Scared to death by the restrictions on resale pts thread

[wbl2745]

I would never say it couldn't happen because look what Marriott did. I wish I didn't even own Marriott, although I like staying at their resorts. I took Marriott off my signature because i don't know what to expect out of them anymore.

What did Marriott do?

 

[littlestar]

What did Marriott do?

They came out with a point system that doesn't even give some of their owners enough points to stay a week in their home resort if they used points. They skimmed the points.

We decided to add on 75 resale points at SSR (via the Timeshare Store). I'm changing over to more a buy to use than trade these days (although I like Wyndham's point system - but I hedged my bets with them too by buying a home resort I like!). I like SSR and the price is great right now. I'd be happy staying there every DVC trip.

 

[Sammie]

The sad thing is with the Internet DVC does not even really have to do this to affect resale. They simply have to start the rumors.

And Yes I most certainly think their sales agents start rumors, knowing that they will immediately be spread through forums such as these.

I agree with Liferbabe, I think they will do anything to generate sales.

 

[Dean]

They came out with a point system that doesn't even give some of their owners enough points to stay a week in their home resort if they used points. They skimmed the points.

We decided to add on 75 resale points at SSR (via the Timeshare Store). I'm changing over to more a buy to use than trade these days (although I like Wyndham's point system - but I hedged my bets with them too by buying a home resort I like!). I like SSR and the price is great right now. I'd be happy staying there every DVC trip.

There's more to the story. Marriott did not take away any options from current members, they did what I suggested was one option for DVC, they added options that no one had but everyone could have for a price. Current Marriott members can reserve everything they could have before the change. What they did do was that IF you added on the additional option for the points, most members do actually get less points than their week would cost IF they were reserving on points. It doesn't cost them for their resort but it does mean that for a comparable resort, they will be short changed.

To put in in DVC terms based on the Marriott Scenario, say DVC opened a couple of new resorts and made it a separate system. Current DVC owners could join that system using their current points but for a price. That price would be more if ANY of your points were resale, say $500 vs $1500. Plus say you're points only counted 90% toward the new system. That's a rough summary but gives the idea.

 

[Chuck S]

And I do think DVC and Disney watch carefully what Marriott and others timeshares/resorts do. Remember according to several sources, at one time Disney was considering leasing all resort operations (not just DVC) to Marriott. And this years Disney stockholders meeting was at a new J W Marriott Hill Country here in San Antonio.

 

[pmcpmc]

The sad thing is with the Internet DVC does not even really have to do this to affect resale. They simply have to start the rumors.

And Yes I most certainly think their sales agents start rumors, knowing that they will immediately be spread through forums such as these.

I agree with Liferbabe, I think they will do anything to generate sales.

And Dvc management do monitor reactions on forums like this and looking for ideas others generate.

 

[Bob Price]

It has been suggested to me by someone in a position to know more that indeed there are changes coming in this area. ....... It should be fun and would likely make the reallocation and valet threads pale in comparison if it does happen.

Speaking of which... does anyone know when the new point charts will be out?

 

[saphyre]

When I spoke to Disney about selling my DVC I was told that as long as the sale was approved by DVC, the new owners would have the exact rights as the original owner.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

When I spoke to Disney about selling my DVC I was told that as long as the sale was approved by DVC, the new owners would have the exact rights as the original owner.

They can say that, but contractually there is nothing that makes this binding.

 

[AlwaysDreamofDisney]

Speaking of which... does anyone know when the new point charts will be out?

You can get the 2011 points charts on the DVC member website. I got them about 2-3 weeks ago and printed them out at home!

 

[jlewisinsyr]

You can get the 2011 points charts on the DVC member website. I got them about 2-3 weeks ago and printed them out at home!

I think the poster was questioning the 2012 charts, keeping in mind that people can start booking 11 months in advance, so at the latest the charts need to be released is the end of January 2011.

 

[Dean]

You can get the 2011 points charts on the DVC member website. I got them about 2-3 weeks ago and printed them out at home!

