Riviera restrictions - how is this ok?

This rule is a tool Disney is using to tighten up on the resale market. The mouse doesn't like others making money on his hard work.

This would be the third or fourth "restriction" placed on resale since 2011...

If you buy are you want to stay this is not a problem.

If you want to jump around, and it is kinda fun to do, then you either need to buy direct or but at one of the original 14.

Legally how can Disney do this. Simple, you will agree to it when you buy your points. The resale points you buy in RR will were originally sold by Disney (DVD). In that original contract there a clause that sends you to the condo rules. In there it states if you resell the buy can only use the point at RR. I haven't looked it up. But I promise it is there somewhere.

The original buyer agreed to that "restriction" being placed on their title. When (s)he sells to you it comes with that restriction.

hope this helps
I agree with you. Kind of. We all go in fully aware of the resale restrictions on the contract. That makes them binding.

BUT, an illegal clause in a contract doesn't suddenly become legal because you signed it. If the clause was challenged in the courts and then determined to be illegal, we wouldn't still be bound to it.
 
I agree with you. Kind of. We all go in fully aware of the resale restrictions on the contract. That makes them binding.

BUT, an illegal clause in a contract doesn't suddenly become legal because you signed it. If the clause was challenged in the courts and then determined to be illegal, we wouldn't still be bound to it.
IF it is illegal, If it every sees the inside of a court, If you win…..

Each one of those IF cost $$$$$$

before going off half cocked and spend cubic dollars, why do the collective “we” think that the contract contains a clause that is illegal?

what Florida law has DVD violated…. And im honestly asking because I don’t see it.
 
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I agree with you. Kind of. We all go in fully aware of the resale restrictions on the contract. That makes them binding.

BUT, an illegal clause in a contract doesn't suddenly become legal because you signed it. If the clause was challenged in the courts and then determined to be illegal, we wouldn't still be bound to it.
So I skimmed the three year old thread, that is cited earlier in the post.

1. Here is my first issue. If someone were to sue any of the alphabet soup companies Disney has created to control DVC, that person or group of people would have to pay there attorneys and also DVC attorney, Why because we are DVC, you would have to sue each resort, and DVD who manages DVC for us.... The DVC owners would be paying all the attorneys or at least most of them That's not cubic dollars that is going to exponentially cost prohibitive. I'm not putting any effort into researching this but my guess is you would need 3 attorney charging 800/ an hour plus some paralegals at 300/ hours working for 6 months to even file the complaint.

2. Next, I not actually sure the owner's have a right to sue, and before I get 1000 hate post, we have all granted our rights to manage DVC to the board of DVD... I think you would need to get 60 percent of the owner of each unit to take back control of that unit to be able to sue. Not sure if that is the case but my Im sure 40 or so hours of research by one of those 800 / hour attorneys would answer that question.

3. Disney's is going to legate the **** out of this. Every motion is going to cost cubic dollars (see paragraph 1).

4. In the end the DVC member are the only ones that will loose.

I also do not actually see what Disney did that was illegal. They change the rules. The publicly stated their new policy. They posted cut off date. THEY DISCLOSED THE CHANGE! If you bough after the cut-off date and regret it, you had 10 days to rescind. Until someone can point me in the direction of a section chapter 721 of the Florida statues, and explain how Disney violated that section, and how that violation effected them...... Other wise I think the claim that Disney violated the law is nothing more than Hyperbole....

caveat emptor......
 
This argument has been raised often. The best thread to read if you want more info is this one:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...t-to-revert-dvcs-resale-restrictions.3747861/

Conclusion on that thread is that there is a good chance that a legal challenge against the resale restrictions might succeed, but you have to find enough people motivated to start one. At the time, since everyone was grandfathered in, chances of gathering enough support were very slim. Things may change in the future as more people buy resale and new resorts are built with the restrictions. DVC might be sitting on a ticking bomb, but until someone is willing to poke the bomb, those are just opinions.

IF it is illegal, If it every sees the inside of a court, If you win…..

Each one of those IF cost $$$$$$

before going off half cocked and spend cubic dollars, why do the collective “we” think that the contract contains a clause that is illegal?

what Florida law has DVD violated…. And im honestly asking because I don’t see it.
Okay... Didn't mean to touch a nerve. Just going by the conclusion of the thread posted earlier....
 

Okay... Didn't mean to touch a nerve. Just going by the conclusion of the thread posted earlier....
didn’t touch a nerve at all….
my opinion is there conclusion is questionable at best….
we all not what opinions are like….

