School shooting in Parkland, FL

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The constitution can be changed. It has 27 times, in fact.

It absolutely can and in April of 2015 with the law becoming effective that July the governor, at the time, signed into our State's constitution (though yes not the Federal government Constitution) we can carry concealed weapons without permits or training (the training part I don't personally agree with).

In the words of my former governor: “We’re saying that if you want to do that in this state, then you don’t have to get the permission slip from the government,” “It is a constitutional right, and we’re removing a barrier to that right.”

So yes you're right it can change..perhaps not the direction you personally would hope for.

 

[aprilgail]

How do you hold the parents accountable?
Put them in jail?
Put the kid in foster care?

You couldn't put this latest shooters parents in jail- he was adopted (as are a oddly high number of serial killers) and his father died years ago and his mother died in November.

 

[asta]

For all of the discussion about how this could be stopped by people reporting disturbing behavior - this killer had been reported to the FBI because of his behavior and social media postings. Even this could not stop a disturbed young man armed with an assault rifle. He fell through the cracks of what we think should prevent a tragedy like this.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Perhaps it would add fuel to the fire. However, perhaps someone else would be watching close enough to intervene and help the situation.

We are just discussing possible solutions. I think the answer is some combination of several methods. This needs to be dealt with from several angles.

CPS can't keep up with the kids they have in the system now. Adding these troubled kids to that particular system (the way it is set up now) will not help anyone, IMO. We need to find a better way to identify and aid those who are struggling to be a healthy part of society.

 

[rickybobby]

Report on CNN this am states that a person calling himself Nikolas Cruz posted a comment in September on Youtube that he was "going to be a professional school shooter". A person forwarded the screenshot to the FBI tips office then.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I have another thought that is probably somewhat controversial, but it just makes me mad that this guy is still alive and we are going to waste time, money and resources to bring him to trial and keep him in jail.

In these extreme cases, I am all for immediate capital punishment.

I do agree that with so many deaths and so many witnesses, that there is no chance he didn't do it. (Which I feel is the main reason for the lengthy trial process we have.)

But, I think I'd like to wait long enough for psychologists to examine him and try to figure out why (and how) he did it, so we can better prevent it from happening again.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

It definitely starts at home.

DW is a 9th grade english teacher for a public school in a bad area.

The stories some of these kids have are devastating. The support at home is just not there for many of these kids.

Unless we go round up all these kids in terrible situations and place them in another situation, its impossible to just place it on the parents. I would love for these parents to just "do better", but they wont. Or sometimes just can't.

I just wanted to add to this that the "bad areas" don't seem to be the problem in these high profile school shootings. It seems to be middle class, suburbia, two parent homes that these prolific school shooters come from. I'm sure there are other school shootings in bad areas but those aren't the ones that make the big news.

 

[erin1715]

This was a long time ago but didn't these kids have homemade bombs in their rooms? My son is almost 18 and I still go into his room and "clean up." I honestly don't think my kid could have rifles and bombs in his room and I wouldn't notice. There has to be some disconnect somewhere.

Yes, the mother did say she stopped going into his room during his senior year to respect his privacy. And there were signs that she missed. She was speaking out so hopefully other parents don't miss the signs she did. But, she was also more involved than many parents are. There are so many dead beat parents out there.

My heart just breaks for these families.

 

[MamaBelle4]

David Hogg, one of the survivors, puts it quite eloquently.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/florida...-continue-to-die-if-we-dont-take-a-stand-now/

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

For all of the discussion about how this could be stopped by people reporting disturbing behavior - this killer had been reported to the FBI because of his behavior and social media postings. Even this could not stop a disturbed young man armed with an assault rifle. He fell through the cracks of what we think should prevent a tragedy like this.

Part of the problem is that people can report a problem but a problem is not illegal. You can report until the cows come home, but unless that behavior is violating some law, the government cannot act.

Until that man (because at 19, he is a man and no longer a child) shot up the school, he hadn't broken the law regarding his gun ownership.

ETA to clarify

 

[asta]

It absolutely can and in April of 2015 with the law becoming effective that July the governor, at the time, signed into our State's constitution (though yes not the Federal government Constitution) we can carry concealed weapons without permits or training (the training part I don't personally agree with).

In the words of my former governor: “We’re saying that if you want to do that in this state, then you don’t have to get the permission slip from the government,” “It is a constitutional right, and we’re removing a barrier to that right.”

So yes you're right it can change..perhaps not the direction you personally would hope for.

