Riveira and Boardwalk

[RoseGold]

IMO, this would be a better option for DVC members on a more broad scale. I know there are many on here that will disagree and say APs are the only way, but I think more DVC members could justify this option over APs. And, DVC could control those more than they really can APs unless they come out with some "DVC AP" that is linked to DVC stays.

There are a lot of ways, like a 15 day/yr punch card or an on-site only AP or general day pass discounts or whatever, but none of them have been offered, even as a Blue Card perk. They haven't been offered because Disney doesn't feel the need to offer it.

If DVC is going to do something like this, I'd guess they tie it to Poly2 sales opening and charge accordingly.

 

[BeachClub2014]

If you are buying assuming DVC goes to zero in a decade, then DVC doesn't make sense to buy at all mathematically. Renting is smarter, or just staying in a hotel room. If this is your projection on this product, it's too risky to buy. And why take on this risk when there are so many other choices?

This could flip as the 2024s get close to expiration, but right now even the board sponsor chart assumes linear depreciation, which is going to zero in 22 years for a few of them.

I have a lot of DVC. But IMO DVC is right for few people. Buying direct is right for even fewer. That's not a bad thing, it's just a situation-specific thing. And how you plan to use it matters.

I understand and respect this perspective, but I don't see it the same way. I, too, have what I consider a lot of DVC points. If I use those points to stay at DVC each year and avoid paying cash rates, either rack or discounted, then DVC makes financial sense.

And yes, I know that renting is an option for some, but not us. And the Swolphin is lovely to look at, from the outside and from afar. Point is, DVC makes sense for many, even if you buy points directly.

 

[Brian Noble]

Is this the reason for the crowds?

Partly.

(The rest of this is entirely speculation, sometimes well-informed, but usually not.)

A lot of people had travel planned (or at least, expected) in the first year or two of the pandemic, and most of those trips didn't happen. That money they didn't spend on travel (or commuting, or restaurants, or or or) just sort of accumulated, along with unsued timeshare weeks, unspent frequent flyer miles, and so on. Once the curtain started lifting, there was a lot of money (and timeshare weeks and frequent flyer miles) burning holes in people's pockets. Even then, it took a while to get going full tilt, and my guess is that's only happened in the past six to eight months or so---about the time the aviation mask mandate was lifted.

So, there's a lot of unspent travel dollars, and that's before we even added the dollars that folks would ordinarily have set aside this year for even more travel. Just as with my timeshare weeks, it will probably take folks a while to spend that down. Maybe not all will be spent on travel, but while it is let the good times roll.

There's also the "pandemic rebound" effect, which has nothing to do with unspent money, and everything to do with The Roaring Twenties Part Duex. Ever wonder why the 1920s were a decade of wretched excess? Yes, WWI had just ended, but the late 40s/50s didn't replicate that when WWII ended. Sure, there was lots of money and prosperity and all that, but it didn't come paired with WOOOOOO---that didn't happen until the 60s. The other thing that happened in 1918-1920? The influenza pandemic. About 1/3 of everyone walking the planet infected, and roughly 15M-50M dead (and maybe more) out of about 1.8B people---so on the order of 1-3%. No wonder they all got drunk (in spite of prohibition) and put on tuxedo hats and sequined dresses.

The 1918-20 pandemic was much worse than what we've been through the past three years, and the past three years has been...well, it's been a lot. So we might not suddenly all break out in the Charleston, but folks are ready to let their hair down and laissez les bons temps rouler. What better way to do that than travel?

[Interlude: Ever wonder why there isn't much entertainment-oriented TV or film about the pandemic? I didn't until my wife brought it up, and then I realized: there basically isn't any. There wasn't much about the influenza pandemic in the Roaring 20s either. People didn't want to relive it. Did. Not. Want.]

Finally, I think there might be some structural re-thinking in the role of work vs. leisure in our lives. You know the whole "quiet quitting" thing that's been in the news lately? That's just Captial's way of rephrasing-with-judgement what Labor is doing, which is: treating jobs like jobs instead of life callings. When work isn't (or is less of) one's identity, it's a lot easier to start taking that PTO that you used to let expire, and using it to travel. (Seriously. One of my biggest problems when I was in management was staff that let their vacation days expire.) I will not be surprised if we look back on the 2020s and find that folks are taking statistically-significantly more vacations than they did in the 2000s.

