Scooter rentals now TARGETING the lazy!! (LONG)

[SueM in MN]

I don't think so unless you're going to make sure that kids never see the button. I don't think Tinkerbell or any other Disney characters would say cancer, or anything else is a B.

agree.
I don't know for sure, but I think a pin like that would probably be confiscated.

 

[declansdad]

There are a couple of reasons for this though. I have arrived just as a bus was boarding. Once people are going in through the normal entrance they will no longer load wheelchairs so if I'm not right up front and waiting even if there is room on the bus I won't be able to board at all.

There have been times where I hung back just abit and the bus driver didn't notice I was there. He opened up the regular doors and let people board. I went up to the doors and asked to be loaded and I got chewed out for not being up front where he could see me(well it was a mild chewing out) and even though I was there waiting for a long time I still had to wait till the next bus arrived.

So when you see me roll right up front and center it's because that's what I've been told to do. I've been told that if I'm not there then I'm not going to be able to ride the bus.

I can understand that is the protocol but why should it be that if a person in a wheelchair/ECV moves to the front they should get on the next bus that arrives. On our last trip we had about a 35 minute wait for a bus at MK. This was at closing and the line was long, very long. Yet people in wheelchairs and EVC simply went to the designated waiting area and got on the next bus, usually with their entire party.

I am not saying that this is what you do Bill, but it has been my experience at WDW. How is this fair to the rest of us? I don't have a problem with people in wheelchairs and EVCs loading first but why can't they wait in line like the rest of us.

 

[SueM in MN]

I can understand that is the protocol but why should it be that if a person in a wheelchair/ECV moves to the front they should get on the next bus that arrives. On our last trip we had about a 35 minute wait for a bus at MK. This was at closing and the line was long, very long. Yet people in wheelchairs and EVC simply went to the designated waiting area and got on the next bus, usually with their entire party.

I am not saying that this is what you do Bill, but it has been my experience at WDW. How is this fair to the rest of us?

There are some things on page 12, post 171 that would answer your questions.

 

[chirurgeon]

I understand.

How about "Tinkerbell says Chemo is no Fun"

 

[declansdad]

And one day when I am not doing well in my fight with metastatic cancer - I will have to rent an ECV - I'll probably still look fine - and people will probably still talk....

What if you can't rent one because they have all been rented by people who didn't need them? I think that is what this thread is really about.

 

[tubachick]

amazing. No wonder DH has a hard time renting one in the afternoons at the parks!!!

 

[declansdad]

This is from the disABILITIES board FAQ thread:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=595713


Riding WDW Buses with a wheelchair or ECV

How do I attract the attention of the bus driver?
You need to be where the driver can see you so that he/she knows you want to board the bus. Some bus stops have a wheelchair/handicapped symbol that you can wait by. For "unmarked" bus stops, have your group out in the open (but off the roadway) near where the back door of the bus will be when it stops. At stops with buses going to multiple destinations from the same stop (like at the resorts), let the driver know whether you want the bus or not by nodding or shaking your head.

------------------------------------------------


Now you have raised some interesting points in your post.
If you feel you have come up with a great solution that will be fair to all then I suggest that you write to Disney so they will change their policy.

Meanwhile, fair or not these are the instructions that guests who use ECV's and or WC have been given.

So even though it seems unfair to you it is the way it is for now.

Linda,

I am truly happy that you can vacation at WDW, especially with your grandson. Throughout this thread you have made many excellent points and have expressed many times not wanting or taking advantage of the fact that you use an EVC. I also understand the policy for going to the designated spot at the bus stops. I think there are some queues that would be difficult to navigate, especialy for someone who does not usually need an EVC.

My beef only beef with the policy is this line from your post "let the driver know whether you want the bus or not by nodding or shaking your head." I have yet to see anyone refuse the bus that pulls up even though they realize that many of the people in line may have been waiting there for a longer period of time.

I would never judge anyone using a wheelchair or and EVC unless I knew that they were doing it simply doing it because they were too lazy to walk.

 

[dvcgirl]

When I went to another gym, there was a woman close to 400 lbs. who worked out there. I could never post the things I've overheard people saying about her. Luckily, it was just a few. Here she was, being active, working hard to stay healthy and still facing prejudice and ridicule.

