Rumor Alert: ADR's

I don't think I said or implied that! I was just making a statement that other places do this also. Not just Disney. The argument about popularity is a separate beast.

I was just extending my metaphor... that is not as dirty as it sounds. There are places that can get the cc hold, there are places that can get $9 for a warm beer, we call those places baseball stadiums.

some restaurants in WDW can get the cc hold... most cannot.
 
I just don't see a dinner reservation in the same line as a concert ticket, plane ticket, or hotel reservation.

I will reserve judgement on the implementation until it is actually implemented. And hope that they do it in a way that does leave some wiggle room.

I have to agree. If you get stuck in traffic going to a concert, you can still go to the concert if you are half an hour or even an hour late, not true for an ADR, same with a hotel reservation, you can check in at 11am or 11pm and they don't charge you if you are late. And at concerts, you purchased that seat and it is guaranteed, they don't fill your seat with someone else if you don't show up.
 
I was just extending my metaphor... that is not as dirty as it sounds. There are places that can get the cc hold, there are places that can get $9 for a warm beer, we call those places baseball stadiums.

some restaurants in WDW can get the cc hold... most cannot.

One might argue that every Disney restaurant is as popular or more popular that most any restaurant in major cities.
 
You are trying to discount logic by calling it a theory.

At busy times of year all the restaurants are busy and reservations are important because with out one you have no chance of getting seated, this is when demand exceeds supply. When demand exceeds supply the credit card hold doesn't matter, the seats will be filled even at lousy restaurants.

At lower occupancy times of year when supply exceeds demand the credit card hold doesn't matter because you can walk into the lousy restaurants and be seated. At lower occupancy times of year the locations that are always busy, will still be busy... the cc hold doesn't matter because they don't take walk ups and everyone is showing up for the reservations that were made 6 months ago.

It is hard to get reservations at some locations no matter the time of year. The credit card hold doesn't matter because people keep the reservation they made 6 months prior, and if there does happen to be an extra table they can fill it with a walk up. The busy locations get walk up requests even when Disney Dining is telling them there is no availability. The lousy locations where people didn't feel a need to keep the reservation don't get the walk ups because they are lousy restaurants. People will just take Disney Dinings word for it because the place is not worth the effort to walk over and ask for a walk up..

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

I called Disney Dining to see if we could get an ADR for Spoodles. Disney Dining tells me Spoodles is completely booked.

We drive to Spoodles to try and get a walk up. The place is empty. The manager says that this is a frequent occurence. People make reservations and if the weather is too nice, they decide to stay in the park. If it rains they go somewhere else.

I have no idea how many other people called Disney Dining on that day looking for Spoodles, but they were told that Sppodles was completely booked solid.

If even one guest was discouraged from dining at Spoodles because of this....Disney is going to see this as a problem and fix it

The discussion of whether the food is good or bad or it's high season or low season or if this guy ROI you keep talking about is there or not... is irelevant.

Guests calling Disney Dining as they are supposed to, are being told that there is no availability. This has noothing to do with the errant walk up. They are not being turned away.

So the day of... when people start not showing up, there are frantic calls of folks trying to book? If it is a nice day, and the location has no drawing power, they could put characters in costumes and parade them around and still not get a crowd... oh wait, they did that at liberty tree tavern... lousy food, couldn't draw a crowd, throw in some characters, bang you have a busy place where people keep their reservations. So again, even if Spoodles were to delete all the reservations on the books, and show availability, it would still not be busy because it does not have drawing power on a nice day. If Spoodles didn't take reservations and was a walk up, it would not be busy on a nice day because it does not have drawing power. Just because it is a theory doesn't make it any less true.

No one has said anything about frantic calls and again, the discussion of quality is irelevant.

now I hope they do goto credit card hold for every reservation... just so I can say I told you so. gravity, relativity, and evolution are all theory... pretty sound theories I would add.

Are you comparing your restaurant theory to the theories of gravity, relativity and evolution?

Maybe schools will start teaching it as part of restaurant science. ;)
 

So how about them Marlins? Think they'll go all the way? popcorn::
 
You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

The world is a complex place, full of complex problems. Very few of the world's problems can be solved in a sound byte. You are not taking into account unintended consequences and drawing the wrong conclusions from the spoodles example. If you have no one showing up for reservations, does it matter if you show availability or not? These are people that took the time to pick up the phone and make the reservation all not showing up that the same time. You think it is because they did not show availability that the restaurant is empty? Did a full restaurant's worth of people all double book Spoodles as their back up plan? Or could it be that when it is nice, people don't leave the parks early to walk 20 min. to diner?

I called Disney Dining to see if we could get an ADR for Spoodles. Disney Dining tells me Spoodles is completely booked.

