Selling Contract to Get a Better UY

[disneynutz]

All it takes is one mistake, one transfer that you forgot to make, keeping track of your points, your UY's. Been there done that and IMO spending the money, adjusting your contracts, keeping one UY for the next 30 years is well worth it.

Bill

 

[Kidanifan08]

I understand. But what do most people do? I'd say if you were booking several studios it would be easier to book an additional night using a different UY since it's such a small number of points, but if you were booking a GV it would be more difficult. It might leave too many points in one UY and take too many out of another. As far as transferring the points, what are the rules for that? I'm thinking it's one transfer per year and you can't transfer banked points. Am I correct? Are there any more rules? Can you transfer them at any time? I'd want to make sure to have the 11-month booking window.

The biggest problem with transferred points is that they do not appear in the contract they are transferred to. So, if you transfer them from contract B to contract A before making a reservation, you will need to call MS to use the points for a reservation with the transferred points from contract B. We have all AKV points with a small contract in an Aug UY and the rest in Dec UY. I generally use the Dec UY for scheduling online, then I call MS to transfer the Aug UY points and then re-allocate them to the reservation, which puts Dec UY points back into a visible state. But, if that reservation is cancelled, I still cannot see those points when they are returned to contract A.

Has not been a problem for us, so far, but you never know. Only once in 4 years have I used the Aug UY contract to make a reservation, and that was only for 1 night.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

The biggest problem with transferred points is that they do not appear in the contract they are transferred to. So, if you transfer them from contract B to contract A before making a reservation, you will need to call MS to use the points for a reservation with the transferred points from contract B. We have all AKV points with a small contract in an Aug UY and the rest in Dec UY. I generally use the Dec UY for scheduling online, then I call MS to transfer the Aug UY points and then re-allocate them to the reservation, which puts Dec UY points back into a visible state. But, if that reservation is cancelled, I still cannot see those points when they are returned to contract A.

Has not been a problem for us, so far, but you never know. Only once in 4 years have I used the Aug UY contract to make a reservation, and that was only for 1 night.

Ok, so let me get this straight. Let's say I want to make a reservation for 3 studios at HHI for October 2016. It will cost 210 points, but I have only 200 points by banking my 100 June 2015 UY points and using my current 100 June 2016 UY points. I call a week before my 11-month booking window to transfer 10 points from my April 2016 UY to my June 2016 UY. I will still not be able to go online at 11 months out to book the reservation? I understand the 10 points will keep the April UY, but that should not affect booking, should it? I really want to understand this before I make any kind of decision. Thanks for any clarification.

 

[Kidanifan08]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Let's say I want to make a reservation for 3 studios at HHI for October 2016. It will cost 210 points, but I have only 200 points by banking my 100 June 2015 UY points and using my current 100 June 2016 UY points. I call a week before my 11-month booking window to transfer 10 points from my April 2016 UY to my June 2016 UY. I will still not be able to go online at 11 months out to book the reservation? I understand the 10 points will keep the April UY, but that should not affect booking, should it? I really want to understand this before I make any kind of decision. Thanks for any clarification.

That's correct. You cannot see those transferred points. What you can do is book the first 5 of 7 days (or whatever length of stay), and then call MS later that day and add on the last two (of 7) days using your remaining primary contract points and the transferred points. So what I usually do is book as many nights as possible at 11 months and then call MS to do the points transfer and add on the rest of the nights to the reservations.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

That's correct. You cannot see those transferred points. What you can do is book the first 5 of 7 days (or whatever length of stay), and then call MS later that day and add on the last two (of 7) days using your remaining primary contract points and the transferred points. So what I usually do is book as many nights as possible at 11 months and then call MS to do the points transfer and add on the rest of the nights to the reservations.

Oops, forgot to say the reservation would be for 5 nights. Ok, so I could book 2 studios for all 5 nights and the 3rd studio for 4 nights. Then I would need to call MS to book that last night for the one studio. Is that right? But I would need to transfer the points a few days before or could I do it all in one call? This is crazy just because I am short 5 points on our contract!

