School shooting in Parkland, FL

[Jennasis]

And by "he should not have had a weapon", I am actually suggesting that his gun that he bought legally should have been confiscated after his animal abuse incidents and expulsion.

People found guilty of domestic abuse should have their weapons confiscated. People who have made terroristic threads should have their weapons confiscated. Your second amendment rights should stop at the point where you are a danger to others. The 1st amendment right of freedom of speech has limits. You can't threaten the life of the president, even though it's just speech. You can't incite panic. Your 2nd amendment rights should work the same way. If you are a danger to others, you don't get to own weapons.

Interesting note...years ago when I was going through a divorce, my ex threatened to shoot me. He owned MANY guns and was a gun nut. He was quite unstable and very very upset about the divorce and I felt he would follow through with his threat so I took out an order of protection. When he was served the papers for the order, they attempted to confiscate his guns but he had miraculously "sold" them all (conveniently to his brother) so there was nothing they could do. A year later I got a call from the police department informing me that he had applied for a handgun permit which they intended to approve even though I begged them not to. Their reasoning was the order had expired and since I didn't renew it I obviously felt he was no longer a threat.

 

[asta]

Interesting note...years ago when I was going through a divorce, my ex threatened to shoot me. He owned MANY guns and was a gun nut. He was quite unstable and very very upset about the divorce and I felt he would follow through with his threat so I took out an order of protection. When he was served the papers for the order, they attempted to confiscate his guns but he had miraculously "sold" them all (conveniently to his brother) so there was nothing they could do. A year later I got a call from the police department informing me that he had applied for a handgun permit which they intended to approve even though I begged them not to. Their reasoning was the order had expired and since I didn't renew it I obviously felt he was no longer a threat.

Sad and discouraging.

 

[Minnesota!]

Mental health. Mental health.

Honestly, this kid is a PRIME example. He was known to be aggressive, violent, threatening, and a gun owner. They SPECIFICALLY indicated he was not allowed on campus WITH A BACKPACK.

Yet, he was not on any kind of hold or watch list or detained.

Yes, many, many, many horrible things happened in mental institutions and psych wards years ago. However, many, many, many other horrible things (to TRULY) innocent people DIDN'T happen because the people who NOW do those things...were locked away in an asylum. We need to bring back long-term mental hospitals for people like this. Away from society.

This guy should have been locked up LONG ago for his safety, and obviously the safety of everyone around him.

Perceived threats are tracked all the time if you are Muslim, Islamic, etc. Yet, an angry, violent, threatening KNOWN threat has no follow up...more than likely because he was a white USA citizen. *** is wrong with this situation? Why are foreigners seen as the only threat to our safety? When there are 19 attacks on our soil in 6 weeks by Islamic, Muslim, whatever...then maybe they can join the terrifying ranks. But, until then...it's the teenage, white, lonely, depressed, males that should be tagged and tracked. (And, I am a mom to 2 of them...I would HOPE TO GOD that if they exhibited this kind of behavior, they would be monitored...)

I have known, documented mental issues of my own. Including self-harming tendencies. I would hope and pray that if I attempted (legally) to get a gun, I would be denied and flagged and possibly tracked.

Whomever knew of this guys tendencies, issues, threats, and background now has quite the burden to shoulder... 17 people's worth.

Absolutely, effing livid.

Sorry if a lot of this is random, jumbled thoughts. I am just so sad, mad, livid, exhausted, confused, and betrayed.

 

[agame2323]

Mental health. Mental health.

Honestly, this kid is a PRIME example. He was known to be aggressive, violent, threatening, and a gun owner. They SPECIFICALLY indicated he was not allowed on campus WITH A BACKPACK.

Yet, he was not on any kind of hold or watch list or detained.

Yes, many, many, many horrible things happened in mental institutions and psych wards years ago. However, many, many, many other horrible things (to TRULY) innocent people DIDN'T happen because the people who NOW do those things...were locked away in an asylum. We need to bring back long-term mental hospitals for people like this. Away from society.

This guy should have been locked up LONG ago for his safety, and obviously the safety of everyone around him.

Perceived threats are tracked all the time if you are Muslim, Islamic, etc. Yet, an angry, violent, threatening KNOWN threat has no follow up...more than likely because he was a white USA citizen. *** is wrong with this situation? Why are foreigners seen as the only threat to our safety? When there are 19 attacks on our soil in 6 weeks by Islamic, Muslim, whatever...then maybe they can join the terrifying ranks. But, until then...it's the teenage, white, lonely, depressed, males that should be tagged and tracked. (And, I am a mom to 2 of them...I would HOPE TO GOD that if they exhibited this kind of behavior, they would be monitored...)

I have known, documented mental issues of my own. Including self-harming tendencies. I would hope and pray that if I attempted (legally) to get a gun, I would be denied and flagged and possibly tracked.

Whomever knew of this guys tendencies, issues, threats, and background now has quite the burden to shoulder... 17 people's worth.

Absolutely, effing livid.

Sorry if a lot of this is random, jumbled thoughts. I am just so sad, mad, livid, exhausted, confused, and betrayed.

I couldn't have said this better. Well put. And THANK YOU for being honest!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

You wouldn't think, would you? And yet, my state representatives vehemently opposed a bill that would do exactly that. It would have required those convicted of domestic abuse to turn their guns in immediately. Hard to argue with that, right?
It seems that *literally* any restriction on gun ownership is opposed by many legislators.

Convicted or accused? There’s a big difference, and I know of several states attempting to apply this to those accused. It’s already a violation of federal law to be a felon in possession.

