Screaming children will not be tolerated!

[hentob]

Finally, other shoppers have the option of moving away -- they can go to another aisle for 3 to 5 minutes.

Or YOU (the one with the screaming child) can go out to your car for 3-5 minutes while your child calms down

 

[okeydokey]

I think that the grocery store and a restaurant are really different things. First of all, a restaurant is a luxury -- noone NEEDS to eat in a restaurant, even if you're completely out of food, and there's no grocery stores open, you can get your food to go. Second of all, a restaurant is a place that's designed for quiet conversation, a large part of the reason why people go to restaurants is to relax and connect with one another, a screaming child makes that impossible. Finally, in a restaurant you have a pretty captive audience. You can't suddenly decide to go sit at a different table, or otherwise move yourself out of the way. I can't really think of any good justifications for letting your child have a tantrum in a restaurant. If they aren't ready to learn to behave you can either not bring them or take them out.

A grocery store, or a pharmacy is another kettle of fish. For one thing sometimes there's a a genuine need to be there. The biggest "tantrum" (or what other people would have called a tantrum) my child ever had in the pharmacy was when his pain meds wore off as we were waiting to pick up a prescription for meds 3 hours after he came out of surgery. He was starving (hadn't eaten since midnight the night before, doctor said not to risk it until we got home), in pain and completely out of his routine, but we needed to be there. Was it annoying to the people around us? Yes, I'm sure it was, but honestly I didn't have a choice and taking him out wouldn't have taught him anything -- it's a pretty natural thing for toddlers to scream when they're starving and in pain.

OK, that was an extreme example, but people also need to go to the grocery store. You can't say "well, Johnny's autistic and it's going to take him a few years to learn how to behave in public, we just won't eat until then". Also, screaming isn't as disruptive to the act of grocery shopping as it is to a date. Finally, other shoppers have the option of moving away -- they can go to another aisle for 3 to 5 minutes.

So, yes, sometimes the best option in the grocery store is to wait out those 3 or 4 minutes, especially if you have a kid who is freaked out by the noise and the lights and the people and desperately wants to leave -- even if it means sitting in a (safe, quiet, familiar) car doing nothing -- which would be punishment for a typically developing kid.

I should add that other than the surgery freak out, my child has thrown 1 tantrum in a restaurant or store. It was in the grocery store and we walked out. BUT, I had a kid for whom I knew that would be punitive (he was also old enough that he understood me perfectly each night that week when I said "I'm sorry there's no dessert tonight, I'm afraid I left it in the grocery cart last weekend"), and I had food in the house when I did it. Other parents have different circumstances.

Sorry no. It's not the job of other people to deal with the screamer. It's the job of the parents to go away for 3-5 minutes until the child calms down.

 

[okeydokey]

I think all of the statements are obnoxious. It shows to me the owner doesnt have a very good handle on her restaurant. Most people are not problems....and anyone who is should be handled invisibly.

Most signs just say "no smoking" or "this is a non-smoking facility." I've never seen "Smoking will not be tolerated." It's just a jerky way to put it.

You can't be subtle with rude people. These days, jerky is the way to go.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Or YOU (the one with the screaming child) can go out to your car for 3-5 minutes while your child calms down

Thank you!
Going to another aisle will not make me unable to hear the screamer. I also find it hard to concentrate (budget/needs etc.) when I have to listen to screaming. It's like it is the only thing I can hear and focus on. I keep thinking "Why isn't that parent doing something to stop that?!" It is so annoying.
People have other options so I don't buy into the "We have to eat!" nonsense. I have yet to meet anyone who has absolutely nothing that they would whip up in their cabinet. Even if that was the case grab a box of pastina from the store and go. Do not do 10 weeks worth of shopping with the whaler. There is also grocery delivery if shopping is truly unbearable in most area. Go when your SO is home. Plan your trip for when your kids are not exhausted and hungry.
I shop with my kids all the time so it's not like I don't get it but sometimes the trip needs to be cut short because the kids have simply had enough and that's okay. That is age appropriate for them. Does it stink to make more than one trip? Sure does but I am not going to shop when my kids are miserable. Kids can only suck it up so much.

