Rivers of Light opening delayed

[anthony2k7]

If people aren't cancelling vacations over RoL Disney isn't losing money and everything is going to be okay. Your point is that this is some sort of catastrophic problem because the show was delayed when in fact it absolutely wasn't.

Those people are more worried about the cuts taking place due to Shanghai. To ignore that is just wrong.

Disney is a huge business. This really isn't a "huge" deal in the grand scheme of things as long as it debuts later this year like it's supposed to. Again remember test track.

After all who cares about the COO outside of the Disney bubble? Wall Street sure does. When he announced his resignation Disney stock dropped and that's one thing the Disney CEO cares most about more than anything.

I agree in the grand scheme of things its not a massive disaster.

But I do think Disney will be losing money from this. Isn't one of the objectives of the show (if not the main objective) to turn the park from a half day park into a full day park and keep people there until late. Without RoL and Avatar still seemingly a long way off, AK remains a half day park with people just visiting to do the E tickets and then leaving. Without RoL to wait around for late in the day, there's no time to kill in the shops or food/drink.

 

[Eoghann]

There are different types of PR disasters. Blackfish was worse from a moral stand point. RoL was worse in terms of guest satisfaction or confidence. The Blackfish controversy was spearheaded by a very small, well funded, minority. The overwhelming majority of guest could have cared less about the plight of the whales for the entire history of Sea Worlds existence. Most people still don't care or think the treatment of the whales is that big of a deal. The RoL effects nearly every WDW customer. Blackfish made execs look cold and heartless. RoL makes execs look incompetent and uncaring about guest experiences. They are not the same but ultimately had the same effect, in Disney's case, Staggs resigned. My point isn't to compare the two, just that execs don't get to pick what they think should be a PR disaster. No way Iger or the board were okay with the RoL delay. It's a way bigger deal than some people want to admit.

Blackfish resulted in a drop in attendance, drop in revenues, drop in stock and multiple resignations. These are factually verifiable things.

RoL's delay has resulted in... No drop in attendance, no drop in revenue, no drop in stock and no resignations directly linked (no matter how many times you want to claim it).

Your reaction to RoL suggests an ignorance of engineering projects in general. This sort of unplanned delay really isn't that rare and it isn't necessarily a result of incompetence.

 

[Eoghann]

I agree in the grand scheme of things its not a massive disaster.

But I do think Disney will be losing money from this. Isn't one of the objectives of the show (if not the main objective) to turn the park from a half day park into a full day park and keep people there until late. Without RoL and Avatar still seemingly a long way off, AK remains a half day park with people just visiting to do the E tickets and then leaving. Without RoL to wait around for late in the day, there's no time to kill in the shops or food/drink.

They're not losing money. They're just not making extra. That's a very important difference.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Blackfish resulted in a drop in attendance, drop in revenues, drop in stock and multiple resignations. These are factually verifiable things.

RoL's delay has resulted in... No drop in attendance, no drop in revenue, no drop in stock and no resignations directly linked (no matter how many times you want to claim it).

Your reaction to RoL suggests an ignorance of engineering projects in general. This sort of unplanned delay really isn't that rare and it isn't necessarily a result of incompetence.

I appreciate your enthusiasm to defend inexcusable blunders by Disney; but, name calling is unnecessary. Of course delays are part of the process and even to be expected. The real blunder was setting a date and not following through. That kind of incompetence general results from unchecked egos run amok. The fact is they have lost money, attendance, and more importantly the respect of many of their customers. Not understanding lost revenue is lost money is a fundamental business component you are missing.

 

[beer dave]

Not sure if I agree on how big of a "disaster" Rol not opening is in terms on disney's image. I live three hours away. Most of the people on my kids baseball team go multiple times a year/have annual passes. While watching the kids take 30 minutes each to finally hit a ball, I asked what they thought about Rol being delayed. They had no idea what I was talking about. I had to explain what Rol was and how Ak is supposed to be open later. They were excited to hear about it but weren't in the know. To me Disney really didn't market it well.

