Seats on the bus

[watkinsme]

I haven't read this whole thread - and I"m not going to - I can see all sides - I have been the person who has given their seat up, I have been the young person so tired I didn't offer my seat, I have been the overweight pregnant with young child who was asleep who desperately needed a seat but was not offered, and most recently I have been the scooter rider that
"looked healthy" but sat down and didn't offer a seat.

When me and my family ride (there are 5 of us, kids 6,5, and 2) we try hardest to only take up 3 seats - infant in DH;s lap, two other kids sharing a seat and me trying to hold onto our double jogging stroller.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt - I know vacations are meant to be relaxing (haven't managed to have a relaxing one yet) but they can be stressful. I try to be courteous but I really don't mind that others are not, I'm sure they have their reasons and to them their reasons are justified. At the end of the day everyone here is going to have views that are different and to me that's ok because it would be a dull world if we all thought the same....

ALL THAT ASIDE...

Every. Single. Time. I log in I see this post my head automatically sings

The seats on the bus go up and down - up and down - up and down...

 

[duffy]

So you're saying you can tell what someone is thinking just by looking at their face? They could be thinking, "ew, it's smelly/crowded/sweaty in this bus."

I can tell when someone is giving me a dirty look.

 

[KellyNY]

On the other extreme are those who believe in always waiting for the next bus, renting a car, take a cab, etc.

I do not think that taking care of your family needs is extreme. As far as I know you rent a car, so...

 

[Schmeck]

That said, I agree that those who are sitting and can't or won't get up should not be judged as socially inept, especially by today's standards, where chivalry is not only not expected, but, as we've seen on this board, considered passe and contemptible by many.

Chivalry does not equal good manners! It was akin to a class system, where men of nobility had this strange notion that it was OK to oppress others as long as you were kind about it.

If someone acted chivalrous to me, I'd pop them in the nose. I don't need to be reminded of 'my place in society', thank you.

 

[larryz]

Chivalry does not equal good manners! It was akin to a class system, where men of nobility had this strange notion that it was OK to oppress others as long as you were kind about it.

If someone acted chivalrous to me, I'd pop them in the nose. I don't need to be reminded of 'my place in society', thank you.

Wow! Thanks for illustrating what I meant by "contemptible."

There's a very well-written treatise on chivalry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry. I don't like to cite wikipedia in general, but this particular article is rather well done.

In it, it states that the concept of chivalry evolved through the middle ages to encompass:
"1) Duties to countrymen and fellow Christians: this contains virtues such as mercy, courage, valor, fairness, protection of the weak and the poor, and in the servant-hood of the knight to his lord. This also brings with it the idea of being willing to give one’s life for another’s; whether he would be giving his life for a poor man or his lord.
2) Duties to God: this would contain being faithful to God, protecting the innocent, being faithful to the church, being the champion of good against evil, being generous and obeying God above the feudal lord.
3) Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women."

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not getting class oppression out of any of those concepts.

Perhaps you're confusing chivalry with noblesse oblige?

 

[KellyNY]

Wow! Thanks for illustrating what I meant by "contemptible."

There's a very well-written treatise on chivalry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry. I don't like to cite wikipedia in general, but this particular article is rather well done.

In it, it states that the concept of chivalry evolved through the middle ages to encompass:
"1) Duties to countrymen and fellow Christians: this contains virtues such as mercy, courage, valor, fairness, protection of the weak and the poor, and in the servant-hood of the knight to his lord. This also brings with it the idea of being willing to give one’s life for another’s; whether he would be giving his life for a poor man or his lord.
2) Duties to God: this would contain being faithful to God, protecting the innocent, being faithful to the church, being the champion of good against evil, being generous and obeying God above the feudal lord.
3) Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women."

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not getting class oppression out of any of those concepts.

Perhaps you're confusing chivalry with noblesse oblige?

but since women were considered weak, this is probably why they needed to be served. notice that it does not say respect women as equal but treat them differently from men.

 

[karice2]

I am a fully able bodied person. No pins, screws, arthritis or hidden disabilities. I choose to go to Disney World solo because it makes me happy. I don't have kids but I recognize that it is going to be filled with kids and families. I find myself doing things in the spirit of honoring that this is a family place and people want their kids to enjoy the magic of it all. I will share my little space that I found to watch a parade or let a family go ahead of me in a line because their kid is about to have a meltdown. Sometimes, I think I may overcompensate but it doesn't cost me anything to let these things go so I do it.

