Scooter issues again

[honugirl]

Scuba, you want my scooter, you can have it. But you have to take my brain tumor, my adrenal tumors, my rare disease, all the surgeries, blood work, doctor's visits, fatigue, joint pain, medications, etc. Fair enough? I'd give anything to walk because I can actually see and do MORE without the stupid scooter.

A bus can hold a lot of people but it can only hold 2 (two) scooters/wheelchairs on board. You do the math. I sit in the parks for an hour to an hour and a half after closing so I don't have to deal with people like you that think I'm getting some sort of "perk". I'm not. Next time try parking my scooter on a bus while hundreds of people give you dirty looks and say nasty things.

I dare you to go to WalMart or Target next Christmas and get in a scooter there, do all your shopping sitting down in a big crowd. See how wonderful it is staring at people's rear ends all day and trying to watch out for oblivious people who stop or dart out in front of you, then scream at you to "watch out".

Have a magical day.

 

[goofy4tink]

Alrighty then.....it's been awhile since we've been down this road.
So....
1. Do people abuse the wheelchair/ECV system at WDW? Yes, of course they do.
2. Should Disney do something about it?? What could they do about it? There are federal laws that prevent us from questioning people about their 'disability'...we just have to trust that people are honest.
3. What can we do?? We can only hope that karma comes along at some point and bites these abusers in the butts.

I have been with guests who truly needed an ECV. It was eye-opening. This person wave2 behaved exactly as we all would hope someone in an ECV would behave. But, it was amazing to see how others treated her...truly eye-opening.
For the most part, those in ECVs/wheelchairs, use the system as it's meant to be used. Scuba, you give some good instances of abuse...and we all feel your annoyance. But....don't forget that there are going to be those who's disabilities are not going to be all that obvious to us. I know that my dad looks very able bodied. But he can't walk for long distances, so if at WDW he would greatly benefit from ECV use. But when he got to an attraction and hopped off, he would 'look' like he was abusing the system. Of course, there is no way he would use a 'handicap' entrance to an attraction....but there just aren't all that many of them in existence anymore.
You could be in the position of an elderly couple I ran into in August. There they sat, a nice couple in their 80's, at the MK bus stops, waiting for their bus back to their resort. They had already been waiting for 30 mins. A bus had come along but was unable to take them due to the lift system being out of whack. Another bus came along, while we stood there and waited with them, talking...again, weren't able to get on the bus due to system failure. The line was long, so we waited with them, for a third bus to come along. Those poor people had to wait close to an hour before a bus came that could accomodate them..in the searing August heat/humidity. Were they abusing the system? No....they had real disabilities. They certainly weren't given preferntial treatment. If anything, they were discriminated against.

This is a common thought.....change the system so that those needing special assistence don't impact the rest of us. Give 'them' special buses, or 'buttons' to push. We always have the right to rent a car if we feel that our needs are not going to be met by using Disney transportation. That transportation system needs to legally meet the needs of the vast majority of guests. It is NOT going to be perfect for everyone. While most of us can understand how you feel, we don't appreciate the tone of your post. It comes off as unfeeling and somewhat nasty.....'why should I have to move my family so that some system abusing people can take our seats' more or less. There is signage that tells you that you may be asked to give up those seats. I always avoid sitting there just for that reason. You are always free to wait for the next bus in order to secure seating for your family.

So...in the interest of better understanding, I am going to leave this thread open. BUT...I will be watching. If I see any slight bit of nastiness, it will be closed and points given. A polite discussion is the best way to make our feelings and way of thinking known to others, so that they can possibly see things from another position. Let's keep that in mind.

 

[dburg30]

Scuba,

I do understand your frustration, BUT, I truly believe that the vast majority of the folks using scooters or other assistance devices do need them to be able to enjoy time at WDW. If it was, say, just a grocery store they were going to, even a larger one, you can usually park fairly close, even without a blue card to be able to use the handicap spots. They probably even shop without using a scooter, BUT, we all know at WDW there are VERY few things that are 'close'.