Yes everyone on the boards is irritated, myself included, but I seriously wonder what percentage of Disney patrons read fan sites such as this to even know to get upset about it.

I'm not irritated--- by the ROL delay, anyway....... now this ridiculous debate?....... it's getting there.

 

[rteetz]

There are different types of PR disasters. Blackfish was worse from a moral stand point. RoL was worse in terms of guest satisfaction or confidence. The Blackfish controversy was spearheaded by a very small, well funded, minority. The overwhelming majority of guest could have cared less about the plight of the whales for the entire history of Sea Worlds existence. Most people still don't care or think the treatment of the whales is that big of a deal. The RoL effects nearly every WDW customer. Blackfish made execs look cold and heartless. RoL makes execs look incompetent and uncaring about guest experiences. They are not the same but ultimately had the same effect, in Disney's case, Staggs resigned. My point isn't to compare the two, just that execs don't get to pick what they think should be a PR disaster. No way Iger or the board were okay with the RoL delay. It's a way bigger deal than some people want to admit.

If the whale situation wasn't a big deal SeaWorld wouldn't have shut down their breeding program. RoL doesn't make executives look incompetent or uncaring anymore than they already have been. Have you been following Disney news for the last five years or longer? I think they board could careless about RoL right now they have way bigger fish to fry and if you can't admit that than that's a problem.

 

[rteetz]

I agree in the grand scheme of things its not a massive disaster.

But I do think Disney will be losing money from this. Isn't one of the objectives of the show (if not the main objective) to turn the park from a half day park into a full day park and keep people there until late. Without RoL and Avatar still seemingly a long way off, AK remains a half day park with people just visiting to do the E tickets and then leaving. Without RoL to wait around for late in the day, there's no time to kill in the shops or food/drink.

I would agree with that but I'd rather them get it right than have it open with problems.

 

[rteetz]

I appreciate your enthusiasm to defend inexcusable blunders by Disney; but, name calling is unnecessary. Of course delays are part of the process and even to be expected. The real blunder was setting a date and not following through. That kind of incompetence general results from unchecked egos run amok. The fact is they have lost money, attendance, and more importantly the respect of many of their customers. Not understanding lost revenue is lost money is a fundamental business component you are missing.

So do you think Staggs set the opening date or something? No operations and the PR department do that kind of stuff.

Show me proof that they have lost money, attendance and customer respect.

 

[Eoghann]

I appreciate your enthusiasm to defend inexcusable blunders by Disney; but, name calling is unnecessary. Of course delays are part of the process and even to be expected. The real blunder was setting a date and not following through. That kind of incompetence general results from unchecked egos run amok. The fact is they have lost money, attendance, and more importantly the respect of many of their customers. Not understanding lost revenue is lost money is a fundamental business component you are missing.

I didn't call anyone names. I didn't say you were stupid, I said you're reaction suggested lack of knowledge of how these projects work.

That remains my opinion. As someone who works in support of Project Managers on large engineering projects on a daily basis I find your notion that delays or missed deadlines are the result of "unchecked egos run amok" to be woefully inaccurate. There are many reasons that cause project delays.

 

[beer dave]

FYI Staggs leaving also coincides with a Security guard at Disney being arrested in a sex sting and DVC eliminating the perks for buying resale, but I highly doubt those had any influence on the COO being fired. Like Egohann stated, coincidence is not causation. The simplist explanation is the one most are reporting. It was politicing.

That's it! Staggs was caught in the sting while he was attempting to buy resale DVC from an police officer posing as an underage time share agent-- I would have fired him too.....

 

[LaidBackDad]

So do you think Staggs set the opening date or something? No operations and the PR department do that kind of stuff.

Show me proof that they have lost money, attendance and customer respect.

