Rumor by agent - Blue Card min. going up

CraigInPA

Since June 1974
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I think they would have a harder time because a larger group would be impacted and there possibly could be a legal challenge. Its why I think Disney will never retroactively take anything away. They will grandfather you in so they never have a legal judgement as honestly they don't really gain that much by taking it away anyways. Its all about future sales with them.
Since the perks aren't guaranteed, there is likely to be no legal challenge. However, the hugely negative postings of fanatical previously-grandfathered DVC members about DVC taking away privileges would hit DVC's reputation hard. Those postings, like just about everything on the Internet, will come up for years, and perhaps decades, on a google search. That kind of negativity suppresses future sales, which is why I don't expect them to ever remove any "grandfathering" of perks.
 

Brian Noble

Gratefully in Recovery
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
I'm not as convinced as some that grandfathering is something you can bet the farm on. On the other hand, it doesn't matter until it does---and at that point you can decide what if anything you want to do about it.
 

RichVIII

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
I would bet that overall direct purchasers in recent years who purchased very small contracts are the least satisfied members based on surveys. Why do I say this? The most vocal purchasers (on every board, Facebook, etc.) are those who bought 50 points planning on going every third year with banking and borrowing planning on staying at AKL Value Studio at 7 months. Now that startegy is even harder with borrowing restrictions. They were sold this pixie dust dream and their 50-150 points at RIV now only get them a few days.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Since the perks aren't guaranteed, there is likely to be no legal challenge. However, the hugely negative postings of fanatical previously-grandfathered DVC members about DVC taking away privileges would hit DVC's reputation hard. Those postings, like just about everything on the Internet, will come up for years, and perhaps decades, on a google search. That kind of negativity suppresses future sales, which is why I don't expect them to ever remove any "grandfathering" of perks.
Oh I know they could remove them from everyone. I am saying picking and choosing. So as an example if they decided tomorrow that moving forward any resale contract that was ever sold only got to book at 9 months while direct points would be allowed to book at 11 months.

Example of this is how in legal contracts on resale it is now outlined that you are excluded from Riviera booking and future resorts.

I also would be interested in historical direct contracts if there was verbiage around Disney being able to remove the transferrable aspect of membership benefits. Does anyone have an older direct contract at OKW, BWV, ect?
 

CastAStone

Math and business nerd. Not an insider.
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
So as an example if they decided tomorrow that moving forward any resale contract that was ever sold only got to book at 9 months while direct points would be allowed to book at 11 months.
I don’t know if people realize that there are non-DVC timeshares that do this.
 

CarolMN

DVC Co-Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 18, 1999
Oh I know they could remove them from everyone. I am saying picking and choosing. So as an example if they decided tomorrow that moving forward any resale contract that was ever sold only got to book at 9 months while direct points would be allowed to book at 11 months.
Not a good example to support your point.

AFAIK, there is nothing in any of the Position Offering Statements for the legacy 14 resorts that would allow DVC to treat owners differently for booking purposes based on how they acquired their points. For booking windows, an owner is an owner is an owner. While I am not a lawyer, I do not believe that is something Disney can unilaterally change.

They could only do something like this with new DVC resorts (and for the new resort only) that have that language included in the resort's POS document
 

Brian Noble

Gratefully in Recovery
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
I don’t know if people realize that there are non-DVC timeshares that do this.
I'm trying to think of which ones do. There are several for which access at all is different for developer vs. secondary purchases. For example, the Wyndham/WorldMark Club Pass crossover is only available for Developer points. This is similar to how only developer points can be used for Disney Collection reservations in DVC. As another example, Diamond and Marriott points-based ownership revert to the underlying deed only and are withdrawn from the larger club on resale, much as Riveria deeds are structured now.

I'm not sure I know of one in which when you can book changes based on resale/retail, vs. whether you can book. Maybe the Margaritaville resorts within the Wyndham system? I forget whether or not the timelines for those are different retail vs. resale.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Not a good example to support your point.

AFAIK, there is nothing in any of the Position Offering Statements for the legacy 14 resorts that would allow DVC to treat owners differently for booking purposes based on how they acquired their points. For booking windows, an owner is an owner is an owner. While I am not a lawyer, I do not believe that is something Disney can unilaterally change.

They could only do something like this with new DVC resorts (and for the new resort only) that have that language included in the resort's POS document
Except in the original contracts and resale contracts 10-20 years ago were the points/membership outlined as different? I suspect not if people who bought resale 10 years ago supposedly got a blue card?