The #2 point in Goofy4tinks post really sums it up. You can not legally ask someone what their illness is.

For those that are abusing the system, #3 is all you can hope for.

I have NO problem allowing people in scooters getting the seats assigned for them even if there are people already on the bus.

But, and this is the sad part, it kind of goes with the 'few bad apples' thing. I dont think anyone can truly believe there isnt abuse. Also I dont think there is anyone that says that certain folks that use the scooters arent exactly careful / caring when they use them. If they run into you, they look at you like it's your fault. Same with just about everything else. Once people run into the 'bad apples' it's just human nature, good or bad, to be leary about folks using them that 'appear' to be just fine. Your mind just cant help but to question if that person really needs it. Not saying it's right or wrong.

 

[Sleepy]

.....we don't appreciate the tone of your post. It comes off as unfeeling and somewhat nasty.....

The wording of the thread title and the first sentence of the original post did it for me. They seem to indicate annoyance, inconvenience, and intolerance.

 

[LSchrow]

we've been to WDW many times, both with and without a member of our party on a scooter.
bottom line is life is much easier, waits are much shorter, and people are much nicer (many, but not all, thank goodness) when without a scooter.
unfortunately, a disability isn't a choice. keeping a child out past their bedtime is.

any one in my family who is able will always offer our seat first to the handicapped or elderly, then to a parent holding a child. simply, we try to respect others


curious......i wonder if op ever offered their seat to another, since it is highly doubtful they were holding a sleeping child every single bus ride of every single day of their trip.....

 

[scuba]

As always with these types of threads, I'm offering a 'ride along' for those thinking there are so many "perks" combined with doing WDW on wheels. I'll be down at WDW again this fall for 3 weeks.

As Bavaria already pointed out, some folks seem to view having kids and staying past their limits as a disability. I'm not the worst person around, so as a one time limited offer this time I will offer this 'ride along' without my usual one demand that the person 'riding along' does it on wheels. This time only; 'ride along' while walking, but we will do things the 'wheelie way'.

Oh come on, who can resist all of those lovely 'perks'? Nobody, right? My PM-box is open for willing takers.

I would actually take you up on this, October 5th through the 10th or so maybe the 11th. Caribbean beach, There most certainly are perks for those that misuse the system, we spoke with a CM at the entrance to Epcot and they have attempted to correct some of the misuses. I would In a heart beat soend a few hours with you.

 

[kaytieeldr]

My example that you asked for would be at Peter Pan's Flight On Tuesday, I actually had parked a sleeping child in our stroller near the standby-fastpass-handicapped entrance. I was talking to a manager and was waiting for my wife and daughter to exit because the manager had a pin on his lanyard i was sure Hannah would want to trade for when several scooters pulled up behind me. They all jumped out of their motorized thingys and entered through the handicapped entrance and into the fastpass line. Of interest, the manager I was speaking with asked the scooter riders if they felt they would have problems with the ride because the ride travels at a different speed and cannot be stopped/slowed down, and the scooter riders stated that they would be fine. I understand that short walking stints for folks that need scooters can be possible but they had the appearance to this grouchy old ER nurse to be fine.

Well, it's good to see that you realize that simply because in your opinion the ECV users are "fine" does not make them so. You have ABSOLUTELY NO idea of what any individual's exact abilities, disabilities, or needs are - unless you ARE that individual. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and cite, "Judge not lest ye be judged".

You left out an important piece of information in relating the manager's statement. Without even being there, I know the statement would have actually been "the manager I was speaking with asked the scooter riders if they felt they would have problems with the ride because the ride travels at a different speed than the loading platform/belt and cannot be stopped/slowed down"

My second example only takes us across the walkwaly to it's a small world. folks in scooters travel down the exits and board the boats from the other side, well before folks waiting in line.

Well, that may be what happened when you were waiting. Last time I went on It's a Small World, yes, I used the designated wheelchair entrance because the standard queue is not designed to accommodate wheelchairs. There wasn't a long line on that side, and there was no line on my side. Well, one party in front of me, but that's not a line, right? There's ONE boat that's wheelchair/ecv accessible, so I had to wait until it got to the loading platform, and that other part made its circuit through the attraction, before I could ride. The standard queue, meanwhile? Most likely, people who'd entered the building the same time I did had time to hit TWO more attractions before I even left the building.

