Selling of the fastpass....

[mattsdragon]

I probably shouldn't have even gone there as my Alma Mater--Maryland--has been in a rough stretch here lately, but oh well. Can't help how you feel right?

Fear the Turtle!

The Turtle?

Which Maryland school made the basketball Tourney this year. . .and won the Lacross National Championship (without Dave Cottle I might add. . .)

 

[Wadecool]

You are right. People dont like to have their hypocrisy pointed out and their selective following of Disney policy being brought to light.

For that to have happened, you would have needed to present something to the contrary other than you own opinion.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I don't think that means what you think it means.




I am not using a straw man argument. I am stating what the Disney internal policy was for years, and have offered up some compelling evidence to support that (which you pretend somehow does not apply).

You are the one twisting statements. You are the one who talked about fastpass hoarders and late fastpass users causing problems, though you have no evidence to support either of these. If anyone is using strawmen, it's not me.

You went off on a tangent into FP ratios that I NEVER mentioned because you intentionally missed my point.

the evidence is plain to see because people pulled FPs in the past that they could use at their convenience whereas if they had to use them in the prescribed window then they wouldnt have necessarily pulled them thus leaving more FPs available later into the day. It really is a simple concept to grasp that I am sure you do but you refuse to acknowledge it and would rather shift focus away from any problems that were caused my late FP usage.

According to that memo, internal policy for years was for FPs to be used within their window. It became a matter of service recovery though and the enforcement of the policy changed. It clearly states that it was not a change of policy in that CM memo. Dont know why you would want to deny it and you are the one that doesnt think what is stated doesnt apply.

 

[goofy4tink]

Can you not see the evidence you requested posted 10 minutes before your comment above? That's been posted here on the boards many times, just because you didn't see it, there's no need to make such snide and rude comments.

Much easier to ignore it and then say it has no validity.

Fastpass verbiage was always set up to have you return within the time allotted. Ergo, no change in public policy.

Internal policy had for years been to allow late fastpass use. We accidentally used fastpass late in our first trip - 2003 - and were told the same as we were told in 2011, that they were good until park close.


But what difference does any of this make? You are going to choose to believe what you want.

Let's not go back to the days when you could hold onto the FP and use them on subsequent trips. Man, that must have really messed up the wait times!!! People would bring back FPs and use them months after the FP was issued. Then, Disney started putting the date on 'em...and then said they could be used only on that day. Things change.

Then again...Disney did away with E-nights. Why?? They tried to tell us that the guests wanted more character interaction, so they were having character caravans go to the resorts in the mornings. After a few months of that, they stopped..no one cared!!!!

 

[hawkeyesparks]

To be honest the idea is so riduclous it's hilarious. I can see some shady looking dad over by Peter pan with his pencil thin mustache looking all secretive saying to a passing family, "Hey, come over here, how about I give you FP to Peter Pan for you whole family for $5 per ticket, and because it's you I'll throw in a set of FP Splash Mtn. for an extra $20."

 

[chuckml]

what substance have you even added beyond your off topic ramblings and egging on others?

You say I need to get a life when you continued to post on this thread.

now that is a true...Pot, meet kettle

What is it you'd like me to add, UNC? Many, many posters have explained this topic to you ad nauseum on several threads, yet you refuse to see anything but what you want to see.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I grow tired of someone questioning my morals and ethics over something as small and petty as a stupid FP used after it's return time--which was allowed by the way, not sure if you'd heard that.

You've been on this board for what, a couple of months, and I bet if I, or anyone else did a search on your posts, we wouldn't find one helpful thing stated in any of them. I'd wager that 95% of your posts are FP related--am I right?

So keep contributing the way you are, it'll make you real popular.

I've been on this board for 3 years now, and you're dangerously close to being the first poster to find their way to my ignore list.

Waiting on my infraction points.

 

[chuckml]

The Turtle?

Which Maryland school made the basketball Tourney this year. . .and won the Lacross National Championship (without Dave Cottle I might add. . .)

Not gonna lie, this hurts a little.

 

[t_catt11]

You went off on a tangent into FP ratios that I NEVER mentioned because you intentionally missed my point.

the evidence is plain to see because people pulled FPs in the past that they could use at their convenience whereas if they had to use them in the prescribed window then they wouldnt have necessarily pulled them thus leaving more FPs available later into the day. It really is a simple concept to grasp that I am sure you do but you refuse to acknowledge it and would rather shift focus away from any problems that were caused my late FP usage.

