S/O: Divorce... how to cut down?

[tvguy]

Most things are unique to your experience and unlike anything the rest of us deal with. May the rest of us lead the charmed life you have with all your perfect decisions.

Sharing unique experiences are what discussion boards are about. Otherwise every reply would be "Yes, that was my experience too". So please don't criticize, please share your experiences.

 

[ClaraOswald]

I never understood why many (or even the majority of) women affected blame the “other woman” for their husband’s infidelity.

She’s called a homewrecker by the wife and the wife’s family and friends. The cheating husband rarely gets called derogatory names and his role is often downplayed or overlooked.

Just the usual patriarchal ********.

 

[sam_gordon]

Just the usual patriarchal ********.

From women.

 

[Christine]

I never understood why many (or even the majority of) women affected blame the “other woman” for their husband’s infidelity.

She’s called a homewrecker by the wife and the wife’s family and friends. The cheating husband rarely gets called derogatory names and his role is often downplayed or overlooked.

They have to do *something* to rationalize going back with a cheater. Most people, if you're objectively asked if you'd leave your cheating spouse, would give a resounding yes...until it happens to them and they may find it very hard or inconvenient to do so. In their minds, they know it goes against everything in their moral code to stay so there has to be some sort of cognitive dissonance going on to allow them to live with the choice to stay. They often make the other person the boogeyman because it helps with the cognitive dissonance.

 

[DCLMP]

You can have 2 incomes without being married.

No really Clara....who knew?

 

[gmi3804]

They have to do *something* to rationalize going back with a cheater. Most people, if you're objectively asked if you'd leave your cheating spouse, would give a resounding yes...until it happens to them and they may find it very hard or inconvenient to do so. In their minds, they know it goes against everything in their moral code to stay so there has to be some sort of cognitive dissonance going on to allow them to live with the choice to stay. They often make the other person the boogeyman because it helps with the cognitive dissonance.

Agreed. Admitting the spouse was at fault is an admission that YOU made a bad choice, even if the choice was made with no knowledge that this would happen. It's also easier to blame a stranger than someone that you have a history (and maybe children) with.

 

[nancipants]

From women.

Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.

 

[ClaraOswald]

From women.

Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.

Nanci beat me to it. It really is. And it's in engrained in our society so much. I think most, if not all, of us have done or said things that fall into it.

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

Sharing unique experiences are what discussion boards are about. Otherwise every reply would be "Yes, that was my experience too". So please don't criticize, please share your experiences.

Not criticizing. Just observing. And I freely share my experiences. I just don't always do it exactly right. Again, as I said, I wish we all could do it as perfectly as you and your family and with the unique experiences you describe in contrast to the rest of us. I'm honestly happy for you that you have always done everything exactly right.

 

[tvguy]

Not criticizing. Just observing. And I freely share my experiences. I just don't always do it exactly right. Again, as I said, I wish we all could do it as perfectly as you and your family and with the unique experiences you describe in contrast to the rest of us. I'm honestly happy for you that you have always done everything exactly right.

I don't believe I ever said anything about doing anything exactly right, just how they happened in my family. Not sure my wife growing up with her mom being married 3 times, divorced twice, could ever be considered being exactly right. Or my father marrying my half brothers mother, twice, being exactly right either. That is just how it is.

 

[disykat]

I don't believe I ever said anything about doing anything exactly right, just how they happened in my family. Not sure my wife growing up with her mom being married 3 times, divorced twice, could ever be considered being exactly right. Or my father marrying my half brothers mother, twice, being exactly right either. That is just how it is.

Interesting how you sharing your experiences are somehow "wrong" because that poster wishes she'd been more like you I guess???

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

Interesting how you sharing your experiences are somehow "wrong" because that poster wishes she'd been more like you I guess???

I have no interest in being more like him. God forbid. I can't speak more on it so I don't get points but he has very unique experiences as opposed to the rest of us. Don't really care if you don't like it. He can share whatever he likes. I don't have to agree or like it.

 

[goofyernmost]

Just the usual patriarchal ********.