Yes, I'm relating my experience - but I'm not complaining about it because I know Disney does its best to make the park EQUALLY ACCESSIBLE for all Guests.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I would actually take you up on this, October 5th through the 10th or so maybe the 11th. Caribbean beach, There most certainly are perks for those that misuse the system, we spoke with a CM at the entrance to Epcot and they have attempted to correct some of the misuses. I would In a heart beat soend a few hours with you.

You are on. At the moment we're booked at CBR, checking out in the early hours of Oct. 7th. Just a warning though; a few hours IS a full parkday. You can PM me for more details.

Again; you are hyperfocussing on misuse and a very occasional perk. Sure, there can be an occasional earlier boarding a bus or ride, but in no way will it outweigh the longer waits and other time consuming things that come along with wheeling around. Don't get me wrong; it doesn't have to. I'm gratefull to be able to travel to a place like WDW where focus is on being accessible for all, coming from a place that would let me go front of the line all of the time and reduce fees I'ld pay for amusementparks etc. Nice 'perks', when you consider those truely needing the wheels find 99% of things totally inaccessble anyway.

Sometimes it just gets very old and at times even annoying that those walking around judge based with a lack of knowledge and can act accordingly.

 

[scuba]

Scuba, you want my scooter, you can have it. But you have to take my brain tumor, my adrenal tumors, my rare disease, all the surgeries, blood work, doctor's visits, fatigue, joint pain, medications, etc. Fair enough? I'd give anything to walk because I can actually see and do MORE without the stupid scooter.

A bus can hold a lot of people but it can only hold 2 (two) scooters/wheelchairs on board. You do the math. I sit in the parks for an hour to an hour and a half after closing so I don't have to deal with people like you that think I'm getting some sort of "perk". I'm not. Next time try parking my scooter on a bus while hundreds of people give you dirty looks and say nasty things.

I dare you to go to WalMart or Target next Christmas and get in a scooter there, do all your shopping sitting down in a big crowd. See how wonderful it is staring at people's rear ends all day and trying to watch out for oblivious people who stop or dart out in front of you, then scream at you to "watch out".

Have a magical day.

This is just as ridiculous a reply as some have said my thread is, but it's the same every time the thread comes up. Brain tumor, ventilators, amputations.....I get them, 15 years as an ER nurse, No I have no intentions of trading with you. There are clearly indications for some folks to use scooters, sounds like you qualify. In the case of the woman pushing her own unpowered wheelchair onto a bus with her ankle BOO BOO wrapped up with an ace......not so much. hours later at AK we saw her still pushing said Wheelchair.

I'm not the only person that is tired of misuse, It appears by the Dirty looks you get while loading I'm not the only person that thinks this way from time to time.

I'll give you an example of a scooter rider nearly running over our daughter at small world for every example you give me of folks darting in front of your ECV.

Again, if you are more than willing to admit the reasons why you have a scooter, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for CM to ask the reasonings for you to have one at WDW. Whats the big deal? "Madam, welcome to WDW, may I ask why you need assistance with a scooter"? Sounds pretty up front to me. The CMs not being nosy, Trying to curb misuse. I would hope you would want folks not to misuse the syatem at YOUR expense. My story is similar in the ER. We are seeing a huge increase in perscription drug seeking and misuse. We are being asked by administrators to not question a patients pain, but then Amemerica complains about the drug problems we have here? because we are afraid that some one will be offended.

It didn't take long to have someone chime in with a "Walk in my shoes" post. I'm not talking about the folks that need the scooters, I'm talking about the suspected misuse and the apparent lack of following the policies by CMs

 

[kaytieeldr]

These things I have seen with my own eyes, I would applaud anyone sending an able bodied person to wait in line for scooter riders, I would love that. I have never seen a scooter ever in a standard q line.

