Self Extenders

[tjkraz]

I agree with this. However, when is enough enough? What if everyone decided to self extend? Or what happens if they decide to stay a few more days? Nothing happens? Gee, maybe more of us should try it and see what happens!

Well, they aren't free stay extensions. The key to what I posted is that management is obligated to first contact the guest and request payment. If payment is made (no-doubt at the Rack Rates posted on the card on the back of the room's entry door), the resort apparently cannot evict. But if the guest refuses to pay, obviously Disney can take action.

DVC has been around for 15+ years and Disney has been running resort hotels for much longer than that. I'm sure this happens from time-to-time, but you just don't run into situations where people decide to arbitrarily extend their stays in great numbers. The one exception I can think of was during the hurricanes a few years back, and Disney did what they could to accommodate as many guests as possible.

Even in the report that started this post, OP wasn't turned-away by the front desk. She did get a room--it just wasn't the room the resort had originally earmarked for her.

Housekeeping is a mess, everyone knows that. When you ask for a kitchen towels and get bath mats, there is a problem. What is the solution and how can we get DVC to listen that we, as owner's, are tired of it and do not want to put up with the nonsense any longer?

Put it in writing. Send letters (not emails) to the DVC Member Satisfaction manager, resort manager, Jim Lewis and even Meg Crofton (prez of WDW). If you don't know the names of some of the people above, just use their titles.

Keep it short (I wouldn't go over a single page) and mention specific CMs by name whenever possible. I also think it helps to mention a couple of positive interactions with Disney staff to avoid being characterized as a crackpot who just wants to complain.

Making a point to attend the Condo Association meetings in November / December is also helpful. That's one of the few forums in which members are given the ability to openly voice their concerns and question DVC management.

 

[Debbie H]

I know DVC has been around for 15+ years, we bought in May 92. I still yearn for those days...

I don't know what the solution is but I can't imagine they can do nothing. So, if someone goes to the parks and comes back and showers, then leave, do they get charged? You said there are no free extensions. I consider this an extension.

We've put our concerns/praises in writing when we needed to, plus early on, went to member meetings. Perhaps I'll think about going to another.

 

[skelooch]

Boy this is a good one. There are many different senarios and variables here.
Here is my 2 cent FWIW which is about what's worth.
Penalty for late checkout should be on the paper work you sign when you check-in, if it's not alreardy. And the penalty should be steep, at least one nights rate at the current nightly rate, maybe even per hour, (cash not points) nothing gets peoples attention more than hitting them in the pocketbook.

The compensation for the inconvienced guest should be at least equal to what the offending guest is charged (again cash not points). Disney shouldn't get an extra penny for additional cleaning or anything for that matter, they're the ones that caused the problem.

As far as locking out the key at 11:00 am, that's a joke. I'd be willing to bet if you went back 3 days later your key would still open that room door. and I have experienced that first hand. Don't think for one moment that Disney is some highly technically sophisticated hotel operator, they're no more sophisticated that the mom and pop motel in your home town, they just charge more.

As for having to be escorted to your room by 1 or 2 CMs if you need to get back in "IF" your key was locked out, I'd bet 9 out of 10 times the CM at the front desk would hand you a new key. They are too trusting and would probably fall for any sob story, or they might be just too lazy or busy to take the time to escort someone back to there room. The liability that Disney assumes by doing so is staggering. This just happened to my son and daughter-in-law vacationing in Myrtle Beach, someone told the desk clerk they forgot something in their room, the clerk gave him a key to the room and he walked in on their best friends wife and daughter, fortunately he ran when he discovered someone in the room, but think of what could of happened. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen at Disney but I'm not so sure.
I wonder how the thefts at SSR that were just reported here happened.

Or the reverse, suppose they give you the key to your room assuming the previous guest had left and you walk in on someone, how do you know what their reaction would be.

If someone claims to be so sick that they cannot leave, Disney should immediately call for an ambulance and the person should be taken to a Hospital where they can be treated more affectively than in their room.

