School Related - Would You Do Anything?

[gina2000]

The principal is not "responding to a situation that arose in the classroom and offering an explanation." The classroom discussion should have been political in nature. It would be one thing to offer and explanation in the classroom as to why Catholic doctrine does not support Obama's position and quite another to systematically pull children into the office to reprimand them and to remind them about their duty as good little Catholics. And lastly, harrassment in the playground is not Catholic doctrine.

I, too, attended Catholic grammar school and college 100 years ago. Things were different then. But even in college no priest would ever dare corner a student and preach doctrine. Of course, I was educated by Jesuit heathens so I guess that explains it.

 

[Christine]

They are responding to a situation that arose in the class room and offering an explanation.

Actually, they are responding to a child basically calling my son a "babykiller" on the basketball court and then hauling MY kid in and lecturing him.

 

[Pin Wizard]

I'd wait until your son is out of the school, then write a heart felt letter explaining why you thought the school was initially a good choice for your children, but how THEIR change gradually soured you on it (and by extension the Catholic Church).

I've yet to get my letter out to the Diocese of Richmond. A nightmare after our great school in FL.

Bottom line, if you want to keep the peace with the school and have your son stay there the next 8 months, choose your battles and words carefully. Being a private school, I wouldn't doubt that they would "kick" someone out for any reason they felt appropriate.

I'm thinking they probably shouldn't have had a debate like this on the 8th grade level. High school...I can see.

 

[DawnCt1]

Actually, they are responding to a child basically calling my son a "babykiller" on the basketball court and then hauling MY kid in and lecturing him.

I know its hurtful to you as his mom, and so you need to make a decision about this school. Do you want him to stay or do you want him to leave? I know you have discussed this with your son, but you may want to say; "You have invested most of your school life here at Saint Witchy. You have 8 more months. You have learned a hard lesson that life isn't fair but there will be more lessons like this to come. In 8 months it will be over and you will be starting at Utopia High School and have the basics of a good education". I don't think its particularly easy to join an existing 8th grade class anywhere. They tend to be a "clicky" crowd and once the group is formed for the year, its harder to break in to it. These are the things you need to weigh. If he and you decides he needs to stay, adopting a lower profile will make life easier. When the year is over he can look back with pride at a job well done in spite of the obstacles that he had to deal with.

 

[MoniqueU]

My son goes to a catholic highschool and no I wouldn't go in there. When you accept an enviornment like that for your child you sign on for their morals and values. Currently they have signs all over my sons school for YES on prop eight which will overturn the gay marriage statute in my state. I have no problem with it. They teach my son all sorts of things I might not agree with, but he is there for a superior education and small class sizes and I am not willing to rock the boat over something that ultimately doesn't matter. He isn't old enough to vote so it really has no effect on him other then he is annoyed. I would just let it go.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have not read many of the posts so I apologize if this has already been said.

I would be angry. I am a Catholic and understand the Church position on abortion. I understand a private school having the right to teach their views. I do not understand having a school sponsored debate and then lecturing the students who take an opposing position.

My issue would not be with the principal or any other educator teaching the official position, it would be that the school invited students to present their viewpoints in the form of a debate and then chastised some for the position that they took. What is the purpose of debate i f only one viewpoint is allowed to be presented? Placing students in this position is not fair if there is a penalty for participating. I would be in that office tomorrow.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Yep. Actually I am sponsoring my DH through RCIA and this issue came up with our Deacon in the past few weeks. The important part that he brought up was that the message of God the Creator, not the literal black/white on the page translation. Also, Pope John Paul II before he passed (I believe it was 1998 or 99) spoke about Intelligent Design and the Theory of Evolution.

Our local Catholic High School teaches Darwin's theory and has for the past two decades.

Wow! Just checked in with DS. The only class that has even mentioned evolution was his public school Earth Science class last year. Not in any of his 8 years of Catholic education did they discuss this. Interesting.

 

[Pigeon]

I would carefully consider exactly what kind of "superior education" this school is providing. Critical thinking is a vitally important skill, and clearly that is nothing that this school will ever teach.

I went to catholic school way back when. We had to write papers on controversial issues. I was the one who always wrote the pro-choice, pro-legalization of marijuana, pro-gay rights papers, even in 7th grade. The nuns hated me, no doubt, but so long as I did thorough research, turned in a well-written, well-documented paper and supported my arguments with facts, they did not penalize my grades. I'm sure there were some entertaining parent-teacher conferences with my very catholic parents, but I was a straight A student, so I never got any flack about it.

