ROFR Discussion Thread

[VGCgroupie]

Between the higher pricing without being able to negotiate, the pushback, and having to use a specific title company for the reimbursement of points, it would be hard for me to use DVCRM as a buyer.

100% Not sure why so many make excuses for poor agent attitude either. Pair that with highest prices and forcing a title co its and go for me. But I understand I am the exception not the normal.

 

[VGCgroupie]

So, I was on another thread and I somehow looped my self into the county foreclosure page. I have never claimed to be a genius at math or the knowledge of dvc. But I have read enough on DIS that I could figure out who the owner was and look up what they owned for each foreclosure. I have to find the math thing that will tell how much .0254 means in points. There was small dollar amounts & larger amounts. If someone knows how to do this and can find if any back dues are owed, it could be a pretty good deal.
There were a lot of other timeshares being foreclosed on. Not as many Disney as I thought I would see. People either have a lot of deeds or they are the renters. That pops up too. One guy I was like wow.

There is a post here how to convert that, but it would take me bit to find it. If you don't figure it out ping me in 3 weeks and I will find it since its on my to do list anyway

 

[VGCgroupie]

I know DVCRM has the "missing points guarantee"...

shouldn't it come up through the title process or something that the points/contract isn't billed as advertised? I'm trying to figure out in practice what that would mean... if I was using one of the other brokers that didn't have that "guarantee"... how does that work?

They aren't the only broker with this guarantee. Other brokers don't force a title co on you either to have it. Maybe its slightly different but I have seen other brokers make good and pay out for missing points so in my eyes its just as good as DVCRM.

 

[Sandisw]

100% Not sure why so many make excuses for poor agent attitude either. Pair that with highest prices and forcing a title co its and go for me. But I understand I am the exception not the normal.

Some of us are just reporting that our experiences with some of those same people and brokers were not negative.

I have been in a situation with others who have viewed something completely differently than the rest of us.

Obviously, no one needs to use any specific broker if they don’t want to.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

They aren't the only broker with this guarantee. Other brokers don't force a title co on you either to have it. Maybe it’s slightly different but I have seen other brokers make good and pay out for missing points so in my eyes it’s just as good as DVCRM.

Fidelity was $25/point. Anyone know what DVCRM is?

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

100% Not sure why so many make excuses for poor agent attitude either. Pair that with highest prices and forcing a title co its and go for me. But I understand I am the exception not the normal.

Guess I’m the exception too. Sometimes it’s better to not follow the group lol.

 

[airjay75]

Fidelity was $25/point. Anyone know what DVCRM is?

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Fidelity guarantees anything. Their contract does specify how much you’re entitled to from the seller if there are missing points but that does not obligate Fidelity to do anything. Now, they could step in as a gesture of good will - I don’t know if it’s them or other brokers, but there are stories of brokers other than DVCRM doing that. But, to my knowledge, only DVCRM advertises that guarantee (although have not seen the language they put in the actual contract).

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Fidelity guarantees anything. Their contract does specify how much you’re entitled to from the seller if there are missing points but that does not obligate Fidelity to do anything. Now, they could step in as a gesture of good will - I don’t know if it’s them or other brokers, but there are stories of brokers other than DVCRM doing that. But, to my knowledge, only DVCRM advertises that guarantee (although have not seen the language they put in the actual contract).

I think you’re right that it’s the seller’s responsibility. But since it’s in a contract, it’s legally binding. Would probably be a mess, but hoping it would deter people at least.

 

[Sandisw]

I think you’re right that it’s the seller’s responsibility. But since it’s in a contract, it’s legally binding. Would probably be a mess, but hoping it would deter people at least.

Most reported cases get resolved in some way. There is at least one title company that holds the seller’s proceeds until the buyer verifies everything is correct.

I don’t know if they still do but with DVCRM, a buyer doesn’t need to worry about the seller having to refund because they step in and cover it.

I personally have closed with several title companies, and to be honest, my experiences and timelines were all similar.

But, as a buyer, if you are paying closing costs, you get to choose the title company you want and many here on the boards do have their favorites!

 

[Brian Noble]

shouldn't it come up through the title process or something that the points/contract isn't billed as advertised?

Exactly, and DVC Resale Market won't guarantee it unless you use Magic.

Most reported cases get resolved in some way.

You can't know until the points are loaded, and that's after the deed has been filed and the transaction has closed. You can ask for an account snapshot before closing, but there is always going to be some small window between that and when the contract is no longer under the sellers control.

Most contracts have a provision for the value of missing points to be reimbursed by the seller to the buyer. But, the broker/title company cannot enforce that, because they do not have the money in hand. DVCRM/Magic will pay for it directly if points are missing---I don't know if that's becuase they hold some proceeds for the seller or if they just pay it out of pocket if the seller doesn't come through. I suspect the latter.

However, as @Sandisw points out, (a) the points are usually exaclty as promised and (b) in the rare cases when they are not, the seller generally makes good on them. And that's because most people are honest and try to behave ethically. This is one of those times when I cannot prevent the Bad Thing from happening, but am comfortable assuming that the Bad Thing is unlikely. If for some reason it happens, it stinks, but we are not talking about make-or-break money in most cases. I'd be super bummed to be out a bunch of points, but it isn't going to change how I live my day to day life.

Between the [...] pushback,

100% Not sure why so many make excuses for poor agent attitude either.

I don't equite pushback with a poor attitude. That's even true if the pushback is more than a simple no, and includes "that's not a realistic price for this contract." IMO, that's not a poor attitude, it is a statement about what the seller is and is not willing to accept. It's not really a necessary statement, but in my book, it's not rude.