It is Disney's responsibility to enforce their own rules, I'm all for the harshes penalties to the offenders and the maximum compensation for the inconvienced guest.

For those that are soft on the subject or that it doesn't happen that often, I suggest that it happen to them and then see what their position would be.
I know how I would be and it wouldn't be pretty.

Well that's my 2 cents, I'm sure some will agree and some will not, but that's what these boards are for, to get things off your chest or give your opinion.
Sorry if this offends anyone.

 

[Machta]

Boy this is a good one. There are many different senarios and variables here.
Here is my 2 cent FWIW which is about what's worth.
Penalty for late checkout should be on the paper work you sign when you check-in, if it's not alreardy. And the penalty should be steep, at least one nights rate at the current nightly rate, maybe even per hour, (cash not points) nothing gets peoples attention more than hitting them in the pocketbook.

The compensation for the inconvienced guest should be at least equal to what the offending guest is charged (again cash not points). Disney shouldn't get an extra penny for additional cleaning or anything for that matter, they're the ones that caused the problem.

As far as locking out the key at 11:00 am, that's a joke. I'd be willing to bet if you went back 3 days later your key would still open that room door. and I have experienced that first hand. Don't think for one moment that Disney is some highly technically sophisticated hotel operator, they're no more sophisticated that the mom and pop motel in your home town, they just charge more.

As for having to be escorted to your room by 1 or 2 CMs if you need to get back in "IF" your key was locked out, I'd bet 9 out of 10 times the CM at the front desk would hand you a new key. They are too trusting and would probably fall for any sob story, or they might be just too lazy or busy to take the time to escort someone back to there room. The liability that Disney assumes by doing so is staggering. This just happened to my son and daughter-in-law vacationing in Myrtle Beach, someone told the desk clerk they forgot something in their room, the clerk gave him a key to the room and he walked in on their best friends wife and daughter, fortunately he ran when he discovered someone in the room, but think of what could of happened. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen at Disney but I'm not so sure.
I wonder how the thefts at SSR that were just reported here happened.

Or the reverse, suppose they give you the key to your room assuming the previous guest had left and you walk in on someone, how do you know what their reaction would be.

If someone claims to be so sick that they cannot leave, Disney should immediately call for an ambulance and the person should be taken to a Hospital where they can be treated more affectively than in their room.

It is Disney's responsibility to enforce their own rules, I'm all for the harshes penalties to the offenders and the maximum compensation for the inconvienced guest.

For those that are soft on the subject or that it doesn't happen that often, I suggest that it happen to them and then see what their position would be.
I know how I would be and it wouldn't be pretty.

Well that's my 2 cents, I'm sure some will agree and some will not, but that's what these boards are for, to get things off your chest or give your opinion.
Sorry if this offends anyone.

I am one of the offenders who has self-extended a stay almost, but not quite, at the last minute. In the wee hours of one morning in January of 2006 my husband was taken by ambulance from BCV to Celebration Hospital with what eventually turned out to be appendicitis. A few hours later my toddler woke crying with what turned out to be dual ear infections. After realizing I didn't have time to have a nervous breakdown, I called Member Services and extended our stay on points since we were due to leave the next day.

In thinking about the situation and reading this thread, I sincerely hope we didn't inconvenience anyone checking in after us. I honestly didn't think about trying to move to another room or hotel, and, to be very frank, it never even entered my head to worry if we were "blocking" someone else out of the room. When I call MS I asked if "it was possible" for us to stay at BCV another four nights, and if at all possible could we stay in the same room. I don't know the legality of the situation, but they were very gracious in helping us out.

While of course I agree that "self-extenders" who do so merely for "fun" are irritating, sometimes situations arise that are difficult for all involved. If MS had said that we needed to move, it would have been even more stressful but I'm sure we could have managed. As it was, DD's ears got better quickly, my husband was in the hospital about 30 hours with a 12-minute appendectomy, and both recovered nicely.

To whomever might have been inconvenienced by our behavior, I sincerely apologize.