According to that memo, internal policy for years was for FPs to be used within their window. It became a matter of service recovery though and the enforcement of the policy changed. It clearly states that it was not a change of policy in that CM memo. Dont know why you would want to deny it and you are the one that doesnt think what is stated doesnt apply.

I went off on the "tangent" because you seem to miss the fundamental concept of how fastpass works. You're the person who says that fastpass hoarders make the lines longer, not me. I tried to explain why that isn't the case, but it doesn't fit your preconceived notion, so naturally, I'm going off on a tangent that doesn't apply.

You describe some perfect world where people don't pull fastpasses if the return time doesn't match their plans. I submit to you that the lines for Toy Story are no shorter than they were on March 6th, and that I will still pick up a fastpass no matter the return time. For a high demand attraction, people will simply be sure to be there in the return window.

I have never seen late returns to be an issue. On the other hand, I've seen many a return line blocked by a group of folks trying to get in early. Most people use fastpass as quickly as they possibly can.

Service recovery, internal policy. Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe. Disney used to take fastpasses late and trained their CMs to do this. Now, they train them to NOT take them late. Call it what you like, but that is the reality, and your label means zip.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming doesn't apply. This doesn't seem to follow the rest of your disjointed rant.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I went off on the "tangent" because you seem to miss the fundamental concept of how fastpass works. You're the person who says that fastpass hoarders make the lines longer, not me. I tried to explain why that isn't the case, but it doesn't fit your preconceived notion, so naturally, I'm going off on a tangent that doesn't apply.

Where did I say FP lines were longer because of FP hoarders? Can you point that out? I said they made FPs be distributed at a higher rate.

You describe some perfect world where people don't pull fastpasses if the return time doesn't match their plans. I submit to you that the lines for Toy Story are no shorter than they were on March 6th, and that I will still pick up a fastpass no matter the return time. For a high demand attraction, people will simply be sure to be there in the return window.

Its not a hard concept to follow. Only pull FPs if return times work. Its the way the system was designed from day 1 because the enforced return windows when the program was first introduced. AGAIN, i said nothing about line length.

I have never seen late returns to be an issue. On the other hand, I've seen many a return line blocked by a group of folks trying to get in early. Most people use fastpass as quickly as they possibly can.

Doesnt mean it hasnt been an issue in some case just because you havent seen it. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Service recovery, internal policy. Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe. Disney used to take fastpasses late and trained their CMs to do this. Now, they train them to NOT take them late. Call it what you like, but that is the reality, and your label means zip.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming doesn't apply. This doesn't seem to follow the rest of your disjointed rant.

It does matter because people keep claiming it was always disney policy when in fact only enforcement changed.

you seem to think that when the memo says it wasnt a change in policy that somehow that doesnt apply.

And your disjointed rant with misinformation about what is printed on FPs is clear? If you cant get it right on what it says on FPs at the current time, then what credibility do you have? seems a pretty simple matter to be right about

 

[Wadecool]

the evidence is plain to see because people pulled FPs in the past that they could use at their convenience whereas if they had to use them in the prescribed window then they wouldnt have necessarily pulled them thus leaving more FPs available later into the day. It really is a simple concept to grasp that I am sure you do but you refuse to acknowledge it and would rather shift focus away from any problems that were caused my late FP usage.

Using the word "evidence" without any tangible proof to back it up looks silly.

What about the people who pulled FP's fully expecting to use them within the window and for whatever reason were delayed getting back to the attraction? Any amount of time here on the DIS will tell you that this scenario happens often. A reasonable person can deduce that out of the group of people who used FP's late, a considerable number of those had every intention of using their FP's on time when they got them. The change in FP policy would not have affected those folks, would it? The statement in bold is a shining example of a fallacy, as in "a failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid."

 

[mattsdragon]

Not gonna lie, this hurts a little.

Sorry, but it's been so many years since we've had any success in anything, and I always thought Cottle was a big jerk when he was the coach (I was a student back then), so I gotta rub it in a bit.

Plus, anything I can do to break up these awful FastPass threads.

Let me see someone from Hopkin's come around. . .

GO HOUNDS.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Using the word "evidence" without any tangible proof to back it up looks silly.

What about the people who pulled FP's fully expecting to use them within the window and for whatever reason were delayed getting back to the attraction? Any amount of time here on the DIS will tell you that this scenario happens often. A reasonable person can deduce that out of the group of people who used FP's late, a considerable number of those had every intention of using their FP's on time when they got them. The change in FP policy would not have affected those folks, would it? The statement in bold is a shining example of a fallacy, as in "a failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid."

