Self Extenders

[tjkraz]

Well, I am not sure that Florida laws for "public lodging establishments" would also apply to private timeshare (or DVC) owners.

Who said any of the people involved here were DVC members? Could go either way.

Assuming it does, perhaps a special assessment should be enacted and held in escrow from all DVC owners from which late departure fees could be withdrawn when owners (or their renters) do not leave (or return to the room) by checkout time.

Not gonna happen.

I would say it is probably also against the law for someone to return to a room which should have been checked out of and use the room and amenities after it has been assigned to someone else. All the stories in this thread of people who had strangers walk into their rooms, or returned and used the room after it was cleaned are just horrendous. Illegal entry, trespassing, invasion of privacy are just a few laws that come to mind....

And the fault clearly lies with Disney for letting that happen. They should never let an arriving guest into a room that still contains another's belongings, nor should they allow multiple parties to hold valid keys to the same unit.

Sometime after 11am, housekeeping should get into the room. It should not be released to a new guest until housekeeping has departed. At that time the lock should be reset so that the departing guest no longer has access.

I am trying to understand why any DVC owner would be encouraging folks to retain occupancy after checkout date/time or why they would encourage anyone to feel it is ok to go back into your room after checkout date/time has passed? Finding loopholes to allow them to stay later is not the intent of the law...

Who made statements to that effect?

My position is merely that automatically locking people out of rooms is unnecessary, ill-conceived and apparently illegal. If housekeeping discovers someone in a room after 11am, management should be immediately notified so that they can deal with the situation in the proper manner. If the guest indicates a desire to pay and remain an additional night, that is within their rights. If they don't plan to stay another night, the hotel can have them removed. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Debbie H]

Okay, I can't take it. I must respond. I'm new to these boards, and must admit that I am shocked by some of the posts.Theft at SSR, rude members and now "self extenders". I guess I've been living in Fantsyland since 93 when we joined.Kind of depressing.I hope that these situations are by far the minority or somewhat exaggerated.That being said, the obvious solution to all of this is quite simple to me. What you don't confront or deal with ,Disney, you promote or indicate by lack of action, that it is okay.I know, I know, you thinking that's obvious Einstien, but think about it. My interpertation is that those members who yell and scream the most get what they want. Disney might be rewarding negative behavior.Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, "THEY ARE DVC MEMBERS" that makes it okay. When they are not dealt with in an appropriate way, they will only reinforce the behavior.Example, members self extend stay to 3 PM. CMs try to tell them to leave, but they are at the parks. They come home and share with other DVC members their trip, and that they checked out late the last day after taking a shower at 2 PM.They are asked "What happened?" They respond, "Nothing, WE ARE DVC MEMBERS, they can wait til my sorry a** leaves".Those members might say, next time I'm not rushing to leave the room.And so on, and so son. Now, if they heard their fellow neighbor and DVC member scream the day they opened ther credit card statement and saw a $300 late checkout fee, they might respond, "I'm glad we check out on time.DVC needs to hold itself and members accountable for their behavior.DVC is half the problem for not dealing with it.
I'm sorry,I'm ranting. Maybe I need to stay away from the boards.

That would be funny. DVC needs to come up with something, for DVC members and renters who over stay their welcome. I've seen the ones who scream the loudest and they do usually get what they want. I'm glad too that we check out on time.

I've often thought about staying away from the boards or just reading and not commenting. It is suppose to be for idea sharing and for information. I see nothing wrong with people sharing their stories and frustrations. Some posters take their own thoughts to extremes and then others are the "know it all" posters. Some always want or need to get the last word in. You find out quickly who is who. Please don't stay away, you were not ranting.

 

[LarryKeith]

OK I know this is a serious problem, we are always out on time. But I would say that I didn't mind our room being late at Vero.
Arrived at 10:30 am'ish. Checked in and was told not ready. 4 hours later not ready. Checked back at 4pm. Not ready, MS called housekeeping and all she said was that she didn't like what they told her and that it would be at least 45minutes. THEN THE MAGIC HAPPENED. The next thing she said was my family and I could go to the Green Room ( there bar )and have as many appetizers and non- alcoholic drinks we wanted. With a smile we proceded to try almost every Specialty drink they had and a meals worth of appitizers on the veranda watching the waves and lovin it. At around 5pm the hostess gave me a note with our room # and said to just walk the bill down to desk and it would be taken care of, also asked if we would like some more refills. She got a very nice cash tip.
We had requested OVIN room as high as possible. We got OVIN room top floor center for the week. Directly above the lobby entrance from the beach side. Absolute best room location. Every picture of the resort I see I can see our room. Makes me smile everytime.