Maybe I misunderstand and older resale contracts didn't get blue cards?
 

CarolMN

DVC Co-Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 18, 1999
Except in the original contracts and resale contracts 10-20 years ago were the points/membership outlined as different? I suspect not if people who bought resale 10 years ago supposedly got a blue card?

Maybe I misunderstand and older resale contracts didn't get blue cards?
Not sure I understand your question. Blue cards relate to qualifying for the perks and discounts (aka Membership Extras ) not paid for via annual dues and not part of the DVC contracts. Membership cards have nothing to do with booking windows, which are governed by the POS.
 

sethschroeder

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Not sure I understand your question. Blue cards relate to qualifying for the perks and discounts (aka Membership Extras ) not paid for via annual dues and not part of the DVC contracts. Membership cards have nothing to do with booking windows, which are governed by the POS.
No my question was originally your blue card was transferred with reselling your contract. Then one day that was no longer the question correct? Like 10 years go if you bought resale you got a blue card?

So there had to have been something in the contract about the blue card transferring that was then amended/changed.

Also looking at the contract it says Disney can change it however they would like but as a home resort I must be given at least 1 month of priority over non home owners. It does not say the method of purchasing points does or does not equal priority.

If someone has a contract from 10-15 years ago it would be interesting to see how Section V2 has changed as well.

2. Club Member Benefit Programs. From time to time, DVD, Buena Vista Trading Company, DVC Operator, or their affiliates may establish special Club Member benefit programs to enhance membership for Club Members. Participation in any Club Member benefit program is completely voluntary. These special programs are not a component of or an appurtenance to any Ownership Interest or Additional Ownership Interest. Some or all Club Member benefit programs may be limited, modified, canceled, or terminated at any time. In addition, some or all of Club Member benefit programs may be offered solely with respect to Ownership Interests purchased and owned by Club Members who purchased the Ownership Interests directly from DVD and these special programs, including those benefits marketed as incidental benefits under Section 721.075, Florida Statutes, may not be hypothecated, bought, sold, exchanged, rented, or otherwise transferred, except upon written approval of DVD, and are solely for the original Club Member’s benefit and not for the benefit of that Club Member’s assigns or successors-in-interest. If a Club Member sells the Club Member’s Ownership Interest, these benefit programs do not automatically transfer to the Club Member’s buyer. The availability of these benefit programs may or may not be renewed or extended to such assigns or successors-in interest.
It also states they can choose to change the contract at their discretion and it may even hamper enjoyment or value of ownership.

I don't really know but I guess I just don't see how it restricts them from doing this if they really wanted to.
 

Where'sPiglet?

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
No my question was originally your blue card was transferred with reselling your contract. Then one day that was no longer the question correct? Like 10 years go if you bought resale you got a blue card?

So there had to have been something in the contract about the blue card transferring that was then amended/changed.

Also looking at the contract it says Disney can change it however they would like but as a home resort I must be given at least 1 month of priority over non home owners. It does not say the method of purchasing points does or does not equal priority.
I do not believe it was so much that a "blue card" transferred ownership, but more that they did not make a distinction on where you purchased your points.
You either owned points and were a full member, or you weren't.
 

D-Trick

Go Raiders.
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
No my question was originally your blue card was transferred with reselling your contract. Then one day that was no longer the question correct? Like 10 years go if you bought resale you got a blue card?
PP Piglet is correct.
 

MICKIMINI

Love the Mouse!
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
I got confirmation today that the minimum is going to 125 at the end of September. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the rumors were correct.
 

MICKIMINI

Love the Mouse!
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Yes. I believe it to be true and have no reason to doubt him...it's a bummer for anyone wanting to buy in the near future.
 

CastAStone

Math and business nerd. Not an insider.
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
I got confirmation today that the minimum is going to 125 at the end of September. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the rumors were correct.
Bleeeeegh. Ok I guess I have a timeline to make the resale purchase that will determine my UY.
 

CastAStone

Math and business nerd. Not an insider.
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Those 2019 points are a big bonus and with a late summer UY, hopefully you can get a trip in next year...
It almost makes me want to make my direct purchase first (which is probably the point). The problem is I want to buy August, Sept, or Oct, and while I don't really care which, the direct contract I want is SSR, but the resale contract I want to buy is BCV and those are by far the 3 least common UYs for BCV.

Blergh.
 

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