Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

[Spark65]

It is a tiring place to visit, and I can easily see myself not feeling up to it in my 70s or 80s.

You are no fun when you're 70 or 80 you'll get tired of hanging out in the rocking chair quicker!

 

[FireflyTrance]

You are no fun when you're 70 or 80 you'll get tired of hanging out in the rocking chair quicker!

Haha, well hopefully I can still travel. But I have several relatives in their 70s and 80s. Some are in decent physical shape, but still aren't thrilled at the idea of WDW because of the massive amount of walking.

 

[Spark65]

Haha, well hopefully I can still travel. But I have several relatives in their 70s and 80s. Some are in decent physical shape, but still aren't thrilled at the idea of WDW because of the massive amount of walking.

You know, someday when you hit 70 I think you will have grandkids and still have some spark left in your step and I hope you have a really good time there as well!

 

[Bing Showei]

The point charts and high dues plus initial cost render Riviera a more difficult sale to anyone who is knowledgeable; it just is not a good deal.

Blanket statements like this, besides being condescending, just don’t capture at all the ethos of kool-aid drinking Disney timeshare ownership.

Take yourself out of the little Disney bubble we play around in here and you tell anyone that you’re going to buy an expensive Disney timeshare to stay every year for 22-50 years in pseudo-deluxe accommodations and they’ll look at you like you need to get your head checked.

It will always be cheaper to go to Disney every year and stay in a value resort. So does that make Pop a better deal than SSR?

I know some feel DVC only exists to save people money, but taking down the tribal walls for a minute of Riviera vs. BWV vs. SSR, the question is, “save money over what?” You say it’s not a good deal, but how many people outside of Disney Fandom can you convince that the initial cash outlay and commitment you make to pay to run a Disney resort for 22-50 years is a “good deal” for anyone other than Disney?

I think it’s a good deal, and I personally see value in owning, but I’m in the bubble.

Everyone who bought into this timeshare system has assigned value to being closer to the parks, having a bigger space, staying in a 1+ BR, and so on, and so on; whatever it is, we each assign personal value to that. So who is to say putting value in being at Riviera is lesser than putting value in seeing a bunch of animals off your balcony, walking into Epcot, or saving thousands buying into the cheapest timeshare offering at WDW?

You can’t suggest being “knowledgeable” grants immunity to the allure of Riviera. The high point cost, high maintenance, the high point charts can be easily overlooked. Don’t believe me? Ask this knowledgeable guy:

I would have considered buying points but it just makes no sense with the resale restrictions.

So absent the restrictions, he would’ve entertained buying in despite the high dues or initial costs. Funny how that works.

 

[Soap_1984]

I agree disney is getting the best deal out of everyone, but at least they used to share the monetary benefits a little with purchasers. I am sorry if I came off as condescending, I was just trying to support the point I was trying to make; point chart is among the highest, dues of on property are the highest. Those facts really shouldn't offend anyone. It also shouldn't offend you that I would take into account the resale restrictions when making a decision to buy; if you polled every riviera owner, every last one would vote to remove them. It wasn't a deal killer for them, for me and others, it is.

I am speaking personally. I need to see some semblance of saving money in dvc vs just booking a massively discounted room every year; that is what I consider first in looking at buying dvc. I know I want to stay in a nice room, if I compare booking that room once a year to buying dvc, and it costs more for dvc why am I buying dvc, just because I'm a huge disney fan?
You state that you are a kool aid drinking disney fan, so you can't be the same level of fan without owning DVC?

Anyway, you missed my entire point of the post I made. I stated I would have considered buying some direct points without the resale restrictions. In the case of riviera, I would have needed resale value even higher to justify it; I would have been close to breaking even after my expected use and then been able to sell and realize my savings from buying dvc direct. If that is annoying I apologize I am not stating that anyone who buys direct has made a mistake, I am just saying some point people will look at the numbers and decide not to buy, whereas previously you could look at the numbers and it supported buying dvc (assuming you have the money to do so).

It is ironic that due to the resale restrictions I went and bought 160 points resale rather than direct; the exact opposite of what disney intended the restrictions to do.

 

[Madame]

I agree disney is getting the best deal out of everyone, but at least they used to share the monetary benefits a little with purchasers. I am sorry if I came off as condescending, I was just trying to support the point I was trying to make; point chart is among the highest, dues of on property are the highest. Those facts really shouldn't offend anyone. It also shouldn't offend you that I would take into account the resale restrictions when making a decision to buy; if you polled every riviera owner, every last one would vote to remove them. It wasn't a deal killer for them, for me and others, it is.

I am speaking personally. I need to see some semblance of saving money in dvc vs just booking a massively discounted room every year; that is what I consider first in looking at buying dvc. I know I want to stay in a nice room, if I compare booking that room once a year to buying dvc, and it costs more for dvc why am I buying dvc, just because I'm a huge disney fan?
You state that you are a kool aid drinking disney fan, so you can't be the same level of fan without owning DVC?