 

[Dean]

Just got back from our HHI trip. It's the third time we have been in July and probably the last. It was miserably hot and just too much for us as we get older. We have been in October before and liked it. We plan on going back next year in October. We have also talked about wanting to go in April/May, but right now we are both teachers and that is impossible with our work schedules. When we retire in a few years, I think it would be a perfect time to go, but we would need a different UY. We have two HHI contracts with a June UY. I'm thinking an April UY would be better. This will allow us to travel April/May, early June with family due to school schedules, October, and possibly at Thanksgiving. We do not think we would ever travel there in December, January, February, or March. How much will I lose if I sell my contracts (purchased directly through Disney) and repurchase resale? I know I will lose since I purchased directly the first time around, but what I'm looking for is the present loss we will have. How much will we possibly be out right now? TIA!

It'd be the rare situation where the cost of selling and buying a new contract with a different UY were worthwhile. As long as you stay away from the banked/borrowed situation and don't have last minute cancelations, you'll be fine. Even if you were after the banking deadline, one could often rent the points or reservations. I also agree that for those who need more points, adding a second UY that's better is a great alternative.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

It'd be the rare situation where the cost of selling and buying a new contract with a different UY were worthwhile. As long as you stay away from the banked/borrowed situation and don't have last minute cancelations, you'll be fine. Even if you were after the banking deadline, one could often rent the points or reservations. I also agree that for those who need more points, adding a second UY that's better is a great alternative.

Thanks for the insight, Dean. I am starting to think it will be a bigger hassle to try to sell my contracts and repurchase.

I am thinking my current 100 June UY points will work for my family vacations in early June or October. Instead of transferring, I will bank 100, use current 100, and borrow 10 points for an every-other-year trip. Of course, I will gradually be borrowing more and more each year, but I will probably not run out until the contract expires, so not a big deal. Plus when you do every-other-year trips, I think it's better to bank AND borrow to fully use your points and not run the risk of losing any. Then I will purchase enough for my DH and I to go yearly in April/May. These will have an April UY and will be used only for our trips just the two of us. This just seems so much easier!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks for the insight, Dean. I am starting to think it will be a bigger hassle to try to sell my contracts and repurchase.

I am thinking my current 100 June UY points will work for my family vacations in early June or October. Instead of transferring, I will bank 100, use current 100, and borrow 10 points for an every-other-year trip. Of course, I will gradually be borrowing more and more each year, but I will probably not run out until the contract expires, so not a big deal. Plus when you do every-other-year trips, I think it's better to bank AND borrow to fully use your points and not run the risk of losing any. Then I will purchase enough for my DH and I to go yearly in April/May. These will have an April UY and will be used only for our trips just the two of us. This just seems so much easier!

I agree that what you are thinking here is the easiest way to work with 2 UY's. To go back to your question of how I do it when using points from both our UYs - I most often book full nights with both, so perhaps 5 with one and 1 or 2 with the other and then have MS link them for a continuing stay. I have transferred points 2 times to complete a reservation but have decided I prefer not to do that if it makes as much sense to just use both UYs.

 

[Dean]

I agree that what you are thinking here is the easiest way to work with 2 UY's. To go back to your question of how I do it when using points from both our UYs - I most often book full nights with both, so perhaps 5 with one and 1 or 2 with the other and then have MS link them for a continuing stay. I have transferred points 2 times to complete a reservation but have decided I prefer not to do that if it makes as much sense to just use both UYs.

This is my preference as well but the one component of linked reservations is that one has to check in again on the change day where it would be one continuous reservation if done from a single account.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

I agree that what you are thinking here is the easiest way to work with 2 UY's. To go back to your question of how I do it when using points from both our UYs - I most often book full nights with both, so perhaps 5 with one and 1 or 2 with the other and then have MS link them for a continuing stay. I have transferred points 2 times to complete a reservation but have decided I prefer not to do that if it makes as much sense to just use both UYs.

This is my preference as well but the one component of linked reservations is that one has to check in again on the change day where it would be one continuous reservation if done from a single account.

Thanks again for the advice. So which would be better? The process you have described in these quoted posts or the process I proposed in post #27?
ETA-KAT4DISNEY, I think you've already answered this question. It would be easier to keep the UYs separate and utilize banking and borrowing, correct?

 

[Kidanifan08]

Oops, forgot to say the reservation would be for 5 nights. Ok, so I could book 2 studios for all 5 nights and the 3rd studio for 4 nights. Then I would need to call MS to book that last night for the one studio. Is that right? But I would need to transfer the points a few days before or could I do it all in one call? This is crazy just because I am short 5 points on our contract!