I acknowledge the people who did so in the matter you describe. But I also know a number of people pulled FPs with the sole intent to use them past their FP window at their convenience. Still the assertion rings true that the more people pulling FPs from a limited supply, the faster that supply runs out. And because many of those pulling FPs have the sole intent of using them late it creates a shortage of FPs for guest later.

 

[goofy4tink]

Its not a hard concept to follow. Only pull FPs if return times work. Its the way the system was designed from day 1 because the enforced return windows when the program was first introduced. AGAIN, i said nothing about line length.







It does matter because people keep claiming it was always disney policy when in fact only enforcement changed.

you seem to think that when the memo says it wasnt a change in policy that somehow that doesnt apply.

And your disjointed rant with misinformation about what is printed on FPs is clear? If you cant get it right on what it says on FPs at the current time, then what credibility do you have? seems a pretty simple matter to be right about

Definition of POLICY

1
a : prudence or wisdom in the management of affairs
b : management or procedure based primarily on material interest
2
a : a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions
b : a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body

Okay...having posted that...I think that 1b and 2a pretty much fit what we're discussing here. Disney 'policy' was to allow late returns using FP. It was written in the CM proceedure handbooks. It was given out as info by CMs. When you stopped at Guest Services to double check that info, you were again told that yes, you are allowed to use your FP at any time after the return window opens up, for the remainder of that day.
Did Disney change this policy? Yes, they did..on March 7.

And regarding 'pulling FPs only if the return time works'??? Again, Disney told us we were more than welcome to do this. So, we did. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here. We were either allowed to use our FPs later in the day, or we weren't. Disney said go ahead!! It's their company, it's their park, they get to make the rules. And set whatever policy they want. I seriously doubt that they really need you running around trying to 'enforce' what you think is the policy.

 

[Glennie5]

Where did I say FP lines were longer because of FP hoarders? Can you point that out? I said they made FPs be distributed at a higher rate.
Its not a hard concept to follow. Only pull FPs if return times work. Its the way the system was designed from day 1 because the enforced return windows when the program was first introduced. AGAIN, i said nothing about line length.
Doesnt mean it hasnt been an issue in some case just because you havent seen it. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
It does matter because people keep claiming it was always disney policy when in fact only enforcement changed.

you seem to think that when the memo says it wasnt a change in policy that somehow that doesnt apply.

your disjointed rant with misinformation about what is printed on FPs is clear? If you cant get it right on what it says on FPs at the current time, then what credibility do you have? seems a pretty simple matter to be right about

What really has your knickers in a knot - Is it because you didn't know that before March 7th that you could use your fast pass after the return time, maybe your upset because a cast memnber never shared with you that this could be done. I can tell you that after many visits of using my fastpasses after the return time I was never questioned - not even once, I wasn't asked to leave the park or arrested. It wasn't a hard and fast rule like you believe it was.

 

[t_catt11]

It does matter because people keep claiming it was always disney policy when in fact only enforcement changed.

you seem to think that when the memo says it wasnt a change in policy that somehow that doesnt apply.

Again, semantics. I can call it a policy, I can call it guest satisfaction, I can call it happy unicorn playtime... bottom line is, Disney allowed people to use fastpasses late, and trained CMs to do so. Disney no longer allows this, and trains CMs to not allow it. It's really a very simple concept, no matter how you label it.

I think I like the unicorn playtime, but nobody would know what I was talking about...

And your disjointed rant with misinformation about what is printed on FPs is clear? If you cant get it right on what it says on FPs at the current time, then what credibility do you have? seems a pretty simple matter to be right about

You got me. I made a mistake. I read an above poster's reference to "NOT FOR SALE" and misunderstood that to have replaced the non transferable. Sadly, I have not been to WDW since October.

As for credibility? I have maintained a WDW fansite for six years or so. I'm the guy people that people at work tell their family members about so that they can get trip advice, and they always come back and thank me for it.

I have 3300+ posts, a huge percentage of which are centered around helping newbies.

You have 200ish posts, which are largely narrow minded, argumentative, and often illogical.


Yeah, go ahead and ding me on credibility. Ouch.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Definition of POLICY

1
a : prudence or wisdom in the management of affairs
b : management or procedure based primarily on material interest
2
a : a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions
b : a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body

Okay...having posted that...I think that 1b and 2a pretty much fit what we're discussing here. Disney 'policy' was to allow late returns using FP. It was written in the CM proceedure handbooks. It was given out as info by CMs. When you stopped at Guest Services to double check that info, you were again told that yes, you are allowed to use your FP at any time after the return window opens up, for the remainder of that day.
Did Disney change this policy? Yes, they did..on March 7.