Not one person in that in that entire 9 page 3 year old post stated an actionable claim, a violate of law, or any legal precedent To support that opinion.
i just wanted someone to state one of those….

thats all
 
Until someone can point me in the direction of a section chapter 721 of the Florida statues, and explain how Disney violated that section, and how that violation effected them......

721.52 is the section that provides some definitions.

8) "Vacation club" means a multisite timeshare plan. However, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the use of the term "vacation club" by a person or entity as part of a company, brand, or product name shall not, in and of itself, subject the person, entity, or product being offered to the provisions of this part unless the product offered otherwise meets the definition of a "multisite timeshare plan" as defined in subsection (4).

4) "Multisite timeshare plan" means any method, arrangement, or procedure with respect to which a purchaser obtains, by any means, a recurring right to use and occupy accommodations or facilities of more than one component site, only through use of a reservation system, whether or not the purchaser is able to elect to cease participating in the plan.

Any resale owners that can’t trade in or out of Riviera are not actual members of a “vacation club” as defined above and should not be marketed as such is my interpretation.
 
Until someone can point me in the direction of a section chapter 721 of the Florida statues, and explain how Disney violated that section, and how that violation effected them......

721.52 is the section that provides some definitions.

8) "Vacation club" means a multisite timeshare plan. However, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the use of the term "vacation club" by a person or entity as part of a company, brand, or product name shall not, in and of itself, subject the person, entity, or product being offered to the provisions of this part unless the product offered otherwise meets the definition of a "multisite timeshare plan" as defined in subsection (4).

4) "Multisite timeshare plan" means any method, arrangement, or procedure with respect to which a purchaser obtains, by any means, a recurring right to use and occupy accommodations or facilities of more than one component site, only through use of a reservation system, whether or not the purchaser is able to elect to cease participating in the plan.

Any resale owners that can’t trade in or out of Riviera are not actual members of a “vacation club” as defined above and should not be marketed as such is my interpretation.
Thank you let me do some research!
 
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Until someone can point me in the direction of a section chapter 721 of the Florida statues, and explain how Disney violated that section, and how that violation effected them......

721.52 is the section that provides some definitions.

8) "Vacation club" means a multisite timeshare plan. However, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the use of the term "vacation club" by a person or entity as part of a company, brand, or product name shall not, in and of itself, subject the person, entity, or product being offered to the provisions of this part unless the product offered otherwise meets the definition of a "multisite timeshare plan" as defined in subsection (4).

4) "Multisite timeshare plan" means any method, arrangement, or procedure with respect to which a purchaser obtains, by any means, a recurring right to use and occupy accommodations or facilities of more than one component site, only through use of a reservation system, whether or not the purchaser is able to elect to cease participating in the plan.

Any resale owners that can’t trade in or out of Riviera are not actual members of a “vacation club” as defined above and should not be marketed as such is my interpretation.
So quickly, reading and not having access to a resale contract.
RR resale is not a multi site timeshare plan, and not a vacation club per se, but according to paragraph that doesn’t mean much…..

is that your only claim because they way i read that paragraph 8 the use of the term Vacation Club as branding doesn’t matter unless you meet the requirements of para 4…. And your whole complain is you only get to stay at RR….

i don’t understand what your claim is. I would reread para 8 ….
 
Until someone can point me in the direction of a section chapter 721 of the Florida statues, and explain how Disney violated that section, and how that violation effected them......

721.52 is the section that provides some definitions.

8) "Vacation club" means a multisite timeshare plan. However, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the use of the term "vacation club" by a person or entity as part of a company, brand, or product name shall not, in and of itself, subject the person, entity, or product being offered to the provisions of this part unless the product offered otherwise meets the definition of a "multisite timeshare plan" as defined in subsection (4).

4) "Multisite timeshare plan" means any method, arrangement, or procedure with respect to which a purchaser obtains, by any means, a recurring right to use and occupy accommodations or facilities of more than one component site, only through use of a reservation system, whether or not the purchaser is able to elect to cease participating in the plan.

Any resale owners that can’t trade in or out of Riviera are not actual members of a “vacation club” as defined above and should not be marketed as such is my interpretation.

When I read the clause about the word vacation club, IMO, it is simply saying that using the word vacation club in and of itself, does not fall under this statute unless it is in conjunction with a multi site timeshare plan.

For example, I can create Sandi’s Vacation Club in which all members pay a fee to have one person organize trips for them. My use of the word vacation club does not “subject me as a person to the provisions of this part of the statue” because my vacation club is not a multi site timeshare plan.

Owners of RIV can indeed trade through the program as long as they have qualified points. FL timeshare law does not require that resale owners must be given the same rights as those who purchase direct from a developer The statute is for the developer and rules they must follow, includes guidance in what language must be in the POS in terms of resale.