From women.

I wonder what it would be called with my divorce. My wife left me less than two months after our youngest child got married. She left with no notice and only left a note that said... "I have left". She filed for divorce the next day.

The next points are the end result of 29 years of marriage:

1. The only reason she later declared to the court was that I was controlling so she no longer wanted to be married.
2. She later told our daughter that she had only married me for my ability to give her children and she had planned to leave the situation immediately after they were out of the house.
3. The cost to her was that she lost her daughters and now even 24 years since that happened and over 8 years since she passed away from a stroke, they still never want to talk about her or their anger about it.
4. As for myself, I came to terms with it because she was also heavy into a mental illness that none of the large numbers of professional counselors never addressed, deciding to just agree with her delusions and paranoia and collect their fees. She was unable to support herself after in spite of holding a Masters Degree in Nursing and a second Masters in Gerontology. She died basically alone, broke and sick and even though my daughters did do all the could for her. She never did get over her disillusioned anger at me, so I couldn't help, even though I did help out secretly through my girls.
5. My advice as to how to cut down on divorces is not ever get married. Have a partner if you wish but we have to be able to know if we stay it is only because we want to stay together. Instead, divorce is just a symptom along with extreme unhappiness and the actual illness which is just incompatibility and selfishness.

 

[guy_incognito]

I would say faith based marriages probably end less likely in divorce according to Google.

Faith in something, for sure. Kids need to see marriages work, in my opinion. What they see too much of are celebrity joke-marriages that come and go with the seasons, and it has been normalized.

My grandparents on both sides... married until death, both over 50 years.
Both my parents and in-laws, married now for 55+ years
We've been married now for 21 years, my brothers for 30+ years. Interestingly enough, both of my sisters in law have parents that have been married for 50-60 years.
Brother in-law (Wife's brother) is a newbie, but they've been married now for 13 years.

My kids are going to make mistakes, but I really hope they can make good decisions. Don't jump into hasty decisions. Make sure your mate is your FRIEND and not just a sexual partner. Make sure your families are similar. etc etc.... there's no magic formula, but most of the divorces I see are not a surprise.

 

[Turn the Page]

I wonder what it would be called with my divorce. My wife left me less than two months after our youngest child got married. She left with no notice and only left a note that said... "I have left". She filed for divorce the next day.

The next points are the end result of 29 years of marriage:

1. The only reason she later declared to the court was that I was controlling so she no longer wanted to be married.
2. She later told our daughter that she had only married me for my ability to give her children and she had planned to leave the situation immediately after they were out of the house.
3. The cost to her was that she lost her daughters and now even 24 years since that happened and over 8 years since she passed away from a stroke, they still never want to talk about her or their anger about it.
4. As for myself, I came to terms with it because she was also heavy into a mental illness that none of the large numbers of professional counselors never addressed, deciding to just agree with her delusions and paranoia and collect their fees. She was unable to support herself after in spite of holding a Masters Degree in Nursing and a second Masters in Gerontology. She died basically alone, broke and sick and even though my daughters did do all the could for her. She never did get over her disillusioned anger at me, so I couldn't help, even though I did help out secretly through my girls.
5. My advice as to how to cut down on divorces is not ever get married. Have a partner if you wish but we have to be able to know if we stay it is only because we want to stay together. Instead, divorce is just a symptom along with extreme unhappiness and the actual illness which is just incompatibility and selfishness.

Devil's advocate here, but is having a long term partner without the paperwork really any different than a legal marriage?

Even if you don't live in a state that recognizes common law marriage and even if you have managed to keep your finances completely separate and do not legally co-own property, etc. If you have kids, aren't the social and emotional effects of the relationship breaking down the same whether you're legally married or not?

