ROFR Thread Oct to Dec 2021 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[JGINPL]

jginpl---$130-$3890-25-SSR-Feb-0/20, 0/21, 24/22, 25/23- sent 11/9

 

[Sandisw]

Have you noticed whether there are any qualitative factors that influence this? Obviously the big variables that everyone focuses on are resort, price per point, points available, and contract size. But have we noticed whether they're more or less aggressive based on factors like Use Year, international seller, seller-subsidized closing costs, etc.?

Nope. I have not every found any pattern. I have bought and sold contracts with the delayed closings mention above and not once did my ROFR take longer than the typical timeframe others were getting without those delayed closing.

Prior to 2020, most often they were responding in that 30 days. Since the shut down it has mostly been longer but times where it hasn’t. Right now, many come back in 3 weeks or so!

 

[Ginamarie]

I saw an AKV resale contract at $179 today! But I think it might have been a misprint because the contract price didn't add up right. But yes, I'll try a few more times with AKV to see if Disney is just buying back aggressively. If it seems hopeless with AKV, I'm going for Riv instead. At $150 or so per point for a swanky resort near Epcot that I can use till 2070, it's looking like a good deal. Despite the restrictions and the fact that I'll be 101 when the contract ends....

At some point they’re going to ease up on buying AKV and move onto somewhere else.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Nope. I have not every found any pattern. I have bought and sold contracts with the delayed closings mention above and not once did my ROFR take longer than the typical timeframe others were getting without those delayed closing.

Prior to 2020, most often they were responding in that 30 days. Since the shut down it has mostly been longer but times where it hasn’t. Right now, many come back in 3 weeks or so!

I find the open-ended timeline extremely frustrating. I don't mind spending $20,000 on this contract. I do mind having $20,000 tied up in an open-ended commitment for a product I might not even end up with. I feel like Disney could hire a team of Deloitte consultants for a 60 day engagement to develop an algorithm that makes optimized ROFR decisions instantly. Licensed real estate agents could pop a contract's information into a portal and it wouldn't require a single second of labor on Disney's part. Everybody wins. Buyers, sellers, agents, and Disney all come out ahead.

 

[DaveNan]

I find the open-ended timeline extremely frustrating. I don't mind spending $20,000 on this contract. I do mind having $20,000 tied up in an open-ended commitment for a product I might not even end up with. I feel like Disney could hire a team of Deloitte consultants for a 60 day engagement to develop an algorithm that makes optimized ROFR decisions instantly. Licensed real estate agents could pop a contract's information into a portal and it wouldn't require a single second of labor on Disney's part. Everybody wins. Buyers, sellers, agents, and Disney all come out ahead.

Not sure if it is intentional, but this entire process could be intentionally uncertain and long. The more uninviting and uncertain buying resale is, the better buying direct becomes. We have seen several cases of buyers on this thread coming to the conclusion that the resale process was so long and frustrating, and that the direct price was worth it. Who knows maybe Deloitte did a study and the proposed process was this one. Disney is not out to develop a process that is efficient and effective for the resale buyers....... They want one that is efficient and effective for direct buyers.

Sad reminder of who the customer is (and isn't).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Disney is not out to develop a process that is efficient and effective for the resale buyers.......

If I'm them, I'm not speeding up this process to give resale buyers the warm and fuzzies, I'm speeding up this process so I can lay off an army of staffers and eliminate piles of paperwork. There are bottom-line cost savings incentives on their end.

 

[BamaGuy44]

If I'm them, I'm not speeding up this process to give resale buyers the warm and fuzzies, I'm speeding up this process so I can lay off an army of staffers and eliminate piles of paperwork. There are bottom-line cost savings incentives on their end.

Problem is, they could have the automatic algorithm, and still stretch out the process. They wouldn't have to pass that time savings on to the resale buyers, and it wouldn't be in their interest to do so.

 

[Lorana]

Lorana---$188-$9883.10-50-CCV@WL-Sep-62/21, 50/22, 50/23-seller pays MF '21- sent 11/9

I know I'm paying a premium for small contracts, but I want the flexibility to sell off small amounts in the future if needed, and this was also almost loaded with seller paying 2021 dues. We want to build up our CCV points, as we are thinking of maybe selling our BRV within 10 years to get some return on those contracts (though who knows, maybe in 10 years we decide to ride it out), but still want to stay at the Wilderness Lodge. We also figure that unless we have grandkids by then that we're taking, we likely will be beyond the point we're trying to squeeze us plus our kids into studios and so we won't need the fifth sleeper and can be fine in the CCV Studios/1BRs/2BRs. And if we decide then we DO want to ride BRV out, then small CCV contracts allow us to sell off some CCV contracts, if that's what we decide to do. For me, it's combining savings from direct with flexibility against future needs.

 

[Sandisw]

If I'm them, I'm not speeding up this process to give resale buyers the warm and fuzzies, I'm speeding up this process so I can lay off an army of staffers and eliminate piles of paperwork. There are bottom-line cost savings incentives on their end.