 

[jodifla]

I think that the grocery store and a restaurant are really different things. First of all, a restaurant is a luxury -- noone NEEDS to eat in a restaurant, even if you're completely out of food, and there's no grocery stores open, you can get your food to go. Second of all, a restaurant is a place that's designed for quiet conversation, a large part of the reason why people go to restaurants is to relax and connect with one another, a screaming child makes that impossible. Finally, in a restaurant you have a pretty captive audience. You can't suddenly decide to go sit at a different table, or otherwise move yourself out of the way. I can't really think of any good justifications for letting your child have a tantrum in a restaurant. If they aren't ready to learn to behave you can either not bring them or take them out.

A grocery store, or a pharmacy is another kettle of fish. For one thing sometimes there's a a genuine need to be there. The biggest "tantrum" (or what other people would have called a tantrum) my child ever had in the pharmacy was when his pain meds wore off as we were waiting to pick up a prescription for meds 3 hours after he came out of surgery. He was starving (hadn't eaten since midnight the night before, doctor said not to risk it until we got home), in pain and completely out of his routine, but we needed to be there. Was it annoying to the people around us? Yes, I'm sure it was, but honestly I didn't have a choice and taking him out wouldn't have taught him anything -- it's a pretty natural thing for toddlers to scream when they're starving and in pain.

OK, that was an extreme example, but people also need to go to the grocery store. You can't say "well, Johnny's autistic and it's going to take him a few years to learn how to behave in public, we just won't eat until then". Also, screaming isn't as disruptive to the act of grocery shopping as it is to a date. Finally, other shoppers have the option of moving away -- they can go to another aisle for 3 to 5 minutes.

So, yes, sometimes the best option in the grocery store is to wait out those 3 or 4 minutes, especially if you have a kid who is freaked out by the noise and the lights and the people and desperately wants to leave -- even if it means sitting in a (safe, quiet, familiar) car doing nothing -- which would be punishment for a typically developing kid.

I should add that other than the surgery freak out, my child has thrown 1 tantrum in a restaurant or store. It was in the grocery store and we walked out. BUT, I had a kid for whom I knew that would be punitive (he was also old enough that he understood me perfectly each night that week when I said "I'm sorry there's no dessert tonight, I'm afraid I left it in the grocery cart last weekend"), and I had food in the house when I did it. Other parents have different circumstances.

Yes, I agree.

Good post, even the majority of the perfect parents out there won't agree.

Single parents in particular are often stuck. Most of them can't afford to get a babysitter every time they need to go shopping.

Again, I see very little of this behavior that is apparently so rampant. We eat out at least once a week at family type places.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Yes, I agree.

Good post, even the majority of the perfect parents out there won't agree.

Single parents in particular are often stuck. Most of them can't afford to get a babysitter every time they need to go shopping.
Again, I see very little of this behavior that is apparently so rampant. We eat out at least once a week at family type places.

No they are not stuck. They like the rest if us have to plan a little better. If you know your kid naps at 1pm then don't go food shopping at 12:30 and think it is going to be fun. All parents face those issues.

 

[jrmasm]

Or YOU (the one with the screaming child) can go out to your car for 3-5 minutes while your child calms down

Doesn't it boggle your mind that some people find this concept hard to grasp???

Take the offender to the car until he/she calms down. This is not giving them what they want because they're going right back to the store when they can act civilized again.

And to the poster that can tune anything out, good for you but that's not the issue. The issue is appropriate behavior in a particular setting. Kids will yell and scream outside while they're playing. In a park, in the backyard etc. I can tune that out. But in a restaraunt? Screaming is inappropriate behavior and shouldn't have to be tuned out by anyone.