I think we get hung up on the term "divorce" too much. The bottom line is the problems we are talking about stem from a relationship breaking down . This idea that the way to cut down on divorces is to never get married is silly. There is very little difference between a legally married couple breaking up and a live-in long term relationship breaking up. Just more paperwork. The emotional and financial effects on any children and former partners are the same. In fact, the effects on children and former partners, not always but often women, of non-married former couples may be worse. Without that legal paperwork in place one of the partners, again often the woman but not always, is often left with no legal recourse for things like alimony or a fair share of equity in the home, etc. In many ways being a long term, non married partner is far riskier for women than actually getting married.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

Rules and regulations aren't responsible for creating happy marriages. People are.

I've been married over 50 years, and I only have one person's perspective, but looking back I think there are some factors in the beginning that made it less likely than some other couples to divorce.

--I couldn't imagine NOT being married to my husband before we decided to get married.

--We were both 100% committed to the work of growing up and staying together, whatever that took. If one person is fully committed, but the other is not, divorce is likely, and possibly inevitable.

--Like everyone, we each grew and changed, we bumped up against each others' imperfections, and we had lots of stressful external stuff happen to us. Without the determination to figure out how to weather it all, instead of throwing in the towel, I don't know how we could have made it.

--But above all, both of us are genuinely kind, loving people. We want the best for each other, and for the living, breathing 3rd entity called our marriage. You won't believe how much you and your partner can change and grow in 50+ years. but if one of you isn't a good, honest person, run for the hills!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I never understood why many (or even the majority of) women affected blame the “other woman” for their husband’s infidelity.

She’s called a homewrecker by the wife and the wife’s family and friends. The cheating husband rarely gets called derogatory names and his role is often downplayed or overlooked.

The cheating spouse is the home wrecker. He's the one that broke his vows. The other woman never made any. And yet on Springer two women pulling each other's hair out, the other women being deceived and lied to just as much as the spouse and the culprit sitting in his chair having a good ole time watching them.

 

[Kimkimba]

I would say there’s nothing that can be done.

I’ve been divorced twice. I’ll say I was young, naive, and not treated well in either marriage.

But you’ll all be happy to know the third time was the charm. Almost 28 great years so far.

 

[goofyernmost]

Devil's advocate here, but is having a long term partner without the paperwork really any different than a legal marriage?

Even if you don't live in a state that recognizes common law marriage and even if you have managed to keep your finances completely separate and do not legally co-own property, etc. If you have kids, aren't the social and emotional effects of the relationship breaking down the same whether you're legally married or not?

I think we get hung up on the term "divorce" too much. The bottom line is the problems we are talking about stem from a relationship breaking down . This idea that the way to cut down on divorces is to never get married is silly. There is very little difference between a legally married couple breaking up and a live-in long term relationship breaking up. Just more paperwork. The emotional and financial effects on any children and former partners are the same. In fact, the effects on children and former partners, not always but often women, of non-married former couples may be worse. Without that legal paperwork in place one of the partners, again often the woman but not always, is often left with no legal recourse for things like alimony or a fair share of equity in the home, etc. In many ways being a long term, non married partner is far riskier for women than actually getting married.

I know my vent sounded like I was anti-divorce/marriage when I was more upset about anyone thinking that there should be a way to reduce the numbers of divorces. I am not, I know that there have been many instances where the woman has either been abused, physically or emotionally, maybe helped to get their financial situation stable and then without the benefit of the legal process of divorce were left with nothing. So it was just a minor tongue in cheek suggestion of the only way that divorce should either be shutdown completely or limited. Just don't get married and divorces will be under control. The numbers of relationships will breaking up will still not change, but you won't know about them and women will suffer to a greater degree than men in many cases.

 

[sam_gordon]

I was more upset about anyone thinking that there should be a way to reduce the numbers of divorces.

With all due respect, as the OP, I'm not saying there "should" be a way. I'm asking if there "is" a way.

This is not an attempt to keep couples in bad marriages. This is questioning how to avoid the bad marriages in the first place, along with defining what is a "bad marriage". And let's be honest, there are many levels of "bad". Abusive, controlling, and cheating spouses should absolutely get divorced. Are there other "irreconcilable differences" that justify divorce? Sure. But is there anything that can be done before the marriage to figure these kinds of things out. And yes, people do change their views over time. I'll readily acknowledge that.