 

[CarolMN]

I am one of the offenders who has self-extended a stay almost, but not quite, at the last minute. In the wee hours of one morning in January of 2006 my husband was taken by ambulance from BCV to Celebration Hospital with what eventually turned out to be appendicitis. A few hours later my toddler woke crying with what turned out to be dual ear infections. After realizing I didn't have time to have a nervous breakdown, I called Member Services and extended our stay on points since we were due to leave the next day.

In thinking about the situation and reading this thread, I sincerely hope we didn't inconvenience anyone checking in after us. I honestly didn't think about trying to move to another room or hotel, and, to be very frank, it never even entered my head to worry if we were "blocking" someone else out of the room. When I call MS I asked if "it was possible" for us to stay at BCV another four nights, and if at all possible could we stay in the same room. I don't know the legality of the situation, but they were very gracious in helping us out.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you did - no way did you "block" someone else out of the room. Even if someone had requested your particular room, a request is a request, not a guarantee. All you did was call MS who made a reservation for you for four more nights. That isn't a problem! If there weren't open rooms, MS would have referred you back to the front desk to see if they could help.

While of course I agree that "self-extenders" who do so merely for "fun" are irritating, sometimes situations arise that are difficult for all involved. If MS had said that we needed to move, it would have been even more stressful but I'm sure we could have managed. As it was, DD's ears got better quickly, my husband was in the hospital about 30 hours with a 12-minute appendectomy, and both recovered nicely.

To whomever might have been inconvenienced by our behavior, I sincerely apologize.

No need for apologies! Glad your DH & DD recovered quickly.

FWIW, my definition of the "self extenders" are people who stay a few hours past check out time, not intending to pay for another night, or people who use a room after check out time after it has obviously been cleaned and then go on their merry way. Doesn't include situations like yours - I doubt anyone here would say this thread applies to you in any way.

 

[Debbie H]

I am one of the offenders who has self-extended a stay almost, but not quite, at the last minute. In the wee hours of one morning in January of 2006 my husband was taken by ambulance from BCV to Celebration Hospital with what eventually turned out to be appendicitis. A few hours later my toddler woke crying with what turned out to be dual ear infections. After realizing I didn't have time to have a nervous breakdown, I called Member Services and extended our stay on points since we were due to leave the next day.

Machta, you were not a self extender, you had no choice. I'm sure if you could not have stayed in that room or resort, they would have found someplace for you. Just like when the hurricaine went through. I think what they are talking about is people who self extend a few hours so they can go to the partks, shopping, lunch, whatever. Then I think they should be charged a late fee.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I also agree...medical emergencies are a pretty darn good reason to have to stay longer. Plus you did the right thing by calling MS to see if it was possible to extend. Obviously they had availability or they wouldn't have processed the transaction for you. It's a completely different case for people that have a late flight etc. and just want to keep the room a few hours longer or can't drag their booties out of bed in time.

We are actually in one of those situations for our upcoming visit...our flight doesn't leave until 7pm and the thought of not being able to freshen up prior to the eight hour trip home was not a very pleasant one. In addition, I knew Labor Day Weekend would be very crowded, so I figured a request for late check-out would more than likely be denied so I just added an extra day to our stay. Hopefully when we check-out early, it might actually help somebody out.

 

[Entropy]

I believe the room keys should be deactivated at 11 am on day of checkout. I would much rather inconvenience an employee to come and supervise a guest who needs to be "let in" to the room again rather than have these people continuing to use a room after they have stopped paying for it. Isn't this considered trespassing? Geez....

That could be a problem.
What if you're loading your suitcases in the car and the clock ticks 11 with the last suitcase still in the room? You'll have to trek back to the lobby and inconvenience a CM so that you can get your last suitcase.
Perhaps give the tenant a grace period of an hour or so.

 

[Entropy]

We had not the exact situation but related. We were at BCV a few weeks ago, playing in SAB. I was talking to a fellow DVC member as our kids were playing together around noon. She said that yes, they knew that check out was at 11 a.m. but they slipped the maid $40 so they could stay until 2:00 It hadn't occurred to me that this actually went on .

