SAT Score Changes

[momrek06]

Thanks! DS is our oldest and all this college stuff is all new to us.

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Yes, it can be overwhelming at first, hang in there, Mom, you will soon enough be a pro at learning about all this applying to colleges!!! Attend all the seminars your h.s. offers from academics to financial...wait until the fasfa and on and on...yup, like I said, overwhelming!!!!

 

[Green Tea]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but since you seem to be knowlegeable and since the OP said 1200 would get her DD a scholarship, I have a question. My DD took the SAT last year in the 7th grade. She made a 300 in reading, 460 in math and 380 in writing. Is that a total score of 1140? How does that rank for most 7th graders? thank you!!

You will get a synopsis from the program in early summer, or at least we did each time. We were also told to expect about a300- 400 point jump from the early tests to what the ultimate score would be (that was with the 2 part test only though, so not sure how the third section will figure in)

As a 7th grader mine got 1180 on the 2 parts and the corresponding 2 parts as a junior 1470. The 3 total was 2170.

To al the people saying they have to get X more points for admission or scholarship, remember the scores listed are generally the median 50% of the incoming class. Some are higher, some are lower. Apply for anything you want-you might be surprised and get it. Kids above the profile get rejected sometimes, while those below off somehing unique or special that get accepted. Never dismiss anything based solely on a number.

 

[sandramaac]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but since you seem to be knowlegeable and since the OP said 1200 would get her DD a scholarship, I have a question. My DD took the SAT last year in the 7th grade. She made a 300 in reading, 460 in math and 380 in writing. Is that a total score of 1140? How does that rank for most 7th graders? thank you!!

To be honest with you, those scores are not all that great to be considered for any of the Gifted and Talented programs like Johns Hopkins or Duke. When my dd took them in 7th grade she had 530 math and 530 verbal. That was six years agao, and at the time 500 was the minimum in each of the sub test you needed to qualify and participate in any of the programs.

 

[Galahad]

The written (essay) part is looked at by many schools but the score generally doesn't get added to a total SAT score. So they still look at the 1600 total possible for the traditional Math and Verbal. The Essay portion is still too new for most to make it part of admission criteria. They do use it for some scholarship decisions more often. So when you see scores, still think 1600, don't think 2400 - 90% of the time.

Our son - current senior - took the SAT twice and the ACT once. He probably won't take them again as they are in line with his schools of choice, but as a poster said earlier, schools add up the highest "pieces" so it never hurts you to try again!

 

[JoyLuck]

To al the people saying they have to get X more points for admission or scholarship, remember the scores listed are generally the median 50% of the incoming class. Some are higher, some are lower. Apply for anything you want-you might be surprised and get it. Kids above the profile get rejected sometimes, while those below off somehing unique or special that get accepted. Never dismiss anything based solely on a number.

I believe that the poster who mentioned this did so because the school or schools of their choice uses the actual number 1200 or higher when referring to certain scholarships (such as a 'presidential' scholarship). All three of the schools my daughter applied to clearly state what qualifications are necessary for certain scholarship money. It certainly does take out some of the 'guesswork' for the applicant. That being said, we have found that the 'scholarship' letters that came in with the acceptance of two of the schools were better than they should have been, according to what was in the schools 'handbook'. Not STELLAR, but a little more than they should have given. So, that says that there are other factors involved. It sounds like I am contradicting myself, but we have found the whole process FULL of contradictions.

 

[allison443]

The written (essay) part is looked at by many schools but the score generally doesn't get added to a total SAT score. So they still look at the 1600 total possible for the traditional Math and Verbal. The Essay portion is still too new for most to make it part of admission criteria. They do use it for some scholarship decisions more often. So when you see scores, still think 1600, don't think 2400 - 90% of the time.

I agree that up to now colleges haven't really "counted" the writing section, it was still new, etc. However, my daughter is a current Junior in high school, we just attended an information session for Penn State. They stated that beginning with the high school class of 2009 (current juniors) Penn State will look at all 3 sections of the SAT to determine your score. So they will base the scores on a 2400 scale. I'm wondering if other colleges are also going to start considering the writing section in the total score...

 

[aprilvaca04]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but since you seem to be knowlegeable and since the OP said 1200 would get her DD a scholarship, I have a question. My DD took the SAT last year in the 7th grade. She made a 300 in reading, 460 in math and 380 in writing. Is that a total score of 1140? How does that rank for most 7th graders? thank you!!

