School Uniforms: Your Viewpoint

[Bob Slydell]

I think you are obsessing too much.

I agree with Mal -- there are some valid arguments against uniforms (I think powellrj gave a very good one for public schools), but I think the individuality argument has always been a weak one.

 

[Crankyshank]

Of course not, but, other than speech, which was limited, and activities, which were limited, what else do you have? I wasn't allowed to have my Tarot Deck at school, so there goes another form of expression.



*sighs* You cannot, in my opinion, show individuality when the rules strictly forbade it.



Breaking of rules. Wearing what isn't allowed, showing what isn't allowed, saying what isn't allowed, doing what isn't allowed...that's the only way it could be done. At least at my school. I couldn't wear my jewelry of Faith, so that knocked out my expression of Faith. I couldn't wear my jewelry of my favorite bands, to that knocked out another expression. I couldn't decorate my clothes, or shoes, or body, or hair...and I certainly couldn't wear an over amount of makeup, for I'd be sent home for being 'distracting'. They pretty much knocked out every form of expressing one's indivudality. You weren't allowed to say certain things, for 'fear' of being caught. You weren't allowed to wear certain things, for 'fear' of it being distracting. You weren't allowed to bring/do certain things for 'fear' of it being 'against the 'norm'.

So, again, I fail to see how I could have expressed myself without breaking every rule.

Ah so every single person I know, myself included, that was able to express their individuality within the limits of a uniform were breaking the rules? Yeah ok.
Here's a thought you might not have considered. There are ways to express yourself without wearing spiked bracelets, arm bands, and pentacles that are within uniform limits. If you couldn't manage to do something lots of other people could, including goths, then that is an issue with you and not with the concept of uniforms.

 

[Ariel Mae]

You are right clothing is a major form of self expression but it's not the only one. And in my experience when you remove that it encourages kids to go beyond the obvious and hopefully look beyond the obvious in others.

Yeah, the watch bands, sure, sure...but if it could be considered distracting, it wasn't allowed, so if you were wearing a bright green (neon) watch band, you were pretty close to breaking the rules.

She's makes funky jewelry, earrings, bracelets and necklaces. She buys scraps of quilting material and makes hair bands to match every color or theme.

If it was 'distracting' or could be considered 'distracting' (or 'funky', as you put it), it was borderline, and it could go either way. Not a chance I ever wanted to take. I wasn't about to be put into ISI for something like that.

 

[Pigeon]

I agree with this, but assuming you need to employed, you'll be hard-pressed to find something without some sort of restrictions on appearance. I agree you are free to keep looking until you find one that fits your criteria of expressing your individuality, but you may get mighty hungry before you find one.

Maybe, but I didn't have any trouble at all. Just because you don't want to wear a "uniform" to work, doesn't mean you aren't employable. I work in an academic setting. If I came to work in a bathing suit, that might be inappropriate, but otherwise, there are few restrictions on what employees can wear. Jean and flip flops are just fine in my institution. One can also opt to be self-employed.

 

[Maleficent13]

I agree with Mal

 

[Ariel Mae]

Ah so every single person I know, myself included, that was able to express their individuality within the limits of a uniform were breaking the rules? Yeah ok.

If you said 'crap', you broke the rules. If you played with cards, expressing your card trick side, you broke the rules.

Here's a thought you might not have considered. There are ways to express yourself without wearing spiked bracelets, arm bands, and pentacles that are within uniform limits. If you couldn't manage to do something lots of other people could, including goths, then that is an issue with you and not with the concept of uniforms.

Oh my Goddess, I give up, I just plain do. I, personally, express myself through what I wear, how I act, and what I do, and that was quite limited during school times. I couldn't express my Faith, but, ironically, Christians could. I couldn't express my art talent, in the Tarot Deck field, because it wasn't allowed. But, ironically, playing poker was fine?

And, when uniforms came around, we lost a good deal of our 'cliques'. The 'goths' couldn't be 'goths'. The preps couldn't be 'preps'. Sure, that's a good thing, but it just threw everybody into the same boat: We're all the same. We all dress alike.

Honestly, at that point, I wouldn't have been surprised if we started walking in single file lines and started hailing our principal. That's how strict thing started to get. And, until you go/have gone to my school, you have no clue how bad things were, how limited we were in speech, deed, and overall expression. They wanted us not to be different, but just like everyone else.

 

[Crankyshank]

Exactly!



You're just not getting it, are you? 10$ a shirt is not acceptable for me. I'm sorry, but it's not. Especially when you need five of the same shirts. 50$ on shirts? Nope, sorry. Not going to happen. Now, 5$ a shirt, five shirts, 25$, that's a cut in half deal. Expense is a great factor in my decision to be 'anti uniform'. 25$ for a pair of pants? Times Five? 115$? I think not. 8-10$ for pants, times five, 45-100$, still not that great a deal, but a better deal.