So if the room isn't ready, or there running late, let it be me it happens to. Disney will make it right, in one way or another they always do.

I have always heard that 10% of the people are 90% of the problem. And I always said we all take turns being that 10%. So that person thats causing you a problem will someday be you causing it to someone else, it just not your day to be the 10%.
Maybe I missed it but I didn't read 1 post that ended where they had to sleep in the lobby.

 

[Debbie H]

So if the room isn't ready, or there running late, let it be me it happens to. Disney will make it right, in one way or another they always do.

I'm glad they made it right for you. They did not for us.

 

[jdkdorn]

We are going to WDW and DCL October 18-28 and due to the fact that our flight home does not leave until 7:50 pm I decided to "waste" some points. I know the kids will want to play in the pool and my son and parents may need naps so I decided to use our points for the extra day. We are booked through Monday bit will actually leave on Sunday evening. I would never find it acceptable to stay later than check-out time. After sitting in the airport last time for hours we decided that this was the best solution. The only problem is that we are being charged for that day on our Dining plan too, I wish you could drop the first and last day off the dining plan.

So whomever gets our room the next day will be in early because we will already be home, boo hoo!

Judy

 

[dianeschlicht]

This thread reminds me of the "bad members list" we heard about a few years back. I'm quite sure cast members can "see" on the computer screens if someone is a habitual "trouble maker" or likes to "bend the rules". I do know that one time we booked a studio for the first night and a 2 bedroom for the following week. About 2 months out, we learned a 5th person was coming, so I called MS and asked if we would be able to keep the studio, and I was informed that we would need at least a 1 bedroom. That resulted in me changing the ressie for that night from a studio to a 1 bedroom, but when I checked in, the snotty CM checking me in said "I see you tried to get 5 in a studio". I informed him that "no, I merely asked if it was allowed for that one night since we would be moving to a 2 bedroom the next day". I think those things ARE noted on the ressies so they can and maybe do flag habitual rule breakers. I still get a little peeved that he made that snide comment, because I did indeed change my ressie for that night when I was told "no".

 

[CarolAnnC]

Since this discussion board is "DVC" we need to keep this on topic. Let's stick to discussing how this impacts DVC members.

If DVC currently does not "turn off" room keys because it is illegal, how is it possible to issue keys to new arrivals without knowing when the previous occupants may decide to checkout? How will the front desk actually know when the previous occupants have vacated? Apparently there are folks who just stay later or return later. Can't blame the front desk for not being clairvoyant. You can't have it both ways. As a previous poster stated, perhaps these room keys are working even days later after checkout time.

Who said any of the people involved here were DVC members? Could go either way.



Not gonna happen.



And the fault clearly lies with Disney for letting that happen. They should never let an arriving guest into a room that still contains another's belongings, nor should they allow multiple parties to hold valid keys to the same unit.

Sometime after 11am, housekeeping should get into the room. It should not be released to a new guest until housekeeping has departed. At that time the lock should be reset so that the departing guest no longer has access.



Who made statements to that effect?

My position is merely that automatically locking people out of rooms is unnecessary, ill-conceived and apparently illegal. If housekeeping discovers someone in a room after 11am, management should be immediately notified so that they can deal with the situation in the proper manner. If the guest indicates a desire to pay and remain an additional night, that is within their rights. If they don't plan to stay another night, the hotel can have them removed. This isn't rocket science.

 

[tjkraz]

If DVC currently does not "turn off" room keys because it is illegal, how is it possible to issue keys to new arrivals without knowing when the previous occupants may decide to checkout? How will the front desk actually know when the previous occupants have vacated? Apparently there are folks who just stay later or return later. Can't blame the front desk for not being clairvoyant. You can't have it both ways.

They don't need to be clairvoyant. The system is already in place and it's been working for years.

1. Housekeeping arrives at the room sometime after 11am.

2a. If a guest is discovered in the room, the front desk is notified so that a manager can interevene.

2b. If no guest, the room is cleaned.

3. After cleaning, the room is "released" by housekeeping.

4. The inbound guest's key is activated and the outbound guest's card is deactivated.

If anything is going wrong in the process it's probably one of two things:

In #2a above, either management is not being informed of late guests in a timely manner or they are not taking action promptly.

Or, in #4 above the outbound guest's key is not being turned-off properly.

I would MUCH rather see Disney fix the problem rather than needlessly changing processes. Illegalities aside, automatically locking doors will occasionally inconvenience departing guests and waste the time of front desk CMs (who I hope we agree would be much better served using their time checking-in guests than resetting key cards). Auto locking doors would also have zero impact on a guest who simply decides to spend the afternoon watching TV in the room.

