about the tubes today. Here are some excepts from his statement. This senator does a great job of laying out why and how Condi lied. Bet, are you going to tell this Senator that he lying about his own meetings with Condi??

If the definition of lying includes using long-after-the-fact knowledge, ommissions and distortions, which you and others on this thread are claiming that it does, then yes, I'm calling Senator Dayton a liar too.

I'd also call him cowardly and a political opportunist of the worst sort.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

If the definition of lying includes using long-after-the-fact knowledge, ommissions and distortions, which you and others on this thread are claiming that it does, then yes, I'm calling Senator Dayton a liar too.

You are wrong in your charges. Condi knew at the time she was issuing the lies about these stupid tubes that her statements were lies. Lets look at the NYT article that you accused me of lying about (one of your funniest and silliest accusations yet). See
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/2/15543/0416

In 2002, at a crucial juncture on the path to war, senior members of the Bush administration gave a series of speeches and interviews in which they asserted that Saddam Hussein was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program. In a speech to veterans that August, Vice President Dick Cheney said Mr. Hussein could have an atomic bomb "fairly soon." President Bush, addressing the United Nations the next month, said there was "little doubt" about Mr. Hussein's appetite for nuclear arms.

The United States intelligence community had not yet concluded that Iraq was rebuilding its nuclear weapons program. But as the vice president told a group of Wyoming Republicans that September, the United States had "irrefutable evidence" - thousands of tubes made of high-strength aluminum, tubes that the Bush administration said were destined for clandestine Iraqi uranium centrifuges, before some were seized at the behest of the United States.

The tubes quickly became a critical exhibit in the administration's brief against Iraq. As the only physical evidence the United States of Mr. Hussein's revived nuclear ambitions, they gave credibility to the apocalyptic imagery invoked by President Bush and his advisers. The tubes were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs," Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, asserted on CNN on Sept. 8, 2002. "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

But before Ms. Rice made those remarks, she was aware that the government's foremost nuclear experts had concluded that the tubes were most likely not for nuclear weapons at all, an examination by The New York Times has found. As early as 2001, her staff had been told that these experts, at the Energy Department, believed the tubes were probably intended for small artillery rockets, according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and a senior administration official, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information.

"She was aware of the differences of opinion," the senior administration official said in an interview authorized by the White House. "She was also aware that at the highest level of the intelligence community, there was great confidence that these tubes were for centrifuges."

Ms. Rice's alarming description on CNN was in keeping with the Bush administration's overall treatment of the tubes. Senior administration officials repeatedly failed to fully disclose the contrary views of America's leading nuclear scientists, The Times found. They sometimes overstated even the most dire intelligence assessments of the tubes, yet minimized or rejected the strong doubts of their own experts. They worried privately that the nuclear case was weak, but expressed sober certitude in public.

None of Senator Dayton's comments were based on after the fact discovered information. At the time that Condi was lying to Senator Dayton and to the American public, she knew that the statements about the tubes were lies. Bet, you are wrong here and really need to open your eyes to the facts. You may be too deeply in denial to see the facts but the facts are there. Remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[BuckNaked]

Committee hearings, senate speeches, posturing on both sides, and the bottom line is still the same - she'll be confirmed.

 

[bsnyder]

You are wrong in your charges. Condi knew at the time she was issuing the lies about these stupid tubes that her statements were lies. Lets look at the NYT article that you accused me of lying about (one of your funniest and silliest accusations yet). See
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/2/15543/0416

Your link doesn't take me to the NY Times article. It takes me to a partisan blog with a link to an archived article. Try again, silly.

 

[bsnyder]

Committee hearings, senate speeches, posturing on both sides, and the bottom line is still the same - she'll be confirmed.

Yep. REAL courageous, isn't it? I'm in awe.



I haven't looked at the list yet, of the Democratic Senators who are opposing the nomination. But I'll bet not a one of them is worried about re-election in 2006.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

Here are the statements from Senator Byrd on Condi being a liar with regards to the stupid tubes. See http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=4

Dr. Rice is responsible for some of the most overblown rhetoric that the Administration used to scare the American people into believing that there was an imminent threat from Iraq. On September 8, 2002, Dr. Rice conjured visions of American cities being consumed by mushroom clouds. On an appearance on CNN, she warned: “The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he [Saddam] can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.”

