Safety, ride breakdowns, and understaffing

[jump00]

With the ICON incident did the child slip out? I wasn’t exactly sure what happened?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

My point was that the obvious issue with the death on that ride was untrained, uncaring employees.

We do not know yet until an investigation is conducted. the issue is that the victim was allowed to ride although it should have been obvious that he was too big to fit properly into the restraint. Either the employees were not sufficiently trained to recognize when someone is too big to fit into the restraint, or they allowed him to ride while recognizing that he was too big to fit properly into the restraint, or they were not paying attention - the last two of which could play into the assertion that the death was caused by the ride employees. Or a combination of all.

The ICON park freefall ride was also designed with insufficient restraints. The ride had a design flaw (no failsafes or secondary restraints common on that type of ride) which was recognized and assumed the operators would compensate for it. That brings in the park and the designers of the ride.

I don't know the extent of training WDW does regarding attraction safety, but I suppose it is now being assumed in this post that a) WDW's training is also deficient and/or b) WDW's employees don't care about guest safety.

I'm not qualified to get into whether what occurred at ICON park, a very different park, can be extrapolated to WDW. Anything now is just speculation, even when based on anecdotes that WDW employees are disgruntled and likely to be inefficient.

Am I worried that WDW employees will do the same as ICON park employees? No, not really. You'd have to be worried about ALL rides in ALL parks, they all have staffing issues.

"Slip out" is probably too general a phrase - at 6'5" and 340 lbs he was too big for the shoulder restraint to hold him in while the ride was braking, and there was no failsafe or backup restraint on that ride.

 

[xipotec]

I think it's too much of a leap from garbage cans and G+ to exploding space shuttles.

Its really not. Especially if you have understanding of complex systems. Most people do not. With very complex engineering , it can often only take one slip up, and any redundancies for safety are rendered mute. In the case of Columbia , those astronauts , lost their lives over a piece of foam that hit the wing, thats not a giant malfunction. Same for the last airplane crashes with Boeing…software glitch.

Disney own accidents prove the same, as monorail accident.

It often only takes one missing cog in the clock to make it malfunction. What Disney does is inherently dangerous. In the past, I have had all the confidence in the world to KNOW they were keeping things safe.

With current management style , I am not so confident they are.

 

[The Foolish Mortal]

My point was that the obvious issue with the death on that ride was untrained, uncaring employees.

We cannot pretend that the CMs have been treated well the last years. They are also having obvious staffing issues , which the other issues highlight.

If they are desperate to staff, is it unreasonable to think they may get lazy on training and quality of staff also?

If they can become penny pinchers on sanitation, and we see the money grab of G+ and other cost increases, is it really so hard to extrapolate that mindset into an attitude of secondary safety in the interest of saving money?

This is what brought not one but two Space shuttles down. Cost savings and public pressure.

There are some specious leaps in your logic. But I don't think you care to debate that, so I won't. I will say, however, I don't think its appropriate for you to suggest that the employees involved in the Icon death are uncaring. I have known and do know plenty of park employees at various theme parks across the country and none of them have ever given me the impression that they are ambivalent about a customer's well being, let alone an accidental death. I do not think its appropriate for yout to suggest otherwise (unless you personally know the persons working that ride and have information apparently nobody else is privvy to)

 

[karen4546]

The recent tragedy in Orlando has got me thinking.

Is safety being compromised at the parks due to staffing issues??

We have seen reports of overflowing garbage, consistently breaking rides, claims of major staffing issues. All this and one may wonder if like many preventable tragedies, will these all have been warning signs prior to major disaster?

Are you worried about safety at the park under the new management?

 

[karen4546]

I have never had a problem pulling the seatbelt through the loop, or out again. The seatbelt is adjustable, the strap has a big loop, and once the seatbelt is unbuckled, it slides right through the loop in the strap. I sense a bit of hyperbole here.View attachment 658460

I wear use the “kid” strap also. No issues.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

if I thought this way I would never leave my home again. Wait, it's a condo, somebody might screw up and set it on fire. It's happened before at other condos.

If you really believe WDW is more dangerous under current management than it ever was before, then I guess the remedy is never go back there, but I don't see it myself. If there's actual evidence they're currently slacking off on ride maintenance and safety at WDW, that would be a big deal, but nobody has put any on this thread.