As a previous poster stated, perhaps these room keys are working even days later after checkout time.

Then I don't see why it's even realistic to suggest locking out guests at 11am. If Disney can't do something as simple as lock-out one party after the room has been assigned to a new party, I can't see these auto-lockouts being within their capabilities.

 

[Simba's Mom]

They don't need to be clairvoyant. The system is already in place and it's been working for years.

1. Housekeeping arrives at the room sometime after 11am.

2a. If a guest is discovered in the room, the front desk is notified so that a manager can interevene.

2b. If no guest, the room is cleaned.

3. After cleaning, the room is "released" by housekeeping.

4. The inbound guest's key is activated and the outbound guest's card is deactivated.

Nah, that sounds too straightforward, not complicated enough!

 

[CarolAnnC]

The problem with your scenario is that #4 is not happening. People are leaving, then returning to take a shower etc after park hopping. Their belongings are gone (probably stashed in a vehicle) when housekeeping cleans, but apparently they return for a shower before departing. So the new folks enter their room and find the old folks have recently been in it again.

Er um, I don't think the system is already in place and has been working for years. If it was working we would not have the previous 11 pages with issues in this thread, LOL!!

They don't need to be clairvoyant. The system is already in place and it's been working for years.

1. Housekeeping arrives at the room sometime after 11am.

2a. If a guest is discovered in the room, the front desk is notified so that a manager can interevene.

2b. If no guest, the room is cleaned.

3. After cleaning, the room is "released" by housekeeping.

4. The inbound guest's key is activated and the outbound guest's card is deactivated.

If anything is going wrong in the process it's probably one of two things:

In #2a above, either management is not being informed of late guests in a timely manner or they are not taking action promptly.

Or, in #4 above the outbound guest's key is not being turned-off properly.

I would MUCH rather see Disney fix the problem rather than needlessly changing processes. Illegalities aside, automatically locking doors will occasionally inconvenience departing guests and waste the time of front desk CMs (who I hope we agree would be much better served using their time checking-in guests than resetting key cards). Auto locking doors would also have zero impact on a guest who simply decides to spend the afternoon watching TV in the room.



Then I don't see why it's even realistic to suggest locking out guests at 11am. If Disney can't do something as simple as lock-out one party after the room has been assigned to a new party, I can't see these auto-lockouts being within their capabilities.

 

[tjkraz]

The problem with your scenario is that #4 is not happening. People are leaving, then returning to take a shower etc after park hopping. Their belongings are gone (probably stashed in a vehicle) when housekeeping cleans, but apparently they return for a shower before departing. So the new folks enter their room and find the old folks have recently been in it again.

In all of the situations I read (including the original post, Deb & Bill's post and tomandrobin's post) the resort knew exactly what was going on. The situation described above is NOT what occurred in these instances. I'm sure that such things HAVE happened, but we're making a HUGE leap in judgement to conclude that it's a frequent occurrence.

To take this small sample of situations which slipped thru the system and conclude that we need to re-write the rules is (in my opinion) ludicrous. Locking people out at 11am would create more problems than it would solve. And, unless anyone knows otherwise, it appears to be illegal.


I'm all for cash (or points) penalties. In fact, I suspect the documents we sign upon check-in give the resort full authority to charge guests for another night's stay if they don't vacate by the posted time. I have no problem with all of the violators in this thread being penalized for staying after 11am. But I still think it's unnecessary to penalize (financially or via inconvenience) people who were running a few minutes behind because a restaurant seated them late for breakfast, a theme park bus took 40 minutes to arrive, they got 15 minutes from the resort and realized something had been left behind, the door automatically locked at 11:01 while carrying bags to the car, and so on.

Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I think there are a lot more well-meaning people who simply mis-judge travel time at Walt Disney World and end up running a little late than there are people who maliciously choose to abuse the system at the expense of other guests.

