Running/knees question

[bunnyfoo]

I'm slowly working my way towards the 2009 Half Marathon and I've been on the treadmill about 3 times a week since the beginning of the month. I've been doing a 30 minute interval training program and in the last week worked up to running for 10 minutes straight. Since then, I noticed my left knee has been noticeably weaker - it's the same feeling I get when I've walked around WDW for the whole day, a crampy tired feeling. My (left) knee has also started making cracking/popping noises when I walk around which it never really did before. I iced my knee and it feels a little better but I still have a slight weak/tired feeling. Strangely enough, my right leg is perfectly fine.

Have I done too much too soon? I don't think I'm running particularly fast but the walking I'm doing in between is on a slight incline. I also used an elliptical trainer and did pilates prior to December so I don't think I'm completely out of shape. I thought maybe it was my shoes but I've only use them on the elliptical trainer.

I skipped Wednesday night to give myself a rest. I'm just wondering if I should do my run again this weekend. I don't want to fall behind but I don't want to injure myself either.

My doctor is on vacation for the rest of the month and then fully booked the first three weeks of January. I also tried to get in touch with my friend who is a doctor but he's on vacation for the next two weeks as well. So I have no idea if this is normal or I should be cutting back.

Any advice/thoughts would be most appreciated. Sorry for the long post

 

[cewait]

Bunnyfoo,

I am not sure where you are coming from training wise…. It kind of sounds in your post like you just started running the first of the month? If that is the case your thought of too much too soon may apply. You also don’t say how much if any you are running outside. The left leg issue seems to indicate that you have outdoor miles and run in the street facing on coming traffic. The lower leg’s knee tends to take the abuse due to the camber of the road.

First your knee issues. The popping creaking sound is known as crepitus. It’s not healthy but in no way is it serious either unless it is accompanied by pain. For the most part it’s a sign of aging and possible arthritis. The weak feeling in the knee seems to indicate you may be in the beginning stages of patella femoral syndrome; otherwise known as runner’s knee. As long as it is not painful I would continue working through the half.

It would not hurt to get a new pair of shoes especially if your current ones are getting up in miles. Though if you do get a new pair at this time, make sure that you get at least one if not two longer training runs in them before the half.

I would continue with your training AS LONG AS PAIN IS NOT PRESENT. Also, do not take NSAID’s to treat the feeling in the knee as they can mask the pain. Ice and elevate the knee after every training session.

After the half you need to perform a little therapy on the knee. More than likely you have a slight muscular imbalance which pulls the knee cap off track as you stride. Your IT band and outer quads are probably overly tight while the inner quad (vastus medialis oblique VMO) is weak. First, if it continues visit your doctor to clear anything else out of the way. They will evaluate the condition of the knee and can be much more thurough than this. If they find this to be the case, more than likely he will prescribe PT where you will work on the inner leg muscles and learn how to better stretch out the outer muscles.

If you can get into the doctor just before the half and the issue is continuing he may prescribe a “J” brace. It’s a neoprene sleeve with a cut out in the knee area. The cutout is lined with a “J” or “U” shaped pad that rides under the patella. You slide the tight feeling sleeve up, positioning the pad and then pull two straps tight. The pad helps to keep the patella in track while you run.

If you can’t or if you want to try a sleeve, go to your pharmacy and look for a knee sleeve. You want one with some neoprene in it and at some stores you may find one with a cut out. For the most part the over the counter sleeves will not position the patella but they will offer therapeutic assistance. The neoprene will warm the knee, increase blood flow and keep the knee feeling a little better.

This may no be a lot of help and seem random in thought. I hope it helps. You should be fine but do not go into a pain mode.

 

[bunnyfoo]

Thanks for the advice Charles! I have a while before the 2009 half at WDW so I'm not too worried yet. I'm running on a treadmill for now - I think it's too snowy/icy where I live to run outdoors. I'm waiting until it warms up before I go outside. My friend who's a runner as well mentioned that I would have a difficult time with my ankles if I only used my treadmill for training. (He's away for the Christmas break as well so I can't ask him about my knee either)

I picked up a sleeve earlier in the week but it's a cloth one with splints on the side. It helps but not easy to wear under work clothes or walking up and down stairs I'll see if I can go back and get a neoprene one until I can get into see a doctor.

I don't know if I'd call what I have now a pain or just a weak/tired feeling. I think I will take it easy this weekend. I looked up some knee and thigh exercises so I'll give those a try.