They don't have a set policy and the rules change all the time on purpose. The goals of what they want change and to be honest, from the info I have gotten over the years, it is meant to be a process not easily figured out. If it was, they would simply publish the floor each month ahead of time.

They want the ability to buy things at whatever price meets the reason for buying and there are plenty of them. Yes, as a resale buyer, we are at their mercy and most, if not all brokers, refuse to put a closing date in shortly after the 30 day mark. As someone who has sold, I personally liked having at least 60 days to get the contract closed to allow for issues in getting to the notary...just in case.

I do not believe they have a ton of people who make these decisions, etc. so I am not sure its a ton of cost cutting. Let's be honest, they achieve that now. Lots of cuts during the past 18 months and they simply took their time to give decisions, which is why in 2020, many brokers went to 90 days for closing...some may still do that.

 

[dado4]

14.1.2 DVD Right of First Refusal. If an Owner desires to sell, transfer, assign or hypothecate that Owner's Unit or Ownership Interest, DVD has the right of first refusal to acquire the Unit or Ownership Interest in the Unit under the same terms and conditions as are offered to or by a bona fide third party, including financing, and in accordance with the following:

14.1.2.1 Owners desiring to transfer their Unit or Ownership Interest must notify DVD in writing no less than thirty (30) days in advance of the proposed transfer date of their intent to transfer and must include a copy of the proposed transaction reduced to writing in all respects. Such notice shall include the full terms and conditions of the transfer, and the full name and primary address of the prospective true transferee (as distinguished from agents and intermediaries). Such notice of intent to sell shall be sent to DVD for verification at to the attention of Membership Administration, at 1390 Celebration Boulevard, Celebration, FL 34747, or such other department or address as may be designated by DVD for this purpose from time to time

14.1.2.2 After receipt of such written notice, DVD may determine prior to the proposed transfer date whether to exercise its right of first refusal set forth in this Section 14.1.2. If DVD elects to exercise its right of first refusal, DVD must notify the Owner in writing of such election, and the transfer to DVD must be completed on or before the proposed transfer date.

14.1.2.3 If DVD fails to notify the Owner or Cotenant of its election to exercise its right of first refusal prior to the proposed transfer date, then the Owner or Cotenant may proceed to complete the transfer with such bona fide third party on terms or conditions substantially similar to terms or conditions that were offered to DVD in the notice, including at a price not lower than offered to DVD, if applicable. Should, however, such transfer to a third party not be properly consummated within four (4) months after the date the notice is transmitted to DVD, the terms and limitations of this Section 14.1.2 shall again be imposed on any transfer by the Owner.

14.1.2.4 The provisions of this Section 14.1.2 shall not apply to transfers under powers contained in mortgages and similar instruments or to transfers upon the death of an Owner, a divorce decree, a gift or bequest of an Ownership Interest from an Owner to the Owner's spouse or descendants, to the trustee of a trust or other entity established primarily for the benefit of the Owner or the Owner's spouse or descendants, or to the Owner's legal guardian, but the provisions of thisSection 14.1.2 shall apply to any further assignment (whether voluntarily, by operation of law, at judicial sale, or otherwise) by such Owner's spouse, other heirs or devisees, such trustees, or such guardian to the same extent that such provisions would have applied to the Owner. processing of this right of first refusal.

14.1.2.5 DVD may impose an administrative charge in connection with the waiver

So if the company set the closing up for 31 days and DVD didn't exercise its RoFR then closing can go ahead and it's considered sold? Why don't more companies set up closing for 31 days from contract submittal?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So if the company set the closing up for 31 days and DVD didn't exercise its RoFR then closing can go ahead and it's considered sold? Why don't more companies set up closing for 31 days from contract submittal?

I'm reading between the lines here, but it sounds like the brokerage companies are in thrall to Disney and wouldn't dare rock the boat in that regard.

 

[Sandisw]

So if the company set the closing up for 31 days and DVD didn't exercise its RoFR then closing can go ahead and it's considered sold? Why don't more companies set up closing for 31 days from contract submittal?

Because, ROFR aside, it takes time to get it closed. I passed ROFR once in 6 days. It still took about another 3 weeks to get closing documents to use and it took my seller a few weeks to get the documents notarized. We closed in about 5 to 6 week timeline, even though the date was 60 days.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Because, ROFR aside, it takes time to get it closed. I passed ROFR once in 6 days. It still took about another 3 weeks to get closing documents to use and it took my seller a few weeks to get the documents notarized. We closed in about 5 to 6 week timeline, even though the date was 60 days.

But there's no reason it HAS TO take that long. If you're paying cash and you, the seller, and the broker all agree, there's no reason why you couldn't do all of those steps much faster.

 

[Sandisw]

But there's no reason it HAS TO take that long. If you're paying cash and you, the seller, and the broker all agree, there's no reason why you couldn't do all of those steps much faster.

Except, as a seller, you have to get things notarized. If the date is so quick, and something happens to delay a seller getting the documents back, the buyer can walk. Of course, closing date aside, it can close if everything is in on time.