 

[KevGuy]

Don't other hotels with electronic locks shut off the access cards of outgoing people at the appointed time of check out on checkout day if they haven't already arranged to extend their stay availability permitting?? Sure there would be situations where someone would be inconvienenced and some running a few minutes late. But I also think making it public knowledge that they will stop working at a certain time would make people be more attentive to the checkout time because they know they will have issues past that time if they are not out of the room. ie:coming back from a breakfast or a park late for whatever reason on checkout day. They would know they need to stop at the front desk because their card won't work now as it is after 11. It may be an issue initially and cause some slight stress on the staff after the change but I believe people would catch on quite quickly. Most people, myself included, are ready to go well before check out I believe, it is only the few that it would effect. I think the real problem is the so called "self extenders" who think they can just stay in a room past checkout without getting it squared away with reservations or the front desk first. Certainly there are emergency situations that come up and are the exception, and should be handled accordingly, but they are also not the norm IMO. I don't think disabling room keys at checkout time would be that harmful or stressing to staff, I mean what the heck do other hotels do? Let people do as they please to the detriment of others just getting there and checking in? The line has to be drawn at some point doesn't it for a stay to end? If I want to stay longer I'm pretty sure I know that I want to extend my trip the day before checkout at a minimum and don't decide the morning of checkout provided all else is fine. So as such I would inquire and do what is needed the day before to extend it, and if not because there is no availability, then thank them for trying to help me and prepare to leave. Pretty hard to change flight plans at the last minute without significant cost too. How many people do you think fly to Disney versus drive or other means to Disney. I doubt people that fly there would be "self extending" their trip the morning of their checkout short of an emergency.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I totally agree that DVC can and SHOULD charge "self extenders", but I'm a little confused about why some of you think blocking the keys at 11 is a "bad" thing. If you are supposed to be out by 11, why should your key work after that?

 

[loribell]

I haven't read past page one of this thread but felt like I should respond too. We just returned from 17 wonderful days in Orlando, all but 2 of them at SSR. We changed rooms three times (stay at Universal, family joining us, etc). We were very fortunate getting our rooms, twice rome was ready when I checked in before 8 (Saturdays), last time it was ready at 11(Friday).

But, EVERY day we saw many families loading up their cars and vacating their rooms well after 11. Many times we saw people loading their cars at 1 or 2. It really seems to be getting out of hand. I'm not really sure what we can do but something needs to be done. It is totally unfair to those families that are waiting for their room to become available.

 

[AKV707]

I agree with disabling the keys at check out time. In an emergency, such as someone feeling ill, arrangements can be mde with the front desk well in advance of check out time.

We always take a late afternoon flight to get more of the magic. We still check out on time and leave our bags with bell services. Then we go to a park and have fun! It always works for us.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I haven't read past page one of this thread but felt like I should respond too. We just returned from 17 wonderful days in Orlando, all but 2 of them at SSR. We changed rooms three times (stay at Universal, family joining us, etc). We were very fortunate getting our rooms, twice rome was ready when I checked in before 8 (Saturdays), last time it was ready at 11(Friday).

But, EVERY day we saw many families loading up their cars and vacating their rooms well after 11. Many times we saw people loading their cars at 1 or 2. It really seems to be getting out of hand. I'm not really sure what we can do but something needs to be done. It is totally unfair to those families that are waiting for their room to become available.

We've been pretty fortunate in that the vast majority of times, our room was available upon check-in. The exception which comes immediately to mind is that we haven't ever been able to check-in much before 4:00 at VWL.

Our rooms were available right away at OKW, BWV, BCV and VB and we usually always arrive Sunday between 10:00 AM - 1:00 PM and consisted of Studios, and 1 & 2 Bedrooms.

We didn't arrive at SSR until close to 6:00 PM the one time we arrived on a Friday night, but our room was available right away.

Since we drive, we are usually gone by 6:00-7:00 in the morning.

However, as loribell posted, we've also noticed that there has always been at least a handful of groups leaving their rooms with luggage when we've arrived as late as 1:00 PM.

 

[Snookies]

...If housekeeping discovers someone in a room after 11am, management should be immediately notified so that they can deal with the situation in the proper manner. If the guest indicates a desire to pay and remain an additional night, that is within their rights. If they don't plan to stay another night, the hotel can have them removed. This isn't rocket science.

Wow, this thread has really grown. I think simpler is better when discussing procedures and/or policies. Housekeeping is the key (pardon the pun). Most of us are aware that housekeeping notifies that a room has been cleaned and has been released for occupancy. When a room is released, previous keys should be disabled. This seems to be what you're suggesting in this thread and I agree. I also agree that if housekeeping finds that a room is still occupied, management should be notified and then the appropriate steps need to be followed from management's perspective. Upon further review, I also second the idea that any penalities should be cash penalities because paying with points might be problematic in rental situations.

 

[Disneyhappy]

I haven't read past page one of this thread but felt like I should respond too. We just returned from 17 wonderful days in Orlando, all but 2 of them at SSR. We changed rooms three times (stay at Universal, family joining us, etc). We were very fortunate getting our rooms, twice rome was ready when I checked in before 8 (Saturdays), last time it was ready at 11(Friday).