I just have a problem with someone saying an overweight person in an ECV should "lose weight" or should never have "gotten like that" because they *don't* know the whole situation.

No one can look at someone else in passing and tell if that large stomach is a tumor or the result of medication or too many calories. And even if it is from too many calories, no one can tell that that person was not raped or that their loved one was not murdered and food helped numb the pain.

Ridicule and oversimplification will only make a food addict worse. People who make comments aren't trying to help, they're putting others down.

If, as a nurse, you told me this in your office, I would think you were trying to help. You would have my chart, my health history, etc. Someone passing a woman in an ECV doesn't have that information and doesn't know this woman at all, and should think twice because things are not always what they appear. It doesn't matter what the obesity statistics are because the person in front of you isn't a statistic, they're a human being, a variable, and you don't know what the truth is, without the information.

Well, speaking only for myself, I would never in a million years ridicule someone or even let them know that I was looking at them. I have seen how self-conscious some of my obese friends and family members can be about this stuff, and it breaks my heart. I always do my best to my eye contact with people and smile if they do the same. However, I'm human, and so yes, at times it does enter my mind that some of the people I see on those scooters aren't doing themselves any favors by not walking. And I'm being honest when I say that *all* of the physical problems that they have are a direct result of their obesity, whether they want to admit that or not is another matter.

And yes, of course it's not possible to determine why someone is overweight just by looking at them. There are lots of possible reasons. However, let's be honest, the overall trend has been getting very worrisome. Portion sizes at restaurants began to grow in the 1970s, continued to get larger in the 80s and by the late 90s we were up to supersize portions. And our waistlines have grown right along with all of that. Many meals at fast food restaurants contain the amount of calories that one should be consuming in an entire day. And they contain more saturated fat that a person should consume in a week. Do a little reading on trans fats or watch SuperSize Me.....you'll never ever eat at McDonalds' again.

I think back to when I was a kid. We hardly *ever* went out for meals....I'm 38. And when we did, it was perhaps to McDonalds for a special lunch....but it was a special occasion. Or we'd go to a local restaurant....also for a special occasion like a BD. And think about how many restaurants we had to choose from back then. McDonalds....KFC....Burger King, and then there were the locally owned restaurants....a few pizza joints. Today? I couldn't possibly begin to list all of the *chain* restaurants we have today. It's unbelievable. They're *everywhere*. And half of every food dollar spent in this country is spent inside those restuarants and not in the grocery store.

So yes, if I was the obsese person's nurse, I'd have a chart in front of me and know their history to some degree. However, the societal factors that I'm talking about have a whole lot to do with the fact that we're seeing a whole lot more heavy people scooting around Disney these days. And unfortunately, the problem is likely to get worse.

 

[minnie61650]

Linda,

I am truly happy that you can vacation at WDW, especially with your grandson. Throughout this thread you have made many excellent points and have expressed many times not wanting or taking advantage of the fact that you use an ECV. I also understand the policy for going to the designated spot at the bus stops. I think there are some queues that would be difficult to navigate, especialy for someone who does not usually need an EVC.

My beef only beef with the policy is this line from your post "let the driver know whether you want the bus or not by nodding or shaking your head." I have yet to see anyone refuse the bus that pulls up even though they realize that many of the people in line may have been waiting there for a longer period of time.

I would never judge anyone using a wheelchair or and EVC unless I knew that they were doing it simply doing it because they were too lazy to walk.

Thank you for your kinds words.

Please read Sue's post below.

 

[SueM in MN]

Linda,

I am truly happy that you can vacation at WDW, especially with your grandson. Throughout this thread you have made many excellent points and have expressed many times not wanting or taking advantage of the fact that you use an ECV. I also understand the policy for going to the designated spot at the bus stops. I think there are some queues that would be difficult to navigate, especialy for someone who does not usually need an EVC.

My beef only beef with the policy is this line from your post "let the driver know whether you want the bus or not by nodding or shaking your head." I have yet to see anyone refuse the bus that pulls up even though they realize that many of the people in line may have been waiting there for a longer period of time.

I would never judge anyone using a wheelchair or and EVC unless I knew that they were doing it simply doing it because they were too lazy to walk.

