Security Deposit Question. WWYD Updated "drama".

[DawnCt1]

More drama!

Apparently I am the only parent that has responded to the email that this person originally sent, other wise I would have seen that 'everyone else" has paid. The parent that works for the lawyer is correct; Ct. State law says that whoever paid for the security deposit, gets the refund and those funds must be paid within 30 days of termination of the lease. That may be the issue however, termination of the lease. It doesn't end until the current occupants move out. "R", is one who moved out and is due a security deposit refund but at least he sees my side of it. DS's lease is with the apartment complex. I could see us in a situation where I pay the refund to the previous tenants and then the complex also comes after us for a security deposit. My inclination is not to respond to this latest email and see what the other tenants and parents do and see what the previous tenants do as well. Thoughts?

I’m Rs dad, not S, but I can understand how both sides feel. I think C. H operates a very unethical business, taking advantage of students and parents with the language they have in their leases. I would love to see somebody challenge the legality of their agreements.



From: Re: security deposit



Hi J.

Not sure who you are but I am assuming Ss dad???? I agree with you 100%, it is a real scam and I can't wait for my son to graduate. I actually have another son who did just graduate and lived in these apartments also. We really didn't have any trouble with his except they kept sending my payments to the wrong son's account. When he left, we did get a reimbursement equal to about 90% of the security deposit which I actually thought was reasonable since the apartment was filthy and a couple things were broken, like a light and a mirror and a closet door.



The difference here is this whole role over thing. You are correct, I wasn't around when all the leases were signed and wasn't asked by my son or by management to sign or even read them. Wish I had known then what I know now. At any rate, the $3750 the 4 tennants of that apartment put down as security deposit a year ago June, is still with the Condo Association and the leases clearly state that whatever is deemed returnable next June, gets retuned equally to whoever's name's are on the lease at that time, unfortunately for us, S's, Dawn's son and A names.

So, we now have to either try to:

*collect froim the three of you, the security depost, which Dawn has refused to do,

*agree upon a reaonable amount that will be refunded next June, like 80%, and collect it from you,

*trust that when you are all reimbursed next June, all the funds will be sent to us, which we don't want to do,

* try to get some type of documentation attached to the lease stating that the funds be sent to us at our addresses.



Of course, the three of us would like our money back long before next June, even if it were 80% of it, $3000 instead of $3750.Having you send us the reimbursement next June leaves us at your boys mercy when it comes to how they take care of the apartment. But, Dawn doesn't feel she should have to pay anything which is why I came up with the alternative of getting documentation to management for checks to be sent to us.



I will give you a heads up, one of the other parent's of the original tennants works for an attorney and she is looking into it as she thinks the whole lease agreement dosn't follow state and local housing authority laws. She isn't even happy about the 80% suggestion as it also clearly states that your boys assumed the lease with the apartment "as is".

So, I don't know where we all stand but I will say this, as unfair as it is for you to have to pay a security deposit on a place you think is dirty and falling apart, we think it is unfair that your boys now get to live there without having to put down any security deposit at all, our money is tied up for an entire year and we now risk you getting our money and us losing the entire amount. Remember, there is no other place you can rent an apartment and not have to put down a sizeable security deposit.

LESSON TO BE LEARNED, COLLEGE STUDENTS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SIGN LEASES WITHOUT PARENTS AS COSIGNERS!

D

 

[The Mystery Machine]

They are trying to rip you off. I mean really? They know their contract is with the complex.

Spare me.

Ignore the email.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I would tell her to go pound sand.

The issue of the deposit is between the landlord & her and that is it. I would not give her money out of my checkbook period.

ITA.

Uggh, not a good way for you to be spending your Tuesday.

It sounds to me like there is a distinct possibility that if you pay her the money you will be indirectly accepting financial responsibility for the way the apartment is found at the end of the rental period even though your son is a newbie. Since your son moved into the place 'in good faith' that everyone would keep up their end on responsibility then I think it is fair for your son to expect them to extend to your son the same courtesy. This parents fight is with the landlord, not you or your son and i would bomarang that baby right back at her.

Simply put, I'd tell her that if she can work out a situation with the landlord where he will be willing to return her money directly to her then your son would be happy to accommodate whatever the landlord requests he do to help facilitate the resolution including paying the landlord a replacement deposit. However, none of this behind the scenes stuff is going to happen because it puts both yourself and your son in a dangerous position of financial responsibility with none of the protections afforded a tenant. Then I would step back and wait for her to do all the work.

Yep.