I don't see that as a big problem, I might even consider it. What they are doing essentially is paying the mousekeeper for the inconvenience of cleaning their room last and probably out of sequence. If it was a problem for the mousekeeper, she could have declined it.
I don't think that it would delay anyone as far as being able to occupy at 4:00. The mousekeeper would just get a different room cleaned earlier.

 

[tjkraz]

Well, it's nice to see that at least some people acknowledge the fact that there is no "one size fits all" solution here.

It's worth pointing out that this thread started with a post NOT from a member who was denied a room for the night, rather from a member who simply did not get a room that met requests and did not get into the room until 90 minutes after check-in time. In fact the post itself stated "...I don't know the circumstances of the people that did it, but I do know that their actions impacted my vacation and hope that it was for a good reason..."

What then followed was six pages of people largely saying that they didn't even care about the circumstances...if it's 11:01 the room should locked!!! If they're sick, call an ambulance but get them the heck out of MY room!!! (Yes I'm paraphrasing but I trust I don't need to go and quote individual posters.)

The fact that the resort ultimately found OP a room tells me that they mishandled the situation from the start. The OP claims the front desk was able to "...scrounge one up in Grandstand...that they said they had just opened." Well, resort construction was complete as of June so it's not like someone ran over there to finish screwing in lightbulbs just so OP had a place to stay. If the resort was not at full occupancy, there shouldn't have been a problem with the people in question staying another night regardless of the circumstances. What did NOT happen was the resort staff didn't respond quickly enough to move OP to a different room, regardless of the requests. It shouldn't have taken until after 5pm to realize that the originally-assigned room wouldn't be vacated AND cleaned in time.

I would have no problem with posted charges for late departures. However, I still think it's nuts to advocate any system that has ZERO flexibility. And that's exactly what we have now: a flexible system. The resort can choose whatever course of action it deems appropriate given discussions with the party involved.

Emergencies happen: Storms keep flights from leaving Orlando...storms keep planes from flying into our cities-of-residence...airlines change schedules...cars break down....medical emergencies occur.

Thanks for sharing your story, Machta. It sounds like in order to satisfy some folks you would have had to have that nervous breakdown and be hospitalized yourself. Of course, then your luggage would have been put out to the curb so you'd have a whole new set of problems. Glad to hear Disney was able to help you make the best of a bad situation.

 

[Debbie H]

our flight doesn't leave until 7pm and the thought of not being able to freshen up prior to the eight hour trip home was not a very pleasant one

I don't know where you are staying but can you freshen up at the dressing rooms at the pool? That would help, but then remember, everyone else on that 8 hr trip probably didn't freshen up either!

 

[Debbie H]

If it was a problem for the mousekeeper, she could have declined it..

Do you really think a housekeeper would decline $40???? I don't think so!

 

[CarolAnnC]

That could be a problem.
What if you're loading your suitcases in the car and the clock ticks 11 with the last suitcase still in the room? You'll have to trek back to the lobby and inconvenience a CM so that you can get your last suitcase.
Perhaps give the tenant a grace period of an hour or so.

If a person cannot remove all their belongings prior to 11 am, what makes you think they can do it prior to 12 pm? It is called being responsible, and if they can't get their suitcases out till after 11 am, then maybe it should be 10 am checkout with a grace period to 11 am. I agree with the others, a monetary penalty will provide incentive for those people to vacate promptly and on time.

 

[Debbie H]

What then followed was six pages of people largely saying that they didn't even care about the circumstances...if it's 11:01 the room should locked!!! If they're sick, call an ambulance but get them the heck out of MY room!!! (Yes I'm paraphrasing but I trust I don't need to go and quote individual posters.)