The line that you are questioning is from the disABILITIES FAQs thread and the whole thing reads:

This is from the disABILITIES board FAQ thread:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=595713


Riding WDW Buses with a wheelchair or ECV

How do I attract the attention of the bus driver?
You need to be where the driver can see you so that he/she knows you want to board the bus. Some bus stops have a wheelchair/handicapped symbol that you can wait by. For "unmarked" bus stops, have your group out in the open (but off the roadway) near where the back door of the bus will be when it stops. At stops with buses going to multiple destinations from the same stop (like at the resorts), let the driver know whether you want the bus or not by nodding or shaking your head.

People do it all the time at the resorts to let the driver know that they are not going to that destination. That's what the whole quote says.

Also, sometime people who appear to have come up to the bus stop and get on the next bus have done what our family has done many times. If the bus stop is full of people when we get near the area, we don't go to the stop; we wait a bit away where we can see.
We look at who was the last person in the line when we arrived in the area and then go to the stop when we can see that person would be able to get on the next bus that comes. It's not that hard to do.

We've done that with groups of 14, where DH boarded the bus with DD in her wheelchair and the rest of us waited in the line. We all got on and got seats too.
BUT, we still heard some muttering from people waiting for the bus because what they saw was DH and DD driving up and getting onto the next bus. They didn't know we had waited off on the side for 2 buses before they rolled into line.

 

[declansdad]

The line that you are questioning is from the disABILITIES FAQs thread and the whole thing reads:

People do it all the time at the resorts to let the driver know that they are not going to that destination. That's what the whole quote says.

Also, sometime people who appear to have come up to the bus stop and get on the next bus have done what our family has done many times. If the bus stop is full of people when we get near the area, we don't go to the stop; we wait a bit away where we can see.
We look at who was the last person in the line when we arrived in the area and then go to the stop when we can see that person would be able to get on the next bus that comes. It's not that hard to do.

We've done that with groups of 14, where DH boarded the bus with DD in her wheelchair and the rest of us waited in the line. We all got on and got seats too.
BUT, we still heard some muttering from people waiting for the bus because what they saw was DH and DD driving up and getting onto the next bus. They didn't know we had waited off on the side for 2 buses before they rolled into line.

Thanks for the reply from both you and Linda. I wish more people, all types of people, were like the two of you. The world, both WDW and the real world, would be a better place.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for the reply from both you and Linda. I wish more people, all types of people, were like the two of you. The world, both WDW and the real world, would be a better place.

Thanks

 

[kaytieeldr]

I will admit that me "ideas" should probably be filed under the "wishful thinking" area.

Well, no. If you think your ideas through and can show Disney you have a more fair way to manage ECVs/wheelchairs on Disney buses, you really SHOULD contact them.

Oh god, it is TOO hard to NOT capitalize!!!

Just type normally - then use the bold, italic and/or underline options above the posting box for emphasis (if you use the QuickReply option, use the "Go Advanced" button before submitting your post).

 

[minnie61650]

Thanks for the reply from both you and Linda. I wish more people, all types of people, were like the two of you. The world, both WDW and the real world, would be a better place.

Thanks.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I've seen Supersize Me. I even asked for permission to show it to my students (was denied).

I agree with all your points about health and well being, I really do. However, so many people made comments that if these people weren't overweight, they wouldn't need an ECV, or that they should "lose weight". That was my problem.

Just like AIDS, alcoholism, drug addiction, cancer- there are things people can do to prevent them in many (but not *all*) cases, but these people are still completely deserving of respect (like you mentioned) and completely *undeserving* of judgment of their condition. Raise awareness about obesity like we have for other diseases, help children make healthy choices, etc. but also please remember that what anyone affected by a condition like this needs most is love and acceptance.

I totally agree with all of the points about health that you've made, however, any reputable doctor will tell you that proper emotional support is just as important (if not moreso) than knowing what healthy choices are. While following your information could lead someone to lose weight- none of that will happen if the person isn't emotionally supported.

