Scooter Incident at Magic Kingdom Bus Stop

[Luckybee]

I think at this point the entire discussion is moot. If a previous poster is correct about the law then we're all wasting our breath/time/etc arguing about it. If the law says scooters/ECVs get priority, they get priority. Period. End of discussion. Anything after that is pointless whining.

The poster was accurate. Here is a link to the applicable US statute .Note part (f).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/37.163

And before anyone says that this applies only to vehicles out of order. Your US cts have interpreted this to mean that this is the outside waiting time for a accessible vehicle period. Just do a bit of research and you'll see that.

 

[DisneyOma]

Plenty of people on scooters have to wait for the next and next and next bus when loading at the resorts. We were well behind a young man in an electric wheelchair (and his family), and 3 boats at WL came and went without him. We got on the 3rd. He and his family were still waiting for a boat that could take him.

The boat situation is quite diffrent from the bus one - a smaller boat cannot safely handle the weight of an electric wheelchair.

The poster was accurate. Here is a link to the applicable US statute .Note part (f).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/37.163

And before anyone says that this applies only to vehicles out of order. Your US cts have interpreted this to mean that this is the outside waiting time for a accessible vehicle period. Just do a bit of research and you'll see that.

Could you please post the info above that you allude to?

 

[pampam]

Disney already has the scooter situation solved safely and efficiently. They just haven't solved it to the liking of some individuals that see the one time a scooter had an advantage and get jealous and grouch and moan and fail to see the other 20 times the scooter did not work to the advantage of the party with the scooter throughout the day. They don't see the times that when there are over two scooters in line, #3 on back wait for that bus to load, then they have to wait for another scooter bus to come. And if they're 5th or 6th, they wait for another one. They don't see that during busy times, buses pull in beside the scooter loading bus and load standard while they're loading scooters. They don't see that often three standard buses can load and take off for hotels in the time it takes to load scooters on the scooter bus. They don't see at Small World where the scooters often wait far longer than the standard line because they have to wait for the accessible boat to come around. They don't see the many other queues where having a scooter is a disadvantage. They don't see that in the morning, because of the slow speed of the scooter, that parties with a scooter in them cannot beat the surge to ride 1. So by the time scooter people get to their first ride, those without anyone needing one can easily already be on ride 2 or 3. They don't see that advantage growing throughout the day. No. They just see the one time some scooter had what amounts to a 5-10 minute advantage at the end of the day at a bus stop and proceed to grouch, and moan about the system being unfair and claim it needs fixing completely ignoring the fact that the person on the scooter likely accumulated over two hours disadvantage on the day. Anyone on a scooter would gladly trade places with anyone that doesn't need one. I highly doubt the reverse is true.

Very well said. Many times while waiting to be loaded, another bus will pull up beside the bus at the stop and double load. WCs and scooters cannot load because that bus is not at a bus loading area, yet 50+ people are loading before the wc who has waited his turn. Also, something I've seen is a bus pulling up and the driver informing us we cannot board because his lift was broken. Perhaps it was. Or, perhaps the driver didn't want to take the time or energy or effort to strap down another wheelchair or scooter. I tend to agree with Cranbiz that the ramp could be mannually put down, which I one time showed the driver. But most times, I just smile and try to be understanding.

And I know some times the driver says he hasn't seen us. They start loading and before I can get their eye, or explain that we have been waiting, the bus is too full for us to load. So we must wait for another bus and hope for a driver who is looking for us and is willing to lower the ramp. This is not meant to be a put down to the bus drivers. I have met some wonderful drivers who have added more pixie dust and magic to our trips that I can say. I'm just trying to express the frustration of being in a wheelchair and dependant on others.

Also , I know it has been explained before, but I must add. The wheelchairs and scooters may be loaded first, but I promise you, they are always unloaded last. So while others are making a mad dash to the security check or their beds, those in wheelchairs or scooters are just getting off the bus.

 

[ChloesDaddy]

The poster was accurate. Here is a link to the applicable US statute .Note part (f).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/37.163

And before anyone says that this applies only to vehicles out of order. Your US cts have interpreted this to mean that this is the outside waiting time for a accessible vehicle period. Just do a bit of research and you'll see that.