This school opts to allow non-catholics in their student body. If they expect your children to check their brains at the door, they should say so in their admissions policy.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Actually, they are responding to a child basically calling my son a "babykiller" on the basketball court and then hauling MY kid in and lecturing him.

I'd be calling administration about that one. Sorry...but this is a parochial school. You would think comments like that would get the bully in trouble!

 

[troobabiee7]

I don't want to turn this into a Catholic school debate, but I have a question for those stating that Catholic schools provide a superior education. How is teaching creationism, and avoiding many scientifically proven topics, a superior education? How is intolerance part of a superior education? Isn't a "superior education" one that is well-rounded and based in facts that will allow children to thrive in the real world where everything isn't so one-sided? Again, I'm not anti-Catholic school. Many (I'd so most) of my neighborhood friends growing up went to Catholic school and they were able to disagree with the church doctrine as long as they did the research and were able to support their opinions (as you would do in most schools). I just don't understand the "you asked for this, now sit down and shut up" mentality. Is this really an acceptable form of teaching?

 

[Nancyg56]

If a parent choses a Catholic school because they feel it affords their child a "better education", they have to accept that they will be taught Catholic doctrine in the process. Many Catholic parents, or Baptist parents, etc will chose a school of their particular denomination because they want that type of Christian education. If I didn't want my child exposed to that, I wouldn't chose that type of school. I would chose public school. If the school, the teacher, the principal and the doctrine are not acceptable, the mother can remove her child. Its a free country.

I am trying to go back and read some responses and am appalled that people feel that it is okay to allow students to be singled out for taking an opposing viewpoint in a debate. This was not a discussion in a religion class, and in this area in Catholic schools a student can opt out of those classes, it was a political discussion that the teacher conducted.

Exposing children to the specific beliefs in a religious school is way different than ridiculing students and allowing bullying if that doctrine is not followed to the letter.

In this case, if the school did not welcome a discussion and a chance to see the difference in both sides of this debate it never should have taken place.

 

[chager]

My DS attends a private Christion School. They actually made an announcement that the kids were to stop discussing the election in the halls. Apparently there were some issues between students. As far as I know the staff has not said anything to anyone about who anyone is for. That at least is one good thing I can say about them.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't want to turn this into a Catholic school debate, but I have a question for those stating that Catholic schools provide a superior education. How is teaching creationism, and avoiding many scientifically proven topics, a superior education? How is intolerance part of a superior education? Isn't a "superior education" one that is well-rounded and based in facts that will allow children to thrive in the real world where everything isn't so one-sided? Again, I'm not anti-Catholic school. Many (I'd so most) of my neighborhood friends growing up went to Catholic school and they were able to disagree with the church doctrine as long as they did the research and were able to support their opinions (as you would do in most schools). I just don't understand the "you asked for this, now sit down and shut up" mentality. Is this really an acceptable form of teaching?

It is not. In my area we have several good Catholic schools and for the grammar schools at least, the opposite is true. We looked into one for my DGD and although we would have welcomed the education for her we were told that her parents could choose not to have her take that class. It is clear that she would have been exposed to a Christian education but this school and the one that my MIL has been affiliated with would not tolerate this kind of behavior.

 

[amyhughes]

I don't want to turn this into a Catholic school debate, but I have a question for those stating that Catholic schools provide a superior education. How is teaching creationism, and avoiding many scientifically proven topics, a superior education? How is intolerance part of a superior education? Isn't a "superior education" one that is well-rounded and based in facts that will allow children to thrive in the real world where everything isn't so one-sided? Again, I'm not anti-Catholic school. Many (I'd so most) of my neighborhood friends growing up went to Catholic school and they were able to disagree with the church doctrine as long as they did the research and were able to support their opinions (as you would do in most schools). I just don't understand the "you asked for this, now sit down and shut up" mentality. Is this really an acceptable form of teaching?

Read my previous posts. Many Catholic schools do teach evolution and Big Bang theory, because the Catholic Church has come out in outright support b/c these jive with their beliefs of God. If you Wiki Catholics and Evolution you get a whole plethora of quotes and articles that each Pope has released since Pope Pius about Catholicism and scientific theories.

On the others, if you go to Catholic school yes you should be open to their faith and beliefs. Same as if you sent your child to a Baptist, Muslim or Jewish school. The church has certain beliefs they are very firm on, such as abortion. And yes, because the schools are an extension of the church the views will be expressed to all students.