I got a big "I told you so... Don't run..." lecture from a manager in my group and one of our vendors. It just makes me want to get back to running even more

 

[Dennyha]

In addition to the great advice from Charles, I'd also like to note the value of the right running shoes. After running for about a year and a half, I started to have continual discomfort in my left knee. When I lived in Ohio, my running store told me I should use a neutral shoe, and I have ever since. Having recently moved to Charlotte, we went to a new running store, where they re-evaluated me, both in store and running outside on the sidewalk, and by two different sales associates, and both recommended that I use a shoe with some extra support. After trying about 6 pairs of shoes, and them evaluating my run in each of them, we settled on a pair of Asics 2120's. My knee problems have totally disappeared. Don't get me wrong, after a LR, both of my knees get sore for a day or so, but I don't have the continual discomfort and aches that I had before in my left knee.

I was ready to visit a sports doctor, and with the new shoes, I have no need. It's always a pleasant surprise to learn the problem can be fixed with an equipment change instead of PT or doctor visits.

 

[cewait]

Thanks for the advice Charles! I have a while before the 2009 half at WDW so I'm not too worried yet. I'm running on a treadmill for now - I think it's too snowy/icy where I live to run outdoors. I'm waiting until it warms up before I go outside. My friend who's a runner as well mentioned that I would have a difficult time with my ankles if I only used my treadmill for training. (He's away for the Christmas break as well so I can't ask him about my knee either)

I picked up a sleeve earlier in the week but it's a cloth one with splints on the side. It helps but not easy to wear under work clothes or walking up and down stairs I'll see if I can go back and get a neoprene one until I can get into see a doctor.

I don't know if I'd call what I have now a pain or just a weak/tired feeling. I think I will take it easy this weekend. I looked up some knee and thigh exercises so I'll give those a try.

I got a big "I told you so... Don't run..." lecture from a manager in my group and one of our vendors. It just makes me want to get back to running even more

In that case, rest and let you knee heal up a bit. Like Dennyha said visit a running store and let them evaluate your stride if you have not done that already.

Next...don't listen to the naysayers. Most are enablers who are too afraid to engage in a fitness routine and do not want their "friend" to leave them. Ha! There I said it!

I would engage a trainer for a couple months this winter if you are running in a gym. Talk to them and let them know what your goals are. Most of us really want to help folks get to their end game. You my friend have plenty of time to get to the half. Working with a trainer today may help balance out the legs, shed some weight and create an even more positive outlook. You WILL have a positve support person if nothing else.

In the mean time, take a couple weeks off and heal. Start back with 2-3 treadmill workouts a week, no more. Walk first to warm up and then work you way into a run. It's not bad to walk 4 minutes and run 1 minute as your start. Alway set the treadmill to a 1.5-2% incline and run in teh middle of the belt, not up at the front near the controls. You will not fall of any quicker running in the middle and will give yourself more room for a natural stride.
After the run stretch. You will want to focus on quads, IT band, Glutes, hams and calves.

 

[JJ721]

In addition to the great advice from Charles, I'd also like to note the value of the right running shoes. After running for about a year and a half, I started to have continual discomfort in my left knee. When I lived in Ohio, my running store told me I should use a neutral shoe, and I have ever since. Having recently moved to Charlotte, we went to a new running store, where they re-evaluated me, both in store and running outside on the sidewalk, and by two different sales associates, and both recommended that I use a shoe with some extra support. After trying about 6 pairs of shoes, and them evaluating my run in each of them, we settled on a pair of Asics 2120's. My knee problems have totally disappeared. Don't get me wrong, after a LR, both of my knees get sore for a day or so, but I don't have the continual discomfort and aches that I had before in my left knee.

I was ready to visit a sports doctor, and with the new shoes, I have no need. It's always a pleasant surprise to learn the problem can be fixed with an equipment change instead of PT or doctor visits.

Couldn't agree more with Denny. Not only is it important to have the right shoe, but it is just as critical to replace worn out shoes.

 

[Tiger Lily 03]

...Next...don't listen to the naysayers. Most are enablers who are too afraid to engage in a fitness routine and do not want their "friend" to leave them. Ha! There I said it!

Definitely do not worry about those that will pull you down.

You've been given fantastic advice and have plenty of time to get a good base formed.

I love the idea of a personal trainer if you can do that. You will love the torture, ummmm help that you will have.

 

[Sandy321]

does anyone else take... glucosomine?? DH is a runner, but he swears by this for his joint pain - I understand that the knee is a specific pain right now - and I have btdt - the shoes were a big help for me - I went to a specific running shoe store, and they had me on a treadmill, then brought out shoes to meet my needs...

but somehow I think I twisted my knee, went left, but my knee went right.. all this a few weeks before my first ever 5K - I got a knee brace and it really helped!! I took it easy, took advil, and iced it, ran slower with the brace (from the drugstore - it had a hole for the kneecap, and velcroed to hold on!)

Good luck - stay positive!!