I went back and read the last 6 pages and the conversation was actually regarding the second post. I only saw one poster who didn't care what the circumstances were. I believe what people would like is that people who "choose" not to vacate the room because "they" don't want to be inconvienced by not being able to shower or whatever after their last moments of their vacation are appropriately taken care of. I don't think it should be hard for anyone to pick up a phone and call the front desk if they are running late but to knowingly not check out of the room is unexcuseable, unless of course, there is an illness.

As mentioned in other posts there are other timeshares and resorts that do charge late fees and do deactivate the room keys. If you know that is the rule, 1) you make darn sure everyone is up and ready to go before check out time, or 2) you inform someone of the delay. I think that is common courtesy to everyone, front desk, housekeeping, and the guests that are anxiously awaiting the start of their vacation in that room. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are concerned with what they want and do not really care what impact that has on anyone else.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I don't know where you are staying but can you freshen up at the dressing rooms at the pool? That would help, but then remember, everyone else on that 8 hr trip probably didn't freshen up either!

We're staying @ OKW. If we didn't already have the room reserved for an extra night, the dressing rooms would have been a good option. Thanks for the suggestion.

If there's one thing I can guarantee, I'll be the one that gets the seat on the plane next to the person that didn't "freshen" up. I always have to take one for the team!!!

I'm actually really glad we decided to go with the extra night to keep the room longer (I made the change a couple of months ago, BTW) as we will have access to our personal belongings all day instead of having to dump them with bell services first thing in the morning. Hey, I might actually go home with a suitcase full of clean clothes for a change.

 

[Inkmahm]

Well, it's nice to see that at least some people acknowledge the fact that there is no "one size fits all" solution here.

It's worth pointing out that this thread started with a post NOT from a member who was denied a room for the night, rather from a member who simply did not get a room that met requests and did not get into the room until 90 minutes after check-in time. In fact the post itself stated "...I don't know the circumstances of the people that did it, but I do know that their actions impacted my vacation and hope that it was for a good reason..."

What then followed was six pages of people largely saying that they didn't even care about the circumstances...if it's 11:01 the room should locked!!! If they're sick, call an ambulance but get them the heck out of MY room!!! (Yes I'm paraphrasing but I trust I don't need to go and quote individual posters.)

The fact that the resort ultimately found OP a room tells me that they mishandled the situation from the start. The OP claims the front desk was able to "...scrounge one up in Grandstand...that they said they had just opened." Well, resort construction was complete as of June so it's not like someone ran over there to finish screwing in lightbulbs just so OP had a place to stay. If the resort was not at full occupancy, there shouldn't have been a problem with the people in question staying another night regardless of the circumstances. What did NOT happen was the resort staff didn't respond quickly enough to move OP to a different room, regardless of the requests. It shouldn't have taken until after 5pm to realize that the originally-assigned room wouldn't be vacated AND cleaned in time.

I would have no problem with posted charges for late departures. However, I still think it's nuts to advocate any system that has ZERO flexibility. And that's exactly what we have now: a flexible system. The resort can choose whatever course of action it deems appropriate given discussions with the party involved.

Emergencies happen: Storms keep flights from leaving Orlando...storms keep planes from flying into our cities-of-residence...airlines change schedules...cars break down....medical emergencies occur.

Thanks for sharing your story, Machta. It sounds like in order to satisfy some folks you would have had to have that nervous breakdown and be hospitalized yourself. Of course, then your luggage would have been put out to the curb so you'd have a whole new set of problems. Glad to hear Disney was able to help you make the best of a bad situation.

I don't see how locking out the use of the keys at 11 am is being inflexible and not allowing Disney to make decisions to help someone in an emergency. All it would do would force the self extenders to actually TALK to someone at Disney about using the room longer. The self extenders wouldn't just be allowed to keep the room by default.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't see how locking out the use of the keys at 11 am is being inflexible and not allowing Disney to make decisions to help someone in an emergency. All it would do would force the self extenders to actually TALK to someone at Disney about using the room longer. The self extenders wouldn't just be allowed to keep the room by default.