Anyway, you missed my entire point of the post I made. I stated I would have considered buying some direct points without the resale restrictions. In the case of riviera, I would have needed resale value even higher to justify it; I would have been close to breaking even after my expected use and then been able to sell and realize my savings from buying dvc direct. If that is annoying I apologize I am not stating that anyone who buys direct has made a mistake, I am just saying some point people will look at the numbers and decide not to buy, whereas previously you could look at the numbers and it supported buying dvc (assuming you have the money to do so).

It is ironic that due to the resale restrictions I went and bought 160 points resale rather than direct; the exact opposite of what disney intended the restrictions to do.

You weren’t being condescending. Maybe go back and add “for me” after the quoted sentence, to avoid offending anyone. Problem solved.

 

[Bing Showei]

You weren’t being condescending. Maybe go back and add “for me” after the quoted sentence, to avoid offending anyone. Problem solved.

That does not solve anything. The suggestion is still that if you’re knowledgeable, you wouldn’t buy Riviera.

That would not be unlike saying something to the effect of, “Buying SSR is a hard sell to anyone who is not a bargain-basement-shopper-type, it’s just too remote... for me”

“For me” doesn’t solve the problem with that statement. It’s still insulting.

 

[tnicks]

That does not solve anything. The suggestion is still that if you’re knowledgeable, you wouldn’t buy Riviera.

...

“For me” doesn’t solve the problem with that statement. It’s still insulting.

I think it's clearly an opinion based statement and people should relax a bit of they are finding it offensive. If something is extremely expensive and has potential to have less resell value, it's fair to state that I would not understand someone knowledgeable making that purchase from an economical standpoint. If you're not buying dvc for economic benefit, you're purchasing on emotion, which I too would not understand. That is me. That is my opinion.

It's OK to disagree without being offended and anyone disagreeing has the opportunity to change my point of view.

 

[Madame]

That does not solve anything. The suggestion is still that if you’re knowledgeable, you wouldn’t buy Riviera.

That would not be unlike saying something to the effect of, “Buying SSR is a hard sell to anyone who is not a bargain-basement-shopper-type, it’s just too remote... for me”

“For me” doesn’t solve the problem with that statement. It’s still insulting.

I had a response typed out. Not worth it. You’re right, I’m wrong. This whole hurt feelings about a timeshare purchase is not my style.

ETA. The feel good RIV thread is over on the resorts board. This thread is not a pro-con thread. Perhaps all involved should shelve this discussion for another thread.

 

[lmhall2000]

Facts are facts. I will drive 10-30 extra miles to get a Toyota Camry for 3k less than my local dealer. I won’t do it for $200-300 if the salesman is a joy to work with. And if he’s a jerk, I might even drive 10 miles and pay $300 more just to not have to deal with him/her. If someone wants to pay 3k more, it’s a fact they are not getting the best Financial deal. It’s an opinion if that is a poor decision. Simply stating I want the best deal should not be offensive to anyone. With any of the resales available- we could see ourselves buying any one of them at the right price, but the restrictions on Riviera mean we can only drive our Camry in one state. Even if you cut the price in half- I would say no way. If you had designed a resort that was magical and transported me into an enchanted world with unbelievable gardens and inspiring design...I’d probably be just fine with staying there...but it’s not, and we won’t. Disney will have to get creative to sell this one.

 

[Bing Showei]

I had a response typed out. Not worth it. You’re right, I’m wrong. This whole hurt feelings about a timeshare purchase is not my style.

ETA. The feel good RIV thread is over on the resorts board. This thread is not a pro-con thread. Perhaps all involved should shelve this discussion for another thread.

I have no issue with anyone saying that buying Riviera is a bad economic choice.

What I’m taking issue with, and that all those suggesting this is an issue of hurt feelings don’t seem to get, is the suggestion that only someone who is ill-informed would buy Riviera. It’s akin to saying only an ill-informed person would commit to paying decades for Disney’s timeshare vs. staying at Pop every year.

The economic valuation in both statements apply. The statement of having or not having knowledge does not.

 

[Pyotr]

December 16th can’t come fast enough. We will finally have some questions a out the Riviera answered.

As I have previously stated, the resale restrictions had little to no impact on my decision to buy CCV over Riviera. Just too many unknowns.

 

[hlhlaw07]

I had a response typed out. Not worth it. You’re right, I’m wrong. This whole hurt feelings about a timeshare purchase is not my style.

ETA. The feel good RIV thread is over on the resorts board. This thread is not a pro-con thread. Perhaps all involved should shelve this discussion for another thread.