A 7th grader took the SAT's????Just wondering why??

 

[momrek06]

A 7th grader took the SAT's????Just wondering why??

Ok as the parent of two sons graduating in May...one Masters and one Bachelor....WHY ARE 7th GRADERS TAKING THE SAT???

Have times changed THAT much since my sons were in jr/sr high???

April: I asked this question when the thread first was posted and I only received this one answer from DVCLiz....but sheesh people, 7th graders taking the SAT's/ACT's to me is simply just to young...:

7th graders who take the SAT have been solicited by a screening program - in our case it was the Duke University TIP (Talent Identification Program.) If you scored a certain percentile on a standardized test (again, for us it was a 95% or better on any of the test areas on the ERB test - this was 7 years ago for DD19) you were invited to take the SAT as a seventh grader. They used the scores to identify really bright students - I think if you made a 1000 or better you went into a more specialized pool of students and were maybe eligible for some type of scholarship along the way. DD made a 970, I think - good but not quite good enough to do anything with. My younger DD didn't meet the 95% requirement in any of the subjects - she had a couple in the 90s but not a 95%, so she didn't take the SAT.

It didn't mean anything in the long run except a practice before the real thing for DD19. Except DD13 felt a little bad she didn't get the same chance...

Is this every parents reason that their 7th graders are taking the SAT's???

 

[3pirates]

7th graders who take the SAT have been solicited by a screening program - in our case it was the Duke University TIP (Talent Identification Program.) If you scored a certain percentile on a standardized test (again, for us it was a 95% or better on any of the test areas on the ERB test - this was 7 years ago for DD19) you were invited to take the SAT as a seventh grader. They used the scores to identify really bright students - I think if you made a 1000 or better you went into a more specialized pool of students and were maybe eligible for some type of scholarship along the way. DD made a 970, I think - good but not quite good enough to do anything with. My younger DD didn't meet the 95% requirement in any of the subjects - she had a couple in the 90s but not a 95%, so she didn't take the SAT.

It didn't mean anything in the long run except a practice before the real thing for DD19. Except DD13 felt a little bad she didn't get the same chance...

It is good for them to see the test before they have to do the real thing. It is pretty hard to predict how they will do as Juniors from this, just because their knowledge, maturity, brain development all come into play. And the people they are being compared to in this situation are those who have shown the ability to test well, so the bar is very high.

One of my DSs did well enough to get a medal at the state level.

One of his classmates did well enough to go to Duke and get a medal. They may give scholarships, but nobody we knew of got anything. What we do get is mailings for special programs, a newsletter, etc.

A 7th grader took the SAT's????Just wondering why??

See the post I quoted above.

 

[3pirates]

April: I asked this question when the thread first was posted and I only received this one answer from DVCLiz....but sheesh people, 7th graders taking the SAT's/ACT's to me is simply just to young...:

Is this every parents reason that their 7th graders are taking the SAT's???

For me, yes...they are invited, we figured WHY NOT. There is no pressure, we certainly didn't spend any time preparing, yet lets them be somewhat familiar and hopefully now that my junior is about to take it he will be less stressed since he has seen it before. The PSAT serves the same purpose.

Plus, some of the opportunities/materials we have received have been interesting. My DSs aren't into Summer programs, but its just another avenue if someone were.

 

[3pirates]

I agree that up to now colleges haven't really "counted" the writing section, it was still new, etc. However, my daughter is a current Junior in high school, we just attended an information session for Penn State. They stated that beginning with the high school class of 2009 (current juniors) Penn State will look at all 3 sections of the SAT to determine your score. So they will base the scores on a 2400 scale. I'm wondering if other colleges are also going to start considering the writing section in the total score...

You can learn a lot from the admissions sections on schools websites...I've been doing a lot of looking, and from what I can tell it is different by school. Usually they say what their average/cutoff scores are and which parts of the test are included to get that score.

 

[momrek06]

For me, yes...they are invited, we figured WHY NOT. There is no pressure, we certainly didn't spend any time preparing, yet lets them be somewhat familiar and hopefully now that my junior is about to take it he will be less stressed since he has seen it before. The PSAT serves the same purpose.

