S/O: Angel Trees- Long, winded VENT

[Cindy B]

Can I give some little inner city perspective?

I work at a very dangerous, very urban school. Just for background info, all of my kids are poverty level and it is a 100% free lunch school.

My entire school - 700 kids- participates in an angel tree with a local corporation. Back in October, we were told to conference with the kids and ask for something realistic. The local corporation comes, hand off the toys/games and they leave.

I will tell you what happens with angel tree things if it isn't direct involvement. The gift cards get traded or sold on the black market. Yes, there is a huge black market network (underground stores) run on the street corner, on the aisleway on the transit bus, peoples houses or a car --if they have one. Gift cards get sold or traded for money or even services. I have heard from quite a few of my kids about this type of thing.


And to be truthful what is wrong with kids-any kids wanting a brand name? My school is a uniform school but the kids can tell if a sweater is from Aeropostale, American Eagle or Target. The girls are very fashion conscious. Some girls get creative and buy from Goodwill, Plato's Closet or share with friends, but as a mother of teens I can't blame them for asking. Even if they are poor, they still have that desire to look like everyone else.

The boys want electronics. I can't blame them if they want an Ipod. Shuffles are really inexpensive compared to the Ipod touch so that can be done. They still want to be like other teens even if they don't have much.

Just because they are poor they shouldn't only get socks and underwear.

 

[TheLittleRoo]

Can I give some little inner city perspective?

I work at a very dangerous, very urban school. Just for background info, all of my kids are poverty level and it is a 100% free lunch school.

My entire school - 700 kids- participates in an angel tree with a local corporation. Back in October, we were told to conference with the kids and ask for something realistic. The local corporation comes, hand off the toys/games and they leave.

So, as a teacher, could you tell anyone which family needed a little extra help this year? Would it violate some code? I'm really trying to find one family who is needy to give to unexpectedly. I think calling the schools in a bad area would be a good start, but I'm worried they won't be able to tell me anything, or worse, someone within the school would give me info on their kids and keep the gifts. I doubt it, but I guess after reading all the theft and funneling away gifts I've read about here, you never know.

 

[bonybroad]

In our paper, they print letters to Santa.
It's usually cute, but PARENTS write these letters for their kids, also.
There was one printed last night from an EIGHTEEN MONTH old child, asking for a 25inch LCD tv for her room, a WII, an AG doll, and a Power Wheels.
WHY WOULD A PARENT write this stuff and have it published in anewspaper???
I really can't stand it, personally.

 

[wall*e2008]

I think this is the crux of the issue for me - not that the child may want a wii, playstation 3, xbox 360, etc. because many children do - its the fact that they ask for it from strangers who are being generous. Sure there are some extremely generous people who would buy these high priced items even if they weren't on their wish list and pleasantly surprise these children but to request it ...well it baffles me.

Sorry - but for me its very hard to ever ask people for help. Luckily in my adult life that has been a very rare occurence. But the humbleness that overcame me when I did have to ask for help (from my own father at the age of 19) seems to be what I see lacking in today's society.

I see it different. If that is what they want and I buy them a used PS2 with used games they will be very disappointed. There is a huge difference (I love video games) between the two.

For me items like IPODs, digital cameras, video game systems are not stand alone presents. You give a person an IPOD and they need a computer to dock it to and CDs or money to buy songs from the net to actually use the item. The kid might want get the IPOD but the gift cannot be used.

So encouraging them to ask for a gift that can be hard to get (the year the PS2 came out the name wanted one. They were selling on ebay for thousands and in extremely limited supply) or needs more $$$ to make it useful can result in the kid being setup for another disappointment. They have far to many of them in their lives.

I am not on who thinks they should ask for mittens and like it. I believe they should put a real wish (IPOD), clothes sizes and a few other wants on the list that are easier to get and less costly. This way the giver can buy from the list and the kid can still get something they want and would never get.

 

[RobinFabulous]

In our paper, they print letters to Santa.
It's usually cute, but PARENTS write these letters for their kids, also.
There was one printed last night from an EIGHTEEN MONTH old child, asking for a 25inch LCD tv for her room, a WII, an AG doll, and a Power Wheels.
WHY WOULD A PARENT write this stuff and have it published in anewspaper???
I really can't stand it, personally.

