Rumors that Disney is in negotiations to sell Star Wars back to George Lucas!

[nancipants]

The best part is the look Luke and Leia give each other after this. It's so "twin."

 

[nancipants]

Yeah, and I don't understand how it is that Luke doesn't come off like THE MAN in that scene. He totally does!

I have a lot of issues with Luke in the ST but everything that happens on Crait is not one of them. It is everything I ever wanted from Luke. (I wish he wouldn't have died afterward, but we've already discussed that. )

 

[mdmost]

I hesitate to post this because I know what's about to happen with a certain person but I think The Last Jedi would've been better received if someone had told Rian Johnson to tone down how far he went with things. Don't have Luke toss the lightsaber over his shoulder, don't have him completely dismiss Rey, have more moments of him talking with Rey about Han, don't have him be as caustic as he was. I get all of the why of how Luke was but there needed to be more explanation to it. That said, Luke has a history of just casually tossing his lightsaber to make a point.

I think Rian felt the audience was going to get it all and that was a misjudgment. I think the Rey and Kylo parts were fantastic. I think the Luke training Rey portion was great because it was filled with natural skepticism of whether having Force wielders was a good thing. It's like the idea in Civil War that the Avengers are actually making things worse at times because they don't think about the collateral damage they are creating. The idea that the Jedi were so arrogant that they missed the rise of the Empire right under their noses is pretty much what Lucas was trying to demonstrate in the prequels. The throne room battle was one of the best in the series though he should've fixed the knife dude having a free hand against Rey. I like that he was actually trying to do something different instead of just making a reboot/homage like JJ.

After seeing Across the Spider-verse, I really wish Lord and Miller had been allowed to finish Solo, simply to see what their version would've been. But again, we want safe with our Star Wars.

 

[BrianL]

I hesitate to post this because I know what's about to happen with a certain person but I think The Last Jedi would've been better received if someone had told Rian Johnson to tone down how far he went with things. Don't have Luke toss the lightsaber over his shoulder, don't have him completely dismiss Rey, have more moments of him talking with Rey about Han, don't have him be as caustic as he was. I get all of the why of how Luke was but there needed to be more explanation to it. That said, Luke has a history of just casually tossing his lightsaber to make a point.

I think Rian felt the audience was going to get it all and that was a misjudgment. I think the Rey and Kylo parts were fantastic. I think the Luke training Rey portion was great because it was filled with natural skepticism of whether having Force wielders was a good thing. It's like the idea in Civil War that the Avengers are actually making things worse at times because they don't think about the collateral damage they are creating. The idea that the Jedi were so arrogant that they missed the rise of the Empire right under their noses is pretty much what Lucas was trying to demonstrate in the prequels. The throne room battle was one of the best in the series though he should've fixed the knife dude having a free hand against Rey. I like that he was actually trying to do something different instead of just making a reboot/homage like JJ.

After seeing Across the Spider-verse, I really wish Lord and Miller had been allowed to finish Solo, simply to see what their version would've been. But again, we want safe with our Star Wars.

Really, I think they just needed to flesh out the scenes at the Jedi Academy a bit, so that we understood clearly all of the motivations involved with Luke, Ben, etc. For me it didn't require much of a leap, but a lot of fans just couldn't connect the dots.

 

[mdmost]

Really, I think they just needed to flesh out the scenes at the Jedi Academy a bit, so that we understood clearly all of the motivations involved with Luke, Ben, etc. For me it didn't require much of a leap, but a lot of fans just couldn't connect the dots.

Well, I don't blame some for hating it. It was not "their Luke Skywalker". We've had 20+ years of EU Luke doing all sorts of heroic stuff. That's what some people wanted to see. It's kinda ironic that Luke pretty much says, "what do you expect me to do, stand in front of the First Order and defeat them with my laser sword". Yeah, that's what some really wanted even though Hamill was in no shape to do that. I think what Luke did at the end was completely fitting and realistic for someone his age. I think the ST was always going to have Luke die, much like Yoda and Obi Wan.

 

[BrianL]

Well, I don't blame some for hating it. It was not "their Luke Skywalker". We've had 20+ years of EU Luke doing all sorts of heroic stuff. That's what some people wanted to see. It's kinda ironic that Luke pretty much says, "what do you expect me to do, stand in front of the First Order and defeat them with my laser sword". Yeah, that's what some really wanted even though Hamill was in no shape to do that. I think what Luke did at the end was completely fitting and realistic for someone his age. I think the ST was always going to have Luke die, much like Yoda and Obi Wan.