There is a woman who is about 200 lbs. at the gym where I work, who through surgery, diet and exercise, had lost over 200 lbs (once weighed 420 lbs) She is now completely trained in Nutrition, Exercise, all the components of the gym franchise where we work and is doing extremely well. She's even been in the paper. Yet, when she was at the door one day, a group of teens were very rude and mocking to her. They had *no* idea what she's been through or how far she's come for her health.

I think we're in agreement on a lot of things here, but the reason for my first post was the callous comment to "lose weight". I wanted to point out all the reasons why what they thought the situation was, could possibly be a complete misconception.

If someone chanted to an ECV user to lose weight, how would they feel if they turned around and said "I'm sorry my weight bothers you, but it's actually due to a twelve pound tumor on my right ovary." ?

Now, we've replied to each other a few times here, and I *know* you would never do that, but there are some people who might- and after reading their posts, I just needed to point out that there is a whole lot more to weight than meets the eye. I hope that those who would assume otherwise remember that whether someone is 60 lbs or 600, they are still human beings.

Again, raise awareness about the health benefits of nutrition and exercise, but I don't want to encourage anyone to *assume* who needs that information and who doesn't, because that assumption could be wrong.

Well, speaking only for myself, I would never in a million years ridicule someone or even let them know that I was looking at them. I have seen how self-conscious some of my obese friends and family members can be about this stuff, and it breaks my heart. I always do my best to my eye contact with people and smile if they do the same. However, I'm human, and so yes, at times it does enter my mind that some of the people I see on those scooters aren't doing themselves any favors by not walking. And I'm being honest when I say that *all* of the physical problems that they have are a direct result of their obesity, whether they want to admit that or not is another matter.

And yes, of course it's not possible to determine why someone is overweight just by looking at them. There are lots of possible reasons. However, let's be honest, the overall trend has been getting very worrisome. Portion sizes at restaurants began to grow in the 1970s, continued to get larger in the 80s and by the late 90s we were up to supersize portions. And our waistlines have grown right along with all of that. Many meals at fast food restaurants contain the amount of calories that one should be consuming in an entire day. And they contain more saturated fat that a person should consume in a week. Do a little reading on trans fats or watch SuperSize Me.....you'll never ever eat at McDonalds' again.

I think back to when I was a kid. We hardly *ever* went out for meals....I'm 38. And when we did, it was perhaps to McDonalds for a special lunch....but it was a special occasion. Or we'd go to a local restaurant....also for a special occasion like a BD. And think about how many restaurants we had to choose from back then. McDonalds....KFC....Burger King, and then there were the locally owned restaurants....a few pizza joints. Today? I couldn't possibly begin to list all of the *chain* restaurants we have today. It's unbelievable. They're *everywhere*. And half of every food dollar spent in this country is spent inside those restuarants and not in the grocery store.

So yes, if I was the obsese person's nurse, I'd have a chart in front of me and know their history to some degree. However, the societal factors that I'm talking about have a whole lot to do with the fact that we're seeing a whole lot more heavy people scooting around Disney these days. And unfortunately, the problem is likely to get worse.

 

[wdwobsessed]

Very nice post LuLu. Thank you.

I agree as well that obesity is a fast growing problem in America. I don't have a medical problem that caused my weight gain but I come from a looooong line of overweight people. So if you combine genetics + environment I had an uphill battle to fight from day one.

Thank goodness neither of my children has a weight problem. I hope they never face what I have had to face in my life. I do worry about them though and know I should set a better example. I try to.

I don't eat the large amounts that I have seen people on talk shows admit to like a dozen eggs or anything. However, I do know that I eat too much or at least too much of the wrong things. A lot of Americans eat too much or too much of the wrong thing ... they are just lucky to have the genetics that allow them to do so without gaining weight. I went out to breakfast the other day and didn't quite finish my one meal. I saw a skinny couple at the table next to me order a meal plus french toast to split ... plus they each got a fruit topped funnel cake! OMG! LOL! Yet THEY were the skinny ones ... not me with the one meal I had.

I am in a constant struggle to loose weight. I never just give up and say oh well ... at times I may stick my head in the sand ... but I never say that I won't try again when I feel I have the strength to do so.