I am not saying shut up about it, but if you are there for the education and not Catholic, it goes with the territory in some respects.

I don't condone this Asst. Principal's behavior re singling out this child who is not Catholic when this is a result of school room directives. Nor do I think the child doing the bullying should go without reproach.

 

[Christine]

Catholic schools (according to the diocesan guidelines) are to teach creationism in the religion classes and teach evolution in science. My son just happened to get an oddball last year that decided to go against the Pope's ruling in regard to evolution and not teach it. That is *this* school and in no way represents what most Catholic schools are teaching. My DD's high school teaches all of it just as much as the public school did.

 

[troobabiee7]

Read my previous posts. Many Catholic schools do teach evolution and Big Bang theory, because the Catholic Church has come out in outright support b/c these jive with their beliefs of God. If you Wiki Catholics and Evolution you get a whole plethora of quotes and articles that each Pope has released since Pope Pius about Catholicism and scientific theories.

On the others, if you go to Catholic school yes you should be open to their faith and beliefs. Same as if you sent your child to a Baptist, Muslim or Jewish school. The church has certain beliefs they are very firm on, such as abortion. And yes, because the schools are an extension of the church the views will be expressed to all students.

I am not saying shut up about it, but if you are there for the education and not Catholic, it goes with the territory in some respects.

I don't condone this Asst. Principal's behavior re singling out this child who is not Catholic when this is a result of school room directives. Nor do I think the child doing the bullying should go without reproach.

I wasn't referring to you specifically about creationism. The Catholic schools around here teach both creationism and Darwinism. I was just replying to the people who say it's never taught, yet their children get a superior education And I don't mean one or two deviant teachers who refuse to teach it (there are bad teachers everywhere, unfortunately), but the schools who don't include it in the curriculum to begin with. Anyway, like you said, what the teacher did wasn't just something that "comes with the territory," right? It's an outright attack (in the loosest terms) against a child for their beliefs. Yes, the church will teach their beliefs, but is no one allowed to disagree? Isn't the purpose of school to help children formulate their own ideas and find ways to back them up, as we all have to do in the real world? Many Catholic schools (and any other schools of a specific religious denomination) do operate that way, but I really don't understand the schools that don't.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Not sure of the OP saw this, but:

What happened is ILLEGAL. As a religious school they will qualify for tax exempt status. If you have tax exempt status you are not allowed to tell people who to vote for or you will lose it. It is illegal for any tax exempt organization to campaign or electioneer. Churches have lost their tax exempt status in the past for this kind of behavior, something I would be quick to point out to the principal. All it takes is the wrong person hearing about this and there goes their tax exempt status.

 

[declansdad]

It's a private Catholic School - the Principal was informing your son of their views and those of the church. IMO the school had the right. As for the notebook incident, they are middle schoolers, heck they pound on each other all the time.
When I went to private school they shoved God down our throat at every turn, what do you expect from a religious private school? I'm not trying to be snarky, I truly am curious

Wow....just wow!!

 

[declansdad]

OP - I can't believe what you are being told on this thread. This has nothing to do with the Catholic school talking about teaching their values. It is a case of a teacher allowing your child to be attacked in class, an administration allowing him to be verbally attacked on the playground as well as lecturing him because he chose to support a candidate that the vice principal didn't. These people are idiots.

 

[brockash]

Umm heck no I wouldn't let it go. That's completely insane, and unacceptable. Why would anyone want their children growing up thinking they were supposed to be that narrow minded (I'm not saying you, I'm saying the other parents that I'm sure support that school and asst. principal.) I would absolutely complain as high as you could, and honestly (mainly because I don't think anything would actually be done) I would try to get it to your local news/media coverage- maybe that'll cast the embarrasment on that asst. principal and school as it should. I can't believe that an adult would critize a child for his/her opinions- that is NOT what America is about. My DS (6) so really has no clue about what the politics ect. stand for, chose Obama at school as well. My DH is a huge republican, but I would NEVER think it would okay for my DH to criticize or beliddle our son about his choice, no matter if he were 6 or 16. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and your asst. principal should not be allowed to morally (but apparently he has none) but also should not be allowed period do that. That's disgusting. I would pull your son out now, and put him in a place that he's allowed to have his own mind. Good luck to you, and I'm so sorry you and your son are having to deal with such ignorant ppl.