Except that it does appear to be your style. Just as you perceive those who disagree with you as having hurt feelings, you come off as having hurt feelings over the disagreement as well. Whether it was about the 2020 point charts or the resale restrictions, you have had pretty emotional responses to those who have seen things a different way. And I don’t say anything of that because I don’t see it the same way as you (in fact I probably agree with you on both issues). But, as an observer, the “just the facts” attitude while being filled with emotion is a little “pot, this is kettle. You’re black.”

 

[Madame]

I have no issue with anyone saying that buying Riviera is a bad economic choice.

What I’m taking issue with, and that all those suggesting this is an issue of hurt feelings don’t seem to get, is the suggestion that only someone who is ill-informed would buy Riviera. It’s akin to saying only an ill-informed person would commit to paying decades for Disney’s timeshare vs. staying at Pop every year.

The economic valuation in both statements apply. The statement of having or not having knowledge does not.

I have always been of the opinion that the best deal for new resorts is to buy direct when first released. The difference between resale and retail was minimal. Anyone buying RIV direct is getting the best deal they can, except the new restrictions have changed everything.

For me the restrictions make RIV like any other timeshare and PERSONALLY I do not understand why people buy those timeshares. For ME this does not make RIV a smart financial decision. RIV buyers feel differently. If they are secure in their decision why does it matter that I don’t think it’s a smart decision. People think I’M crazy for visiting WDW 6 times already in 2019. I don’t defend my choices to anyone.

 

[The Jackal]

Riviera will sell out like all the other resorts. The economy slowed around July maybe because of the negativity with the "fake recession is coming news" but it slowed. It has started to rebound again and confidence will play a part remember a timeshare is a luxury and if everyone runs around calling wolf people will hold money back.

Disney see's a bigger picture just like developers in general because they are speculating. The market is clearly showing them they can sell and increase with the Reflections resort already in the works. Get ready to be disappointed you didn't buy at Riviera when Reflections will cost even more.

Aulani has not sold out yet and who knows when it ever will. I understand that’s it’s not a WDW resort, but it should have sold out by now. The economy is great and has been great for several years now. Lowest unemployment in decades.

I know some compare RIV to VGF, VGF still to this date has much lower MF’s as it should since it uses a lot of points to stay there. RIV has the highest MF’s and uses almost as many points as VGF. VGF is a relatively small resort, RIV is much larger. We have to wait and see what the other resort MF’s go to for 2020. I do not see VGF, BLT, SSR and PVB jump about $2.00 per point to be around RIV, I can see about $0.50 per point increase, but not much more. DVC better hope that RIV’s MF’s go down or stay flat for 4-5 years.

I think the resort is nice, I think the points per night is too high for all rooms. The tiny tower studios use more points than full sized studios at several other resorts. I rode the Skyliner, it was nice when it was moving, but when it stops or pauses, it’s not fun. I’m also not a big fan of the monorail. Let’s face it they need to be replaced post haste. They smell awful, the are bumpy and jerky on acceleration and deceleration, you notice it way more when standing, way worse than most bus rides at WDW. We did have one very bad bus ride there. The bus driver was immediately reported to security to check on him by a lot of the passengers in the bus. I would like to stay at RIV and enjoy the resort.

DVC cannot stop resale. They actually draw many people to it with their high direct prices. I own both direct and resale. Not everyone has $30,000 to drop so they can stay in a studio for one week at RIV once a year. A deluxe studio goes from 109 points per week in the cheap season for standard view all the way up to 243 points per week for a preferred view deluxe studio. That 109 points cost without fees about $20,500 with $904 in MF’s. The 243 points costs without fees and or credits $45,700 with $2,017 in MF’s. Most people can not afford this, but a 150 point contract at SSR for $100 a point they are all in for $15,000 and have around $942 in MF’s. The 150 points goes a lot further army SSR too. It would get you almost 2 weeks in the cheapest season and one week highest point season. The new refurbished rooms at SSR look great. Not much color, or Disney like some state, they are below, but they are not much below RIV or VGF in appearance of the rooms.

 

[Madame]

Except that it does appear to be your style. Just as you perceive those who disagree with you as having hurt feelings, you come off as having hurt feelings over the disagreement as well. Whether it was about the 2020 point charts or the resale restrictions, you have had pretty emotional responses to those who have seen things a different way. And I don’t say anything of that because I don’t see it the same way as you (in fact I probably agree with you on both issues). But, as an observer, the “just the facts” attitude while being filled with emotion is a little “pot, this is kettle. You’re black.”

Touché. I’ve had some serious issues in my own life in the last year which have led me to this new I don’t give a crap about anyone else but me attitude. I am now all about me. So I guess I am a reformed pot or kettle.

ETA I also believe my passionate response to the 2020 chart and the resale restrictions are not equivalent to being offended because one doesn’t like your resort for whatever reason. I rarely feel the need to defend SSR or my overpaid BCV contract. There are many who have much to say about both, including that it is not very smart to buy BCV given remaining length of contract and ppp

 

[Spark65]

Aulani has not sold out yet and who knows when it ever will.

