River Country

[WDWKOOK]

If this 'rumor' becomes reality, FW would be the first Moderate DVC and I would assume, not the last?

 

[nuts]

1.2 billion at saratoga.

Sorry, no value to my comment...but you made my day

 

[umichigan10]

If this 'rumor' becomes reality, FW would be the first Moderate DVC and I would assume, not the last?

Well FW is kind of a hybrid in the whole resort categories standing. But I would think its convenient waterfront location with connection to MK via boat. Imo though id rather see stand alone resorts as opposed to build one with moderates but that's just me

 

[chartle]

I'm not sure that even if they did build a DVC resort it would be a Fort Wilderness DVC, but more of a DVC between WL and Fort Wilderness. There are how many resorts are outside Epcot and they are all separate properties. Its not like there is a ton of things that the DVC would share with FW, just a buffet TS that most people don't know about.

So they would have to build their own eateries. Wonder if they would keep out "the campers".

As for it being a mod DVC, they only starting calling FW a mod to try to sell more cabins.

 

[articfox676]

How does a helipad and camping go together? So much for quiet!!!

 

[rabbitroger]

How does a helipad and camping go together? So much for quiet!!!

the Helipad was a joke.

 

[simmons_m]

And animal kingdom hasn't seen the last of DVC in its area as well. that park underperforms and costs a fortune to run...they will put more DVC near it before too long to try to entice more traffic into the park - count on it.

Agree regarding potential expansion at AKL. The current layout looks similar to the skeleton of an elephant/mammoth skull. I would guess there is a plan somewhere to complete the design...

 

[rabbitroger]

Agree regarding potential expansion at AKL. The current layout looks similar to the skeleton of an elephant/mammoth skull. I would guess there is a plan somewhere to complete the design...

Maybe it's just me, but i don't see the skull?

 

[chartle]

And animal kingdom hasn't seen the last of DVC in its area as well. that park underperforms and costs a fortune to run...they will put more DVC near it before too long to try to entice more traffic into the park - count on it.

Missed this the first time around, but I'm not sure how having more people staying near AK would drive more guests to AK.

The only way I could see it maybe and its a huge maybe, would be a direct walk way to AK, but it would maybe only work if they expanded hours and added more TS . Similar to how Epcot can get more guests with PH's at night from the resorts outside the IG. They go to the WS to eat, hang out and see Illuminations.

If Disney wants more people to go to AK they need more stuff for people to do at AK.

 

[tjkraz]

The Ft Wilderness DVC was on the fast track for a while and then suddenly...it wasn't. Before they could begin working on the DVC resort they would have to relocate & expand the Tri Circle D Ranch and add some additional infrastructure. I don't follow FtW too closely but I haven't heard anything about that project beginning.

Right now Disney has 4 or 5 DVC resort options for Walt Disney World--not including the Grand Floridian--and will opt to move forward with whichever option best meshes with other goals and priorities at the time a decision must be made.

One of the more intriguing rumors I've heard lately is converting Coronado Springs to a sort of Deluxe-lite and adding DVC units.

In Disney's mind, Art of Animation has broken the mold on the old Value / Moderate / Deluxe model. They see it as fitting somewhere between Value and Moderate.

Similarly Coronado Springs could be positioned between Moderate and Deluxe. It already has a decent pool, convention facilities and Sammy Duvall was brought in to expand the watersports offerings. The rooms run about 320 sq ft which is on par with the "Value" rooms at Animal Kingdom Villas. It also has a few dozen larger "Suite" rooms.

With AoA adding more cash rooms to the inventory and Coronado Springs being the one Moderate that has not received much TLC in recent years, this rumor "fits" in many respects. DVC has also had a great deal of success selling a more value-priced alternative in the last couple of years.

Over the last 18 months they've had Bay Lake Tower points priced in the $150-165 range and plan to charge similar prices for Grand Floridian. But what that pricing has really done is help the move oodles of Saratoga Springs and Animal Kingdom Villas points as a more economical alternative. Coronado Springs fits in that regard, too. It would be a relatively cheap renovation rather than new construction, which helps the profit margins.