Plus, some of the opportunities/materials we have received have been interesting. My DSs aren't into Summer programs, but its just another avenue if someone were.

Well soon we will hear that they will be taking them in the 5th GRADE!!!! I am just saying IMHO, 7th GRADERS are too young to take an SAT even if it is for PRACTICE!!!

Don't 7th Graders have enough stress in their lives to be taking a test that will mean zero to them for oh say another FIVE YEARS!!!!

I posted earlier on another thread about my DS' college here in the Northeast with a "Very Difficult" entrance level as they have DROPPED the SAT's/ACT's as of this years entering freshmen. They also do NOT factor in Class Rank.

Providence College
Providence, Rhode Island

Independent Roman Catholic comprehensive, founded 1917
Calendar semesters
Degrees certificates, associate, bachelor's, and master's
Suburban 105-acre campus with easy access to Boston
Endowment $134.5 million
Coed, 3,998 undergraduate students, 100% full-time, 56% women, 44% men
Very difficult entrance level, 48% of applicants were admitted

Please parents take a minute and read the following article.

Providence College to no longer require SATs for admission.

The college's president says such standardized tests may give an unfair advantage to more affluent applicants.

BY JENNIFER D. JORDAN
Journal Staff Writer

PROVIDENCE -- Providence College will no longer require applicants to take the Scholastic Assessment Test or another standardized college entrance exam, the ACT, as part of its admissions process, making it the first four-year institution in Rhode Island to adopt a "test-optional" policy.

High school seniors applying to the Catholic college for acceptance in September 2007 without the test scores "will receive full consideration, without penalty, for admission," according to a statement released today.

Providence College's president, the Rev. Brian J. Shanley, said three factors convinced him to make the policy change: evidence that test scores were not as good an indicator of student performance as grades and the rigor of classes in high school; a desire to increase access to minority and first-generation college students; and a perceived inequity in the current college application process.

"From a moral point of view, the idea that if you have the economic resources to take a test prep course and it gives you a competitive advantage over students who can't take the test -- there is something wrong about that," Father Shanley said. "We were founded to be a school of opportunity for first-generation immigrants and people who otherwise wouldn't get a college degree, and I feel a moral imperative to stay true to our mission."

Popular test preparation courses, such as Kaplan and The Princeton Review, cost $900 to $1,000, an amount out of reach for many of the students Providence College would like to attract.

"The primary issue is access to higher education, especially for populations that feel priced out or unable to compete because there's a sense that private colleges have become so competitive that you can't be accepted if you don't have the right numbers," said Christopher Lydon, associate vice president for admission and enrollment planning at PC. "We hope that by going test optional, students who may not be the best test takers will continue to consider us."

As PC has risen steadily through national rankings in the past decade, including the influential U.S. News & World Report, the average SAT score for the school has also risen, to a range of 1,120 to 1,290, Lydon said. Becoming more selective has enhanced PC's reputation, but has not helped the college become as diverse as administrators would like. Minority students will make up 11.5 percent of this year's incoming class -- almost double the percentage from five years ago, but still well below where the college would like to be, Father Shanley said.

"In some ways, this is personal for me, because my father was the first generation in his family to go to college, when he came to Providence College on the GI Bill. And it changed my family dramatically, because of the opportunity he had," said Father Shanley, who grew up in Warwick and graduated from PC in 1980. "I want Providence College to continue to be a place for students whose parents didn't go to college to come here and change the arc of their families' lives."

DOZENS OF OTHER colleges have decided to drop SAT and ACT scores from their admissions requirements, including Bates College in Maine, which was one of the first prestigious colleges to become "test optional" two decades ago. More recently, both Mount Holyoke College in western Massachusetts and the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester have decided to not require college entrance exam scores.

"I talked to the president of Holy Cross about it, and he said they have really increased their applicant pool and diversity," Father Shanley said. "We think we're at the crest of a wave that a lot of other schools will follow."

Just as a point of interest! :

 

[JoyLuck]

Well soon we will hear that they will be taking them in the 5th GRADE!!!! I am just saying IMHO, 7th GRADERS are too young to take an SAT even if it is for PRACTICE!!!

Don't 7th Graders have enough stress in their lives to be taking a test that will mean zero to them for oh say another FIVE YEARS!!!!