 

[Hannathy]

No they are not stuck. They like the rest if us have to plan a little better. If you know your kid naps at 1pm then don't go food shopping at 12:30 and think it is going to be fun. All parents face those issues.

yes!!!

A crying child really bothers me, no crying it out here can't handle it!

And to the pharmacy story (didn't want to quote that whole long post) Uh you were by yourself with the child? And even if you were, Why didn't you go out to your car to wait instead of bothering the whole pharmacy? I'm sure the pharmacy would have even run it out to your car when it was filled so they didn't have to listen to a screaming child. Also why didn't you buy it something to eat or drink or even just suck on like a lollipop or something? Or why didn't you take the child home first or have had the hospital call it in so it was ready when you got there. Don't understand or agree with how you handled that. Others listening to your child scream or cry is never teh olnly option-with the exception being you are stuck on a plane and then you had better be trying to soothe them.

 

[Scurvy]

Doesn't it boggle your mind that some people find this concept hard to grasp???

Take the offender to the car until he/she calms down. This is not giving them what they want because they're going right back to the store when they can act civilized again.

Exactly. And most kids are pretty smart. If you pause your shopping each time they act up, and resume once they start behaving, they are going to realize that the shopping takes even longer when they misbehave. The first time or two they might think that misbehaving will get them home quicker, but it won't take many times before they figure out that being good will actually get them home more quickly. By the time he was 4 my son had a good grasp of that concept. He could be good and we'd finish at the store quickly or he could misbehave and we'd spend half the day there. It's not a difficult thing to understand. Yes, the frozen foods can be a problem - which is why we left the frozen section till last. I have found that grocery store employees are happy to put your cart somewhere safe if you have to leave it for a bit, especially if it means they won't have to listen to a screaming child.

 

[wvjules]

Exactly. And most kids are pretty smart. If you pause your shopping each time they act up, and resume once they start behaving, they are going to realize that the shopping takes even longer when they misbehave. The first time or two they might think that misbehaving will get them home quicker, but it won't take many times before they figure out that being good will actually get them home more quickly. By the time he was 4 my son had a good grasp of that concept. He could be good and we'd finish at the store quickly or he could misbehave and we'd spend half the day there. It's not a difficult thing to understand. Yes, the frozen foods can be a problem - which is why we left the frozen section till last. I have found that grocery store employees are happy to put your cart somewhere safe if you have to leave it for a bit, especially if it means they won't have to listen to a screaming child.

But they could just leave for 3-5 minutes. Oh wait, then the only ones in the store would be the screamer and its parent.

 

[auntie]

We've been traveling to Disney for some 19 years and counting. Our first visit..a 6 week old, 4 year old, and an 11 year old.
I feel as though I've "been there..done that"..a few times and then some. Believe me I'm sympathic to those with little ones. Often I feel sorry for the little ones crying as their parents tune them out and go on with their meal as if nothing is happening around them. Kids cry for a reason! Even if that reason is that they are frustrated and having a tantrum. A parent needs to be just that ..a parent..and deal with it, not ignore it.
I'm sorry..but a good many parents have a sort of "I paid for this vacation/dinner, and if my kid wants to scream..tough on you" type of attitude. I was going to even say "young" parents..but honestly, it's also been my observation that a good many parents these days aren't all that young. They're are in their later 30's and 40's. They really should know better. They seem ill equipped to handle the tantrums that are normal to young children. Instead they are ignored. sometimes..I have to wonder why it is they bothered to have these kids, as they seem to be sort of "trophy children". Something that was expected by a certain point in their lives, so they had them. Some of these kids spend way more time in daycare than they do with their parents.