They are trying to rip you off. I mean really? They know their contract is with the complex.

Spare me.

Ignore the email.

And yep.

---------------------------

I think the condition the students left the place is key. You don't get your deposit back for that. It's pretty basic. If the mother is so concerned about the deposit, she should have made sure her DS followed the contract to the letter.

Bottom line, it's not your problem. She's trying to make it your problem. Don't accept it.

I like the word, "refuse". Keep doing it!

 

[DawnCt1]

They are trying to rip you off. I mean really? They know their contract is with the complex.

Spare me.

Ignore the email.

ITA.



Yep.



And yep.

---------------------------

I think the condition the students left the place is key. You don't get your deposit back for that. It's pretty basic. If the mother is so concerned about the deposit, she should have made sure her DS followed the contract to the letter.

Bottom line, it's not your problem. She's trying to make it your problem. Don't accept it.

I like the word, "refuse". Keep doing it!

Thank you both for your support. I was beginning to feel a bit "guilty" for no rational reason. Her beef is with the apartment. If they settle with the previous tenants and come after us for a security deposit, I will require that they clean the carpet or at least document the condition of the apartment at that time. The best part in all of this is that J, R's dad, who also has a stake in this, sees my side.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Thank you both for your support. I was beginning to feel a bit "guilty" for no rational reason. Her beef is with the apartment. If they settle with the previous tenants and come after us for a security deposit, I will require that they clean the carpet or at least document the condition of the apartment at that time.

Your welcome, Dawn.

Just because the others fold to her demands, doesn't mean you have to. Her contract is with the complex. Not with you. Even if she does the required fixes, I'd tell her to resolve it with them. Can't She get the deposit when the lease is up? She is in an awful hurry to get the funds, which is a red flag given the circumstances. I think she *knows* she wouldn't get it from the complex (because of the condition in which it was left) and getting it from you guys is her only recourse. In fact, I'd remind her that your DS subletting (?) is doing her a favor because that is one monthly expense she doesn't have any longer. And I'd keep reminding her of the horrid! condition her DS (and others) left the place. I'd bring it up every time. But I'm mean like that.

Your DS did not sign a contract and has no obligation. It's not right for her to force her issue.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Quote from Dawn's post:

I’m Rs dad, not S, but I can understand how both sides feel. I think C. H operates a very unethical business, taking advantage of students and parents with the language they have in their leases. I would love to see somebody challenge the legality of their agreements.



From: Re: security deposit



Hi J.

Not sure who you are but I am assuming Ss dad???? I agree with you 100%, it is a real scam and I can't wait for my son to graduate. I actually have another son who did just graduate and lived in these apartments also. We really didn't have any trouble with his except they kept sending my payments to the wrong son's account. When he left, we did get a reimbursement equal to about 90% of the security deposit which I actually thought was reasonable since the apartment was filthy and a couple things were broken, like a light and a mirror and a closet door.



The difference here is this whole role over thing. You are correct, I wasn't around when all the leases were signed and wasn't asked by my son or by management to sign or even read them. Wish I had known then what I know now. At any rate, the $3750 the 4 tennants of that apartment put down as security deposit a year ago June, is still with the Condo Association and the leases clearly state that whatever is deemed returnable next June, gets retuned equally to whoever's name's are on the lease at that time, unfortunately for us, S's, Dawn's son and A names.

So, we now have to either try to:

*collect froim the three of you, the security depost, which Dawn has refused to do,

*agree upon a reaonable amount that will be refunded next June, like 80%, and collect it from you,

*trust that when you are all reimbursed next June, all the funds will be sent to us, which we don't want to do,

* try to get some type of documentation attached to the lease stating that the funds be sent to us at our addresses.



Of course, the three of us would like our money back long before next June, even if it were 80% of it, $3000 instead of $3750.Having you send us the reimbursement next June leaves us at your boys mercy when it comes to how they take care of the apartment. But, Dawn doesn't feel she should have to pay anything which is why I came up with the alternative of getting documentation to management for checks to be sent to us.



I will give you a heads up, one of the other parent's of the original tennants works for an attorney and she is looking into it as she thinks the whole lease agreement dosn't follow state and local housing authority laws. She isn't even happy about the 80% suggestion as it also clearly states that your boys assumed the lease with the apartment "as is".

So, I don't know where we all stand but I will say this, as unfair as it is for you to have to pay a security deposit on a place you think is dirty and falling apart, we think it is unfair that your boys now get to live there without having to put down any security deposit at all, our money is tied up for an entire year and we now risk you getting our money and us losing the entire amount. Remember, there is no other place you can rent an apartment and not have to put down a sizeable security deposit.