I posted earlier on another thread about my DS' college here in the Northeast with a "Very Difficult" entrance level as they have DROPPED the SAT's/ACT's as of this years entering freshmen. They also do NOT factor in Class Rank.

Providence College
Providence, Rhode Island

Independent Roman Catholic comprehensive, founded 1917
Calendar semesters
Degrees certificates, associate, bachelor's, and master's
Suburban 105-acre campus with easy access to Boston
Endowment $134.5 million
Coed, 3,998 undergraduate students, 100% full-time, 56% women, 44% men
Very difficult entrance level, 48% of applicants were admitted

Please parents take a minute and read the following article.

Providence College to no longer require SATs for admission.

The college's president says such standardized tests may give an unfair advantage to more affluent applicants.

BY JENNIFER D. JORDAN
Journal Staff Writer

PROVIDENCE -- Providence College will no longer require applicants to take the Scholastic Assessment Test or another standardized college entrance exam, the ACT, as part of its admissions process, making it the first four-year institution in Rhode Island to adopt a "test-optional" policy.

High school seniors applying to the Catholic college for acceptance in September 2007 without the test scores "will receive full consideration, without penalty, for admission," according to a statement released today.

Providence College's president, the Rev. Brian J. Shanley, said three factors convinced him to make the policy change: evidence that test scores were not as good an indicator of student performance as grades and the rigor of classes in high school; a desire to increase access to minority and first-generation college students; and a perceived inequity in the current college application process.

"From a moral point of view, the idea that if you have the economic resources to take a test prep course and it gives you a competitive advantage over students who can't take the test -- there is something wrong about that," Father Shanley said. "We were founded to be a school of opportunity for first-generation immigrants and people who otherwise wouldn't get a college degree, and I feel a moral imperative to stay true to our mission."

Popular test preparation courses, such as Kaplan and The Princeton Review, cost $900 to $1,000, an amount out of reach for many of the students Providence College would like to attract.

"The primary issue is access to higher education, especially for populations that feel priced out or unable to compete because there's a sense that private colleges have become so competitive that you can't be accepted if you don't have the right numbers," said Christopher Lydon, associate vice president for admission and enrollment planning at PC. "We hope that by going test optional, students who may not be the best test takers will continue to consider us."

As PC has risen steadily through national rankings in the past decade, including the influential U.S. News & World Report, the average SAT score for the school has also risen, to a range of 1,120 to 1,290, Lydon said. Becoming more selective has enhanced PC's reputation, but has not helped the college become as diverse as administrators would like. Minority students will make up 11.5 percent of this year's incoming class -- almost double the percentage from five years ago, but still well below where the college would like to be, Father Shanley said.

"In some ways, this is personal for me, because my father was the first generation in his family to go to college, when he came to Providence College on the GI Bill. And it changed my family dramatically, because of the opportunity he had," said Father Shanley, who grew up in Warwick and graduated from PC in 1980. "I want Providence College to continue to be a place for students whose parents didn't go to college to come here and change the arc of their families' lives."

DOZENS OF OTHER colleges have decided to drop SAT and ACT scores from their admissions requirements, including Bates College in Maine, which was one of the first prestigious colleges to become "test optional" two decades ago. More recently, both Mount Holyoke College in western Massachusetts and the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester have decided to not require college entrance exam scores.

"I talked to the president of Holy Cross about it, and he said they have really increased their applicant pool and diversity," Father Shanley said. "We think we're at the crest of a wave that a lot of other schools will follow."

Just as a point of interest! :

Thank goodness, they are finally seeing the light!! By the way, I totally agree...7th grade is way too young for the SAT test.

 

[Cindy B]

7th grade is old for SAT's around here.

My son got something in the mail in 6th grade about it. We declined. I do have a funny story though about young kids and the SAT.


I am a teaching student. Because of this I have to take Praxis exams on content. One day I had a math portion scheduled (it was elementary math at that) and I dutifully went to the testing center. There I was, an adult sweating out this test while next to me 11 year old 6th graders were taking the SAT.

 

[TimeforMe]

Providence College is on my DS' short list of colleges to which he is applying. I like their reasoning behind not requiring SATs. Makes a lot of sense.

At any rate, DS just received his SAT scores, too and went up a total of 170 points from the last time he took them. This makes a HUGE difference in his applications and opens up more doors for scholarships, etc. His first choice school does look at the writing component (which he went up 100 pts.) so it was so worth it for him to take them again, especially since he did so well.