Anyone who has managed projects for large corporations understands that projects are given arbitrary deadlines with little or no input from the people actually working on the project. The deadlines are usually guided more by budget concerns, market factors and yes, purely ego of executives who think that just because they say so, a project should be done by a certain time. If Staggs didn't know what was going on with RoL and it was having problems, then that is all the more reason he should have been forced to resign. Do you honestly think a decision to delay RoL is made without his approval?

You cannot simply discount the fact that AK not being open for night time hours isn't a financial blow and that alone counts as lost attendance. Even if they aren't being paid, staff was hired, schedules were changed, extra supplies were purchased etc... The lost respect is subjective just because you may not believe its a problem doesn't mean everyone else has to believe that.

 

[LaidBackDad]

If the whale situation wasn't a big deal SeaWorld wouldn't have shut down their breeding program. RoL doesn't make executives look incompetent or uncaring anymore than they already have been. Have you been following Disney news for the last five years or longer? I think they board could careless about RoL right now they have way bigger fish to fry and if you can't admit that than that's a problem.

And that is exactly my point, except for not caring about the RoL implosion. The biggest problem the board has right now is its image or brand. Not Shanghai, not ESPN or other financial concerns. By all accounts everyone says Disney is in better shape financially now than ever. What they have been taking a pounding on is customer satisfaction and value. Even if some customers are only mildly annoyed with the RoL delay, that is bad news for Disney since the delay was completely avoidable.

 

[beer dave]

And that is exactly my point, except for not caring about the RoL implosion. The biggest problem the board has right now is its image or brand. Not Shanghai, not ESPN or other financial concerns. By all accounts everyone says Disney is in better shape financially now than ever. What they have been taking a pounding on is customer satisfaction and value. Even if some customers are only mildly annoyed with the RoL delay, that is bad news for Disney since the delay was completely avoidable.

OK-- sorry-- avoidable? Because you know how it could have been avoided? Better management? Do a better job guys!

Try the real world where "stuff" happens. Anyone who thinks they can manage a construction project with any other method than crisis management is operating on wishful thinking. You can plan and schedule all you want, but in the end, the job builds itself.

And you may notice the others have seemed to check out on this debate.

 

[HopperFan]

So do you think Staggs set the opening date or something? No operations and the PR department do that kind of stuff.

Show me proof that they have lost money, attendance and customer respect.

Stop feeding the troll.

As you know I've been quite active on the 500+ page of disappointed guests ........ and for those who don't know the thread it's 500+ pages because we turned it into a crazy fun thread full of jokes and laughs ... at RoL expense - not because we are cancelling our trips. We have now been moved to the TP Community Board to continue our fun banter awaiting the AK awakening.

Staggs is leaving, probably a mutual deal. He clearly didn't live up to what they wanted to carry the company forward, he wasn't going to get the job he wanted and so the best option is for them to part ways.

PERSONAL OPINION:
If someone needs to have a reason why? He was no longer in the running for Iger's job.
1) Bad always wins out over the good and he has two BIG bads under his reign.
2) I don't think Iger will leave until the SW Lands are open, otherwise it won't be his feather.
3) RoL delay is a problem, mostly due to announcing a date before testing was done. Happens. Not worthy of chopping off Staggs head.

From Disney website:
Mr. Staggs became Chief Operating Officer in February 2015. Since 2010, he has led Parks and Resorts’ global team of more than 130,000 Cast Members, Crew Members and Imagineers, with the segment delivering record revenue, profit and attendance levels. In addition to overseeing the development of Shanghai Disney Resort and a new Avatar-themed land at Disney’s Animal Kingdom Park, during Tom’s tenure, Disney has launched two new cruise ships; opened Aulani, a Disney Resort & Spa, in Hawai‘i; added three new lands at Hong Kong Disneyland; doubled the size of Fantasyland at the Magic Kingdom; and completed a multi-year expansion of the Disneyland Resort with the addition of Cars Land and Buena Vista Street at Disney California Adventure Park.