The POS of each timeshare plan is what sets the rules for resale The POS for RIV restricts resale owners from exchanging their points with BVTC…but it does not restrict them from using II or RCI when we traded with that.

The argument by others is that the DVC resort agreement of the O14 state that new resorts BVTC decides to associate as another DVC resort must have a DVC resort agreement that is substantially similar to those…that wording doesn’t seem to be there for RIV.

Because there are changes for resale owners, some believe that means it’s not..but it is exactly the same for direct and resale owners who Owned prior to RIV

Since the original language of the O14 is substantially similar, it comes down to whether you believe that restricting access to RIV by resale buyers as of January, 2019, makes it different enough when the rest is all the same to be in violation of the contract.

The DVC resort agreements do give BVTC the ability to set the rules and alter them along the way. The POS also allows for changes. So, is the change between O14 DVC resort agreements and the RIV resort agreement in conflict with the contract? Some think yes…some think no.

The POS is referring to your home resort and all owners, resale or direct, including resale RIV are members of the club at their own resort.

ETA: The other aspect that some have questioned is whether RIV can be considered a component site of a multi site timeshare plan (like DVC) when it’s trading rights are not the same for all owners.. All the FL statue says is that a multi site temshare plan is simply a group of sites that allow owners to use the other sites through a reservation system. RIV certainly seems to meet that standard.

The ability to trade through BVTC has nothing to do with being a club member.

Here is all it means to be a club member:

1651119833418.png
 
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4. In the end the DVC member are the only ones that will loose.
A reply only on this one.
When the original 2020 point charts came out and outrage ensued, this was the common reply. You cannot win because Disney has so many lawyers.
And yet, they were forced to rollback the point charts (twice) and one single member did his research and forced DVC to change back the way they calculate tax refunds for resale purchasers and forced them to issue refunds.
Never underestimate the power of consumers.
 
A reply only on this one.
When the original 2020 point charts came out and outrage ensued, this was the common reply. You cannot win because Disney has so many lawyers.
And yet, they were forced to rollback the point charts (twice) and one single member did his research and forced DVC to change back the way they calculate tax refunds for resale purchasers and forced them to issue refunds.
Never underestimate the power of consumers.
One. I very much dislike it when people cherry pick my comments.
Two, the thread I was referring to dates back to 2019. If there was a lawsuit to be had here someone would have filed it.

What reason would you give that non of the rebel rouser in the 2019 post have not filed suit. My guess is someone maybe a few people took that to an attorney spend $1000 dollars or so to be told no case here. Just a guess on my part, I await you speculation.

Have to be completely honest I knew nothing of the point chart "OUTRAGE", until now.

So that didn't effect everyone
 
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One. I very much dislike it when people cherry pick my comments.
Two, the thread I was referring to dates back to 2019. If there was a lawsuit to be had here someone would have filed it.

What reason would you give that non of the rebel rouser in the 2019 post have not filed suit. My guess is someone maybe a few people took that to an attorney spend $1000 dollars or so to be told no case here. Just a guess on my part, I await you speculation.

My speculation is that in 2019 it didn't affect any of us since we were grandfathered in to be able to use our resale points at the Riviera. Therefore, no one acted. Since then, people who bought resale in the O14 resorts still have all except one resort to trade into, and there aren't enough Riviera resale owners to complain. At this time, there just isn't enough people for it to be an issue. I'd wait and see, but by the time this hits the fan, it might be too late.

But @zavandor is right. The issues he cited affected everyone and it only took 24 people to complain directly to DVC about the 2020 point charts, and 1 person to complain about tax refunds for everyone to benefit.
 
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My speculation is that in 2019 it didn't affect any of us since we were grandfathered in to be able to use our resale points at the Riviera. Therefore, no one acted. Since then, people who bought resale in the O14 resorts still have all except one resort to trade into, and there aren't enough Riviera resale owners to complain. At this time, there just isn't enough people for it to be an issue. I'd wait and see, but by the time this hits the fan, it might be too late.

But @zavandor is right. The issues he cited affected everyone and it only took 24 people to complain directly to DVC about the 2020 point charts, and 1 person to complain about tax refunds for everyone to benefit.
OK, assume for the sake of discussion he is right, Why hasn't anyone complained to Disney or more?

To me change a point chart and change a easement to a deed are completely different.

The fact that Disney responded so quickly when they knew they were in the wrong makes me think they may be in the right here.... but with anything only time will tell.
 
OK, assume for the sake of discussion he is right, Why hasn't anyone complained to Disney or more?

To me change a point chart and change a easement to a deed are completely different.