According to Florida Statute 509.141 a public lodging establishment has the right to evict a guest who fails to check-out by the agreed-upon time, but only after providing notice as follows:

The operator of any public lodging establishment or public food service establishment shall notify such guest that the establishment no longer desires to entertain the guest and shall request that such guest immediately depart from the establishment. Such notice may be given orally or in writing. If the notice is in writing, it shall be as follows:

"You are hereby notified that this establishment no longer desires to entertain you as its guest, and you are requested to leave at once. To remain after receipt of this notice is a misdemeanor under the laws of this state."

The hotel cannot simply deny access to its services and amenities (including the room and the occupant's personal possessions) until they determine that the guest is unwilling to pay to extend the stay AND until the proper notice has been served.

Agreements signed at check-in may entitle the resort to bill additional charges to the guest for staying beyond the posted time, but arbitrarily locking the door at 11:01 am would be illegal.

The mistakes made here were the CM who provided too much info at check-in (giving OP expectations which ultimately went unfulfilled) and the manager who didn't respond quickly enough to the guests staying another night.

If this happens frequently, as the manager told OP, the resort should already have procedures for dealing with guests in a manner that complies with the law.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Well, I am not sure that Florida laws for "public lodging establishments" would also apply to private timeshare (or DVC) owners. Assuming it does, perhaps a special assessment should be enacted and held in escrow from all DVC owners from which late departure fees could be withdrawn when owners (or their renters) do not leave (or return to the room) by checkout time.

I would say it is probably also against the law for someone to return to a room which should have been checked out of and use the room and amenities after it has been assigned to someone else. All the stories in this thread of people who had strangers walk into their rooms, or returned and used the room after it was cleaned are just horrendous. Illegal entry, trespassing, invasion of privacy are just a few laws that come to mind....

I am trying to understand why any DVC owner would be encouraging folks to retain occupancy after checkout date/time or why they would encourage anyone to feel it is ok to go back into your room after checkout date/time has passed? Finding loopholes to allow them to stay later is not the intent of the law...

 

[Debbie H]

I am trying to understand why any DVC owner would be encouraging folks to retain occupancy after checkout date/time or why they would encourage anyone to feel it is ok to go back into your room after checkout date/time has passed? Finding loopholes to allow them to stay later is not the intent of the law...

I believe it is because those that do it feel it is their "right". I hear people say they can do something becaue they are DVC owners when they do something stupid. I can remember OKW use to have peanuts at the bar and one night it got really out of hand with some owners (from a NE state) throwing peanuts around the entire bar and at the bartenders. When asked to stop, they said they could do what they wanted, they were DVC owners. That was the last time they had peanuts there for the guests.

 

[Goofy DVC]

Okay, I can't take it. I must respond. I'm new to these boards, and must admit that I am shocked by some of the posts.Theft at SSR, rude members and now "self extenders". I guess I've been living in Fantsyland since 93 when we joined.Kind of depressing.I hope that these situations are by far the minority or somewhat exaggerated.That being said, the obvious solution to all of this is quite simple to me. What you don't confront or deal with ,Disney, you promote or indicate by lack of action, that it is okay.I know, I know, you thinking that's obvious Einstien, but think about it. My interpertation is that those members who yell and scream the most get what they want. Disney might be rewarding negative behavior.Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, "THEY ARE DVC MEMBERS" that makes it okay. When they are not dealt with in an appropriate way, they will only reinforce the behavior.Example, members self extend stay to 3 PM. CMs try to tell them to leave, but they are at the parks. They come home and share with other DVC members their trip, and that they checked out late the last day after taking a shower at 2 PM.They are asked "What happened?" They respond, "Nothing, WE ARE DVC MEMBERS, they can wait til my sorry a** leaves".Those members might say, next time I'm not rushing to leave the room.And so on, and so son. Now, if they heard their fellow neighbor and DVC member scream the day they opened ther credit card statement and saw a $300 late checkout fee, they might respond, "I'm glad we check out on time.DVC needs to hold itself and members accountable for their behavior.DVC is half the problem for not dealing with it.
I'm sorry,I'm ranting. Maybe I need to stay away from the boards.