I'm about to go get on the subway and go home, the same subway that had a crash 10 years ago that killed 9 people and under current management there was a derailment issue. If I worried about that every day I'd have some issues.

 

[karen4546]

With the ICON incident did the child slip out? I wasn’t exactly sure what happened?

His harness was not secured correctly or it malfunctioned.
The graphic video shows the teen being Ali f out about 40 ft from the concrete. The ride was coming to an end and has a “jerk” before settling to the ground. That is when the child was ejected from his seat and hit face down on the concrete with extreme force.
Tragic, so tragic.

 

[dez1978]

With the ICON incident did the child slip out? I wasn’t exactly sure what happened?

That freefall ride. While yes he was a kid, he was 6'5" and 340lbs. He was too large for the safety mechanism to work properly and they should have never let him ride. I say that bc when I hear "a child slipped" out of a ride, I picture a little kid falling out bc they were too small, and thats always been my fear.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

the harness did secure, due to the ride's design the boy was too large for the single shoulder harness to keep him in the seat due to the forces exerted during the fall and braking. He well exceeded the passenger weight limit in the operating manual. Besides the design issues (there was no failsafe or secondary restraint), the park probably failed to properly train the operators, and if they were trained they were given too much leeway in deciding who was too big to ride.

 

[xipotec]

I have known and do know plenty of park employees at various theme parks across the country and none of them have ever given me the impression that they are ambivalent about a customer's well being, let alone an accidental death. I do not think its appropriate for yout to suggest otherwise (unless you personally know the persons working that ride and have information apparently nobody else is privvy to)

ok, so by this logic, no one is to blame?

If a ride operator knowing lets someone on a ride that is over the limit of safety for the ride then…..its not being ambivalent or careless????
What exactly is it then?

Oopsie?

I bet the lawyers definetly see it as neglect.

So whom is to blame here? The kid?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Nobody said no one is to blame. There's a lot of different types of blame. There likely won't be any criminal charges but there will be (after an investigation) assignment of cause to the ride design, ride manufacture (whose decision was it to not use a secondary restraint and why? Was the tilting of the seats relevant?) the operation of the ride and whether or not the actual operator(s) knew or should have known the passenger was over the weight limit. Were the operators trained on the weight limit, told what to look for, or were they told that if the harness clicks and the light comes on, the passenger can ride? We don't know any of this yet, nor do we know if the operators knew the passenger shouldn't ride and sent him off anyway. Not sure how it relates to WDW as it is currently managed, this is one specific case. It's not the first time there was operator or design error at a theme park ride and it won't be the last. it's usually more complicated than "uncaring employees"

 

[coasternut22]

the harness did secure, due to the ride's design the boy was too large for the single shoulder harness to keep him in the seat due to the forces exerted during the fall and braking. He well exceeded the passenger weight limit in the operating manual. Besides the design issues (there was no failsafe or secondary restraint), the park probably failed to properly train the operators, and if they were trained they were given too much leeway in deciding who was too big to ride.

This is correct. The restraint system worked as intended. It didn’t fail in any way. It’s just that he was so big, the shoulder harness stuck out so far, it left a large gap between his crotch and the bottom of the harness. For most people, there would be no gap. His was 12-16 inches. Add in the fact that the seats tilted back 30 degrees so the center of gravity is no longer on your butt but that wide open space. So when the g forces of 75mph suddenly hit at the brakes, the inertia squirted him through the gap between the seat and harness. It is mind boggling that the safety restraint system allowed for the ride to operate when the shoulder harness was so high up above the seat due to his large body. Absolute design error.

 

[The Foolish Mortal]

ok, so by this logic, no one is to blame?

If a ride operator knowing lets someone on a ride that is over the limit of safety for the ride then…..its not being ambivalent or careless????
What exactly is it then?

Oopsie?

I bet the lawyers definetly see it as neglect.

So whom is to blame here? The kid?

I don't really care to have this debate considering the cirumstances of what we are discussing. I will just say that I believe it possible for someone to make a mistake (if it was human error, which seems entirely possible) while at the same time not being ambivalent about customer safety.

 

[jump00]

His harness was not secured correctly or it malfunctioned.
The graphic video shows the teen being Ali f out about 40 ft from the concrete. The ride was coming to an end and has a “jerk” before settling to the ground. That is when the child was ejected from his seat and hit face down on the concrete with extreme force.
Tragic, so tragic.

Oh my gosh how horrible. Thank you for the explanation.