Dr. Rice also claimed that she had conclusive evidence about Iraq’s alleged nuclear weapons program. During that same interview, she also said: “We do know that he is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon. We do know that there have been shipments going into… Iraq, for instance, of aluminum tubes… that are really only suited for nuclear weapons programs.”

We now know that Iraq’s nuclear program was a fiction. Charles Duelfer, the chief arms inspector of the CIA’s Iraq Survey Group, reported on September 30, 2004: “Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. [The Iraq Survey Group] found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program.”

But Dr. Rice’s statements in 2002 were not only wrong, they also did not accurately reflect the intelligence reports of the time. Declassified portions of the CIA’s National Intelligence Estimate from October 2002 make it clear that there were disagreements among our intelligence analysts about the state of Iraq’s nuclear program. But Dr. Rice seriously misrepresented their disputes when she categorically stated, “We do know that [Saddam] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon.”

Her allegation also misrepresented to the American people the controversy in those same intelligence reports about the aluminum tubes. Again, Dr. Rice said that these tubes were “really only suited for nuclear weapons programs.” But intelligence experts at the State Department and the Department of Energy believed that those tubes had nothing to do with building a nuclear weapon, and made their dissent known in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate. This view, which was at odds with Dr. Rice’s representations, was later confirmed by the International Atomic Energy Agency and our own CIA arms inspectors.

Senator Byrd makes the case very clearly that Condi lied to the Senate and to the American public about the reasons for going to war in Iraq. These lies were known to Condi at the time she made them and were part of a pattern of deception.

The fact that Condi is a liar is well documented. The rest of the world also knows that Condi is a liar (the articles that I posted and the comments on the Senate floor are not secret). How can we expect other world leaders to trust a liar like Condi??

Bet, remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[BuckNaked]

Bet, remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Since you keep saying it, I think the chances of her not remembering it are pretty low.

 

[bsnyder]

Bet, remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

You tried this line already. FYI, it makes you sound about 10 years old.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

I simply do not see how Rice is going to get any world leader to believe anything that she says in the future. These debates have made clear that she has no credibility. See http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&e=1&u=/thenation/20050126/cm_thenation/12148

Give Barbara Boxer credit for sparking the most engaged debate that the Senate has yet seen over the Bush administration lies that led the United States into the quagmire that is Iraq ....

Rice knew she was taking a harder hit than anyone had expected. The Secretary of State nominee tried to get the upper hand with classic Washington spin. "Senator," Rice whined, "I have never, ever lost respect for the truth in the service of anything. It's not in my nature. It's not in my character. And I would hope we could have this conversation... without impugning my credibility or my integrity."

Rice's problem was that her credibility and integrity had been impugned -- not by Boxer but by the nominee herself. All Boxer did was bring Rice's deceptions to light and, perhaps most significantly, to link them to the continuing crisis in Iraq. In so doing, she shamed a number of her fellow Democrats into joining her in opposition not just to Rice but to the administration's entire approach to the war.

Tuesday's Senate debate was distinguished by the bluntness of the criticism of Rice's record. "She exaggerated and distorted the facts," said Michigan's Carl Levin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites). Minnesota Democrat Mark Dayton announced that he was opposing Rice nomination in order to whole the administration accountable for its lies. "I don't like impugning anyone's integrity," Dayton said. "But I really don't like being lied to -- repeatedly, flagrantly, intentionally."

"My vote against this nominee is my statement that this administration's lies must stop now," the Minnesotan explained.

The fact that Condi lied is easy to proved and has been established in the Senate debate. Condi is going to have a hard time getting any other world leader to believe her about anything.

 

[superbird]

Here are the statements from Senator Byrd on Condi being a liar with regards to the stupid tubes. See http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=4 Senator Byrd makes the case very clearly that Condi lied to the Senate and to the American public about the reasons for going to war in Iraq. These lies were known to Condi at the time she made them and were part of a pattern of deception.