When you call MS to book the 5th night for your 3rd studio, they can do the transfer first and then add that day during the same call. My Aug UY is only 50 points, and we usually are booking 1 or 2 BR units, so it would be hard to do it the way Dean and KAT describe without regularly needing to transfer a small number of points annually to use them all up. So, I just move them all at once and get it over with. Plus, there is technically only one transfer in or out per year, so I just do them all at once and don't need to worry about the possibility of needing to transfer a small amount that remains a second time and being told "no".

We currently travel to WDW at least once a year, so I have not gotten into the baking/borrowing issues of having two UY. If I owned a second resort with a different UY, I would most likely keep those points separate from our AKV points and use them as two separate memberships, rarely co-mingling the points at the 7-month mark.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks again for the advice. So which would be better? The process you have described in these quoted posts or the process I proposed in post #27?
ETA-KAT4DISNEY, I think you've already answered this question. It would be easier to keep the UYs separate and utilize banking and borrowing, correct?

Correct. Easiest is using banking and borrowing. That gives you a single reservation and then you don't have to deal with checking in and out again. That's not the end of the world but adds a step where something could get messed up and take time to fix.

 

[Dean]

Thanks again for the advice. So which would be better? The process you have described in these quoted posts or the process I proposed in post #27?
ETA-KAT4DISNEY, I think you've already answered this question. It would be easier to keep the UYs separate and utilize banking and borrowing, correct?

Assuming two use years, I see banking/borrowing to have one reservation and making separate reservations and linking them as about equal overall. It'll be slightly easier to reserve if you bank and borrow and do a given villa from one master contract but you'll have the risk of the banked/borrowed points if you have to change or cancel. Using two contracts for a single reservation and linking will be a little safer but you'll have to check in again midstay. But since you're looking at multiple villas at one time you can reserve an entire villa from each contract, minimize the extra work and the risks of both mid stay checkin and banked/borrowed points.

Given the smaller contract, I MIGHT change my recommendation to buying a single larger contract and selling the smaller one. IF one were going to do this I'd only do so in the following way. Look for the perfect larger contract that's loaded and a good price, buy it for cash and then sell the 100 pt contract at a higher price. To me one would need to be able to float both contracts for cash to make it reasonable to do so. That's esp true if one were thinking of a second smaller contract of under 150-170. So owning a smaller contract and having a poor UY, it very well might be better to sell and rebuy if one is upgrading contract size enough to take advantage of the inherent price differences there. To use round numbers, selling a 100 pt contract at $60 a point and paying commissions will net roughly $5400. Buying a second 100 pt contract at $60 will cost maybe $6500. Buying a 200 pt contract at roughly $50 will cost $10500 minus the $5400 to end up at an additional $5100. I'd ignore dues for the comparison because they should end up canceling out if all else were equal.

Go stay there first during this time before you commit. You might also consider trying a different resort option at the same time to make sure you have the most info possible. Lastly, anything other than prime summer isn't too difficult for HH so a non HH DVC option might give you different options.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

Assuming two use years, I see banking/borrowing to have one reservation and making separate reservations and linking them as about equal overall. It'll be slightly easier to reserve if you bank and borrow and do a given villa from one master contract but you'll have the risk of the banked/borrowed points if you have to change or cancel. Using two contracts for a single reservation and linking will be a little safer but you'll have to check in again midstay. But since you're looking at multiple villas at one time you can reserve an entire villa from each contract, minimize the extra work and the risks of both mid stay checkin and banked/borrowed points.

Given the smaller contract, I MIGHT change my recommendation to buying a single larger contract and selling the smaller one. IF one were going to do this I'd only do so in the following way. Look for the perfect larger contract that's loaded and a good price, buy it for cash and then sell the 100 pt contract at a higher price. To me one would need to be able to float both contracts for cash to make it reasonable to do so. That's esp true if one were thinking of a second smaller contract of under 150-170. So owning a smaller contract and having a poor UY, it very well might be better to sell and rebuy if one is upgrading contract size enough to take advantage of the inherent price differences there. To use round numbers, selling a 100 pt contract at $60 a point and paying commissions will net roughly $5400. Buying a second 100 pt contract at $60 will cost maybe $6500. Buying a 200 pt contract at roughly $50 will cost $10500 minus the $5400 to end up at an additional $5100. I'd ignore dues for the comparison because they should end up canceling out if all else were equal.