Obesity CAN be disabling. If you have never been there you can't know what it is like. I am very active for someone my size ... but it truly is not realistic for someone my size to walk miles upon miles and not be in pain. So I have two choices ... walk myself to the point of pain where my DH thinks he may have to call a CM to bring me a cart or I will never make it from Italy to the Monorail ... I do make it but I'm in so much pain I think I'm going to die - OR - rent an ECV and enjoy my vacation more because I am not in pain.

My DH made me rent a ECV last trip ... I didn't want to because I was embarassed (the UK jerk on here is a good example of why I was) ... but he talked sense into me because he loves me and didn't want me to be in pain.
So I rented the ECV and everyone in my family had a better trip because mommy was not hurting so bad it made everyone else feel sad.

I didn't get "special" treatment once, it didn't cut down my wait time in line. I got out of the ECV to get into line. I only used the ECV in the parks. I walked PLENTY and got PLENTY of exercise on the trip. The only time I "rode" my ECV into an attraction were the theatre ones and guess what .. they put you in the back of the theatre. Big perk eh? (I rode the ECV in because sometimes theatre seats can cut into my hips ... didn't want to take the chance of hurting the whole show).

So if people are "offended" that I choose to use an ECV so that I am not miserable my entire trip than so be it. I need to use one in order for me to enjoy my vacation for the time being. I hope that one day I will have enough courage and strength in me to be able to get this weight off and not have to worry about such things.

It really is no fun. But still .. I would rather be me ... than some of you.

WDWO

 

[bayoutinksmom]

Congratulations of discovering the cure for obesity.

You must be very proud. By the way, is it one magic cure for all causes of obesity or are there different magic cures for all the different causes of obesity like thyroid problems, side effects from life saving or extending medication (for diabetes, heart conditions, chronic pain, cancer,high blood pressure, etc.) , food addiction due to traumatic life events, extremely large tumors, edema, etc?

Oh, but you know what- that still wouldn't help people like my aunt whose disability caused her to be confined to a wheelchair, so exercise is very difficult. I guess she just shouldn't eat, right? Maybe that's the cure.

Out of respect for my aunt, and everyone like her, as well as for people like me who have experienced eating disorders, I want to tell you that your remarks are shamefully callous to those who *do* fight their weight. They are much more concerned with their health than you realize. Losing weight is very difficult for most people who are genetically predisposed to this condition. I work at a gym and I am a certified Nutrition and Diet class instructor for my gym. I deal with people who are concerned about their health and weight every day. I personally work out five days a week and I still struggle to get to a healthy weight.

No one needs anyone to insult them, by telling the overweight to simply "lose weight" like it is so easy. For most it's a struggle, for many it is a war, and for a few (due to health conditions) it is truly impossible.

On the subject of scooter rentals, I think Disney is in a difficult position to tell someone they *can't* rent a scooter if they don't appear disabled. However, anyone who rents a scooter simply out of laziness, and does not genuinely have difficulty walking is cheating someone who might really need that scooter. We wouldn't need to deal with making laws, rules and regulations if people simply had compassion for others, and did not abuse those things that were meant for someone else. When I look around WDW, I will most likely never know who around me is abusing an ECV unless I overhear an overt admission and I would never try to guess. However, *they* know. And in their heart of hearts, I don't know how they could enjoy an easy ride when someone with a genuine disability might need it.

I am sure some out there have legitimate causes to be overweight and I was not condemning them. If you went back and read my original post on page 3 you would see what I was referring too. Maybe I do sound callous but that might be what some these people need to hear in order to get motivated enough to get healthy.

 

[shellybaxter]

Very nice post LuLu. Thank you.

I agree as well that obesity is a fast growing problem in America. I don't have a medical problem that caused my weight gain but I come from a looooong line of overweight people. So if you combine genetics + environment I had an uphill battle to fight from day one.

Thank goodness neither of my children has a weight problem. I hope they never face what I have had to face in my life. I do worry about them though and know I should set a better example. I try to.

I don't eat the large amounts that I have seen people on talk shows admit to like a dozen eggs or anything. However, I do know that I eat too much or at least too much of the wrong things. A lot of Americans eat too much or too much of the wrong thing ... they are just lucky to have the genetics that allow them to do so without gaining weight. I went out to breakfast the other day and didn't quite finish my one meal. I saw a skinny couple at the table next to me order a meal plus french toast to split ... plus they each got a fruit topped funnel cake! OMG! LOL! Yet THEY were the skinny ones ... not me with the one meal I had.