We drive to Spoodles to try and get a walk up. The place is empty. The manager says that this is a frequent occurence. People make reservations and if the weather is too nice, they decide to stay in the park. If it rains they go somewhere else.

I have no idea how many other people called Disney Dining on that day looking for Spoodles, but they were told that Sppodles was completely booked solid.

It is a great story and you tell it so well, but it does not mean the reservations system is systemically flawed.

Are you comparing your restaurant theory to the theories of gravity, relativity and evolution?

yes

Maybe schools will start teaching it as part of restaurant science. ;)

They do teach it in university, it is called econometrics. It is part of most masters programs for anything related to business

http://web.econ.ohio-state.edu/courses/900.htm

there have been a few recent books on the topic...

Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions

Sway

The Logic of Life

Pick two, get them on audible. Or go though the masters program at Ohio State. Or go though the Culinary Program at Johnson & Wells here in Charlotte. I brought this topic up to some high caliber minds today, two of whom used to be Executive Chefs at WDW, all agree that the result would not be more availability at the busy restaurants and the cost is substantially more than the perceived benefit. And that no one wants to leave the parks and walk 20 min. to eat at a mediocre restaurant at 5pm when they can eat mediocre food in the park.

No one has said anything about frantic calls and again, the discussion of quality is irelevant.

the Spoodles story is the irrelevant factor. you are using a rationalizing argument from the narrow to the broad. the restaurant would have been empty if disney dining showed availability. The restaurant was not empty because Disney Dining was showing no availability. the restaurant was empty because no one wants to leave the parks to have dinner at 5pm on a nice day.

I try to use examples to illustrate the situation more clearly... What is the number of people that called Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm and were turned away? I am guessing the number is statistically irrelevant. What happened in your situation does not cost justify the expenditure to take a CC hold for every restaurant. I have stated many times, the places that are not busy will still not be busy... the places that are busy will still be busy. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement that you are overlooking.


The discussion of whether the food is good or bad or it's high season or low season or if this guy ROI you keep talking about is there or not... is irelevant.

For a company that is interested in maximizing profits, they are not going to spend the money to make this happen with out seeing a Return On Investment. The change you suggest would not have the practical result you insist that it would. This is not Theory, it is the practical application of self interest. No one will plunk down a credit card with the possibility of getting hit with a $20 per person penalty (which is the current average for the restaurants at WDW doing the CC hold) for a majority of the restaurants in WDW. Those that can command that fee, already do. The places that would have availability because no one is going to make a reservation with that high a penalty already have availability from the people not showing up for their reservations. No one that knows enough about how to double book is going to use Spoodles as a back up choice. Putting cc hold in place will result in restaurants like spoodles being empty with an empty reservations book instead of a full reservations book. They can take you as a walk up either way... but there are not going to be walk ups at Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm because those people are in the parks. the money to train and implement staff, and ramp up back end servers to accept the load is a waste... This analysis is over simplified for the sake of brevity. But once again... the restaurants that are busy and hard to get reservations, will still be busy and hard to get reservations.
 
The world is a complex place, full of complex problems. Very few of the world's problems can be solved in a sound byte. You are not taking into account unintended consequences and drawing the wrong conclusions from the spoodles example. If you have no one showing up for reservations, does it matter if you show availability or not? These are people that took the time to pick up the phone and make the reservation all not showing up that the same time. You think it is because they did not show availability that the restaurant is empty? Did a full restaurant's worth of people all double book Spoodles as their back up plan? Or could it be that when it is nice, people don't leave the parks early to walk 20 min. to diner?



It is a great story and you tell it so well, but it does not mean the reservations system is systemically flawed.



yes



They do teach it in university, it is called econometrics. It is part of most masters programs for anything related to business

http://web.econ.ohio-state.edu/courses/900.htm

there have been a few recent books on the topic...

Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions

Sway

The Logic of Life

Pick two, get them on audible. Or go though the masters program at Ohio State. Or go though the Culinary Program at Johnson & Wells here in Charlotte. I brought this topic up to some high caliber minds today, two of whom used to be Executive Chefs at WDW, all agree that the result would not be more availability at the busy restaurants and the cost is substantially more than the perceived benefit. And that no one wants to leave the parks and walk 20 min. to eat at a mediocre restaurant at 5pm when they can eat mediocre food in the park.



the Spoodles story is the irrelevant factor. you are using a rationalizing argument from the narrow to the broad. the restaurant would have been empty if disney dining showed availability. The restaurant was not empty because Disney Dining was showing no availability. the restaurant was empty because no one wants to leave the parks to have dinner at 5pm on a nice day.

I try to use examples to illustrate the situation more clearly... What is the number of people that called Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm and were turned away? I am guessing the number is statistically irrelevant. What happened in your situation does not cost justify the expenditure to take a CC hold for every restaurant. I have stated many times, the places that are not busy will still not be busy... the places that are busy will still be busy. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement that you are overlooking.