I don't personally have a problem with how Disney handles mobility vehicles. As others have said, the disadvantages of using one far outweigh any perceived advantages, and if someone does not want to deal with the issue then having or renting a car is an option.

That said, the statute cited here applies only to vehicles owned and operated by public (i.e., not private/corporate) entities, and section f applies only to fixed (i.e., set path and set times) routes. While Disney's practices may be good guest policy, it doesn't appear they have a legal obligation under this section of the statute.

Note: I'm not an attorney. This is just my read of the cited language in the context of other sections of the ADA and readily available case law. I may be wrong.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Mom or Dad goes with grandma and the scooter leaving 1 parent behind to deal with 3 little ones and all the trappings that go with that?

On our next trip I'm not sure what will happen as it will be just me, DH, 2 young kids and mom... I can't see one of us boarding with her and 1 being left with kids.

Haven't read the whole thread but......whaaaat? As a former single parent, I don't even understand this. Are you both saying 1 parent can't handle the children?

 

[danny1649]

Disers please this thread has about run its course I have posted once already not to be argumentative or turn this into a debate. I will not post again I will lock thread. Danny

 

[emeraldmom]

Let's look at it another way. It is just because it is.

Today I was approaching a red light. There were several cars on the other side waiting to make a left turn. I pulled up just as the light turned green, and it's a solid green. I was making a right turn. So those several cars, who has already been waiting a bit, had to wait while I made my right turn. Was it fair....No. But those are the right of way laws. I'm sure somebody will probably come along and explain WHY the right of ways laws are what they are. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. It just IS. Things aren't always fair, sometimes they just are the way they are. We can hope that it more or less works out in the end. One of these days I'll be making a right, but it may be a different light, and the left might have a green arrow, then I'll have to wait.

And yes, I actually thought about this thread today when I came up to that light.

 

[mrsksomeday]

Very well said. Many times while waiting to be loaded, another bus will pull up beside the bus at the stop and double load. WCs and scooters cannot load because that bus is not at a bus loading area, yet 50+ people are loading before the wc who has waited his turn. Also, something I've seen is a bus pulling up and the driver informing us we cannot board because his lift was broken. Perhaps it was. Or, perhaps the driver didn't want to take the time or energy or effort to strap down another wheelchair or scooter. I tend to agree with Cranbiz that the ramp could be mannually put down, which I one time showed the driver. But most times, I just smile and try to be understanding.

And I know some times the driver says he hasn't seen us. They start loading and before I can get their eye, or explain that we have been waiting, the bus is too full for us to load. So we must wait for another bus and hope for a driver who is looking for us and is willing to lower the ramp. This is not meant to be a put down to the bus drivers. I have met some wonderful drivers who have added more pixie dust and magic to our trips that I can say. I'm just trying to express the frustration of being in a wheelchair and dependant on others.

Also , I know it has been explained before, but I must add. The wheelchairs and scooters may be loaded first, but I promise you, they are always unloaded last. So while others are making a mad dash to the security check or their beds, those in wheelchairs or scooters are just getting off the bus.

Thank you so much for this. I could have written it. The same things have happened to us.

 

[mkla2015]

Haven't read the whole thread but......whaaaat? As a former single parent, I don't even understand this. Are you both saying 1 parent can't handle the children?

No, that is not what I meant. DH or myself can "handle" our children alone.

I don't mind waiting in line, waiting for another bus, or standing on a bus but since Disney does load scooters first regardless of when they arrived or what the line looks like, my concern is being separated from my party.

 

[kaytieeldr]

On our next trip I'm not sure what will happen as it will be just me, DH, 2 young kids and mom... I can't see one of us boarding with her and 1 being left with kids.

The not-always-enforced rule is the guest using the mobility device may be accompanied by up to five guests.

One possible solution is to have a totally separate area at the parks (and possibly resorts with one bus stop) for loading ECVs. The ECV and their party wait in that line - away from the regular queue. When a bus comes, it goes there first and then goes to the regular queue.