I think I read in another thread that Disney has a hard time selling resorts outside the parks (which I am not sure the statement is accurate) but if true I am not sure you could use that as an example.

 

[Sandisw]

Blanket statements like this, besides being condescending, just don’t capture at all the ethos of kool-aid drinking Disney timeshare ownership.

Take yourself out of the little Disney bubble we play around in here and you tell anyone that you’re going to buy an expensive Disney timeshare to stay every year for 22-50 years in pseudo-deluxe accommodations and they’ll look at you like you need to get your head checked.

It will always be cheaper to go to Disney every year and stay in a value resort. So does that make Pop a better deal than SSR?

I know some feel DVC only exists to save people money, but taking down the tribal walls for a minute of Riviera vs. BWV vs. SSR, the question is, “save money over what?” You say it’s not a good deal, but how many people outside of Disney Fandom can you convince that the initial cash outlay and commitment you make to pay to run a Disney resort for 22-50 years is a “good deal” for anyone other than Disney?

I think it’s a good deal, and I personally see value in owning, but I’m in the bubble.

Everyone who bought into this timeshare system has assigned value to being closer to the parks, having a bigger space, staying in a 1+ BR, and so on, and so on; whatever it is, we each assign personal value to that. So who is to say putting value in being at Riviera is lesser than putting value in seeing a bunch of animals off your balcony, walking into Epcot, or saving thousands buying into the cheapest timeshare offering at WDW?

You can’t suggest being “knowledgeable” grants immunity to the allure of Riviera. The high point cost, high maintenance, the high point charts can be easily overlooked. Don’t believe me? Ask this knowledgeable guy:

So absent the restrictions, he would’ve entertained buying in despite the high dues or initial costs. Funny how that works.

All such great points. A few weeks ago, I never thought I’d even entertain buying a contract at Rivera because of the price per point, and the restriction on resale. Not that I intended to sell, but it wasn’t something I figured made sense,

Then I got talking with my adult kids, and met with a guide this past week with my DD, and it got me thinking. They like the resort, and wouldn’t mind owning there,

So now, I am thinking of selling a contract with 2042 to rebuy with them as owners At RIV. They not only become qualified members, but we need up with points that expire 28 years later.

With the current market and and what I paid, including the discount for what I am buying, including the small CM discount, it brings my net cost for this set of points down to a reasonable number,

Plenty of other points to sell if I had to.so, it really all depends. Now, to be honest, if the direct pricing was better for Poly or CCV, I’d probably consider those, but I guess it’s a never say never,

And I am pretty knowledgeable above it so if I take the plunge, I’ll share!

 

[skier_pete]

I agree disney is getting the best deal out of everyone, but at least they used to share the monetary benefits a little with purchasers. I am sorry if I came off as condescending,

You forget that what DVC is changed about 10 years ago - and it's not something everyone acknowledges.

When DVC started, it was designed to be reasonable alternative to deluxe accommodations at more moderate pricing. Even when AKV opened, the point charts and the buy-in price indicated that.

Between 2009 and 2012, with the opening of BLT things changed. DIsney jacked the prices almost 40% in like 5 years, and instead of designing rooms that were nice but not particularly luxurious, they changed the rooms to be luxury accommodations with marble bathrooms, stainless steel fridges, and TVs built into the mirrors. They rejected the middle class buyer at this point and said "we are going for luxury now".

10 years ago you could buy direct into AKV for $115 a point, and stay in a studio for average 15 points a night. Today you pay $188 a point and average about 25 points a night at Riviera. That's a 71% increase in the cost of a studio in 10 years. It's a specific choice to target a different clientele.

What this all means - we should no longer be looking at DVC Direct as a "Deal" for the moderate goer, the payback has become near infinitely long. It's directed only at the deluxe client - or at least it should be. Resale on the other hand can still work for a more moderate buyer, but only at a few resorts. Even Resale prices are pushing "only a deal for deluxe buyers".

 

[tnicks]

What this all means - we should no longer be looking at DVC Direct as a "Deal" for the moderate goer, the payback has become near infinitely long. It's directed only at the deluxe client - or at least it should be. Resale on the other hand can still work for a more moderate buyer, but only at a few resorts. Even Resale prices are pushing "only a deal for deluxe buyers".

While I think it is true that their target may have changed a bit, I think the premise of DVC is still economic benefit. If there is no economic benefit to purchasing DVC, then all you're doing is losing flexibility and house keeping services. There are tangible downsides to DVC and they have to be outweighed by something to make any sane person purchase it, right? If Disney wants to push for a higher premium, that's fine, but there still has to be a benefit over simply paying for that premium accommodation when you want to visit.