And regarding 'pulling FPs only if the return time works'??? Again, Disney told us we were more than welcome to do this. So, we did. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here. We were either allowed to use our FPs later in the day, or we weren't. Disney said go ahead!! It's their company, it's their park, they get to make the rules. And set whatever policy they want. I seriously doubt that they really need you running around trying to 'enforce' what you think is the policy.

Its all well and good but its not what I think policy is it is what Disney said it was in this memo:

Disney's FASTPASS service return time reminder
02/08/2012

In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their Disney's FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney's FASTPASS service plays an important role in our Guests' ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the Disney's FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their pass, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. All Cast Members are expected to adhere to this policy when visiting the parks as Guests.

AGAIN, Disney said that enforcement was not a change but a reminder of existing policy. Disney's words...not mine.

You fail to see this. Only enforcement changed and not policy. This is according to Disney...not me

 

[Wadecool]

As for credibility? I have maintained a WDW fansite for six years or so. I'm the guy people that people at work tell their family members about so that they can get trip advice, and they always come back and thank me for it.

I have 3300+ posts, a huge percentage of which are centered around helping newbies.

You have 200ish posts, which are largely narrow minded, argumentative, and often illogical.


Yeah, go ahead and ding me on credibility. Ouch.

Tcatt11, I am certain that your credibility is not the one taking the dings here.

 

[chuckml]

Tcatt11, I am certain that your credibility is not the one taking the dings here.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[t_catt11]

Dawww, how sweet of you. You're killing me.

 

[mattsdragon]

Definition of POLICY

1
a : prudence or wisdom in the management of affairs
b : management or procedure based primarily on material interest
2
a : a definite course or method of action selected from among alternatives and in light of given conditions to guide and determine present and future decisions
b : a high-level overall plan embracing the general goals and acceptable procedures especially of a governmental body

Okay...having posted that...I think that 1b and 2a pretty much fit what we're discussing here. Disney 'policy' was to allow late returns using FP. It was written in the CM proceedure handbooks. It was given out as info by CMs. When you stopped at Guest Services to double check that info, you were again told that yes, you are allowed to use your FP at any time after the return window opens up, for the remainder of that day.
Did Disney change this policy? Yes, they did..on March 7.

And regarding 'pulling FPs only if the return time works'??? Again, Disney told us we were more than welcome to do this. So, we did. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here. We were either allowed to use our FPs later in the day, or we weren't. Disney said go ahead!! It's their company, it's their park, they get to make the rules. And set whatever policy they want. I seriously doubt that they really need you running around trying to 'enforce' what you think is the policy.

See, you've drug me into the semantics argument.

Posting a definition is a quick way to losing an argument if you don't include any examples of the context of a words usage.

The official policy, the one that the guests received was what was on the ticket, the "unofficial" policy, the one that the CM's used, was on the oft-posted handout, but not put out for general release, so as to avoid just such an argument. The usage of official and un-official make your use of the definition pointless, because there is now context that needs to be taken into consideration.

For instance. . .the policy of law enforcement regarding speeding is what is posted on the speed limit signs.

Speed Limit 65. . .that is the official policy.
In order to avoid court time and paperwork hassle, most law enforcement organizations will give you a leeway (up to about 10 mph). It isn't official, but if you ask most cops, my wife included, they will tell you, that there is a difference between official policy, and enforced policy.

Another example. . .you buy a drink at your local convience store (7-11, Circle K, Lil Cricket. . .I don't care), the total comes to $2.01. The stores policy is you pay $2.01. That is what the register says, so you give the clerk 3, $1 dollar bills. The clerk gives you back one of the dollars. The store's unofficial policy is to eat that $.01.

Final example. . .no shirt, no shoes, NO DICE
Spicolli had to leave the eating establishment or put his shirt back on, because Brad was a DB.

Sorry, I just don't like when people post definintions because, like statistics, they can be made to say so much more than what they actually say.

I don't care if you used FP an hour late, a week late, or never. I don't have a dog in that hunt, but I am a stickler for semantics.

Now, can we please STOP WITH THE ASININE FASTPASS THREADS, THE ONLY POLICY NOW IS THAT THEY MUST BE USED DURING THE POSTED TIME, SO ANY OTHER ARGUMENT IS POINTLESS, AND, MUCH LIKE SIMBA'S CRACK ON THE HEAD FROM RAFIKI'S STICK, IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S IN THE PAST!!!!!