They do this in our area as well, but I can honestly say I've never seen things like that. We're in a poor area and often the letters are grandparents raising thir grandkids who just want some special food items and clothing...... It's heartbreaking

 

[hentob]

I bought children's diamond ( very small mind you) stud earrings at Kohl's they day after Christmas with a coupon on top of clearance for 16.99 the day after Christmas. Diamond studs doesn't have to mean hundreds of dollars.

But what two year old would EVER ask for diamonds?

 

[wall*e2008]

But what two year old would EVER ask for diamonds?

One whose mother wants to wear them.

 

[Tippythepooh]

I like most Americans work 2 jobs. My second job is at a local recreation center in a very poor neighborhood. We get sent forms from different organizations in October every year to help around 50 of our 175 registered children. We go through the attendance rolls of the regular attending children and pull the kids in the most need. Yes, we can judge who is in the most need by their day to day upkeep. Lack of clothing, food, basic hygiene or lack their of. We know whose parents are on drugs and basically what is going on in these families. We know which families are going to go and get gifts from other places like V.A. or the Salvation Army. We cross databases with other agencies to make sure these kids aren't on other help lists. The instructions on these forms are always the same. The child can ask for anything they want. We aren't to alter the child's personal wish list. The staff can then add things they witness that the child may need. That is usually where the things like gloves and socks come in at. I have filled out these forms with these kids for the past 7 years and have never had a kid ask for the "basics". I don't blame them these are KIDS and isn't this what Christmas is supposed to be about(besides the religious aspect) this is what society has pumped into their heads. I have added things like a stocking full of personal products for some of our teen boys, locker hygiene packs for the teen girls. When we have our Christmas party the kids are allowed to open their gifts there. We have always been lucky to have such sensible donors. Every year the children get something from their list they asked for and they always have received something they can use. I remember when 1 boy received a pair of Shaq sneakers he really needed shoes a staff member added that to his card. He was thrilled and put them on right away he also got a walmart card for $25 to buy a game for his Playstation. No no child has ever received any of the big things like a Playstation or Xbox system. One child received the same bike I myself give to charity each year. (I buy 2 of the 20 inch bikes at Walmart on black friday$28) If any you are concerned about the things actually getting to the kids then pick from a program that will allow you to drop off the gifts to the home yourself. That's what I do( on Christmas eve). The important thing is that if everyone that can donate something anywhere does, we will all make it better for someone somewhere out there.

 

[NMW]

I bought children's diamond ( very small mind you) stud earrings at Kohl's they day after Christmas with a coupon on top of clearance for 16.99 the day after Christmas. Diamond studs doesn't have to mean hundreds of dollars.

You know what, I didn't even think about it when I read it the first time. My DD is 6 and calls her earrings from Libby Lu's "diamond" earrings because to her, they look like diamonds. All the little girls in her 1st grade class call them "diamond" earrings. She has other ones she calls "pink diamond" earrings too. Maybe it was a child wanting earrings with shiny stones, period and not real diamonds.

 

[wall*e2008]

You know what, I didn't even think about it when I read it the first time. My DD is 6 and calls her earrings from Libby Lu's "diamond" earrings because to her, they look like diamonds. All the little girls in her 1st grade class call them "diamond" earrings. She has other ones she calls "pink diamond" earrings too. Maybe it was a child wanting earrings with shiny stones, period and not real diamonds.

You are talking about a 6 year old. The one who requested the earings was a 2 year old.

 

[hentob]

One whose mother wants to wear them.

Exactly.

 

[mjkacmom]

I thought Angel Trees were not for needs, but for wants. When I buy my children Christmas gifts, I want them to be excited when they open them. My soon to to 8 year old really wants an ipod, and I can't wait to see her face. Ds10 only wants a trick bike and legos, and he's getting them. Dd12 is going to love her Juicy hoodie. It's the Christmas magic, getting things they wouldn't get any other time of the year.