DVC still believes (hopes) that a market exists for selling monorail points at $160-180 each. But they need a cheaper product to sell to the masses. Coronado Springs could be that product.

I don't see them fully committing to a Poly DVC until they see how Grand Floridian is received. Poly is the crown jewel and they could easily push back DVC plans by a decade, waiting for inflation to (hopefully) carry market prices even higher.

Ft. Wilderness is still in the mix but given that it would be all new construction, again the profit margins are a factor. DVC doesn't want to spend $100+ million on Ft. Wilderness and then be forced to charge prices comparable to the $115-120 (net) they are getting today for AKV.

 

[pilferk]

perhaps...knowing that it would be a slam dunk at the poly...they are attempting to go "every other" when it comes to high profile DVC construciton....build at contemporary, take more of a risk at animal kingdom, build at grand floridian, try to flesh out the ft wilderness area, THEN build another at contemp or at poly...

Just a minor correction:

AKV went on sale (with Jambo units, but still) long before the Contemp did, in early 2007. It was announced in Oct '06. The first units opened in July 2007 and Kidani opened in May of '09.

Bay Lake Tower (though permits were filed in Nov '06 and construction...or rather demolition...stareted in Jan '07) wasn't announced until Sept '08 (the WORST kept secret, considering they'd gotten approval to sell units and formed their association months earlier). Sales started later that month. The first units opened in Aug of '09.

 

[pilferk]

Agree regarding potential expansion at AKL. The current layout looks similar to the skeleton of an elephant/mammoth skull. I would guess there is a plan somewhere to complete the design...

When the original lodge was built, DVC was always part of the plan (though NOT the conversion of the "Deluxe" rooms..that was a shoehorn). They actually ran infrastructure and did site prep, way back during AKL construction, of the Kidani site. That's one of the biggest reasons they ended up moving forward with Kidani BEFORE Bay Lake Tower...a lot of the work was done, and they had significant demonlition/cleanup/foundation work to do over at the Contemp.

But that infrastructure is tapped, already. IF they add more DVC units near Animal Kingdom:

a) I'm not sure it would be part of the existing AKL resort
b) if it was they'd have significant expansion/infrastructure/site prep/road and parking work to do to "fit" it. While they could hybrid off of SOME of the amenities...they'd need to run all new infrastructure.
c) I'm not sure the resort could handle another 500 DVC units added to it, in terms of amenity capacity. Given that...actually adding it might be counter-productive to the reason Disney adds DVC to exisitng resorts rather than building out stand alones (like SSR).

I wouldn't be surprised to see DVC go in somewhere AROUND AK. But I think it would either be a stand alone DVC resort or "something else" new.

 

[pilferk]

Maybe it's just me, but i don't see the skull?

I don't know about a skull, but...Kidani looks like a set of horns, with the main lobby looking sort of like the center piece.

Jambo sort of looks like a giant goblet. Larger part (the "bowl) faces Arusha savanna. Smaller part (the "base") faces the parking lots/entrance.

 

[pilferk]

Missed this the first time around, but I'm not sure how having more people staying near AK would drive more guests to AK.

The only way I could see it maybe and its a huge maybe, would be a direct walk way to AK, but it would maybe only work if they expanded hours and added more TS . Similar to how Epcot can get more guests with PH's at night from the resorts outside the IG. They go to the WS to eat, hang out and see Illuminations.

If Disney wants more people to go to AK they need more stuff for people to do at AK.

A walkway to AK would be almost impossible. We've gone round about this before, but aside from the distance (which would be much further than any current walkway, even at Epcot, to a park), you have a lake/pond, marsh area, and significant wildlife...not to mention a pretty busy intersection...to deal with.

But I agree: If they want AK to draw more, they need to put more stuff to do in AK.

And they won't (beyond Avatarland), because it actually doesn't make much sense for them to do it.