At the end of the night, after I have been so family friendly, I just want to sit down on the bus and get back to my hotel. I said sit. I have been walking for miles all day just like everyone else and will let a bus go so that I can get a seat. In some ways I feel like I earned my seat by being so family friendly all day. I use the bus ride as a way to settle down so that when I get to my room, I will be ready for bed. Good thing I can just pop in my Ipod and read a book on my phone so I don't have to see the dirty looks.

So when one gets on the bus at night and believes that a seat should be given up for your family, think of all the other niceties that have been done to make your trip magical and let the person have their seat without dirty looks or sighs as a way of giving some magic back.

 

[always]

Wow! Thanks for illustrating what I meant by "contemptible."

There's a very well-written treatise on chivalry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry. I don't like to cite wikipedia in general, but this particular article is rather well done.

In it, it states that the concept of chivalry evolved through the middle ages to encompass:
"1) Duties to countrymen and fellow Christians: this contains virtues such as mercy, courage, valor, fairness, protection of the weak and the poor, and in the servant-hood of the knight to his lord. This also brings with it the idea of being willing to give one’s life for another’s; whether he would be giving his life for a poor man or his lord.
2) Duties to God: this would contain being faithful to God, protecting the innocent, being faithful to the church, being the champion of good against evil, being generous and obeying God above the feudal lord.
3) Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women."

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not getting class oppression out of any of those concepts.

Perhaps you're confusing chivalry with noblesse oblige?

The feudal pyramid was all about what "class" or rank. Serving your "earthly lord" was number 1, the heavenly lord #2, and #3 his lady. Courtly love isn't all that romantic either...women were certainly oppressed during the middle ages.

As far as the first duty referring to knight giving their lives for even a poor man, um no. The serf/peasant classes were treated pretty brutally during the middle ages. I mean, serfs were considered part of an estate.
Chivalry certainly has been romanticized over the centuries.

 

[karice2]

Have to admit that today, when I couldn't get a seat on the street car because a DOG was sitting in his own seat, I got a little annoyed.

No, I don't need a seat, but neither did the dog (it was not a service dog).

 

[trainingupmy4princes]

This doesn't surprise me. The older generations care more about manners in general. Manners are severely lacking nowadays. It's always about doing what is best for you and screw everyone else. It also makes it hard to teach your children why they have to be polite and give things up when no one else does. But what can ya do? we just go in expecting the rudeness from guests. We try to be polite wherever possible. And when someone goes out of their way for us, I make sure they know how thankful we are.

And sexist or not, my boys will always give up their seat or open a door for a girl. Screw equality. In my household, hubby and I are equal on some levels but he still has his manly duties and I still have my womanly duties. I.e. If I see a spider....his manly butt will take care of it!


ETA: sure seems like a lot of people are anti kids at Disney. Maybe kids just shouldn't be allowed to go. Or only during certain hours. sheesh....I'm goin to bed, lol.

I'm with you I don't want equality when it comes to spiders,snakes or mice.

My DH doesn't think of chivalry meaning I'm weaker just manners and he is glad to offer up his seat and open doors as long as he doesn't have to go through childbirth. Seriously he was raised to think of others and so are our children and yes as a female I have offered up my seat to elderly or anyone in more need than me. Even my autistic DS offers up his seat when he's having a good day. On bad days I'm the one hoping for a seat or nice person.

 

[Haley]

I'm surprised some people here teach their kids to get up to let an adult sit down....

There's no way I want my dd to do that- kids need to stay seated for their safety.

My dd's safety is way more important to me than whether an adult didn't feel like waiting for the next bus, or is old or a woman or gives dirty looks...

 

[CindeBella]

I completely agree with this. No offense but I have three children myself; went to Disney when they were small and not once would I have every expected anyone to give up their seat. If I wanted a seat that bad or needed one I would wait.

My hubby is old school and he has always given his seat up if needed; it's the way he was raised.

A seat freely given is fine in my book but it shouldn't be expected.