But, EVERY day we saw many families loading up their cars and vacating their rooms well after 11. Many times we saw people loading their cars at 1 or 2. It really seems to be getting out of hand. I'm not really sure what we can do but something needs to be done. It is totally unfair to those families that are waiting for their room to become available.

We also noticed quite a number of guests at BCV checking out after 11 AM two weeks ago. One day we were coming back from the parks around 2 PM and road an elevator with bell services who was picking up luggage from a villa on our floor. I do not know if the quests were DVC members, used points, paid cash or did not like their room and were switching. Also, we road down an elevator with a mousekeeping CM around 5 PM one afternoon and I mentioned that it was a late day for her. She replied that they are supposed to be done by 4 PM but only about 1 day a week does she actually get off at 4 PM. Based on posts in this thread, I think this is may very well be a growing problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Snookies]

We also noticed quite a number of guests at BCV checking out after 11 AM two weeks ago. One day we were coming back from the parks around 2 PM and road an elevator with bell services who was picking up luggage from a villa on our floor. I do not know if the quests were DVC members, used points, paid cash or did not like their room and were switching. Also, we road down an elevator with a mousekeeping CM around 5 PM one afternoon and I mentioned that it was a late day for her. She replied that they are supposed to be done by 4 PM but only about 1 day a week does she actually get off at 4 PM. Based on posts in this thread, I think this is may very well be a growing problem that needs to be addressed.

And...it may also be partially related to some of the issues that some have reported with housekeeping, as well as the time their units have been ready. I wish I could tell you that I thought a friendly reminder in Vacation Magic would effectively address this problem if it is truly growing into a problem that needs to be addressed. However, I think the more effective remedy is to synthesize a number of the ideas that have been posted on this thread...

1) When housekeeping enters, if it is obvious that previous occupants have not vacated, managers need to be notified. They could then attempt to contact the parties with information about extending their stay. If they cannot be contacted in a timely manner or if they can and refuse to vacate in a timely manner, a charge for an additional day at full rack rate should be assessed. If the occupants cannot be contacted or do not return within a reasonable amount of time (I suspect there are widely divergent opinions about what is reasonable), the occupants should not only be assessed a charge for an additional day, they should also be evicted. The notification apparently required by Florida law should be provided at check-in when check-out dates can be verified. There should be no exceptions to the assessment of the late fee because it is predictable that one will hear the standard litany of excuses: we were seated late at breakfast; 5 busses went by before ours came; we couldn't find our stroller or our wallet or our purse, etc... I sympathize with each and every one of these because we've been there and done that, but the only effective penalty will be one without exceptions. If someone is assessed the rack rate for a 2-bedroom unit at BCV, including tax, because they decided to shower after one last dip at Stormalong Bay, the word would probably get out quickly and others may stop and think twice before deciding to take a $900 shower.

2) If it appears that the unit has been vacated when housekeeping enters and finishes, keys for previous occupants should be invalidated when housekeeping declares a unit ready for occupancy. The only problem here is that this would require communication on a unit-by-unit basis and that may be inefficient and/or unwieldy from a cost control standpoint.

Some of you may remember that we've already seen the friendly reminders in Vacation Magic, but only management knows if this is a growing problem. The anecdotal reports here suggest it may be. Addressing it would have the double benefit of facilitating occupancy by the next party, as well as perhaps leading to happier housekeepers and better housekeeping.

 

[Disneyhappy]

Just one other thought on this as there is reference in posts to guests getting back late from breakfast or a park for whatever reason -delayed ADR or bus issues. I guess I never thought about making plans on the morning of my check-out that could possibly cause me to be late. I look at the check out time the same way I do as a flight time. I try to plan for any and all things that might cause a delay for me getting to the airport and therefore, allow extra time. I have visited a park on my day of check out but we were packed and out of the room before we went to the park. Any breakfast ADRs we make do not require the use of undependable busses. We make the ADR with plenty of time for a potential delayed seating and plan it either in the hotel area where we are staying or we drive. Also, we are basically all packed before we head to the ADR. I suppose we just think differently than some other families do. In all of my travels of staying in hotels at least 45 days a year for business and pleasure, neither I nor my family has ever stayed beyond the check out time with one exception. My DS was ill in San Fran and we asked for a late check out of 2 hours to allow DS a place to lay down until we headed to the airport for our flight. In that scenario, we volunteered to pay for the time when we asked for a late check-out. They graciously allowed us to stay without a charge. (With my hotel rewards card, I am allowed late check-out with permission of the hotel which was a benefit I had forgotten about.) I know the option for late check out is out there but I only viewed it to be used in extreme cases. I amy be in the minority on my thinking.