But setting that aside, it is perfectly possible that the agent does have a poor attitude and is rude. It is also perfectly possible that the agent lies---"that won't pass ROFR," for example. I'm not making excuses for that. I'm saying something about how I navigate the world rather than saying that some behavior should be viewed as acceptable. I think I said something similar upthread, but it boils down to something I hear a lot around the Recovery tables: Someone else's opinion of me is none of my business. If I am behaving ethically, honorably, and with kindness and consideration, that's all I can control. I cannot control how people react to that, nor how they behave generally.

Now, if someone is going to behave in a way that harms those around them---physically, emotionally, or spiritually---then I won't be spending time with that person. But a timeshare broker who lies to me does not rise to that level.

I will be the first to admit that those were some hard-won lessons, and I don't wish the experiences that led me to learn them on anyone else. But I am grateful for them nevertheless.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Some of us are just reporting that our experiences with some of those same people and brokers were not negative.

I have been in a situation with others who have viewed something completely differently than the rest of us.

Obviously, no one needs to use any specific broker if they don’t want to.

I saw some not doing that, thats why I said what I said. Some insinuating that people should be talked down to when presenting a low offer.

I am happy when I see good things about them. So I am glad to hear when things go well.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Fidelity guarantees anything. Their contract does specify how much you’re entitled to from the seller if there are missing points but that does not obligate Fidelity to do anything. Now, they could step in as a gesture of good will - I don’t know if it’s them or other brokers, but there are stories of brokers other than DVCRM doing that. But, to my knowledge, only DVCRM advertises that guarantee (although have not seen the language they put in the actual contract).

The Fidelity contract states that there is a guarantee. But it may be slightly different than the DVCRM guarantee. I have seen several people get paid by Fidelity for missing points.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I don't equite pushback with a poor attitude. That's even true if the pushback is more than a simple no, and includes "that's not a realistic price for this contract." IMO, that's not a poor attitude, it is a statement about what the seller is and is not willing to accept. It's not really a necessary statement, but in my book, it's not rude.

But setting that aside, it is perfectly possible that the agent does have a poor attitude and is rude. It is also perfectly possible that the agent lies---"that won't pass ROFR," for example. I'm not making excuses for that. I'm saying something about how I navigate the world rather than saying that some behavior should be viewed as acceptable. I think I said something similar upthread, but it boils down to something I hear a lot around the Recovery tables: Someone else's opinion of me is none of my business. If I am behaving ethically, honorably, and with kindness and consideration, that's all I can control. I cannot control how people react to that, nor how they behave generally.

Now, if someone is going to behave in a way that harms those around them---physically, emotionally, or spiritually---then I won't be spending time with that person. But a timeshare broker who lies to me does not rise to that level.

I will be the first to admit that those were some hard-won lessons, and I don't wish the experiences that led me to learn them on anyone else. But I am grateful for them nevertheless.

This is all true. You and I have very different takes on buying DVC. That is perfectly okay. Just like you dont need the lowest price to be happy, I do need to be treated decently to be happy and to give my business to someone. Even if some may not see that treatment as bad. So I may miss out on some contracts by opting to not ever offer with them, and I am okay with that. Clearly they dont need me, the sell loads of contracts just fine.

 

[airjay75]

The Fidelity contract states that there is a guarantee. But it may be slightly different than the DVCRM guarantee. I have seen several people get paid by Fidelity for missing points.

Hmm. I wonder if they've changed their contract or if I am just missing it. I kept both of my Fidelity purchase contracts and I just looked at the last one. There is a clause that the seller owes the buyer $25/point for any point they use prior to closing, but there is a much longer provision that specifically disclaims any liability for the broker for any misrepresentations by either the buyer or the seller or with respect to either the buyer or seller failing to perform their obligations under the contract. The way I read both of those provisions is that broker has no contractual liability for any missing points.

Of course, that doesn't mean Fidelity wouldn't make things right if it happened and sounds like they have - just not sure they are legally obligated to. Of course, I haven't seen a DVCRM contract, so who knows how they word their "guarantee."

 

[VGCgroupie]

Hmm. I wonder if they've changed their contract or if I am just missing it. I kept both of my Fidelity purchase contracts and I just looked at the last one. There is a clause that the seller owes the buyer $25/point for any point they use prior to closing, but there is a much longer provision that specifically disclaims any liability for the broker for any misrepresentations by either the buyer or the seller or with respect to either the buyer or seller failing to perform their obligations under the contract. The way I read both of those provisions is that broker has no contractual liability for any missing points.

Of course, that doesn't mean Fidelity wouldn't make things right if it happened and sounds like they have - just not sure they are legally obligated to. Of course, I haven't seen a DVCRM contract, so who knows how they word their "guarantee."

It's possible it's that. I have used a broker that had no verbiage about missing points. Ugh whole purchase was a nail biter.

 

[Brian Noble]

Did you ask for a clause to be added and have them decline to acquiesce to your request?

 

[VGCgroupie]

Did you ask for a clause to be added and have them decline to acquiesce to your request?

Kind of. I asked if they had the clause because I didnt see it and I mentioned the brokers have it. They just said they dont have any guarantees. It was https://www.redweek.com/

 

[Brian Noble]

The clause I would ask to be added would not be a guarantee, but would spell out the seller's responsibility for missing use. However, I do suspect RedWeek would have said no. They are not a full-service brokerage, but more of a glorified classified ad board.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The clause I would ask to be added would not be a guarantee, but would spell out the seller's responsibility for missing use. However, I do suspect RedWeek would have said no. They are not a full-service brokerage, but more of a glorified classified ad board.

Yeah I wasnt expecting much out of them. Especially since it took a week to 3 weeks to get any response to any question I posed.