My daughter is a lead teacher for a nationwide daycare corporation. She has kids that are dropped off in her center at 6:30 in the morning and stay until 6:30 in the evening. You know by the time these little ones (18 mos. - 2 years) get home they are going straight into bed, only to wake the next morning for the trip back to the daycare. They are tired and cranky and often their parents are seeking out my daughter for advice. They don't know what their children eat, (as the daycare provides their food), they don't know when their children nap. They are amazed that my daughter is able to get their child to nap. WHY..well, the kids are on a schedule. Something the parents know absolutely nothing about. She hears absolute horror stories about family vacations when the kids return from school breaks. The sadest part is the little ones. They are so happy to be back with their teacher. Not their mom's or dads. They seek comfort from their teacher, who knows them better than their own parents, simply because she spends more time with them. Make no mistake either...the daycare is all about making money. My daughter has had more than one student who really couldn't handle being there for an entire 12 hour day She desperately wants to tell the parents so. Only she has been told in no uncertain terms by her employer that she is to tell all the parents their children are fine. When in fact, one boy cries his eyes out for hours before his parents arrive to take him home. This is acutally one of the reasons she is leaving this center. (another post all together) She's between a rock and a hard place. She loves her little kiddo's. I'm afraid we have more pictures of them on our fridge, then their parents probably have.


Before I get flamed, I know people have to work. I get that. Really I do. I have nothing but admiration for those families who need two incomes to be able to put food on the table and take care of their families. Only for others it is a lifestyle choice rather than a necessity to put their 18 month old in daycare for 12 hours a day. Then they wonder why they can't control their child or take them into a restaraunt for dinner.

I know for a fact that the children in the daycare my daughter is employed by (which is located in an extremely affluent NYC suburb)..are not there because both parents need to work. Some of the mom's don't work at all. Just visit the gym and the nail salon. (Which my daughter was really shocked to find out.) It isn't a carreer or the need to put food on the table that keeps them from spending time with their children. WHY..did they have children if they weren't going to be real parents. It makes me wonder what the future holds for these kids as they themselves become adults.
Please...make no mistake..I am by no means painting all parents who place their kids in day care with one huge wide brush. I realize there are many circumstances that dictate the need and desire to take advantage of daycare facilities. Only there are families who pop these kids out, because it's expected..or they want the experience of the pregnancy..and then, it's daycare and nanny time. I think these are the types of parents that you encounter in restaurants...particulary in Disney that allow their kids to scream through a meal.They figure they are paying..so everyone else should suck it up and deal.
You can only throw so much money at a situation before you actually have to deal with it. Especially when that situation is your child.

I also wanted to note that there are some great parents out there. For as many experiences we may have had with parents allowing a child to scream through dinner, we've also had plenty of experiences where the kids were great. I personally make it a point to compliment a family seated near or close to us who's children are well behaved. The parents are always appreciative of the compliment and kids look so proud of themselves.

My 2 cents..and we all know what that's worth.

______________________

 

[wvjules]

We've been traveling to Disney for some 19 years and counting. Our first visit..a 6 week old, 4 year old, and an 11 year old.
I feel as though I've "been there..done that"..a few times and then some. Believe me I'm sympathic to those with little ones. Often I feel sorry for the little ones crying as their parents tune them out and go on with their meal as if nothing is happening around them. Kids cry for a reason! Even if that reason is that they are frustrated and having a tantrum. A parent needs to be just that ..a parent..and deal with it, not ignore it.
I'm sorry..but a good many parents have a sort of "I paid for this vacation/dinner, and if my kid wants to scream..tough on you" type of attitude. I was going to even say "young" parents..but honestly, it's also been my observation that a good many parents these days aren't all that young. They're are in their later 30's and 40's. They really should know better. They seem ill equipped to handle the tantrums that are normal to young children. Instead they are ignored. sometimes..I have to wonder why it is they bothered to have these kids, as they seem to be sort of "trophy children". Something that was expected by a certain point in their lives, so they had them. Some of these kids spend way more time in daycare than they do with their parents.