I remember the year my mom got ds a new comforter - he couldn't wait to open that big package, and the look on his face when he did Just because these kids are poor, doesn't mean they're going to get excited over new scarves and mittens. However, to get something, a want, instead of a need, for Christmas, that their parents would never be able to afford, is, IMHO, what the Angel Tree is for. They're children.

 

[gaelic grace]

I think this is the crux of the issue for me - not that the child may want a wii, playstation 3, xbox 360, etc. because many children do - its the fact that they ask for it from strangers who are being generous. Sure there are some extremely generous people who would buy these high priced items even if they weren't on their wish list and pleasantly surprise these children but to request it ...well it baffles me.

Sorry - but for me its very hard to ever ask people for help. Luckily in my adult life that has been a very rare occurence. But the humbleness that overcame me when I did have to ask for help (from my own father at the age of 19) seems to be what I see lacking in today's society.

That's the thing that is really making me crazy about this thread. Many of these kids don't know they are on an angel tree. They don't know they are asking for donations. They get asked what they want for Christmas and someone writes it down. This isn't the case in every situation but when I was a social worker we did our best with the younger ones for them not to realize they were a part of a charity drive. The older ones obviously did but we worked hard in those situations to make sure we did our best to allow the children and their families to keep their pride. I wanted that four year old who believed Santa was going to bring him a bike to think that Santa did. I wanted them to feel like other kids on Christmas morning. To not go to school or church and wonder why Santa brought the other kids big gifts and not them. I understand that there are abuses to every system. I wish there weren't. I think there are alot of old values that this society is losing and I understand alot of peoples frustration at the attitudes of some. On the flip side I was taught that you gave in quiet and that you didn't judge. That's an old value that some on this board seem to be losing. These are children. Let them be children. Lets not saddle them with the percieved inadequacies of their parents. We are making alot of assumptions about children we don't even know.

 

[mskayjay]

I understand the frustration and disgust you fill but at the same time, remember that *poor* kids and families want the same things that we have. How sad that a 13 year old may only get a new sweater while her friends have MP3 players or the other hot things out there. MP3 fyi can now be bought relatively cheap ($30). Its one thing to say that the parents should be responsible and "be happy" with any help they may get, but these kids don't know any different other than to ask for what they truly want. Christmas is all about that.

I ran a program for disadvantaged kids and families for 7 years. We coached the parents....."list 2 things your child would like that are within reach of a program like this". We also provided Christmas dinner and groceries for a week with our delivery. In all those years we only had one time where a child asked for a tv or a bike. He got neither but did get a GC to a local store that was within the scope of what we can afford. Whoever is posting these items on the tree needs to be working more closely with the parents to sort this out. But the kids...yeah, they're going to dream and ask, just like I did with the Sears Book when I was little and my list was 10 pages long.

 

[mskayjay]

That's the thing that is really making me crazy about this thread. Many of these kids don't know they are on an angel tree. They don't know they are asking for donations. They get asked what they want for Christmas and someone writes it down. This isn't the case in every situation but when I was a social worker we did our best with the younger ones for them not to realize they were a part of a charity drive. The older ones obviously did but we worked hard in those situations to make sure we did our best to allow the children and their families to keep their pride. I wanted that four year old who believed Santa was going to bring him a bike to think that Santa did. I wanted them to feel like other kids on Christmas morning. To not go to school or church and wonder why Santa brought the other kids big gifts and not them. I understand that there are abuses to every system. I wish there weren't. I think there are alot of old values that this society is losing and I understand alot of peoples frustration at the attitudes of some. On the flip side I was taught that you gave in quiet and that you didn't judge. That's an old value that some on this board seem to be losing. These are children. Let them be children. Lets not saddle them with the percieved inadequacies of their parents. We are making alot of assumptions about children we don't even know.

I so agree with you and the person you qouted in your reply.

 

[BeckyScott]

I just think it's really sad that this is what Christmas has become.