LESSON TO BE LEARNED, COLLEGE STUDENTS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SIGN LEASES WITHOUT PARENTS AS COSIGNERS!

D
-------------------------------

Another point is your DS was "invited" to live at this residence. I think it was a set up to get their funds returned from the start.

They knew the situation. They knew the length of the contract. Now, they don't "*trust that when you are all reimbursed next June, all the funds will be sent to us, which we don't want to do". That is pretty glaring. They don't trust you, but want you to trust them after putting your DS in the hot seat.

I smell a bunch of rats.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Another point is your DS was "invited" to live at this residence. I think it was a set up to get their funds returned from the start.

They knew the situation. They knew the length of the contract. Now, they don't "*trust that when you are all reimbursed next June, all the funds will be sent to us, which we don't want to do". That is pretty glaring. They don't trust you, but want you to trust them after putting your DS in the hot seat.

I smell a bunch of rats.

I know, right? If you can't see through that pane of glass you are naive.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I'd seriously have a talk with DS about finding another place. Their bird in the hand would have to fly the coop with all of the constant demands.

Some invitation!!

 

[tlbwriter]

Well, I agree with the other parents that this setup isn't exactly fair. But the unfairness is not your fault. If they moved out of an apartment without getting their security deposit back, that was their decision, and they have to deal with the consequences.

 

[lovetoscrap]

I have to say that I am a bit confused by all of this, but I haven't had much coffee this morning.

As someone that has seen things from the Landlord side of things (my parents own student apartment buildings) the Landlord doesn't give a fig about who did what damage and when. They expect an apartment that is returned in a similar condition when it was originally turned over, regardless of who lives there. If there is damage beyond normal wear and tear then they will be removing those charges from the security deposit and returning the rest (if there is any to return). You have no way to predict right now how much they will charge to rectify damages, or even what they will see as damages so there is no way I would give this woman back the full amount. Some places count shampooing the carpet as a "normal wear and tear" so no charge where as others feel that you are responsible for the carpet being cleaned if they need it and if you don't rent a machine or have someone do it for you they will charge you for it. Same with small holes--sometimes they charge and sometimes they don't.


Many places do leases for students on a set schedule around the school schedule-- for us it is basically August 15 to August 15-- instead of just a one year lease starting on the date that date you move in. If they have an apartment empty and someone were to move in around October, their lease would still be up August 15 and they would just owe the monthly rate from Oct-Aug. Is this the way it is there? If so is this a new term of this lease? So the original tenant renewed his lease for a 2nd year? We wouldn't do a walk through and cleaning/repairs of the apt either. That is part of the reason that landlords want renewing tenants, it makes their job easier since they don't have to do a complete turnover of the apartment.(often they offer an incentive for this, like no rent increase or a one time discount) And you said there is a housing shortage on campus which puts the Management in an even better position to say "you are on your own". Supply and demand. Sounds like the demand exceeds the supply. The Landlord holds all the cards.

If they are just taking over a lease term that the original tenants signed is there a reason that you signed a new lease with the company as opposed to just subletting from the original lease holders? Not sure what the idea that he was "invited" to move in has to do with anything? He is a renting tenant with roommates. Whether he answered an ad on Craigslist, found the apt through the Management Company or was invited by a friend to come join them is all the same.

I think that I would tell this woman that if SHE (or her student) want to come in and shampoo the carpets, make repairs, do a complete clean to your satisfaction then you will reimburse her the security deposit. But make sure you are clear on whom the company will return the end deposit to since that seems to be in dispute. If they would be sending it to the original payors then that could be an issue.

Frankly this woman is an idiot for letting things happen this way. She has no idea what damage could be done by the end of the year. Not casting aspersions on your son, but you just never know what can happen even with your own child living there. It is possible that ALL the damage deposit could be kept due to damages/cleanliness issues. What does she plan to do then? She should have insisted that everyone vacate the apartment and it be turned back over to the management company so those moving out were no longer obligated. But she didn't so she is stuck with the situation as it is.

Like I said-- I would tell her that when she arranges for the apartment to be completely cleaned and repainted and repaired etc.. and you know that the security at the end of the lease will be returned to your son, then you will send her your son's portion of the security. It was HER son's and the other roommates responsibility to leave the place immaculate. They didn't so she should still be obligated by that security deposit.