Go stay there first during this time before you commit. You might also consider trying a different resort option at the same time to make sure you have the most info possible. Lastly, anything other than prime summer isn't too difficult for HH so a non HH DVC option might give you different options.

I should have made it more clear. I actually have two 50-point contracts. I know those usually go for more. I'm worried though because we always have reservations at any given time so I think that would make selling much more difficult to maneuver. I would also be very scared to buy one large contract. I would need 300 points for what I want to do. Ideally, I would want three 100-point contracts or even smaller ones than that. That would make it more expensive to do though. And I'm not sure we could buy a large contract with cash in the first place. I would definitely want HHI points though to get the 11-month advantage. I realize that we need to stay there during that time before deciding, and we definitely will. Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Dean]

I should have made it more clear. I actually have two 50-point contracts. I know those usually go for more. I'm worried though because we always have reservations at any given time so I think that would make selling much more difficult to maneuver. I would also be very scared to buy one large contract. I would need 300 points for what I want to do. Ideally, I would want three 100-point contracts or even smaller ones than that. That would make it more expensive to do though. And I'm not sure we could buy a large contract with cash in the first place. I would definitely want HHI points though to get the 11-month advantage. I realize that we need to stay there during that time before deciding, and we definitely will. Thanks for all your advice.

Two 50's or one 100 would not change anything. One thought is that you buy say 220-250 rather than 300, basically the best and most loaded contract you can find in that general size. Then sell the other contract after that next trip that's already reserved, you'll have the same points or even more compared to one 300. Even on a loaded 200 pt contract you'd have the equivalent of an extra 4-500 points to start out with and with banking that'd feel like 300 total for a number of years. I see no reason to have three 100 pt contracts, there really is no justification for buying that way all at the same resort if one has to pay the extra, the only way it makes sense is if they're under one master and it can be done at the cheaper price. One shouldn't buy anything they plan to sell later and the extra cost just to have exit insurance is both far too expensive for that purpose and there is no guarantee that smaller contacts will be advantageous down the line. They might very well be an albatross in 10 yrs. If the total cash is an issue, buy one normal sized contract in the right UY say 150-200 then sell the two 50's once you clear any pending reservations then buy the rest after that if you still feel the same. While I'm not opposed to multiple UY, I'm negative to multiple UY with smaller contracts even though I myself am in that situation (by default) currently with 100 & 333.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

Two 50's or one 100 would not change anything. One thought is that you buy say 220-250 rather than 300, basically the best and most loaded contract you can find in that general size. Then sell the other contract after that next trip that's already reserved, you'll have the same points or even more compared to one 300. Even on a loaded 200 pt contract you'd have the equivalent of an extra 4-500 points to start out with and with banking that'd feel like 300 total for a number of years. I see no reason to have three 100 pt contracts, there really is no justification for buying that way all at the same resort if one has to pay the extra, the only way it makes sense is if they're under one master and it can be done at the cheaper price. One shouldn't buy anything they plan to sell later and the extra cost just to have exit insurance is both far too expensive for that purpose and there is no guarantee that smaller contacts will be advantageous down the line. They might very well be an albatross in 10 yrs. If the total cash is an issue, buy one normal sized contract in the right UY say 150-200 then sell the two 50's once you clear any pending reservations then buy the rest after that if you still feel the same. While I'm not opposed to multiple UY, I'm negative to multiple UY with smaller contracts even though I myself am in that situation (by default) currently with 100 & 333.

You know, I never even thought about the fact that I would have to pay closing costs on every contract I bought. That's because I originally bought through Disney and did not have to pay closing costs. So I guess it makes sense to buy only one contract with the amount of points I needed. I also never thought about buying fewer points than needed but one that was loaded so I could bank extra points. That is super smart! Great idea about buying a smaller contract first, then adding on; of course, that would cost more in closing costs, but definitely better than financing, which I would not do anyway. Thanks for all the great ideas! I am learning so much!