You've "never seen" is different from you've "never noticed". Unless you spend your time solely in Fantasyland - and even there, Cinderella's Golden Carrousel, Mickey's PhilharMagic, and probably Dumbo and the teacups, are mainstreamed, i.e. HAVE only one line for everyone.

When wheelchair/ECV users are directed to a different queue/entrance, it's ONLY because the standard queue can't accommodate the wheels - ECVs can't FIT through the turnstiles at Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean (and the latter requires Guests to transfer to a wheelchair, it DOESN'T give the separate access). Buzz Lightyear, the ECV user goes all the way through the standard (or FastPass, if applicalle) queue before being directed down the hallway to the exit to board - which means we get on the attraction AFTER other Guests who've been in line with us. Laugh Floor, Alien Encounter, Carousel of Progress, all mainstreamed.

Splash Mountain has stairs, so at the last possible moment (i.e. WDW has us wait in the standard queue as long as possible) wheelchair/ecv users are directed to the exit. Big Thunder Mountain may or may not have stairs, but for whatever queue design reason, wc/ecv Guests are directed to the exit.

Hall of Presidents, Liberty Belle boat, Country Bear Jamboree? All mainstreamed.

Speaking of shows, by the way - it's not uncommon for wheelchair/ecv Guests to be turned away (okay, fine, issued a handwritten FastPass for some - possibly much - later time) because, even though there's plenty of room for Guests on foot, the wheelchair capacity has been reached. Off the top of my head, it's happened to me at Living with the Land and Honey I Shrunk the Audience.

There are times that, even though we seem to have been sent to "jump the line", we actually end up waiting a LOT longer than Guests using the standard entrance at the same time because the attraction's maximum number of wheelchair/ecv Guests has been reached. - and that doesn't even count the extra time needed to GET to the alternate entrance. Again, off the top of my head, it's happened to me at Buzz, at SpaceShip Earth, and on that mountain ride in DisneyLand.

ETA: I would LOVE to see the lobby and library at Tower of Terror again - but they don't allow ECVs in the standard queue (because not everyone can navigate it, so it makes more sense for Disney to have the same rules for every ECV user) and I have trouble with a wheelchair on slopes. Last time I did see it, it was after park closing in the company of an Area Manager and by special request. No, that's NOT special treatment - she very generously took an extra fifteen minutes when she likely had actual work to do, and allowed me through the standard queue and into the building.

By the way, in this case, yes, I AM special. I've seen the preshow area twice since I've been on wheels - once with the assistance of a CM, and once during evening EMH... because the Greeter was distracted and I simply rode up through the standard queue . Because I can, by the way, given my unfortunate expertise with ECVs.

 

[crashbb]

Again, if you are more than willing to admit the reasons why you have a scooter, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for CM to ask the reasonings for you to have one at WDW. Whats the big deal? "Madam, welcome to WDW, may I ask why you need assistance with a scooter"? Sounds pretty up front to me. The CMs not being nosy, Trying to curb misuse. I would hope you would want folks not to misuse the syatem at YOUR expense.

The reason it is a big deal is because it is against the law! If you have a problem with this, you'll need to get the law changed.

Are there scammers? Absolutely
Are there those that think that their disability means they should get special treatment? Again, absolutely.

Having a disability does not automatically make one a saint.

Disney, however, has to work within the parameters of the law. They cannot ask people about their disabilities, even if they wanted to (which, for all I know, they do).

BTW - it isn't a q-line. It is either a "line" or a "queue"

 

[kaytieeldr]

In the case of the woman pushing her own unpowered wheelchair onto a bus with her ankle BOO BOO wrapped up with an ace......not so much. hours later at AK we saw her still pushing said Wheelchair.

Well, first, you don't know that she was "still" pushing said wheelchair. You could more easily have encountered her at a time when she was "again" pushing a wheelchair.

Or, maybe she was using the wheelchair mainly as a walker.

I'm not the only person that is tired of misuse, It appears by the Dirty looks you get while loading I'm not the only person that thinks this way from time to time.