 

[Dennyha]

When we went to the Columbus Distance Classic, there was a Q&A by a team of medical and training professionals. The subject of glucosomine came up. The advice given was that glucosomine is effective in reducing joint pain in joints with arthritis. Joint pain due to the trauma of running, without arthritis, is not helped by glucosomine, according to the doctors at this expo. I guess the trick is knowing if arthritis is a contributor to your problem.

 

[cewait]

When we went to the Columbus Distance Classic, there was a Q&A by a team of medical and training professionals. The subject of glucosomine came up. The advice given was that glucosomine is effective in reducing joint pain in joints with arthritis. Joint pain due to the trauma of running, without arthritis, is not helped by glucosomine, according to the doctors at this expo. I guess the trick is knowing if arthritis is a contributor to your problem.

Hmmmm!

Let's see, joint pain without arthritis = injury. Yep I would say the doc is correct.

Studies do indicate that there is benefit in taking Glucosamine for arthritic conditions. Essentially, the Glucosamine helps to create a lubricating effect to the cartilage reducing the friction associated with the rough bone surfaces of an arthritic joint.

Note the Glucosamine does not work for all arthritis sufferers either. I do find that it works for me. It’s not like taking a NSAID, you do have to take the supplement for 2-3 months to have an effect in the joint. For me there is a noticeable change in meniscus thickness over the last 5 years. You could say Glucosamine did it, but I really think it has a lot to do with weight loss.

Here’s another supplement that may help joint pain when taken long term and your grandmother would be proud. Omega 3 (Fish oil) is an anti-inflammatory. Whoa, you mean I can take fish oil for joint pain? Well, it not quite that simple but taking the supplement (or getting enough through the consumption of cold water fish) does give the body a little more ability to fight inflammation. That’s one of the reasons it works in the cardio system as it diminishes inflammation in the blood vessels. See Grandma did know a thing or two.

 

[bunnyfoo]

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone!

I went in for a shoe fitting at a running store and boy do the new shoes make a difference! It feels strange to say but it seems like I have more energy when I run in them I noticed they didn't have many Nike shoes there which is what I was using before. In talking to my friends who play sports, they seem to feel it's more of a fashion shoe. The running store also has running clinics which I'm going to try in a month or so (or at least once it warms up).

Running in the middle of the treadmill also makes a big difference! I was resting my iPod in one of the cubbies but I've since picked up a clip so that I don't have to run right up against the front.

My knee still clicks when I've been sitting for long periods of time but they don't hurt - I notice it's not as comfortable when I walk down stairs but I'm going to bring it up with my doctor when I see her in a couple of weeks. I also want to talk to her about the supplements before I give them a try.

 

[Sandy321]

WAY TO GO BUNNY!!

(and I found that the glucosomine was too hard to swallow, but now someone is manufacturing it in liquid form!!)

 

[bunnyfoo]

WAY TO GO BUNNY!!

(and I found that the glucosomine was too hard to swallow, but now someone is manufacturing it in liquid form!!)

I think I know the product that you're talking about! I saw a commercial for it last night... it was a fruity drink that had glucosamine in it. I can't remember the product name or the website address. I suspect I won't see it on store shelves for a while though because the ad was on an American channel I'm not very good with big pills either.

 

[jmpellet]

I just returned from running the 1/2 and I trained solely on a treadmill. I'm more sore than I was on my 11 mile run. Specifically my ankles. I use Asics 2120's also and I love them. I have a pretty bad clicking knee from a car accident many years ago. My knee was sore at about mile 9 and the biofreeze helped.

 

[AuntieM03]

I just returned from running the 1/2 and I trained solely on a treadmill. I'm more sore than I was on my 11 mile run. Specifically my ankles. I use Asics 2120's also and I love them. I have a pretty bad clicking knee from a car accident many years ago. My knee was sore at about mile 9 and the biofreeze helped.

Congratulations! It's good to know about the treadmill, I plan on doing the bulk of my training for the Disneyland 1/2 on a treadmill.

 

[bunnyfoo]

I just returned from running the 1/2 and I trained solely on a treadmill. I'm more sore than I was on my 11 mile run. Specifically my ankles. I use Asics 2120's also and I love them. I have a pretty bad clicking knee from a car accident many years ago. My knee was sore at about mile 9 and the biofreeze helped.

What's biofreeze? Sorry to be such a newbie

 

[Cruella de mom]

its a chemical that you rub on sore legs. It gets very cold and helps keep the ache away.

Ask questions - it makes me feel like I know what I am doing.

 

[solotraveler]

its a chemical that you rub on sore legs. It gets very cold and helps keep the ache away.

Ask questions - it makes me feel like I know what I am doing.

And it's FABULOUS!! I am a biofreeze convert after this weekend!!!

That said, apparently it is not commercially available, except to hospitals and race organizers. So I guess you can say it's like Icy Hot... just way better....

Kevin

 

[r3ngels]

You guys are great! I love this thread...