 

[Dean]

You know, I never even thought about the fact that I would have to pay closing costs on every contract I bought. That's because I originally bought through Disney and did not have to pay closing costs. So I guess it makes sense to buy only one contract with the amount of points I needed. I also never thought about buying fewer points than needed but one that was loaded so I could bank extra points. That is super smart! Great idea about buying a smaller contract first, then adding on; of course, that would cost more in closing costs, but definitely better than financing, which I would not do anyway. Thanks for all the great ideas! I am learning so much!

There are a number of variations, you must find the one that's right for you. Sounds like we've given you some things to think about, always a good thing. three 100 pt contracts would cost you roughly $4000 more than one 300 pt contract. Of course one doesn't want to get too big but for your situation and to get in the 300 pt range, I wouldn't go out of my way to do the smaller contracts. The one reason to do so would be funds, I do think it's worth buying one roughly 200 pt contract and one roughly 100 pt contract if that's what it takes to pay cash. If I were going to do that, I'd just do the one first then wait and see if the other were truly needed. Even better for many, and another valid option to have a smaller contract, would be to have more than one home resort. I wouldn't begin to require multiple contracts based on total points alone until all of the contracts were normal stand alone size, really in the 200 point range, 400 pts total for 2 contracts. You see some suggest doing multiple smaller contracts and if all else were equal, I'd agree, but all else isn't equal, namely it's very expensive insurance with no guarantees it'd do what one thought it would any way.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

One more quick question for all you experts:
If I kept my two 50-point contracts and using banking and borrowing reserved 3 studios at HHI in October for 5 nights and then used an April UY contract to book one studio for an extra week for my DH and I, could I link the reservations so that we would not have to move rooms? I'm thinking I can based on what KAT4DISNEY stated in an earlier post, but wanted to make sure I was understanding it correctly. Thanks!

 

[Dean]

One more quick question for all you experts:
If I kept my two 50-point contracts and using banking and borrowing reserved 3 studios at HHI in October for 5 nights and then used an April UY contract to book one studio for an extra week for my DH and I, could I link the reservations so that we would not have to move rooms? I'm thinking I can based on what KAT4DISNEY stated in an earlier post, but wanted to make sure I was understanding it correctly. Thanks!

You could, you'd have to check in again on the change day. Even better if you had the points would be to book the 2 weeks from the one account and the longer stay from the other account. It keeps you from having quite so many banked/borrowed points at risk, avoids the linking question and allows you to make the one reservation at 11 months out without having to wait until the 11 month window open for the second portion.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

You could, you'd have to check in again on the change day. Even better if you had the points would be to book the 2 weeks from the one account and the longer stay from the other account. It keeps you from having quite so many banked/borrowed points at risk, avoids the linking question and allows you to make the one reservation at 11 months out without having to wait until the 11 month window open for the second portion.

I see what you are saying. The problem is I will have to do banking and a little borrowing anyway because I will be doing the 3 studios only every other year. If I keep my two 50-point contracts, banking will give me 200, but two studios would cost only 140 points. Then if I bank the 60, I wouldn't be going back the next year to use them (except for in May which I don't want to use the June UY pts for that trip). I'm totally used to banking points as that is all we do now. If we have to cancel, we will use them before they expire or rent the reservation. I'm really thinking I don't want to go through the hassle of selling if this will work. Is my thinking off? This is assuming two 50-pt. June UY contracts and one 160-pt. April UY contract.

Year 1: May trip solo-186 pts (use 26 banked/160 current April UY points)

Year 2: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 100 banked/100 current/10 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 116 of current April UY points, bank 44)

Year 3: May trip solo-186 pts (use 44 banked/142 current April UY points, bank 18)

Year 4: early June or October trip with family-268 pts: 3 studios for 5 nights (use 90 banked/100 current/20 borrowed June UY points) + 1 studio for 7 additional nights (use 18 banked/98 current April UY points, bank 62)

and so on....
Basically, I would be using my June UY points for the family portion of the trips and saving my April UY points for our solo trips (including one that would be stuck on the end of the family trip). It just seems to me to be easier to tack on a solo trip to a family trip than to drive 9 hours home and back again at another time. I realize that I would have to check out and back in again, but would I have to move rooms?

All of your reasons for having one contract do make sense, and I may end up selling and repurchasing, but right now, this makes sense to me. I just hope that it is right. Please let me know if anything about this would not work at all.