The ECV and their party still loads first, but the regular queue never sees the loading process or that people are getting on before them. When the bus pulls up everyone just loads into whatever space is left.

What do you think? While only psychological, would having them load out-of-sight, make it seem less unfair?

That seems like it would create a huge delay, especially since there really isn't a discrete location and each resort bus would have to pick up in the same spot.

If the scooters frustrate you, stay at Old Key West...it could have just been the week I was there, but it was the first time I've ever been to Disney where I have not seen one scooter at neither the resort bus stop nor the park bus stops. I imagine that this is not the most scooter friendly resort, due to only 3 buildings being accessible. I have stayed at every resort on property except Saratoga Springs, AoA, and the Poly, and my recent stay at OKW really struck me as being oddly scooter free.

It's actually fine. A lot of the units are on the first floor. I've used an ECV there a couple of times, but was usually the only such guest on the bus.

There are signs at the bus stops that put the limit that can preboard at 6 (I don't remember if that includes the disabled guest or not).

It does.

Scooters are out of control. I'm going to stick my neck out here.....I say 25% of the people who have these don't really "need" them. I know, I know, you can't tell by looking at someone if there is something wrong with them and all that jive. People have become very lazy in this country.

Even so, that would mean 75% of ECV/wheelchair users do really need them.

The boat situation is quite diffrent from the bus one - a smaller boat cannot safely handle the weight of an electric wheelchair.

The boats alternate: Launch, Friendship boat, Launch, Friendship boat... if vulnerability waited through a launch/friendship/launch combination and boarded the latter, the electric wheelchair guest waited even longer to board the second friendship/fourth overall boat. If the first boat to arrive while both guests waited was a Friendship boat (so Friendship/Launch/Friendship) with her boarding the third boat and him still waiting, it means he wouldn't have bee able to board until at least the fifth boat arrived.[/QUOTE]

 

[mrsksomeday]

 

[mummabear]

Someday soon, an airline will provide flights that don't allow children.

Dont see this every happening. At the end of the day it is discrimination to do so. Not to mention pointless, for all the hassle they are given, kids are hardly the worst people on board.

I think at this point the entire discussion is moot. If a previous poster is correct about the law then we're all wasting our breath/time/etc arguing about it. If the law says scooters/ECVs get priority, they get priority. Period. End of discussion. Anything after that is pointless whining.

You are right about the scooter but not the 6 people to accompany it.
I can see the Wheelchair/ECV rider needing a "support person" and any minors to accompany them but why should 5 extra able bodied adults skip the line?

 

[mummabear]

The poster was accurate. Here is a link to the applicable US statute .Note part (f).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/37.163

And before anyone says that this applies only to vehicles out of order. Your US cts have interpreted this to mean that this is the outside waiting time for a accessible vehicle period. Just do a bit of research and you'll see that.

I think you would find that not to be the case if the standard wait time for an able bodied person was 40 minutes, the ADA is designed to give equal access and specifically states that it doesn't require greater access, which is what they would be giving by guaranteeing a 30 minute wait.

 

[mrsksomeday]

You are right about the scooter but not the 6 people to accompany it.
I can see the Wheelchair/ECV rider needing a "support person" and any minors to accompany them but why should 5 extra able bodied adults skip the line?

Bolding done by me, to answer your question because Disney says so. It is clearly stated on the sign I posted in post 131. Disney markets to families, they tend not to want to split families/friends up so they made the policy that "groups of 6 or less will board first" with the person using the mobility device.

In the end it is up to Disney how many people will board, it is up to the bus drivers whether they allow more or not. Disney is offering the bus service for FREE, we wait as long as we have to as the service is FREE so complaining about what Disney does with their own complimentary transportation is ridiculous.

I travel with someone that uses a power wheelchair and we have been to WDW 12 times since 2006 we have been on many of Disney's buses. We have learned not to go to the bus stop at closing if we choose to stay that long. We either shop a little, people watch, sit and listen to the background music, we just take our time exiting the park. Then we don't have to deal with as many condescending, judging, over tired people thinking we are trying to skip the line and ruin their night. I am sick of the whispers and looks. As Thumper says "If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all".