 

[DopeyDame]

Convicted or accused? There’s a big difference, and I know of several states attempting to apply this to those accused. It’s already a violation of federal law to be a felon in possession.

I just looked it up because I couldn't really remember.
From my quick googling, it looks like it was "probation before judgement" that was in question. So not just accused, but also not convicted via a trial.

 

[JaneBanks]

Yep. Not only that, the constitution was written nearly 250 years ago. I don't think our founding fathers envisioned this type of world.

We are living in a nightmare that some people seem to enjoy.

 

[cabanafrau]

Simply in the interest of clarity I want to point out that a bunch of the numbers that get thrown around aren't often quite the same as the way they're being used. For example there's been much made of the number of school shootings so far in 2018. I believe two are reported as taking place in Michigan. One occurred in St. John, Michigan in early January.

It involved a 31 year old military veteran who committed suicide in a car in the parking lot. Absolutely tragic without a doubt. Gun-related death? Yes. School shooting? Not quite sure how well the label fits.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Simply in the interest of clarity I want to point out that a bunch of the numbers that get thrown around aren't often quite the same as the way they're being used. For example there's been much made of the number of school shootings so far in 2018. I believe two are reported as taking place in Michigan. One occurred in St. John, Michigan in early January.

It involved a 31 year old military veteran who committed suicide in a car in the parking lot. Absolutely tragic without a doubt. Gun-related death? Yes. School shooting? Not quite sure how well the label fits.

I posted about this earlier.

 

[cabanafrau]

I just looked it up because I couldn't really remember.
From my quick googling, it looks like it was "probation before judgement" that was in question. So not just accused, but also not convicted via a trial.

If that refers to someone pleading to charges instead of facing trial, a plea is legally the equivalent of a conviction -- which is explained to the person making the plea, along with all of their due process rights before the plea can legally be accepted.

 

[cabanafrau]

I posted about this earlier.

Sorry, I missed your post.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Sorry, I missed your post.

'sok. Lots going on.

We've labeled a lot of shootings as "school shootings", when in fact, they should be more accurately labeled as "workplace shooting on a school campus" or "suicide on school campus" or "gang shooting on a school campus". Heck, here in Jax, a few years ago, we had what was labeled as a "school shooting"; the truth is, some kid threw a gang sign out the window of a school bus and some gangbanger shot at the bus and blew out the window. At my old high school, a young lady was shot and paralyzed outside the school, in some sort of gang initiation or retaliation, and this was also labeled a school shooting.

 

[Dumbo777]

Oh, today is the 45th day of the year. This is the 19th school shooting of the year.

Isn't that insane? 19 shootings and we aren't even in the third me nth of the year yet. It's horrific.

 

[DopeyDame]

If that refers to someone pleading to charges instead of facing trial, a plea is legally the equivalent of a conviction -- which is explained to the person making the plea, along with all of their due process rights before the plea can legally be accepted.

I think that's exactly what it is. But I'm not a lawyer and haven't spent a huge amount of time researching it. The bill also included a requirement for judges to inform those convicted that they had to turn in their guns. (It was already law that they had to, but the judges didn't have to inform them of that fact.)

 

[DopeyDame]

I just wanted to add to this that the "bad areas" don't seem to be the problem in these high profile school shootings. It seems to be middle class, suburbia, two parent homes that these prolific school shooters come from. I'm sure there are other school shootings in bad areas but those aren't the ones that make the big news.

And most are committed by white young men. If we're going to hold all muslims accountable for a terrorist act, let's at least be consistent and hold all young white men accountable for school shootings.

 

[DLgal]

Sounds like a sad history for the young man.

Reportedly he just lost his mother.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...g/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

Oh gosh. This kid was failed on SO many levels. This was such a preventable outcome. I hate seeing the part about him being autistic. That community doesn't need this kind of stigma. But, it also shows that when vulnerable populations of kids are under serviced and forced through a system designed for typical kids, the outcome isn't good. Florida is notorious for being awful at supporting special needs students. That this child/young adult was simply expelled and living as a 19 year old orphan with no social services in place makes me so, so sad. Clearly, in addition to autism (allegedly), he had other mental health problems, as violence is not a hallmark of being autistic at all. This kid was basically screaming from the rooftops for help and no one listened. Our society needs to wake the heck up and stop stigmatizing mental health issues and start helping people, particularly children.

 

[robinb]

Simply in the interest of clarity I want to point out that a bunch of the numbers that get thrown around aren't often quite the same as the way they're being used. For example there's been much made of the number of school shootings so far in 2018. I believe two are reported as taking place in Michigan. One occurred in St. John, Michigan in early January.

It involved a 31 year old military veteran who committed suicide in a car in the parking lot. Absolutely tragic without a doubt. Gun-related death? Yes. School shooting? Not quite sure how well the label fits.

I don't think you can discount this man's suicide so easily. He chose to kill himself in a school parking lot for a reason: he attended the school as a child. Luckily, the school had been closed since June but it's not clear that he was aware of that. He returned to his former school to commit suicide and no one knows what else he had in mind or what he would have done if the school was open.

 

[agame2323]

Although the "mental illness" argument can be made. This should also be looked at as an act of terrorism. That's really what we have been dealing with. These mass shootings are being done by AMERICAN terrorist.

 

[declansdad]

This thread is a perfect example of why things never change in your gun culture. Even when people make suggestions for things to change there are always a few people who tell you it won't work without even trying them.

 

[Hikergirl]

This thread is a perfect example of why things never change in your gun culture. Even when people make suggestions for things to change there are always a few people who tell you it won't work without even trying them.

I think it is a bit more complex than that, but I'm sure you really know that.
The few don't make the decisions for the many.