ROFR Thread Oct to Dec 2022 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[HIRyeDVC]

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[HIRyeDVC]

By your logic the government owns my paid off house because if I don't pay my property taxes, they will seize it. You say you don't want to argue semantics, but saying people with a mortgage don't own their property is just playing sematic games. If we want to get technical, When I had a mortgage, it was my name on the deed and title. I was the owner by any definition, legal or otherwise. The bank was the lien holder, which means if I default, they can become the owner.

I suppose I have a different view of “ownership through financing” than most people. My only point was that people trying to sell underwater properties like some RR owners essentially own nothing because they haveto come up with additional money just to get out of their contracts.

 

[Nursemanit]

That is not what Monera’s website says.

I also just went to the IRS website :https://www.irs.gov/publications/p936#en_US_2022_publink1000229912

Guess what, no mention of the timeshare needing to be week vs points. Nor would that be consistent with language for mixed use rentals.

Here is what it states:

• You file Form 1040 or 1040-SR and itemize deductions on Schedule A (Form 1040).
• The mortgage is a secured debt on a qualified home in which you have an ownership interest. Secured Debt and Qualified Home are explained later.

Secured Debt​

You can deduct your home mortgage interest only if your mortgage is a secured debt. A secured debt is one in which you sign an instrument (such as a mortgage, deed of trust, or land contract) that:

• Makes your ownership in a qualified home security for payment of the debt;
• Provides, in case of default, that your home could satisfy the debt; and
• Is recorded or is otherwise perfected under any state or local law that applies.

Qualified Home​

For you to take a home mortgage interest deduction, your debt must be secured by a qualified home. This means your main home or your second home. A home includes a house, condominium, cooperative, mobile home, house trailer, boat, or similar property that has sleeping, cooking, and toilet facilities.

The interest you pay on a mortgage on a home other than your main or second home may be deductible if the proceeds of the loan were used for business, investment, or other deductible purposes. Otherwise, it is considered personal interest and isn't deductible.

Time-sharing arrangements.


You can treat a home you own under a time-sharing plan as a qualified home if it meets all the requirements. A time-sharing plan is an arrangement between two or more people that limits each person's interest in the home or right to use it to a certain part of the year.

HOWEVER

Rental of time-share.


If you rent out your time-share, it qualifies as a second home only if you also use it as a home during the year. See Second home rented out, earlier, for the use requirement. To know whether you meet that requirement, count your days of use and rental of the home only during the time you have a right to use it or to receive any benefits from the rental of it.

This is why I use a tax attorney- none of the sections you are referring to are on point. You do not have any real estate ownership in DVC so it does not qualify ( even your article from the IRS mentions these qualifications) .

DVC is considered personal property by the IRS not real estate.

 

[DonMacGregor]

This is why I use a tax attorney- none of the sections you are referring to are on point. You do not have any real estate ownership in DVC so it does not qualify ( even your article from the IRS mentions these qualifications) .

DVC is considered personal property by the IRS not real estate.

I'm having a hard time seeing how claiming the property tax as a deduction is really going to move anyone's needle significantly anyway. I mean, my average taxes for 2023 come out to +/- $1.50 per point, or $675.00 for 2023. Now, if someone has say 2,000 points, then you're looking at $3K, but between the IRS cap on annual tax deductions, and AMT, I have to believe anyone shelling out dues on large amounts of points isn't going to see any benefit from trying to add their DVC property taxes to the mix. Plus, at the end of the day, it's a deduction, not a credit.

 

[Nursemanit]

I'm having a hard time seeing how claiming the property tax as a deduction is really going to move anyone's needle significantly anyway. I mean, my average taxes for 2023 come out to +/- $1.50 per point, or $675.00 for 2023. Now, if someone has say 2,000 points, then you're looking at $3K, but between the IRS cap on annual tax deductions, and AMT, I have to believe anyone shelling out dues no large amounts of points isn't going to see any benefit from trying to add their DVC property taxes to the mix. Plus, at the end of the day, it's a deduction, not a credit.

100% agree not worth it but it is not specifically forbidden.

What I was discussing was attempting to claim the loan interest on a leasehold right to use timeshare program. The term timeshare means something different to the IRS than how we use it. IRS thinks a timeshare is owning 1/52 shares in real property in perpetuity ( fractional ownership) this is how the majority of timeshares were before DVC and other leasehold programs.

 

[DonMacGregor]

100% agree not worth it but it is not specifically forbidden.

What I was discussing was attempting to claim the loan interest on a leasehold right to use timeshare program. The term timeshare means something different to the IRS than how we use it. IRS thinks a timeshare is owning 1/52 shares in real property in perpetuity ( fractional ownership) this is how the majority of timeshares were before DVC and other leasehold programs.