And, the polo shirts we bought, no matter how 'expensive' still got dirty, especially if white, and did not last, because we wore them, 10 hours a day. And they went through two to three washes a week. I've found that 'quantity' does not express, most of the time, 'quality'. I've had 'cheaper' clothes last longer than 'brand/expensive' clothing. Except in the name of the uniform. I've found 'brand/expensive clothing' are the only ones that last over a year, but as I said, it's not an expense I, or my mother, were willing to take.

And, average out wash fees, it comes out greatly. Not something we personally wanted.

If you think $10 for a shirt is too expensive, then you have issues beyond that of a uniform. and as I pointed out it is a name brand and has lasted longer than 1 year.
Oh and my shirt today is white. Has held up nicely to days a helluva lot longer than 10hrs with frequent washing, and is still presentable.

In the workforce, you are going to need to dress professionally every day. How are you planning on doing that when you refuse to spend even $10 on a shirt?

 

[va32h]

Breaking of rules. Wearing what isn't allowed, showing what isn't allowed, saying what isn't allowed, doing what isn't allowed...that's the only way it could be done. At least at my school. I couldn't wear my jewelry of Faith, so that knocked out my expression of Faith. I couldn't wear my jewelry of my favorite bands, to that knocked out another expression. I couldn't decorate my clothes, or shoes, or body, or hair...and I certainly couldn't wear an over amount of makeup, for I'd be sent home for being 'distracting'.

Wouldn't these be essentially the same appearance guidelines for employment at and WDW theme park? And probably a bank, a law firm, and a few hundred thousand other places of employment.

So...should people lay around unemployed because having any sort of dress code at a job is violating their right to be unique?

Get over yourself. You won't shrivel up and die if you can't wear your favorite accessories for a few hours.

 

[Pigeon]

Serious, if there are any legal types out there, what would be your guess as to what would happen to parents who refuse to comply with a public school uniform policy? Pure speculation is fine--I'm not looking for free legal advice.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Maybe, but I didn't have any trouble at all. Just because you don't want to wear a "uniform" to work, doesn't mean you aren't employable. I work in an academic setting. If I came to work in a bathing suit, that might be inappropriate, but otherwise, there are few restrictions on what employees can wear. Jean and flip flops are just fine in my institution. One can also opt to be self-employed.

See, now, I agree with this, every word.

Well, I'm going to leave everybody to this 'discussion' or 'debate', whatever it may be, with the words: It (obviously) varies. Uniform policies, rules, regulations...they must differentiate from state to state, country to country, county (parish) to county (parish). *shrugs*

There's two sides, well, three, counting neutrals, and there's, like the smoking, and the abortion, never, I don't feel, going to be a 'compromise'. Though, with this, the 'middle ground' is merely dress code, but, hey, to each their own.

 

[Crankyshank]

If you said 'crap', you broke the rules. If you played with cards, expressing your card trick side, you broke the rules.



Oh my Goddess, I give up, I just plain do. I, personally, express myself through what I wear, how I act, and what I do, and that was quite limited during school times. I couldn't express my Faith, but, ironically, Christians could. I couldn't express my art talent, in the Tarot Deck field, because it wasn't allowed. But, ironically, playing poker was fine?

And, when uniforms came around, we lost a good deal of our 'cliques'. The 'goths' couldn't be 'goths'. The preps couldn't be 'preps'. Sure, that's a good thing, but it just threw everybody into the same boat: We're all the same. We all dress alike.

Honestly, at that point, I wouldn't have been surprised if we started walking in single file lines and started hailing our principal. That's how strict thing started to get. And, until you go/have gone to my school, you have no clue how bad things were, how limited we were in speech, deed, and overall expression. They wanted us not to be different, but just like everyone else.

I had no idea saying crap and using tarot cards were part of a uniform.
Different types of earrings, bracelets, different faint patterns and materials of stockings, different colored tops, nail polish, watches, hair accessories, shoes, etc... all of those can express individuality. Unless you are saying the only way you identify yourself is as a pagan who likes certain bands.

 

[Christine]

Honestly, at that point, I wouldn't have been surprised if we started walking in single file lines and started hailing our principal. That's how strict thing started to get. And, until you go/have gone to my school, you have no clue how bad things were, how limited we were in speech, deed, and overall expression. They wanted us not to be different, but just like everyone else.

AM,

I'm sure that your experience is real and I'm not doubting that it happened. But you've also got to think that maybe this school was "unusual" or not in the norm. We've all had lots of experience with school uniforms and it doesn't seem that too many people had such a terrible time with it. It doesn't always turn out so badly.

If you don't mind me asking, is this the same school that had you cutting out construction paper shapes during your AP classes? If so, it sounds like a real nutty school!

 

[Ariel Mae]

Wouldn't these be essentially the same appearance guidelines for employment at and WDW theme park? And probably a bank, a law firm, and a few hundred thousand other places of employment.