 

[pilferk]

In Disney's mind, Art of Animation has broken the mold on the old Value / Moderate / Deluxe model. They see it as fitting somewhere between Value and Moderate.

I think Disney over-reached with AOA on pricing. We'll see. It's new, so occupancy will probalby be fine for awhile. And they did a pretty good job with the resort themeing, itself. But they've priced themselves WAY above market (I think the ASM family suites would have been a better model)..and I think that might hurt them.

It'll be interesting to see what occupancy does, given the price point they chose (and the lack of any real reason to charge the premium), in the future. I know there's been some pretty vocal outcry (and not just on the disboards) about the pricing scheme.

Similarly Coronado Springs could be positioned between Moderate and Deluxe. It already has a decent pool, convention facilities and Sammy Duvall was brought in to expand the watersports offerings. The rooms run about 320 sq ft which is on par with the "Value" rooms at Animal Kingdom Villas. It also has a few dozen larger "Suite" rooms.

I'd be surprised, largely because Coronado does such a good convention business BECAUSE it's a nice alternative to the much more expensive Contemporary. Not shocked, but surprised.

 

[tjkraz]

I'd be surprised, largely because Coronado does such a good convention business BECAUSE it's a nice alternative to the much more expensive Contemporary. Not shocked, but surprised.

In the most fleshed-out version of this plan, Coronado Springs would still maintain several hundred cash rooms. Same concept as BoardWalk, Beach Club, Contemp and others which have cash rooms, villas and convention facilities.

CS has nearly 2000 rooms today. With 3 rooms needed for a single Two bedroom Villa, they could convert it to 500 villas and 500 cash rooms, 400 villas + 800 cash rooms, etc.

Nothing is a certainty until development is well underway but this is one project under consideration.

 

[chartle]

A walkway to AK would be almost impossible. We've gone round about this before, but aside from the distance (which would be much further than any current walkway, even at Epcot, to a park), you have a lake/pond, marsh area, and significant wildlife...not to mention a pretty busy intersection...to deal with.

But I agree: If they want AK to draw more, they need to put more stuff to do in AK.

And they won't (beyond Avatarland), because it actually doesn't make much sense for them to do it.

Thats why its a huge maybe. They would have to build this new resort between AK and AKL and probably add another entrance.

Like I said just being close doesn't drive traffic. Once on a bus or in a car its only a few more minutes to DHS and then a few more to Epcot and a few more to the MK.

 

[quikah]

Thats why its a huge maybe. They would have to build this new resort between AK and AKL and probably add another entrance.

Like I said just being close doesn't drive traffic. Once on a bus or in a car its only a few more minutes to DHS and then a few more to Epcot and a few more to the MK.

They could (not that they would) build a train or dig a canal for a boat between AKL and AK.

 

[pilferk]

They could (not that they would) build a train or dig a canal for a boat between AKL and AK.

Trains would be hard because, again, you'd have to cross a relatively busy intersection. You'd need to make a "loop"...AND you'd have to have some sort of maintenance area along the way where you could pull trains off tracks to work on them. In addition...they're not very efficient. Certainly less efficient than the buses are, given the distances involved.

A Canal would be hard, too. You'd either have to bridge under the existing road way (difficult, at best...possibly impossible) OR you'd have to create a raised bridge that could open to let boats through. It would have to be wide enough to accommodate at LEAST 2 boats, and maybe more (for emergency response purposes). I'm not sure they have the room..but maybe.

Look..given enough money and resources...almost ANYTHING is possible (certainly any of the suggestions here). But walkway, trains, or boats...all would take significant investments to put in, maintain, and operate (even the walkway). I'd be shocked, given the "bang for the buck", if they happened. Heck, Disney couldn't/wouldn't even complete a walkway all the way around Bay Lake!

 

[MUDisneyCouple]

I don't see why they don't let DVC members purchase points in the cabins and then redo River Country as a pool for both DVC and Fort Wilderness. We stayed in a cabin and it was perfect almost better than the DVC we have!