I am in a constant struggle to loose weight. I never just give up and say oh well ... at times I may stick my head in the sand ... but I never say that I won't try again when I feel I have the strength to do so.

Obesity CAN be disabling. If you have never been there you can't know what it is like. I am very active for someone my size ... but it truly is not realistic for someone my size to walk miles upon miles and not be in pain. So I have two choices ... walk myself to the point of pain where my DH thinks he may have to call a CM to bring me a cart or I will never make it from Italy to the Monorail ... I do make it but I'm in so much pain I think I'm going to die - OR - rent an ECV and enjoy my vacation more because I am not in pain.

My DH made me rent a ECV last trip ... I didn't want to because I was embarassed (the UK jerk on here is a good example of why I was) ... but he talked sense into me because he loves me and didn't want me to be in pain.
So I rented the ECV and everyone in my family had a better trip because mommy was not hurting so bad it made everyone else feel sad.

I didn't get "special" treatment once, it didn't cut down my wait time in line. I got out of the ECV to get into line. I only used the ECV in the parks. I walked PLENTY and got PLENTY of exercise on the trip. The only time I "rode" my ECV into an attraction were the theatre ones and guess what .. they put you in the back of the theatre. Big perk eh? (I rode the ECV in because sometimes theatre seats can cut into my hips ... didn't want to take the chance of hurting the whole show).

So if people are "offended" that I choose to use an ECV so that I am not miserable my entire trip than so be it. I need to use one in order for me to enjoy my vacation for the time being. I hope that one day I will have enough courage and strength in me to be able to get this weight off and not have to worry about such things.

It really is no fun. But still .. I would rather be me ... than some of you.

WDWO

WDWO,

This is exactly how I use an ECV, and for basicly the same reasons. I very rarely take my ECV into any ride. I sometime use it for shows too, because of the time standing waiting in line. Standing is way more hurtful then walking for me. You are so right, most of the shows have you sit in the back. I have no problem with that. I am not looking for "perks" I'm just looking not to be in pain at the end of the day. I think we are normal ECV users, meaning I think there are lots of people who do what we do. I don't think we do anything wrong.

Shelly

 

[shellybaxter]

I am sure some out there have legitimate causes to be overweight and I was not condemning them. If you went back and read my original post on page 1 you would see what I was referring too. Maybe I do sound callous but that might what some these people need to hear in order to get motivated enough to get healthy.

It is not your job to motivate me or anyone else to do anything. Your callousness is HURTFUL (I do mean to yell, you don't seem to be hearing when people just talk) not HELPFUL. Please mind your own business. You are doing more harm than good.

Shelly

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for the reply from both you and Linda. I wish more people, all types of people, were like the two of you. The world, both WDW and the real world, would be a better place.

In response to what you posted, I added this information to the disABILITIES FAQs thread information about buses:
Can my whole party board with me?
If the bus has a lift, only the person with a wheelchair and one other member of your party may go on the lift.
As for the other members of your party, please be considerate of other guests who are waiting for the bus. In general, WDW considers a party of 6 (5 plus the person with a wheelchair/ECV) to be party. If there are few people waiting for the bus when you arrive with a party of that size or smaller, the bus driver may invite you to go on the bus after the wheelchair/ECV is loaded.
If your party is larger or you can see a long line of people waiting for the bus when you pull up, it's considerate to have the other members wait in line for the bus or to have your whole party wait for the next bus.
It will be much easier and less stress for everyone if you can avoid taking the buses at the busiest times (like right at park closing). Taking a leisurely stroll out of the park will usually help you avoid a long line at the bus stop.

If you get to the bus stop and see a long line, here are some considerate ways my family (SueM in MN) have used to handle it:
If you have a small party; keep track of the last person in line when you arrive in the area. Wait off to the side until you can see that party would get onto the next bus (you don't have to wait until they get to the door of the bus), then go to the wheelchair boarding area with your party .
If your party is larger, have the other members of your party get into line. When you can see that they would be able to get onto the next bus, then go to the wheelchair boarding area.