 

[mummabear]

n the end it is up to Disney how many people will board, it is up to the bus drivers whether they allow more or not. Disney is offering the bus service for FREE, we wait as long as we have to as the service is FREE so complaining about what Disney does with their own complimentary transportation is ridiculous.

The service is not free, it is built into the cost of accommodation/admission.

Disney markets to families, they tend not to want to split families/friends up so they made the policy that "groups of 6 or less will board first" with the person using the mobility device

Yup and many families have been waiting longer than yours. I understand that if the scooter doesnt skip the line then they could be waiting longer than we would since only a certain number can be on any given bus. But your extra 5 is my whole family, who have been waiting, we are tired and ready to get back. This discussion is whether the policy is the right one to have and I dont think it is.

I travel with someone that uses a power wheelchair and we have been to WDW 12 times since 2006 we have been on many of Disney's buses. We have learned not to go to the bus stop at closing if we choose to stay that long. We either shop a little, people watch, sit and listen to the background music, we just take our time exiting the park. Then we don't have to deal with as many condescending, judging, over tired people thinking we are trying to skip the line and ruin their night. I am sick of the whispers and looks. As Thumper says "If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all"

I think anytime you decide your families needs are greater than anothers you should be expecting for them to have an opinion to the contrary.

 

[mrsksomeday]

I have never thought my families needs are greater than others. I don't have 5 people with us either but if I did Disney says it is ok for them to go on the bus with the mobility device. That is the only thing that matters, what Disney says and we follow it.

 

[Boopuff]

I totally understand the issue of the scooter boarding procedure. But what I don't get is the giant entourages that seem to travel with scooters! I always seem to run into the GIANT family reunion and they fill an entire bus! I'd love to see the 6 rule enacted more often.

 

[bpadair32]

I don't personally have a problem with how Disney handles mobility vehicles. As others have said, the disadvantages of using one far outweigh any perceived advantages, and if someone does not want to deal with the issue then having or renting a car is an option.

That said, the statute cited here applies only to vehicles owned and operated by public (i.e., not private/corporate) entities, and section f applies only to fixed (i.e., set path and set times) routes. While Disney's practices may be good guest policy, it doesn't appear they have a legal obligation under this section of the statute.

Note: I'm not an attorney. This is just my read of the cited language in the context of other sections of the ADA and readily available case law. I may be wrong.

I believe that under this law the bus system at Disney would be considered public transportation in some ways, because Disney actually has the same rights and responsibilities for self-governance as a "real" city. This was a deal set up years ago with the FL gov't and Disney.

Note: I am also not an attorney, but this is my interpretation.

 

[PirateD]

I'm also in the camp of "these threads make me nervous to go" knowing a family member will need a wheelchair. Circumstances will allow us to just rent at the parks so we will avoid the bus issue (hopefully), but it does make me sad to think about knowing that some day that might be us. In reality, some day it might be all of us. At some point in our lives, each of us or a family member may temporarily or permanently need a wheel chair or scooter. It's sad that the perception is out there that people in wheel chairs and scooters and the groups with them are only looking out for themselves and are trying to get ahead. I think that they are just like the rest of us. They are just wanting to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation with their family and are following Disney's directions to do so. I hope that this is just exaggerated here on the boards and that in person and on location at the parks, everyone is treated with dignity and respect.

 

[bpadair32]

I'm also in the camp of "these threads make me nervous to go" knowing a family member will need a wheelchair. Circumstances will allow us to just rent at the parks so we will avoid the bus issue (hopefully), but it does make me sad to think about knowing that some day that might be us. In reality, some day it might be all of us. At some point in our lives, each of us or a family member may temporarily or permanently need a wheel chair or scooter. It's sad that the perception is out there that people in wheel chairs and scooters and the groups with them are only looking out for themselves and are trying to get ahead. I think that they are just like the rest of us. They are just wanting to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation with their family and are following Disney's directions to do so. I hope that this is just exaggerated here on the boards and that in person and on location at the parks, everyone is treated with dignity and respect.

The sad fact of the matter is that people are jerks. Ignore them, do your thing, and have a great time.