And in the end, he still faced downt he First Order - just not in an expected way. It was still cool though, especially once you realize all the little tells, like him not leaving footprints.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I agree with a good bit of what is said recently in this thread. I knew Luke would die, it makes perfect sense and it needed to happen to pass the torch. I just didn't care for how it was done. I simply wanted my childhood hero to be respected and admired one last time and then to die a proper hero's death. I didn't feel like that is what occurred, but I understand others think it did. I respect your opinions, but at the end of the day I saw and felt what I saw and felt. I simply saw a Luke that I played with action figures of first when like 6 years old, turn into someone that like was said above was not my Luke Skywalker.

My expectations were probably just way too high, and I should have known Hollywood would screw it up, because today they commonly screw it up.

 

[HokieRaven5]

And int he end, he still faced downt he First Order - just not in an expected way. It was still cool though, especially once you realize all the little tells, like him not leaving footprints.

That, him appearing as the last look that Kylo physically saw while training, wielding the lightsaber that Kylo believes is his birthright all serve to further enrage Kylo and cloud his judgment of the truth that Luke isn’t actually there.

 

[BrianL]

That, him appearing as the last look that Kylo physically saw while training, wielding the lightsaber that Kylo believes is his birthright all serve to further enrage Kylo and cloud his judgment of the truth that Luke isn’t actually there.

Yes - I was even wondering about the blue lightsaber - I thought, shouldn't he have the green one? That's one of the tells, and one of the very well-crafted aspects of the movie.

 

[BrianL]

I agree with a good bit of what is said recently in this thread. I knew Luke would die, it makes perfect sense and it needed to happen to pass the torch. I just didn't care for how it was done. I simply wanted my childhood hero to be respected and admired one last time and then to die a proper hero's death. I didn't feel that is what occurred, but I understand others think it did. I respect your opinions, but at the end of the day I saw and felt what I saw and felt.

You know, I know it has a lot to do with feelings, which is why these arguments tend to never go anywhere. It is true that when I generally like a movie, I will forgive some "mistakes" but if I don't like it, I will nitpick everything. I mean, I let the MCU movies get away with stuff that I would call out DC for, because overall I like the movies and the vibe they lay down. DC is already off on a bad foot, so I won't accept when they make small leap.

As for Luke, it seems to me that everyone in the movie did respect him. They were desperate to find him, they were all happy to meet/see him. Now, outside of the movie, I think that's where perceived disrespect comes from. It's improtant to remember though that all of these people are Star Wars fans - really they are. Maybe they didn't come through for you, but they certianly didn't intend that outcome.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

But that's where I disagree with you. I don't think the way Rian Johnson treated the fans on twitter was in any way indicative of someone who is a Star Wars fan and who respects the passion of other Star Wars fans. It simply came across like I got to make the decisions, and I don't give a crap what others think. I also don't feel like Johnson even cared that Hamill had major concerns about Luke not behaving in any way consistent to the character. Johnson was very dismissive to everyone, and just did what he wanted to do. I don't see how that can be seen any other way from that, unless you believe that Johnson was simply carrying out a written script that someone else was forcing him to adhere to?

 

[BrianL]

But that's where I disagree with you. I don't think the way Rian Johnson treated the fans on twitter was in anyway indicative of someone who is a Star Wars fan and who respects the passion of other Star Wars fans. It simply came across like I got to make the decisions, and I don't give a crap what others think.

But you're a Star Wars fan and basically say the same things. All of us fans have our opinions about it. I don't think Rian has any problem with fans that didn't attack him, you know? I can't much blame him for lashing out against all the vitriol.

 

[nancipants]

I hesitate to post this because I know what's about to happen with a certain person but I think The Last Jedi would've been better received if someone had told Rian Johnson to tone down how far he went with things. Don't have Luke toss the lightsaber over his shoulder, don't have him completely dismiss Rey, have more moments of him talking with Rey about Han, don't have him be as caustic as he was. I get all of the why of how Luke was but there needed to be more explanation to it. That said, Luke has a history of just casually tossing his lightsaber to make a point.