For a company that is interested in maximizing profits, they are not going to spend the money to make this happen with out seeing a Return On Investment. The change you suggest would not have the practical result you insist that it would. This is not Theory, it is the practical application of self interest. No one will plunk down a credit card with the possibility of getting hit with a $20 per person penalty (which is the current average for the restaurants at WDW doing the CC hold) for a majority of the restaurants in WDW. Those that can command that fee, already do. The places that would have availability because no one is going to make a reservation with that high a penalty already have availability from the people not showing up for their reservations. No one that knows enough about how to double book is going to use Spoodles as a back up choice. Putting cc hold in place will result in restaurants like spoodles being empty with an empty reservations book instead of a full reservations book. They can take you as a walk up either way... but there are not going to be walk ups at Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm because those people are in the parks. the money to train and implement staff, and ramp up back end servers to accept the load is a waste... This analysis is over simplified for the sake of brevity. But once again... the restaurants that are busy and hard to get reservations, will still be busy and hard to get reservations.


While I'm certainly glad that you enjoy my Spoodles story, at no point have I suggested that I know how to fill a mediocre restaurant at 5:00pm.

I have suggested that if a guests is told restaurant Z has no availability due to reservations being filled, they will go elsewhere. If the case is that the restaurant is not actually filled for whatever reason, this is a problem.

While I havent asked any high caliber minds or ex Disney castmembers whether this is true or not, as a business owner, I would see it as a problem.

Turning away business is not good for business and having guests (even one)hear from an employee looking at a computer screen 10 miles away that a restaurant is showing no availability will discourage that guest from visiting you establishment.

This means that you not only have an empty restaurant, you have a guest that was interested going somewhere else.

As I said already, that's bad for business.
 
Isn't the bottom line not simple logic but what will make Disney more money?

I can like the potential collateral consequnce all I want but if the bean counters at Disney conclude this will make them an extra $ a year, and marketing likes it (due to "guest demand"), all the good or bad consequences to me mean zilch.

If it happens, and remember this is a rumor (so far as I last heard), I expect a test run at several of the more popular locations before (if) it is implemented at all locations. Some may never require cc for a reservation.
 
While I'm certainly glad that you enjoy my Spoodles story, at no point have I suggested that I know how to fill a mediocre restaurant at 5:00pm.

I have suggested that if a guests is told restaurant Z has no availability due to reservations being filled, they will go elsewhere. If the case is that the restaurant is not actually filled for whatever reason, this is a problem.

While I havent asked any high caliber minds or ex Disney castmembers whether this is true or not, as a business owner, I would see it as a problem.

Turning away business is not good for business and having guests (even one)hear from an employee looking at a computer screen 10 miles away that a restaurant is showing no availability will discourage that guest from visiting you establishment.

This means that you not only have an empty restaurant, you have a guest that was interested going somewhere else.

As I said already, that's bad for business.

HIJACK:

KEVIN!!! You're POSTING!!! How are you doing? Did you have your surgery?
 
I have time to kill waiting for the DR to call.

I'm doing ok....not in any pain......just a bit scared and nervous, buut better than yesterday when I learned all of this.

Just waiting for them to schedule surgery. This would have been done last night had we not stopped and gotten lunch on the way to the Retina specialist.

Trying to keep my head busy.....
 
I was wondering if you were supposed to be on the computer? - sorry its the nurse in me.
 
I have time to kill waiting for the DR to call.

I'm doing ok....not in any pain......just a bit scared and nervous, buut better than yesterday when I learned all of this.

Just waiting for them to schedule surgery. This would have been done last night had we not stopped and gotten lunch on the way to the Retina specialist.

Trying to keep my head busy.....

It is good to hear that you are able to post! :thumbsup2

Just don't go jump rope or play Wii or something. :lmao:
 
I'm glad to hear you're doing okay, Kevin. Ugh, waiting can be the hardest part of these things! It would be much easier to just get it done immediately without giving your imagination time to run wild. (At least that's how it is with me.)

Here's a little feel better soon gift: :flower3:
 
I have time to kill waiting for the DR to call.

I'm doing ok....not in any pain......just a bit scared and nervous, buut better than yesterday when I learned all of this.

Just waiting for them to schedule surgery. This would have been done last night had we not stopped and gotten lunch on the way to the Retina specialist.

Trying to keep my head busy.....
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
 
I have time to kill waiting for the DR to call.

I'm doing ok....not in any pain......just a bit scared and nervous, buut better than yesterday when I learned all of this.

Just waiting for them to schedule surgery. This would have been done last night had we not stopped and gotten lunch on the way to the Retina specialist.

Trying to keep my head busy.....

Hang in there Kevin. We're here for ya. :grouphug:
 





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