Again, YOU DON'T KNOW that it's misuse. None of you do. You don't have ANY idea of the wheelchair/ECV Guest's conditions, needs, or stamina.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Having a disability does not automatically make one a saint.

It doesn't?!

Shoot, there goes my plan of ending all of worlds problems by running down any and all individuals on this planet with my chair, causing them all to become disabled and thus becoming saints.*










* disclaimer; if anybody might even be wondering; I'm being sarcastic.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Again, if you are more than willing to admit the reasons why you have a scooter, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for CM to ask the reasonings for you to have one at WDW. Whats the big deal? "Madam, welcome to WDW, may I ask why you need assistance with a scooter"?

100% violation of the ADA and antidiscrimination laws. No, I'm not going to go searching for the exact laws - since the situation upsets you so much, feel free to Google.

MY disabilities (and abilities) are MY business - not yours, not Disney's, not even my employer's... as long as I can do my job, which my disabilities don't affect.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Having a disability does not automatically make one a saint.

It doesn't?!

No, no, no - she wasn't addressing YOU with that comment. She meant ME!!! Note the 'automatically' part. You're a saint because, among other things, you're willing to take someone on a wheeled tour. Not me. Uh-uh. Too crotchety. Too self-centered. Too AESOP http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35371333&postcount=30

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

No, no, no - she wasn't addressing YOU with that comment. She meant ME!!! Note the 'automatically' part. You're a saint because, among other things, you're willing to take someone on a wheeled tour. Not me. Uh-uh. Too crotchety. Too self-centered. Too AESOP.

And you think I'm offering that out of saintlike motives? Think again.

 

[scuba]

You are on. At the moment we're booked at CBR, checking out in the early hours of Oct. 7th. Just a warning though; a few hours IS a full parkday. You can PM me for more details.

Again; you are hyperfocussing on misuse and a very occasional perk. Sure, there can be an occasional earlier boarding a bus or ride, but in no way will it outweigh the longer waits and other time consuming things that come along with wheeling around. Don't get me wrong; it doesn't have to. I'm gratefull to be able to travel to a place like WDW where focus is on being accessible for all, coming from a place that would let me go front of the line all of the time and reduce fees I'ld pay for amusementparks etc. Nice 'perks', when you consider those truely needing the wheels find 99% of things totally inaccessble anyway.

Sometimes it just gets very old and at times even annoying that those walking around judge based with a lack of knowledge and can act accordingly.

I would love the opportunity to spend some time with you, keep in mind though I'm not interested in calling out folks that NEED The scooters. Use them, enjoy the parks with your families. If you fall into that catagory then we have NO problems with each other, but I won't back out of my offer.

My biggest concern and one of the resons for the thread is I would hope that a ECV rider, everyone of the ECV riders have a heart. I'm being asked to be compassionate, caring and i'm also being accused of being intolerant. I have cardiomyopathy and several years ago I was on a heart transplant list before the development of Coreg, a beta-blocker used to slow the heart but increase its output.

Since that time my heart function has returned to nearly normal. My point is if I speed up time to say 20 years from now and my heart condition does cause me to be scooter bound. I'm thinking that if i'm presented with me and my scooter displacing a sleeping child in her mothers arms, my choice would be to wait on the next bus.

lastly, we diid get off at the next stop, with my sleeping Daughter in Mom's arms, my 4 year old now standing beside me with 2 strollers and bags I felt it was an unsafe situation, throw in the eratic driving of the CM and I had enough. Factor in that a family member of the ECV rider was sitting only made matters worse.

I was aware that we were sitting in seats for ECVs, I also know that at loading time there was no ECV, and the bus was seconds from moving off when a family member tapped on the front door of the bus. I ask all of you that seem to be piling on, how would like me to react to be displaced by a scooter? watching MY Wife and daughter hang on for life till the next stop? while ECV person is strapped securely to tiedowns and family with the ECV rider seated safely? I would have prefered to hear from someone, "wow, that is unfortunate, a rare unfortunate occurance and i'm sorry it happened, I understand why you might have been upset." but instead I get...well you knew you were in the seats...and how about I trade you my condition, and Kids are not a disability.....BS. I was most certainly mad and frustrated and has no bearing on how compassionate I am.