I think Rian felt the audience was going to get it all and that was a misjudgment. I think the Rey and Kylo parts were fantastic. I think the Luke training Rey portion was great because it was filled with natural skepticism of whether having Force wielders was a good thing. It's like the idea in Civil War that the Avengers are actually making things worse at times because they don't think about the collateral damage they are creating. The idea that the Jedi were so arrogant that they missed the rise of the Empire right under their noses is pretty much what Lucas was trying to demonstrate in the prequels. The throne room battle was one of the best in the series though he should've fixed the knife dude having a free hand against Rey. I like that he was actually trying to do something different instead of just making a reboot/homage like JJ.

I agree with most of your post. I will say that while the Rey and Kylo stuff is good, one of my biggest problems with the movie is that it felt like Rian Johnson relegated Poe and Finn to side plots in order to focus on Kylo.

 

[mdmost]

I agree with most of your post. I will say that while the Rey and Kylo stuff is good, one of my biggest problems with the movie is that it felt like Rian Johnson relegated Poe and Finn to side plots in order to focus on Kylo.

Oh sure. I think that's a reason he killed Snoke so quickly, which I was fine with because he was unnecessary especially since JJ just decided to plop him in with zero backstory.

I think if anyone has a right to be upset with their treatment in the movies, it's John Boyega. Even from the get-go where it was teased he was a possible Jedi. I think letting him sacrifice himself would've been better than what was written for him in the latter movies.

Poe was never meant to have a larger role but Oscar Isaacs just killed it so they decided not to kill him off.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I agree with most of your post. I will say that while the Rey and Kylo stuff is good, one of my biggest problems with the movie is that it felt like Rian Johnson relegated Poe and Finn to side plots in order to focus on Kylo.

I agree with you on that point. I really felt like Finn in particular had huge potential, that they basically did nothing with. What a cool character arc from being a storm trooper to this.

 

[nancipants]

Yes. John Boyega was billed (and written) in TFA as the secondary protagonist. I often wonder what would have happened if he had gone with Rey to train.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I still believe TLJ will go down in history as one the most divisive movies ever made. Seeing that was at least part of Rian Johnson's goal was to "Subvert Expectations", I would say he was a massive success in this area:

https://movieweb.com/divisive-movies/#the-tree-of-life

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yes. John Boyega was billed (and written) in TFA as the secondary protagonist. I often wonder what would have happened if he had gone with Rey to train.

Even movie posters with him wielding a lightsaber if I remember correctly.

 

[HokieRaven5]

For me personally Poe and Finn got what they needed to out of The Last Jedi. I never thought of Finn holding the lightsaber as nothing more than another JJ puzzle box to create speculation.

Poe goes from a trigger happy flyboy to a leader who makes more sound decisions. He has Leia and Holdo acting as 2 sides of the coin for that. Leia somewhat tries to coax him back from being a fly boy but also enables him, Holdo challenges him to trust leadership and planning.

Finn’s arc is one where he has to go from one just trying to get to Rey and get away from the FO vs becoming a true fighter for the resistance. For him he has DJ and Rose providing him 2 sides to choose from. DJ represents not joining the fight and just acting in your own interest, Rose is someone fighting for a cause and trying to convince him to join after she sees what she once thought was a hero trying to run from the FO.

 

[BrianL]

For me personally Poe and Finn got what they needed to out of The Last Jedi. I never thought of Finn holding the lightsaber as nothing more than another JJ puzzle box to create speculation.

Poe goes from a trigger happy flyboy to a leader who makes more sound decisions. He has Leia and Holdo acting as 2 sides of the coin for that. Leia somewhat tries to coax him back from being a fly boy but also enables him, Holdo challenges him to trust leadership and planning.

Finn’s arc is one where he has to go from one just trying to get to Rey and get away from the FO vs becoming a true fighter for the resistance. For him he has DJ and Rose providing him 2 sides to choose from. DJ represents not joining the fight and just acting in your own interest, Rose is someone fighting for a cause and trying to convince him to join after she sees what she once thought was a hero trying to run from the FO.

One thing I will stand on is that Holdo is a terribly example of leadership. She doesn't trust her own people and chooses sanctimony over engendering confidence. She almost got her whole crew killed. I am however absolutely fine with that. Having an officer that butts heads with the rank and file is common in military dramas. She's a "cake eater" plain and simple. The only thing I don't like is how she tries to make herself out as right to Leia in the end and be all like, "Oh, I like Poe too," despite her actions.