 

[DawnCt1]

I think at this point I am going to take Howie Carr's advice for everything;

"Never write anything when you can speak it, never speak when you can nod, never nod when you can wink."

And not do anything.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I think you are right. The whole thing is whipping up into an angry hornets nest in a hurry.

I like the quote, I think I'll have it framed and placed in front of where I do dishes so I can study it every night.

 

[OceanAnnie]

The thing is, I think you have some people that won't give up.

The lawyer statement would bother me. I don't think they have a claim to your money, but it would bother me just the same. Bullying. Hounding. Very unpleasant.

I think I wouldn't say anything more to them either, but I would contact a lawyer (free consultation) and present the facts to them if I were contacted again.

I don't like to be hounded. I would tell them they invited your DS with strings attached without notification and he therefore has no obligation to them, as per your legal representation. Or you could just defer to the contract they signed that your DS did not.

Last strike, nip.it.in.the.bud.

 

[DawnCt1]

The thing is, I think you have some people that won't give up.

The lawyer statement would bother me. I don't think they have a claim to your money, but it would bother me just the same. Bullying. Hounding. Very unpleasant.

I think I wouldn't say anything more to them either, but I would contact a lawyer (free consultation) and present the facts to them if I were contacted again.

I don't like to be hounded. I would tell them they invited your DS with strings attached without notification and he therefore has no obligation to them, as per your legal representation.

Last strike, nip.it.in.the.bud.

You have a good point. To me it would be like buying a house. Your lawyer assures you that the title is clean, you close, and then a contractor hired by the previous owner shows up to put a lean on your property. It sounds like the lawyer issue would be directed to the landlord. They are in violation of the law that governs rental properties. I don't think anyone has challenged this with them, or at least too often. Most kids get into these units by being invited by a current occupant. Apparently they have waiting lists for these dumps.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Dawn, at some point I'd have to tell them your stance is firm. And I'd advise to review their contract and start and end there with retrieving their funds. I would also add that I do not wish to be contacted about it again.

I would not waste another minute listening to and receiving information about their "unfortunate" circumstances, all while being hounded for your "share" of the deposit. It just doesn't work that way. You don't have a "share".

You, nor your DS had a hand in their position. I would end it. If you have to be gruff about it, so be it. You have been treated rather poorly through the whole thing. Gruff speaks sometimes.

 

[momrek06]

Dawn, do you think the college's housing dept could assist you with this mess?

My DS' both grad from a college in the northeast and both DS' lived off campus (junior/senior years) but the landlords worked hand in hand with the college. We paid the landlord our rent but the landlord as well as the college was there 24/7 if a parent had any issues with anything throughout the school year.

I do know that with DS' leases, every roomie (4 per apt) signed THEIR OWN LEASE with the landlord and we co-signed it as well. Period. A lease per tenant.

 

[surfgirl]

I think the Mgmt Co screwed up, too... by effectively 'changing' the lease. Did the previous tenant sign that he was relinquishing his portion of the lease ?

When I was a student, we had to pay sec dep and you were the lessee for a year. If someone else lived there instead of you, you could sublet it (and summer sublet were usually very cheap with the original signer subsidizing rent). But you were still responsible at the end.

I'm surprised Mgmt would have allowed turn-over without an inspection. Also, I would document everything wrong with it from when he moved it. If he can get photos now, that at least helps your case. Be mentally prepared to be taken to small claims court and the more documentation you have, the better off you'll be. Have you ever seen the inspection form when the original four moved in ? (I doubt it...) So you don't even know the condition of what you are signing to...

good luck.

 

[Arielle22]

Dawn, what state is the college in? If it is MA I can get you a link to the renter's rights.

 

[DawnCt1]

Dawn, what state is the college in? If it is MA I can get you a link to the renter's rights.

Connecticut. The landlord seems to be in violation of the security deposit rules, but Ocean Annie is right. It is their problem, not mine. Our agreement is with the landlord, not previous tenants. No doubt, I will get un-nerved again, and post the next update...

 

[DawnCt1]

Connecticut. The landlord seems to be in violation of the security deposit rules, but Ocean Annie is right. It is their problem, not mine. Our agreement is with the landlord, not previous tenants. No doubt, I will get un-nerved again, and post the next update...

Like today. One of the boys that moved out told his mother than the apartment is still messy! No surprise there. I texted all of the current occupants and told them that their former roommate is reporting back to his mother so they need to bliitz clean the apartment and if their are any holes DH can repair them easily because I am being deluged in emails. If they are smart, they won't let him in.