If you're one of those people, like me, that's hung around a couple of message boards before, you see it every year. Every year about this time there are a few "themes" that come up over and over again:

1. my extended family is demanding something that I don't want to do
2. a charity is doing something I don't approve of
3. I can't believe how much money someone else is spending/ not spending/ expects me to spend
4. I don't like the gift I've received from someone/ I don't want home-made gifts/ I don't like what the extended family bought my kids

It's just over and over again, the same things. It's just so sad. Is this really what Christmas has become? An excuse to complain? And in the message board world, these are all "hot topics" where it is bound to turn into an argument by the time it hits Page 2.

Here's the answers to all the quandries, that come up year after year:

1. Tell them "no".
2. Then don't donate.
3. It's none of your business how much someone else spends, and if they want you to spend more than you're comfortable with, tell them "no".
4. It's a gift, take it in the spirit in which it was intended, it's rude to be ungrateful if you receive something given with heart.

So in how-many-pages this thread turns into, what has been accomplished? Nothing.

Anybody change their minds about the topic? Probably not.

Anybody now peeved at some fellow DIS'ers about responses they don't agree with? Probably so. Oh, okay, so that's what the thread accomplished. Nice. Merry Christmas.

 

[allison443]

For me items like IPODs, digital cameras, video game systems are not stand alone presents. You give a person an IPOD and they need a computer to dock it to and CDs or money to buy songs from the net to actually use the item. The kid might want get the IPOD but the gift cannot be used.

I haven't seen anyone address this. Maybe some of the posters that have posted that they work with the angel trees or community agencies or schools can explain if an MP3 player is a good gift? I would be happy to buy one but don't you need a computer with internet access as well as funds to buy music for the player? Also if the child receives a wii, a lot of the cool wii games are $50 or more. Guitar hero alone is like $100. So do you think it is okay to give the gift if you can't afford to give all the supporting items?? It's almost like it would be more of a disappointment for the kids in a way.

 

[maxiesmom]

I thought Angel Trees were not for needs, but for wants. When I buy my children Christmas gifts, I want them to be excited when they open them. My soon to to 8 year old really wants an ipod, and I can't wait to see her face. Ds10 only wants a trick bike and legos, and he's getting them. Dd12 is going to love her Juicy hoodie. It's the Christmas magic, getting things they wouldn't get any other time of the year.

I remember the year my mom got ds a new comforter - he couldn't wait to open that big package, and the look on his face when he did Just because these kids are poor, doesn't mean they're going to get excited over new scarves and mittens. However, to get something, a want, instead of a need, for Christmas, that their parents would never be able to afford, is, IMHO, what the Angel Tree is for. They're children.

I thought that the trees were to give a gift to a child who would otherwise have nothing for Christmas. Asking for a toy is fine. Asking for one that costs $100 is way out of line.

When I was a child we didn't have much money, so getting any kind of toy as a gift was the exception, not the rule. Even the gifts we got from other family members were things like sweaters or pants or socks. I was absolutely thrilled if I opened any kind of toy. It wouldn't have had to cost a lot of money to make me happy.

It makes me cringe that something that is set up to help kids who are less fortunate seems to have turned into a money grab.

 

[Mkaz]

But the kids...yeah, they're going to dream and ask, just like I did with the Sears Book when I was little and my list was 10 pages long.

I'm not going to comment on the topic. However, I remember my sister and I doing this with the Montgomery Ward book. My mom used to look at our lists and shake her head. We knew we wouldn't be getting anything close to what was on our lists. But hey, little girls can dream can't they?

 

[mamalle]

understand the frustration and disgust you fill but at the same time, remember that *poor* kids and families want the same things that we have. How sad that a 13 year old may only get a new sweater while her friends have MP3 players or the other hot things out there. MP3 fyi can now be bought relatively cheap ($30). Its one thing to say that the parents should be responsible and "be happy" with any help they may get, but these kids don't know any different other than to ask for what they truly want. Christmas is all about that.

exactly my thoughts.. they are no different from my children and their christmas wants.. Come on... If you can give them that special more pricey gift off of their wish list- that is great. If not pick another child that may not want something so expensive.. Im practical for mine that we have bought for: they both are getting clothes AND getting the item they listed on their wish list.. I believe in santa and hoping to keep the spirit alive with what we are doing for these kids.. Its the spirit of the season and I hope we are making these kids smile come christmas morning..