I think Bob was baiting the group a little bit suggesting there might possibly be another reallocation in the cards for the 2012 DVC charts.

 

[Sammie]

I think Bob was baiting the group a little bit suggesting there might possibly be another reallocation in the cards for the 2012 DVC charts.

Do you think so?

 

[lisareniff]

It has been suggested to me by someone in a position to know more that indeed there are changes coming in this area. We'll see. It does make sense that this is where DVC should have been years ago and it is reasonable for them to protect themselves now, even at the expense of those looking to buy or sell aftermarket. My question is more to how it might be done than if. The benign thing to do would be to either set a SHORT TERM cutoff date going forward grandfathering current members OR to leave everyone out and allow them to opt in for a price or add on. It should be fun and would likely make the reallocation and valet threads pale in comparison if it does happen.

I think I missed these rumors and I'm playing catch-up. I wish I had read your post back in Oct. I really would have liked to have added-on a resale contract and perhaps sold a small one. Newer rumors on other boards have the date as Jan 1st. If that is true it's too late to do either... at least until the dust settles. It will indeed it will be great fun reading the ensuing thread.

 

[toocherie]

It will indeed it will be great fun reading the ensuing thread.

Should we have a pool on how long it will take the new thread to get to 1000 points?

I have no doubt Disney has something up its sleeve.

 

[zebsterama]

I don't think they can do it, simply because it devalues the entire offering for all - plain and simple. It's the old adage ‘cut off your nose to spite your face’.

One of the incentives for buying DVC is the fact that it has value to others and therefore can be transferable, providing a reasonable rate of return.

By restricting some of its customers for wanting in at a lower rate (i.e. re-sale), Disney will be highlighting more of the obvious; the value just isn't there right now for their product.

If the value was there Disney would be exercising their first right of refusal left right and centre, but clearly they don't, because the value is not there.
Strategically, should they do this, I see this as short term move of stupidity, again to the detriment to all points’ holders, present and future.

For example it would be like an auto dealer who entices you to buy their vehicle because it offers incredible resale value. But then you find out that in fact the value isn’t there – even the dealer doesn’t want to buy it back from you, and if actually CAN find someone else to sell it to the dealer won’t honour the original warranty or service agreement simply because they’re being petty because they can’t enough new vehicles off of their lot. YES – that prospect really entices me to want to buy (sorry just a little sarcasm there)!

In truth if DVC did such a thing, I certainly wouldn’t buy direct – they would be untrustworthy in my opinion.

Moreover if people think the re-sale point market is overselling now – I say just give this rule a chance, watch the prices drop, and drop hard in my opinion. Which again in my opinion, makes Disney’s job to entice direct sales even harder. Everyone loses. The new magic of Disney? Sorry just kidding around.

Seriously though, I see such a move turning into a vicious circle ... almost deflationary like to the entire point market both re-sale and direct.
Sorry don’t mean to be Mr. Doom and Gloom.

Cheers,

Zebsterama

 

[got4boys]

Speaking of which... does anyone know when the new point charts will be out?

The 2012 are up. The points are the same for 2012 as 2011. I saw them on the member site tonight.

 

[Dean]

I don't think they can do it, simply because it devalues the entire offering for all - plain and simple. It's the old adage ‘cut of your nose to spite your face’.

One of the incentives for buying DVC is the fact that it has value to others and therefore can be transferable, providing a reasonable rate of return.

By restricting some of its customers for wanting in at a lower rate (i.e. re-sale), Disney will be highlighting more of the obvious; the value just isn't there right now for their product.

If the value was there Disney would be exercising their first right of refusal left right and centre, but clearly they don't, because the value is not there.
Strategically, should they do this, I see this as short term move of stupidity, again to the detriment to all points’ holders, present and future.

For example it would be like an auto dealer who entices you to buy their vehicle because it offers incredible resale value. But then you find out that in fact the value isn’t there – even the dealer doesn’t want to buy it back from you, and if actually CAN find someone else to sell it to the dealer won’t honour the original warranty or service agreement simply because they’re being petty because they can’t enough new vehicles off of their lot. YES – that prospect really entices me to want to buy (sorry just a little sarcasm there)!