That is different. I'm not forced to go into a job with uniforms, or forced to go to Disney. I'm required to go to school. That's the difference.

So...should people lay around unemployed because having any sort of dress code at a job is violating their right to be unique?

Choose to go to a job with a uniform, accept the uniform. We have no choice, in this, because we're forced to go to school.

Get over yourself. You won't shrivel up and die if you can't wear your favorite accessories for a few hours.

It's not just about my accessories, it's...*sighs* Nevermind. Not worth it.

If you think $10 for a shirt is too expensive, then you have issues beyond that of a uniform. and as I pointed out it is a name brand and has lasted longer than 1 year.

I'm sorry, but I don't like to spend extrenuous amoutns of money on clothes I'm only going to wear a few hours.

In the workforce, you are going to need to dress professionally every day. How are you planning on doing that when you refuse to spend even $10 on a shirt?

Actually, no, in my field, we're allowed to wear what we want, as long as we're covered. The difference with the work force is that we choose to go into that. School, we are forced.

But, as I said, toodles. Goodbye. Have fun.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

All I can say is that as a mother I love uniforms! All seven of my kids have or are going to parochial school. I think uniforms (especially with girls) are a godsend. First of all the jumpers wear forever, so they were much better at passing down than a lot of regular clothes. Secondly, no fights in the morning over what they are wearing. Geez dress down days are stressful enough. I also think uniforms always look neat.

I pass the local junior high school bus stop in our neighborhood on my way to taking my kids to school. When I see what those kids are wearing I thank God that my kids wear uniforms!!!

 

[Ariel Mae]

If you don't mind me asking, is this the same school that had you cutting out construction paper shapes during your AP classes? If so, it sounds like a real nutty school!

Same high school at that.

 

[Andy B]

Exactly!



You're just not getting it, are you? 10$ a shirt is not acceptable for me. I'm sorry, but it's not. Especially when you need five of the same shirts. 50$ on shirts? Nope, sorry. Not going to happen. Now, 5$ a shirt, five shirts, 25$, that's a cut in half deal. Expense is a great factor in my decision to be 'anti uniform'. 25$ for a pair of pants? Times Five? 115$? I think not. 8-10$ for pants, times five, 45-100$, still not that great a deal, but a better deal.

$10 is too much for a shirt, how much do or would you pay for a non uniform shirt? Would you have to wear a fresh pair of trousers every day?

And, the polo shirts we bought, no matter how 'expensive' still got dirty, especially if white, and did not last, because we wore them, 10 hours a day. And they went through two to three washes a week.

if you have five polo shirts why do you have to wash them two to three times a week? Do you change them at school?

I've found that 'quantity' does not express, most of the time, 'quality'. I've had 'cheaper' clothes last longer than 'brand/expensive' clothing. Except in the name of the uniform.

I've found 'brand/expensive clothing' are the only ones that last over a year, but as I said, it's not an expense I, or my mother, were willing to take.

And, average out wash fees, it comes out greatly. Not something we personally wanted.

I do not understand this last two lines at all.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

I didn't have a problem with the uniform because I was usually running late, but my school usually wanted me to be quiet and pay attention, which really squelched my individuality when they were trying to force me to learn.

 

[Christine]

Serious, if there are any legal types out there, what would be your guess as to what would happen to parents who refuse to comply with a public school uniform policy? Pure speculation is fine--I'm not looking for free legal advice.

I'm not a legal type, but in our public school system, the *cannot* make it mandatory. They cannot truly enforce it. So why bother.

 

[Christine]

I didn't have a problem with the uniform because I was usually running late, but my school usually wanted me to be quiet and pay attention, which really squelched my individuality when they were trying to force me to learn.

My DD is feeling the same way!!

 

[KikiFan]

Yeah, the watch bands, sure, sure...but if it could be considered distracting, it wasn't allowed, so if you were wearing a bright green (neon) watch band, you were pretty close to breaking the rules.



If it was 'distracting' or could be considered 'distracting' (or 'funky', as you put it), it was borderline, and it could go either way. Not a chance I ever wanted to take. I wasn't about to be put into ISI for something like that.

Honestly Ariel, I've never known a school with as restrictive a policy as you're describing. We've been in 3 different schools with uniform policy and none were as restrictive as you describe. I also remember pretty vividly that the kids in my (no uniform) H.S. Still weren't allowed to wear the spiked bracelets or rock shirts. This doesn't have to be a black or white issue. There is a middle ground between military school and just simply wearing a uniform. Public schools typically have very easy uniform requirements.

And as for cost I agree, that the initial outlay can be expensive. Our first year we paid about $200. But in the long run it saves you money. My experience has been that each year I've only had to add a few pieces and we're good to go. And that Target shirt? will definitely last all year, infact we've got some right now that are 3 years old. The secret is not putting them in the dryer.