My daughter is a lead teacher for a nationwide daycare corporation. She has kids that are dropped off in her center at 6:30 in the morning and stay until 6:30 in the evening. You know by the time these little ones (18 mos. - 2 years) get home they are going straight into bed, only to wake the next morning for the trip back to the daycare. They are tired and cranky and often their parents are seeking out my daughter for advice. They don't know what their children eat, (as the daycare provides their food), they don't know when their children nap. They are amazed that my daughter is able to get their child to nap. WHY..well, the kids are on a schedule. Something the parents know absolutely nothing about. She hears absolute horror stories about family vacations when the kids return from school breaks. The sadest part is the little ones. They are so happy to be back with their teacher. Not their mom's or dads. They seek comfort from their teacher, who knows them better than their own parents, simply because she spends more time with them. Make no mistake either...the daycare is all about making money. My daughter has had more than one student who really couldn't handle being there for an entire 12 hour day She desperately wants to tell the parents so. Only she has been told in no uncertain terms by her employer that she is to tell all the parents their children are fine. When in fact, one boy cries his eyes out for hours before his parents arrive to take him home. This is acutally one of the reasons she is leaving this center. (another post all together) She's between a rock and a hard place. She loves her little kiddo's. I'm afraid we have more pictures of them on our fridge, then their parents probably have.


Before I get flamed, I know people have to work. I get that. Really I do. I have nothing but admiration for those families who need two incomes to be able to put food on the table and take care of their families. Only for others it is a lifestyle choice rather than a necessity to put their 18 month old in daycare for 12 hours a day. Then they wonder why they can't control their child or take them into a restaraunt for dinner.

I know for a fact that the children in the daycare my daughter is employed by (which is located in an extremely affluent NYC suburb)..are not there because both parents need to work. Some of the mom's don't work at all. Just visit the gym and the nail salon. (Which my daughter was really shocked to find out.) It isn't a carreer or the need to put food on the table that keeps them from spending time with their children. WHY..did they have children if they weren't going to be real parents. It makes me wonder what the future holds for these kids as they themselves become adults.
Please...make no mistake..I am by no means painting all parents who place their kids in day care with one huge wide brush. I realize there are many circumstances that dictate the need and desire to take advantage of daycare facilities. Only there are families who pop these kids out, because it's expected..or they want the experience of the pregnancy..and then, it's daycare and nanny time. I think these are the types of parents that you encounter in restaurants...particulary in Disney that allow their kids to scream through a meal.They figure they are paying..so everyone else should suck it up and deal.
You can only throw so much money at a situation before you actually have to deal with it. Especially when that situation is your child.

I also wanted to note that there are some great parents out there. For as many experiences we may have had with parents allowing a child to scream through dinner, we've also had plenty of experiences where the kids were great. I personally make it a point to compliment a family seated near or close to us who's children are well behaved. The parents are always appreciative of the compliment and kids look so proud of themselves.

My 2 cents..and we all know what that's worth.

______________________

Sure about that?

 

[auntie]

Sure about that?

Yep..and I said as much. You can choose to believe that or not. Certainly, your prerogative.
I believed I mentioned that these were my opinions. I'm not asking that you agree with them. Merely, my observations and experiences.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sure about that?

Yeah, she's sure

Not all the parents who work all day do it just for fun; many do it to survive. Some do it just to have "things". Some parents who put their children in day care twelve hours a day - i.e. all the possible hours - aren't even actually both employed. Other families don't keep their children in daycare the full twelve hours.

Yes, I got all this from the post you quoted.

 

[FergieTCat]

I can't believe this thread is going on for 12 pages.

A child is screaming and disturbing other people in an enclosed environment (restaurant, grocery store, Walmart, etc.). Until the child is mature enough to understand that his behavor is unacceptable, then it's his parents' responsibility to rectify his behavior, either by removing him from the situation OR teaching him what is appropriate behavior.

I don't think that "learning how to tune it out." is my responsibility.

Seriously.

 

[Planogirl]

I was a stay at home Mom for a while and I put DS in a daycare a few days a week. I did it to give him a chance to socialize with other kids. I still parented him the rest of the time.

I also put him in a daycare five days a week when I had to go back to work. He didn't throw tantrums when we went places. He had a total of three that I can remember and those were early on.