But, as I mentioned, I would not have wanted a date that close to the 30 day mark.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Lorana---$188-$9883.10-50-CCV@WL-Sep-62/21, 50/22, 50/23-seller pays MF '21- sent 11/9

I know I'm paying a premium for small contracts, but I want the flexibility to sell off small amounts in the future if needed, and this was also almost loaded with seller paying 2021 dues. We want to build up our CCV points, as we are thinking of maybe selling our BRV within 10 years to get some return on those contracts (though who knows, maybe in 10 years we decide to ride it out), but still want to stay at the Wilderness Lodge. We also figure that unless we have grandkids by then that we're taking, we likely will be beyond the point we're trying to squeeze us plus our kids into studios and so we won't need the fifth sleeper and can be fine in the CCV Studios/1BRs/2BRs. And if we decide then we DO want to ride BRV out, then small CCV contracts allow us to sell off some CCV contracts, if that's what we decide to do. For me, it's combining savings from direct with flexibility against future needs.

Love all your justification. Though, all you had to say was, "It's CCV!" My only regret is that I wish I had bought a guaranteed week in December. It scares me to one day fight for a room to stay during the holidays.

 

[Lorana]

Love all your justification. Though, all you had to say was, "It's CCV!"

Well, yes, it's CCV! My only worry is that they WILL build Reflections, and then I'll regret not having more points I can use there...
We are staying there in late December, and I cannot wait to go back to our home (we're also going over Thanksgiving with my SIL & family, but we're not visiting the WL on that trip). We just stayed at the "original Wilderness Lodge" (Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone), so I'm also excited to walk back into the Wilderness Lodge and mentally compare the two. My husband tells me I'm the most lovable dork that I bought an Old Faithful Inn shirt to wear into the Wilderness Lodge when we return. ;-)

Love all your justification. Though, all you had to say was, "It's CCV!" My only regret is that I wish I had bought a guaranteed week in December. It scares me to one day fight for a room to stay during the holidays.

That is the one thing I am SO glad we did, as we took advantage of those 2020 incentives to get fixed week #48 so we don't have to fight to get a room over the holidays. Though I confess I want #49 more, but we wanted the week after Thanksgiving in case we make visiting over Thanksgiving with my SIL a thing (we HAD planned on it being an annual trip, but if the Sorcerer's Pass continues to black out Thanksgiving, we may rethink those future plans).

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Well, yes, it's CCV! My only worry is that they WILL build Reflections, and then I'll regret not having more points I can use there...
We are staying there in late December, and I cannot wait to go back to our home (we're also going over Thanksgiving with my SIL & family, but we're not visiting the WL on that trip). We just stayed at the "original Wilderness Lodge" (Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone), so I'm also excited to walk back into the Wilderness Lodge and mentally compare the two. My husband tells me I'm the most lovable dork that I bought an Old Faithful Inn shirt to wear into the Wilderness Lodge when we return. ;-)


That is the one thing I am SO glad we did, as we took advantage of those 2020 incentives to get fixed week #48 so we don't have to fight to get a room over the holidays. Though I confess I want #49 more, but we wanted the week after Thanksgiving in case we make visiting over Thanksgiving with my SIL a thing (we HAD planned on it being an annual trip, but if the Sorcerer's Pass continues to black out Thanksgiving, we may rethink those future plans).

Very smart move. At least I have the 11 month advantage. If I ever plan to stay during the holidays, I guess I'll be walking with the best of them! Let the best walker win! WRT to Reflections, I think they will eventually build something there. I just hope it will be more in line with the theme of WL and Fort Wilderness and not some rehab like Pete Werner says.

 

[squirrel!33]

Squirrel!33---$135-$29437-200-BWV-Dec-0/20, 0/21, 200/22- sent 10/20, passed 11/8

 

[ivieanne]

ivieanne---$150-$16437-100-AKV-Dec-200/21, 100/22, 100/23-International Seller- sent 10/20, passed 11/9

Paid a premium, but it was the contract we wanted.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

Well, yes, it's CCV! My only worry is that they WILL build Reflections, and then I'll regret not having more points I can use there...
We are staying there in late December, and I cannot wait to go back to our home (we're also going over Thanksgiving with my SIL & family, but we're not visiting the WL on that trip). We just stayed at the "original Wilderness Lodge" (Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone), so I'm also excited to walk back into the Wilderness Lodge and mentally compare the two. My husband tells me I'm the most lovable dork that I bought an Old Faithful Inn shirt to wear into the Wilderness Lodge when we return. ;-)


That is the one thing I am SO glad we did, as we took advantage of those 2020 incentives to get fixed week #48 so we don't have to fight to get a room over the holidays. Though I confess I want #49 more, but we wanted the week after Thanksgiving in case we make visiting over Thanksgiving with my SIL a thing (we HAD planned on it being an annual trip, but if the Sorcerer's Pass continues to black out Thanksgiving, we may rethink those future plans).

Your signature is back! NINE home resorts?! That's fantastic!

I have not stayed at Old Faithful Inn, but I have stayed at the newer Snow Lodge that is at Yellowstone - it was years ago. Now I want to go back.

A fixed week at CCV was a wise choice.