In truth if DVC did such a thing, I certainly wouldn’t buy direct – they would be untrustworthy in my opinion.

Moreover if people think the re-sale point market is overselling now – I say just give this rule a chance, watch the prices drop, and drop hard in my opinion. Which again in my opinion, makes Disney’s job to entice direct sales even harder. Everyone loses. The new magic of Disney? Sorry just kidding around.

Seriously though, I see such a move turning into a vicious circle ... almost deflationary like to the entire point market both re-sale and direct.
Sorry don’t mean to be Mr. Doom and Gloom.

Cheers,

Zebsterama

You might not buy but you already own, many others would buy though no matter what changes happen or how current members feel. This is exactly the model that many timeshare companies use, sell something for large $$$ that has almost no value on the secondary market and they have been successful over the years. Realize that most people don't buy to resell, nor should they. Such a move doesn't reduce the value of owning at all if you buy direct (or are qualified if bought resale), only if you buy resale or go to sell later. Actually many people made the same arguments related to reallocation, the 1 week reservation change and the valet parking issue. While I'm sure some have voted with their feet, it doesn't appear to be enough to even make a bump in the road for DVC.

 

[zebsterama]

You might not buy but you already own, many others would buy though no matter what changes happen or how current members feel. This is exactly the model that many timeshare companies use, sell something for large $$$ that has almost no value on the secondary market and they have been successful over the years. Realize that most people don't buy to resell, nor should they. Such a move doesn't reduce the value of owning at all if you buy direct (or are qualified if bought resale), only if you buy resale or go to sell later. Actually many people made the same arguments related to reallocation, the 1 week reservation change and the valet parking issue. While I'm sure some have voted with their feet, it doesn't appear to be enough to even make a bump in the road for DVC.

Obviously in truth I don't know what's going to happen. I would argue that some kind of tiered point class system would be fundamentally different then say things like Valet parking, but who knows.

I guess - in short - as I've said it earlier, I think (depending on the differences in the tiered service) that such a move undermines DVC's entire value proposition. This IMO could be a real game changer, at a time when buyers of DVC are likely (I'm guessing here) more scarce than ever; this guess is largely due to the realities of our current global economy. I think this could perpetuate that notion, and further drive down the price of the re-sale market which in turn also drives down DVC's ability to charge top dollar to gain new members.

Even the Magic of Disney does not supersede the powers of supply and demand ... but good on them to keep trying!

Just my 2 cents

Happy Thanks Giving to All OF MY American Friends!

Cheers,
Zebsterama

 

[TisBit]

Obviously in truth I don't know what's going to happen. I would argue that some kind of tiered point class system would be fundamentally different then say things like Valet parking, but who knows.

I guess - in short - as I've said it earlier, I think (depending on the differences in the tiered service) that such a move undermines DVC's entire value proposition. This IMO could be a real game changer, at a time when buyers of DVC are likely (I'm guessing here) more scarce than ever; this guess is largely due to the realities of our current global economy. I think this could perpetuate that notion, and further drive down the price of the re-sale market which in turn also drives down DVC's ability to charge top dollar to gain new members.

Even the Magic of Disney does not supersede the powers of supply and demand ... but good on them to keep trying!

Just my 2 cents

Happy Thanks Giving to All OF MY American Friends!

Cheers,
Zebsterama

IF they were to do this and it is a big if, it is to give an incentive to direct buyers. It will not hurt Disney direct sales, but could substantially hurt resales, depending on the exact terms that they set up. Supply and demand is already there hurting the direct sales, the resale market is flooded right now and the prices are very discounted compared to direct sales so there is no competing with the resale market. If they set up some type of "illusion" of value, there are number of buyers that will want to take advantage of this. It would most likely be a move to position themselves for a rebounding economy....I have seen DVC strategically positioning themselves in the last year for a resurging economy and more disposable income, not it is a wait and see if it pays off.