 

[scuba]

we've been to WDW many times, both with and without a member of our party on a scooter.
bottom line is life is much easier, waits are much shorter, and people are much nicer (many, but not all, thank goodness) when without a scooter.
unfortunately, a disability isn't a choice. keeping a child out past their bedtime is.

any one in my family who is able will always offer our seat first to the handicapped or elderly, then to a parent holding a child. simply, we try to respect others


curious......i wonder if op ever offered their seat to another, since it is highly doubtful they were holding a sleeping child every single bus ride of every single day of their trip.....

Good question, I actually never sit on a Disney Bus. I always stand with 2 stollers, I have pictures from trip 2/7-2/10. I assure my wife and children are sitting. The only time I sat was on Tuesday 2/9 we took a long time leaving MK after it closed and we were the only folks on the bus.

 

[honugirl]

This is just as ridiculous a reply as some have said my thread is, but it's the same every time the thread comes up. Brain tumor, ventilators, amputations.....I get them, 15 years as an ER nurse, No I have no intentions of trading with you. There are clearly indications for some folks to use scooters, sounds like you qualify. In the case of the woman pushing her own unpowered wheelchair onto a bus with her ankle BOO BOO wrapped up with an ace......not so much. hours later at AK we saw her still pushing said Wheelchair.

Wow. Remind me to ask that you not take care of me in the ER if I ever come to your town...

I'm not the only person that is tired of misuse, It appears by the Dirty looks you get while loading I'm not the only person that thinks this way from time to time.

Have you ever thought that there are more scooters/wheelchairs/mobility devices at WDW because it's an easily accessible place for those of us with disabilities to go? Disney parks are the only places I go because they are so helpful and accommodating.

Believe me, there is no real advantage to using the scooter except I can actually do a full day of touring the parks.

I'll give you an example of a scooter rider nearly running over our daughter at small world for every example you give me of folks darting in front of your ECV.

Yes, we're all out to run over your daughter... Next time I go down there I'll be sure to post a sign on my scooter showing the assigned point values for different "targets". Was your daughter paying attention to what she was doing and where she was going when she nearly got ran over?

Again, if you are more than willing to admit the reasons why you have a scooter, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for CM to ask the reasonings for you to have one at WDW. Whats the big deal? "Madam, welcome to WDW, may I ask why you need assistance with a scooter"? Sounds pretty up front to me. The CMs not being nosy, Trying to curb misuse. I would hope you would want folks not to misuse the syatem at YOUR expense. My story is similar in the ER. We are seeing a huge increase in perscription drug seeking and misuse. We are being asked by administrators to not question a patients pain, but then Amemerica complains about the drug problems we have here? because we are afraid that some one will be offended.

It didn't take long to have someone chime in with a "Walk in my shoes" post. I'm not talking about the folks that need the scooters, I'm talking about the suspected misuse and the apparent lack of following the policies by CMs

Don't worry, I have to wear my shirts that proudly proclaim my disease so people like you won't think I'm faking and misusing the ECV. I'd really like to wear Disney clothes to the parks, but I can't because I get the stares, whispers, etc.

And whether you realize it or not, you have lumped us all into the same category because no matter what, you're mad at us, whether we truly need the scooter or not.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I would love the opportunity to spend some time with you, keep in mind though I'm not interested in calling out folks that NEED The scooters.

Nope, she understands that. Her hope is that, even on foot, you will finally be able to 'see' the parks through the eyes of a Guest on wheels - that it's NOT the dream trip you seem to think it is, filled with special treatment and special access.

Have you ever been stuck in the photo viewing area at Test Track? Truly stuck? Where every time you're able to move the ECV an inch, a new influx of Guests crowds into the area and nobody can apparently hear your repeated requests to "excuse me" while you try to move another inch without running into/over anyone... only to be reprimanded by some 'lovely' person that, "Maybe if you were asking nicer, people would move" - because your voice has understandably risen in panic as time has passed?