Tennessee right? I can’t say anything here but I am shamed by what is going on in Tennessee almost at the same time this tragedy is unfolding.

 

[morgan98]

I do agree that with so many deaths and so many witnesses, that there is no chance he didn't do it. (Which I feel is the main reason for the lengthy trial process we have.)

But, I think I'd like to wait long enough for psychologists to examine him and try to figure out why (and how) he did it, so we can better prevent it from happening again.

I would be fine with that. Let him give a statement and some time to talk to him, but not much more.

I am also talking about extreme and obvious cases too.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Tennessee right? I can’t say anything here but I am shamed by what is going on in Tennessee almost at the same time this tragedy is unfolding.

No not Tennessee.

 

[cabanafrau]

This may have already been mentioned (this thread is moving fast) but I've been hearing the Sheriff and others stressing that if you see something, say something. I can think of a couple people off the top of my head who have history of mental illness and post "crazy" things on social media. One of them I'm sure is already on police radar, and yet he's still basically free to do as he chooses.

My point is, if we say something, what good will that do? The police can't arrest someone for posting pictures of their weapons. What can the police realistically do if someone like this shooter was reported? He wasn't breaking any law before this shooting, that I'm aware of.

It may not do any good. However, saying something doesn't have to be viewed in the light of getting someone arrested. Matter of fact, that's exactly the impression a lot of authorities don't want people to be left with, because they understand that factor alone deters a lot of reports because people "don't want to get someone in trouble". Ideally the idea of making a report would be that focus and attention could be brought to a situation with an idea to providing the appropriate assistance to diffuse problems before violence occurs.

I know of a proposal looking to create a potential clearinghouse-type agency or cooperative where theoretically reports of concern could be received and "triaged" through a pipeline according to needs as identified. It would involve law enforcement as one component, but it would also look to involve social service type agencies, school systems and the medical community as fundamental components. Predictably there's a lot of challenges with the idea, but I see the potential for great promise in the idea.

 

[erin1715]

It may not do any good. However, saying something doesn't have to be viewed in the light of getting someone arrested. Matter of fact, that's exactly the impression a lot of authorities don't want people to be left with, because they understand that factor alone deters a lot of reports because people "don't want to get someone in trouble". Ideally the idea of making a report would be that focus and attention could be brought to a situation with an idea to providing the appropriate assistance to diffuse problems before violence occurs.

I know of a proposal looking to create a potential clearinghouse-type agency or cooperative where theoretically reports of concern could be received and "triaged" through a pipeline according to needs as identified. It would involve law enforcement as one component, but it would also look to involve social service type agencies, school systems and the medical community as fundamental components. Predictably there's a lot of challenges with the idea, but I see the potential for great promise in the idea.

I think that's a good idea. It's doing SOMETHING! We have to try something.

 

[asta]

No not Tennessee.

Well that means at least two states are moving in the same direction regarding less involvement in situations like this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well that means at least two states are moving in the same direction regarding less involvement in situations like this.

Apologies but can you clarify by what you mean " less involvement in situations like this."

 

[agame2323]

Why not stricter gun laws?

 

[cabanafrau]

This is true, but I'm wondering what avenues were open to the far-away relatives? In their place, I certainly would have tried to check up on him to see if there was anything practical he needed...but I have to admit that, knowing what he was like, I would have been afraid to invite him to come live with my family.

But I agree that there need to be trained resources for "kids" in this situation. (I put kids in quotes because I know 19 is technically an adult, but our typical picture of a 19-year-old is still in college and still dependent on his or her family both emotionally and as a source of advice in life decisions.)

I was merely pointing out lost opportunities to identify the potential for trouble before the potential led to violence, not looking to point an accusing finger at relatives. I agree with your assessment regarding the lack of resources available for what may effectively be a "kid" in this situation. Circling back to the relatives portion of the equation it's kind of a shame that relatives who knew there had been clear indications of trouble with the kid and knew he had recently lost his surviving parent weren't able to pick up the phone, talk to someone in the social services pipeline and tell them about what they knew about him and his circumstances -- age, lack of education/source of support, loss of parents, troubling signs of instability, etc., etc. Would have been nice if there were a net available at that point to prevent his fall from troubled youth into violent murderer.

 

[asta]

Apologies but can you clarify by what you mean " less involvement in situations like this."

I am sorry for the awkward wording but I am probably getting too close to violating the rules here. I appreciate that the moderators have let this discussion go this far and don’t want to press too far into comments not allowed.