The fact that Condi is a liar is well documented. The rest of the world also knows that Condi is a liar (the articles that I posted and the comments on the Senate floor are not secret). How can we expect other world leaders to trust a liar like Condi??

Bet, remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Hey does Byrd oppossing Condi have anything to do with him being an ex KKK member??? Nobody is bringing up the racist trying to stonewall a person of color who is moving up in the world. Something else to think about!!!

 

[dmadman43]

You are wrong in your charges. Condi knew at the time she was issuing the lies about these stupid tubes that her statements were lies. Lets look at the NYT article that you accused me of lying about (one of your funniest and silliest accusations yet). See
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/2/15543/0416 None of Senator Dayton's comments were based on after the fact discovered information. At the time that Condi was lying to Senator Dayton and to the American public, she knew that the statements about the tubes were lies. Bet, you are wrong here and really need to open your eyes to the facts. You may be too deeply in denial to see the facts but the facts are there. Remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Isn't Sen Dayton the same one that closed his office in Washington due to a supposed terror threat? Did he lie to the people about the substance of the threat? Did he lie to his fellow members of Congress on why he shut his office? LIAR!!

What is is they say? If you don't have the law on your side, attack the facts. If you don't have the facts on your side, attack the person. I think that pretty much sums up your strategy, and the Dem, flkhou.

 

[superbird]

So you finally agree that Bush is a liar! Thank you.

Hey I have not been annoyed yet by you since you do not think and continue to lie like your hero's in the senate like the racist Byrd!!

 

[rubyslipperlover]

It's proof of nothing except that you're a liar.

P.S. your NY Times link doesn't work. The article is archived. If you bought it, perhaps you'd share it with us. If you didn't, then aren't you the liar to claim something as proof that you haven't even read yet.

sounds to me like you're making a personal attack here, calling someone a liar.

I'll be glad to retrieve the NY Times article for you.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

Isn't Sen Dayton the same one that closed his office in Washington due to a supposed terror threat? Did he lie to the people about the substance of the threat? Did he lie to his fellow members of Congress on why he shut his office? LIAR!!

What is is they say? If you don't have the law on your side, attack the facts. If you don't have the facts on your side, attack the person. .

dmadman, do you realize that your weak response to the excellant points raised by Senator Dayton was by attacking him instead of dealing with the substance of his comments. You are guilty of the crime that you are accusing the democrats of committing. Thank you for the joke. It is one of the funniest things that I have seen in a while.

Now, back to the substance. It is clear that Condi is a liar. She made blanket statements about the stupid tubes when she knew that there was substantial doubt about her claims. Condi has even admitted that she knew back in 2002 that there were problems with the claims about the tubes. See http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/01/18/221700.php

On October 7, 2002, the president announced that "Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." Soon after, the New York Times reported that "it was the intelligence agencies' unanimous view" that the tubes "are used to make…centrifuges" to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.

But after an analysis, the experts concluded the tubes were "poorly suited for use in gas centrifuges" and as a result they found "unpersuasive the arguments that they are intended for that purpose." This was enough to convince the State Department's intelligence experts that "the tubes are not intended for use in Iraq's nuclear weapon program." But Rice still described the tubes as "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs" and claimed that the finding was unanimous.

Then, almost two years later, on October of 2004, speaking on ABC's This Week, Condoleezza Rice admitted that she had known of the dispute among experts about aluminum tubes but said "she didn't know (and apparently didn't bother to ask) what the dispute was all about. And she insisted that the 'intelligence community assessment as a whole' was that the aluminum tubes were 'likely and certainly suitable' for a nuclear-weapons program."

These confirmation hearings have been terrible for Condi. She has now been proven to be a liar and will have a difficult time getting any foriegn leader to believe her.

As to dmadman's cute saying, the facts are definitely on the side of the Democrats on this issue and that the only thing that dmadman and bet can do is attack the messenger instead of dealing with the substance of the argument. Thank you for illustrating this for me dmadman.