 

[worm761]

Yes, I agree.

Good post, even the majority of the perfect parents out there won't agree.

Single parents in particular are often stuck. Most of them can't afford to get a babysitter every time they need to go shopping.

Again, I see very little of this behavior that is apparently so rampant. We eat out at least once a week at family type places.

Being a single parent is a poor excuse to have bad children in the store. I highly doubt that anyone has absolutely NO food in the house and has to do all of their shopping right then and there. I was a single parent of a special needs child. When DS acted up in the grocery story, we took the cart to customer service, apologized for leaving it and left the store. We went back later when he was capable of handling being there. No excuses. Even after we got both of his diagnoses and he researched them to find out about the whys of his behavior, he was told in no uncertain terms were those labels going to be an excuse for bad behavior. Do we have bad days? You betcha! Even at 14. combine autism, ADHD, and puberty. Talk about fun. But we just don't go out on those days.

 

[JerseyJanice]

And to the poster that can tune anything out, good for you but that's not the issue. The issue is appropriate behavior in a particular setting. Kids will yell and scream outside while they're playing. In a park, in the backyard etc. I can tune that out. But in a restaraunt? Screaming is inappropriate behavior and shouldn't have to be tuned out by anyone.

I don't think that "learning how to tune it out." is my responsibility.

Seriously.

As I sit here now, I can hear jack-hammering from a couple of blocks over and a jet zooming overhead. Early in the morning, helicopters (real ones, not anybody's parents) hover nearby to check out traffic for the GW Bridge or I-95. Where I live is noisy, so kids crying or dogs barking rarely have any effect on me.

Moreover, when we don't dine at the Chinese Buffet or Chuck E. Cheese, I rarely notice kids misbehaving at restaurants. The places we go--and bear in mind that I have only one teenager--do not feature screaming toddlers.

I just hope that as I age, I don't become one of those grouchy old people who flips out over the sound of a kid riding a Big Wheel bike.

 

[JoiseyMom]

I never understood why people don't take their kids out of a place where they are having a disturbance . When my eldest was an infant, my ex and I went to the movies. It was one of the Star Trek ones (this was 25 years ago). We were new to the town we were in, so we took DS with us. We sat in the very last row and I was on the aisle seat. Heck the place was sold out, so I even gave DS's seat to somone! Anytime my DS even peeped, I was up and out. No one at any time realised there was a baby there. I watched lots of the movie from the little window inthe door..but I wasn't going to allow my baby to ruin it for the several hundreds waiting to see that movie.

My DH and I have taken out little ones out of restaurants numerous times if they acted up. It is the polite and correct thing to do. When he was 8 months old we were in WDW and dropped DD5 off at the Neverland Club and we went to the Yahtsman Steakhouse. The moment DS started crying I took him outside to the hall to calm him down and feed him. I was nursing, and wasn't going to do that in the restaurant either, no matter how discreetly I do it. They held my dinner for me until I got him fed and asleep.

Leaving a place, even for a short time, is part of parenting and common sense.

Heck, I was once picking up pizza, and DS feel asleep in the car, I called them and asked if they could bring it out to my car!! Guess what...they did. Never hurts to ask!!

Common sense is in short supply these days.

 

[jrmasm]

As I sit here now, I can hear jack-hammering from a couple of blocks over and a jet zooming overhead. Early in the morning, helicopters (real ones, not anybody's parents) hover nearby to check out traffic for the GW Bridge or I-95. Where I live is noisy, so kids crying or dogs barking rarely have any effect on me.

Moreover, when we don't dine at the Chinese Buffet or Chuck E. Cheese, I rarely notice kids misbehaving at restaurants. The places we go--and bear in mind that I have only one teenager--do not feature screaming toddlers.

I just hope that as I age, I don't become one of those grouchy old people who flips out over the sound of a kid riding a Big Wheel bike.

A kid making noise on a big wheel outside and a kid screaming in a restaraunt aren't even in the same universe. One is appropriate and the other isn't.