Yeah. I was assuming the debate had morphed into discussing mortgages, more as "evidence" that the property is "owned" and therefore property taxes are deductible, rather than whether mortgage interest is deductible.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Yeah. I was assuming the debate had morphed into discussing mortgages, more as "evidence" that the property is "owned" and therefore property taxes are deductible, rather than whether mortgage interest is deductible.

I miss ROFR discussions. If only there were more ROFR activities these days.

 

[shand32783]

I was so thrilled to see a couple more pages of price updates/ROFR monster posts and such only to have just scrolled through 3 pages of tit for tat comments and now I'll never see that 10 mins the same way again. Happy Holidays everyone.

 

[Teeesa]

Teeesa---$150-110-PVB-Dec-220/22, 110/23, 110/24-seller pays 2022 dues- sent 11/28 passed 12/22!!

 

[Samfar]

That’s a great buy .. congratulations!!

 

[AstroBlasters]

This is why I use a tax attorney- none of the sections you are referring to are on point. You do not have any real estate ownership in DVC so it does not qualify ( even your article from the IRS mentions these qualifications) .

DVC is considered personal property by the IRS not real estate.

Monera’s loans are recorded as a mortgage loan. They issue a 1098 that shows mortgage interest. The documents reference that you are buying into a condominium association. The IRS website says that timeshares are eligible. Monera puts on their website that it is tax deductible.

 

[Nursemanit]

Monera’s loans are recorded as a mortgage loan. They issue a 1098 that shows mortgage interest. The documents reference that you are buying into a condominium association. The IRS website says that timeshares are eligible. Monera puts on their website that it is tax deductible.

Monera does not say they are tax deductible they say consult your tax attorney.

the IRS does not consider DVC a timeshare so when it says timeshare it is not referring to DVC

 

[Sandisw]

Lets please get back to the topic and off the argument regarding interest and taxes.

 

[Ad12345]

Lets please get back to the topic and off the argument regarding interest and taxes.

Thank you.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Happy Holidays

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Reality has not set in yet for sellers that a recession is coming in 2023. DVD seems to have though by not ROFR contracts since they don't want to get stuck having to pay maintenance fees for units they cannot sell or might not even be able to rent out. Prices have been dropping but they have more to go before they hit bottom. I myself will be looking to add later in 2023 if the prices drop low enough.

Timing the market is hard. Prices are really low right now because of annual dues season. I’d say the only shot of significantly cheaper prices would be annual dues season next year (so a year from now), but a lot can happen between now and then and prices could rebound. This “recession” has been coming for the last 10 years. Nobody really knows what is going to happen. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t.

 

[Bearval]

Timing the market is hard. Prices are really low right now because of annual dues season. I’d say the only shot of significantly cheaper prices would be annual dues season next year (so a year from now), but a lot can happen between now and then and prices could rebound. This “recession” has been coming for the last 10 years. Nobody really knows what is going to happen. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t.

The recession has already started, the government just hasn't officially announced it yet. Mortgage rates have gone from sub 3% to over 6%. People with adjustable mortgages are going to see their rates rise by 2% at their next adjustment and maybe another 2% the year after. Cost of cars, food and energy has soared but salaries have not. People will cut back and already have for luxury items and DCV will be one they cut back on. If you have to sell your DVC you will have fewer buyers and prices will drop. You are already seeing RIV offered for resale at less than $130 and AKV at less than $110 listed on resale sites.

 

[tom1944]

The recession has already started, the government just hasn't officially announced it yet. Mortgage rates have gone from sub 3% to over 6%. People with adjustable mortgages are going to see their rates rise by 2% at their next adjustment and maybe another 2% the year after. Cost of cars, food and energy has soared but salaries have not. People will cut back and already have for luxury items and DCV will be one they cut back on. If you have to sell your DVC you will have fewer buyers and prices will drop. You are already seeing RIV offered for resale at less than $130 and AKV at less than $110 listed on resale sites.

I have not followed the data closely but by definition a recession is two consecutive drops in GDP. Have we had two consecutive drops?

Interest rates my cause a drop in GDP but higher interest rates are not a definition of a recession

 

[Bearval]

I have not followed the data closely but by definition a recession is two consecutive drops in GDP. Have we had two consecutive drops?

Interest rates my cause a drop in GDP but higher interest rates are not a definition of a recession

Our 2nd consecutive negative GDP was this summer of 2022 . We are currently headed for a third.

 

[tom1944]

Our 2nd consecutive negative GDP was this summer of 2022 . We are currently headed for a third.

CBO Shows the 3rd quarter GDP was higher than the second quarter GDP