I agree with everything you wrote but I also understand where the author is coming from. I think it's more of an observation, especially if you have a spouse that is considerate that way, or a father, brother... My husband still opens my car door, carries my bags.. he's a gentleman as are my father and brother. I definitely notice.

We have three children and never have I expected anyone to give up their seat for me when my children were small, and my husband being the man that he is, never sits if there are others standing. It's one of the things that I love about him. Our boys (ages 14 and 11) give up their seats for a lady, small child and senior if they are standing. I am so proud of them for that and always tell them.

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm female but I am neither elderly or disabled, and if a male tries to give me a seat I won't accept it. I don't need a seat just for being female.

But I'll say "no thank you" and not "You lousy male chauvinist, I don't need your #*!$ seat" like I saw someone say once on the Metro.

 

[MrRomance]

In normal circumstances if I were on public transport at home I would certainly give up my seat for someone more needing of it. However, I don't think it is really fair to expect people to give up seats or complain when they don't when you're at WDW. Let's be honest, EVERYONE needs a seat after a long day at the parks and it kinda levels the playing field.

I always rent a car just to avoid this but if I didn't, I would simply wait for another bus.

 

[HadesTX]

I'm female but I am neither elderly or disabled, and if a male tries to give me a seat I won't accept it. I don't need a seat just for being female.

But I'll say "no thank you" and not "You lousy male chauvinist, I don't need your #*!$ seat" like I saw someone say once on the Metro.

Nice.

 

[crashbb]

I agree with everything you wrote but I also understand where the author is coming from. I think it's more of an observation, especially if you have a spouse that is considerate that way, or a father, brother... My husband still opens my car door, carries my bags.. he's a gentleman as are my father and brother. I definitely notice.

We have three children and never have I expected anyone to give up their seat for me when my children were small, and my husband being the man that he is, never sits if there are others standing. It's one of the things that I love about him. Our boys (ages 14 and 11) give up their seats for a lady, small child and senior if they are standing. I am so proud of them for that and always tell them.

Is your third child too young to give up a seat? Or, if your third child is a girl, are you not teaching her to give up her seat?

 

[Jey12]

I'm surprised some people here teach their kids to get up to let an adult sit down....

There's no way I want my dd to do that- kids need to stay seated for their safety.

My dd's safety is way more important to me than whether an adult didn't feel like waiting for the next bus, or is old or a woman or gives dirty looks...

If DD is young enough where I feel her safety is in question she can sit on my lap. If she is too old to sit on my lap then she is old enough to learn to give up her seat for someone that appears to need it more than she does. If she's too old to sit on my lap I feel she can stand safely by that time.

That's just what we do, not saying it's something I expect all children to do, or adults. Just giving a reason why some people are saying they are teaching their children to offer a seat if needed. It's what I would do after DD is past a certain age and level where standing is no more of a safety issue than anyone else. Right now DD is 5 and I'd prefer she not stand. If we have seats she will sit on my lap at this age, and if there's an empty seat near us after everyone has boarded she can have her own. Just my thoughts. They're no more important than the next person's. It's what I teach my child and what I was taught.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I'm surprised some people here teach their kids to get up to let an adult sit down....

There's no way I want my dd to do that- kids need to stay seated for their safety.

My dd's safety is way more important to me than whether an adult didn't feel like waiting for the next bus, or is old or a woman or gives dirty looks...

I understand about safety for your child and agree totally. If it is not safe because your child is too young, they should not be giving it up. On the other hand, when they are old enough, they should be taught to do so. If you aren't going to "teach" it, no one else will. This is not something that is just "picked up", but is taught. I don't expect a seat to be given up, but I have taught my children (2 girls and 1 boy) to give them up when they see it is truly needed They also have been taught to hold open doors for those behind them, and to say please, thank you & excuse me, it is all part of the manners package.

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

If I'm on a bus and I see someone that looks like they need a seat, I will get up and give them my seat. However to expect to walk on a bus and have someone get up so you can sit is not realistic. If you want to be assured a seat, either rent a car or wait for a bus when you can sit. Don't expect someone to get up so you can sit.

 

[IHaveAFatCat]

many a 60 something express their sadness about their inability to offer up their seat.

60 something isn't that old! I sure as heck hope I can still stand on a bus and let someone else take my seat at that age.