The fact that Disney responded so quickly when they knew they were in the wrong makes me think they may be in the right here.... but with anything only time will tell.
DVC sure thinks that they are in the "right" on the question. :)

And, I would add for the sake of an interesting debate, that given it's been three years now, DVC may have already been deluged with complaints and threats of legal action to force a rescission of the policy. We really have no way of knowing that. What we do know for certain is that the policy is still here.
 
One. I very much dislike it when people cherry pick my comments.
Two, the thread I was referring to dates back to 2019. If there was a lawsuit to be had here someone would have filed it.

What reason would you give that non of the rebel rouser in the 2019 post have not filed suit. My guess is someone maybe a few people took that to an attorney spend $1000 dollars or so to be told no case here. Just a guess on my part, I await you speculation.

Have to be completely honest I knew nothing of the point chart "OUTRAGE", until now.

So that didn't effect everyone
You wrote a post with numbered points. If you don't want people to reply to specific points, avoid writing such a list.

At the time I had contacted a lawyer who specialises in timeshare law. He judged the case "interesting". I never followed up because we basically won when Disney rolled back the point charts, otherwise I would have tried to push for a lawsuit.

And lastly I agree with you: you are commenting about things you know nothing about.
 
DVC sure thinks that they are in the "right" on the question. :)

And, I would add for the sake of an interesting debate, that given it's been three years now, DVC may have already been deluged with complaints and threats of legal action to force a rescission of the policy. We really have no way of knowing that. What we do know for certain is that the policy is still here.
I can tell you why I haven't complained like I did, instead, for other things:
1) I do not suffer any damage from this, as I am grandfathered
2) while it's possible to go against Disney, or any other corporation, it is not easy. The amount of headwind I had to face just in trying to explain the problem with the point charts was immense. DVC owners are Disney fans and as such they are ready to believe they cannot do unlawful things.

There aren't many people highly motivated to sue Disney. O14 new resale owners can still book 14 resorts, Riviera is just one of many. Riviera resale owners are heavily affected, but prices are so high at the moment that they have probably purchased those points to stay at Riviera only anyway, so little harm.

Also, it is not clear what would lawsuit accomplish. If Disney is forced to remove the resale restrictions because they are unlawful, they might decide to disconnect Riviera from DVC1 and create a DVC2, which would mean an ever worst damage. So not only the lawsuit is difficult, it might be counterproductive for existing owners, hence why no one had any interested in suing at the time.
 
I can tell you why I haven't complained like I did, instead, for other things:
1) I do not suffer any damage from this, as I am grandfathered
2) while it's possible to go against Disney, or any other corporation, it is not easy. The amount of headwind I had to face just in trying to explain the problem with the point charts was immense. DVC owners are Disney fans and as such they are ready to believe they cannot do unlawful things.

There aren't many people highly motivated to sue Disney. O14 new resale owners can still book 14 resorts, Riviera is just one of many. Riviera resale owners are heavily affected, but prices are so high at the moment that they have probably purchased those points to stay at Riviera only anyway, so little harm.

Also, it is not clear what would lawsuit accomplish. If Disney is forced to remove the resale restrictions because they are unlawful, they might decide to disconnect Riviera from DVC1 and create a DVC2, which would mean an ever worst damage. So not only the lawsuit is difficult, it might be counterproductive for existing owners, hence why no one had any interested in suing at the time.
Ok, thanks for sharing. I was just commenting that perhaps people have complained to DVC and threatened legal action, and we just don't know it. I wasn't referring to any particular person or circumstance.

ETA: I know the topic of this thread is specifically the restrictions to Riveria, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that any points bought resale after 2019 are actually restricted.
 
Ok, thanks for sharing. I was just commenting that perhaps people have complained to DVC and threatened legal action, and we just don't know it. I wasn't referring to any particular person or circumstance.
I think there was a class action brewing some time ago, but it wasn't related to this and I have no idea how it went. While here on the Disnoards there are a lot of well informed people, it's very true others who are not posting here might have complained and we never knew.
 
The truth is that there just has not been a whole lot of resale RIV contracts sold. Until there is, with those motivated to pursue the issue of the restrictions, there is not way of knowing how this will play out. I speculate that if a group of resale owners come forth with ugly threats of law suites with big ugly publicity that Disney will back down. Since my belief that Disney does not want to have their restrictions tested, that is why they have opened the new GFV as part of existing resort and will do so with the new Poly tower.
 
Disney has the worst possible publicity it has ever had right now..... They haven't back down yet....

I'm not sure a dozen or 100 or 1000 vacation club member is going to get them to change their collective corporate mind, if their intent is to limit resale...

I also still haven't been able to find an actionable claim that a purchaser can pursue.

But we will see
 
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