Thank you to the poster that mentioned they take the highest scores across administrations--I never knew that.

FTR, I agree that 7th grade is too young. Even for practice testing. That's what PSATs are for.

 

[jajuan]

My son took the SAT in 7th grade as well. He was thrilled an honored to take it and did quite well. I guess it depends on the child.

 

[momrek06]

My son took the SAT in 7th grade as well. He was thrilled an honored to take it and did quite well. I guess it depends on the child.

Wow, really, thrilled and honored. Well then it has been a LONG time since my two were in jr/sr h.s. (Masters May'08, Bachelor May'08)!!! Nope, not one time did either of my DS' exclaim to me that they were thrilled and honored to take any STANDARDIZED TEST!!! Times have changed.

 

[Green Tea]

When mine took them in middle school, he said they were kind of fun. He didn't say that when he took for real mid junior year.

Rollins College is another school going to optional test submission. They are required though if you want to be considered for merit scholarships.

 

[DVCLiz]

Wow, really, thrilled and honored. Well then it has been a LONG time since my two were in jr/sr h.s. (Masters May'08, Bachelor May'08)!!! Nope, not one time did either of my DS' exclaim to me that they were thrilled and honored to take any STANDARDIZED TEST!!! Times have changed.

Why so heated up about this, momrek06? It's not a situation in which pushy parents are trying to get their gifted children a leg up at any cost. You can't get in line first and sign your child up, or pay a broker a huge fee to make sure your child gets a ticket. It's just a selection based on standardized test scores. It doesn't count for anything, and it doesn't require any preparation or stress, unless a parent is handling it inappropriately on the front end. And it's not every seventh grader, either. It's a group of pretty high achievers, so for them academics may very well be something to get excited about.

If a child has scored high enough to be in the 95% percentile on a standardized test, then they are usually bright enough to be able to handle some of the material on the SAT. It's just a technique to weed out the merely bright from the truly bright, if you know what I mean. It's just a tool, that's all. Nothing bad happens if a 7th grader goes in and decides to just color in all the "a" bubbles - again, unless a parent is wrongly pressuring a kid.

In my daughter's class, the kids who were asked really were excited about it. They may not have been thrilled and honored while they were sitting down taking the test, but they sure were beforehand. It was kind of a big deal to be asked. I know when my younger daughter didn't make the cut, she was a little disappointed, even though she doesn't like standardized tests.

 

[momrek06]

Why so heated up about this, momrek06? It's not a situation in which pushy parents are trying to get their gifted children a leg up at any cost. You can't get in line first and sign your child up, or pay a broker a huge fee to make sure your child gets a ticket. It's just a selection based on standardized test scores. It doesn't count for anything, and it doesn't require any preparation or stress, unless a parent is handling it inappropriately on the front end. And it's not every seventh grader, either. It's a group of pretty high achievers, so for them academics may very well be something to get excited about.

If a child has scored high enough to be in the 95% percentile on a standardized test, then they are usually bright enough to be able to handle some of the material on the SAT. It's just a technique to weed out the merely bright from the truly bright, if you know what I mean. It's just a tool, that's all. Nothing bad happens if a 7th grader goes in and decides to just color in all the "a" bubbles - again, unless a parent is wrongly pressuring a kid.

In my daughter's class, the kids who were asked really were excited about it. They may not have been thrilled and honored while they were sitting down taking the test, but they sure were beforehand. It was kind of a big deal to be asked. I know when my younger daughter didn't make the cut, she was a little disappointed, even though she doesn't like standardized tests.

I am not heated at all, DVCLiz, I am DISILLUSIONED as to what these schools (& parents) THINK to have 7th Graders (today) and 5th Graders (tomorrow) taking STANDARDIZED tests!!

How about when the SCORES come out and everyone starts COMPARING? That is what bothers me. This is the STRESS I speak of. Whether you want to admit it or not, kids do talk and kids do compare and kids do get very upset when they just do not make the grade or the cut (as you stated). This is when I questioned "thrilled and honored"!!!!!! And this is why I think 7th Graders are too young for these tests. There is just so much competition already out there at that age group from music, to arts, to sports, to clubs, to gf's and bf's and now the added stress of how you scored on an SAT?