 

[rteetz]

Anyone who has managed projects for large corporations understands that projects are given arbitrary deadlines with little or no input from the people actually working on the project. The deadlines are usually guided more by budget concerns, market factors and yes, purely ego of executives who think that just because they say so, a project should be done by a certain time. If Staggs didn't know what was going on with RoL and it was having problems, then that is all the more reason he should have been forced to resign. Do you honestly think a decision to delay RoL is made without his approval?

You cannot simply discount the fact that AK not being open for night time hours isn't a financial blow and that alone counts as lost attendance. Even if they aren't being paid, staff was hired, schedules were changed, extra supplies were purchased etc... The lost respect is subjective just because you may not believe its a problem doesn't mean everyone else has to believe that.

I'm not answering this nonsense anymore.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Alright, this will be my last post on the subject as well because obviously people are getting too testy. What I also find obnoxious about this discussion is that I have stated over and over again I agree with 95% of what some people are saying, but some want act like I'm just trying to be argumentative. In my opinion, the disconnect comes from people failing to realize the significance of RoL. It is more than just a show / single attraction. It signifies a fundamental shift in the operation of AK with the nighttime hours. That is a huge shift in the operational philosophy. The only thing that would be bigger is the opening of a 5th gate. The entire philosophy is being held up because of "technical issues / bad management" in the main attraction. You have to wonder how serious are these issues? Are they are truly minor issues? If so, even though none of us prefer a Plan B, is it worth holding up the philosophy shift? Worse, what if the technical issues aren't minor and requires scraping major parts and reworking the whole show? If you ask me, you don't delay after publicly announcing a date unless it is a major problem. We all know the vast majority of projects anywhere in the world are completed on time and on budget. Of course, delays and cost overruns are also common place. However, smart managers account for unexpected issues in their project plan, budget and timelines. However, short of natural disasters or other extreme issues like terrorist attacks, all other delays will almost always be attributed to human error at some point in the process. To error is human; but, that is also why a lot of people get fired.

To say, a delay in the biggest operational philosophy shift in recent years at WDW, which resulted in public embarrassment for the company, and lead to tens of thousands of disappointed customers, and millions in lost revue, is something that is irrelevant and had absolutely nothing to do with with the resignation of a COO who was already on thin ice and occurred at virtually the same time as the delay announcement, seems closed minded. But, I guess that's just me. No worries.

 

[anthony2k7]

They're not losing money. They're just not making extra. That's a very important difference.

ok yes symantics.

Year on year income may not be down from this. They will be losing out from having the cost of the project but no extra income from it though.

Also, against forecast/budget they will be down/losing money.

 

[Eoghann]

ok yes symantics.

Year on year income may not be down from this. They will be losing out from having the cost of the project but no extra income from it though.

Also, against forecast/budget they will be down/losing money.

It is considerably more than semantics, it is an important clarification. When people start throwing around the term loss, the impression is given that they are operating in the red.

They might well have to reduce their revenue projections for the year, but adjusting those sorts of projections is a common occurrence throughout the year. Not a good thing but not a catastrophe by any stretch, they can always just squeeze a few more hours off the CM's week to even it out.

As over-budget as Avatar is rumored to be, I find it hard to believe the delay on RoL is their biggest concern.

 

[cmash95]

funny how california can seem to get their stuff done in a timely manner and near budget but florida seems to always have problems getting things done on time. maybe lassiter needs to come out here and crack a whip or two and get the work done and if you look at skagg's list of accomplishment only the two ships were done ontime. anything have to do with WDW or alauni was late and way over budget.

 

[rteetz]

funny how california can seem to get their stuff done in a timely manner and near budget but florida seems to always have problems getting things done on time. maybe lassiter needs to come out here and crack a whip or two and get the work done and if you look at skagg's list of accomplishment only the two ships were done ontime. anything have to do with WDW or alauni was late and way over budget.

It's not just WDW. It's WDI, imagineering can't get much of anything done within a reasonable budget. That goes for Disneyland too but Disneyland does have different management and a different visitor base. And what would Lasseter do?