 

[Sandisw]

As they made clear at the most recent meeting -- The core of DVC is a discounted room. They really don't feel they are obligated to give more than that.



My guess -- Fewer than you would think.
Remember, this board is NOT representative of DVC overall. This board tends to veer towards the more hard core DVCers -- Those with lots of points, those who go to WDW very often, and therefore, a good number of AP holders.

While I don't know the percentages, LOTS of DVCers are really only 1 trip per year people. Or even, 1 trip every other year. People for whom buying APs wouldn't really make sense.

If I was forced to guess, the percentage of DVC owners who are also AP holders, it's probably significantly under 50%.

I have shared. Other than one other family, all my DVC friends are once a year and have never had them.

 

[Sandisw]

IMO, this would be a better option for DVC members on a more broad scale. I know there are many on here that will disagree and say APs are the only way, but I think more DVC members could justify this option over APs. And, DVC could control those more than they really can APs unless they come out with some "DVC AP" that is linked to DVC stays.

I actually agree with you. I think a decent ticket discount would reach far more DVC owners than then the DVC AP does.

 

[hglenn]

I actually agree with you. I think a decent ticket discount would reach far more DVC owners than then the DVC AP does.

For sure... and until O14 goes to O9, I would think that would be the biggest carrot they could offer for direct... (even though it's not guaranteed!)

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC makes its money primarily by selling timeshares, and only secondarily by servicing existing owners. There is no reason to "reach more owners," and especially not with a tangible benefit that actually costs the company money in either direct costs or lost revenue.

Most Members are already buying park admission for most of their stays--the Parks are why they are Members. Discounting tickets is just leaving money on the table. That's different from, for example, the merch discount, which I suspect might end up generating more revenue on purchases at the margin than it gives up in lower prices. "Well, we do get a discount, and I don't have Star Wars ears yet!"

The primary purpose of Membership Extras is to crank up the razzle-dazzle on the sales floor. That most Members do not buy APs is great news for Disney--an AP discount (really: access to the cheaper one with blockout dates) looks super-awesome, but its something most Members wouldn't ordinarily buy absent the discount.

And, at that point, it might serve as an upsell, just like the merch discount. "An AP is only a little more than one set of tickets. Let's go an extra time this year."

 

[floridavet]

If you are buying assuming DVC goes to zero in a decade, then DVC doesn't make sense to buy at all mathematically. Renting is smarter, or just staying in a hotel room. If this is your projection on this product, it's too risky to buy. And why take on this risk when there are so many other choices?

This could flip as the 2024s get close to expiration, but right now even the board sponsor chart assumes linear depreciation, which is going to zero in 22 years for a few of them.

I have a lot of DVC. But IMO DVC is right for few people. Buying direct is right for even fewer. That's not a bad thing, it's just a situation-specific thing. And how you plan to use it matters.

I mean I would strongly argue the mathematics of DVC aren’t good no matter how you spin it. It’s a luxury purchase that will save a small minority money in the long run.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Unless they are eliminated as an option for all..and nothing yet to suggest that..then it may not have a widespread impact.

If they do stop them as a product I’d bet you’d see a multi ticket discount added for people as well.

Now, if no AP program and no ticket discount, then there will be people who will find DVC difficult.

It would be very cool to see the numbers as to what % of DVC actually are AP holders.

Yeah I was being facetious saying the product would be worthless without them. Just poking fun at a sentiment that comes up from time to time. I know some depend on them, but DVC as a product would be just fine without them.

 

[SLThomas318]

I mean I would strongly argue the mathematics of DVC aren’t good no matter how you spin it. It’s a luxury purchase that will save a small minority money in the long run.

This! My hubby reminds me all the time about how much “extra” money we would have without DVC

 

[havoc315]

I actually agree with you. I think a decent ticket discount would reach far more DVC owners than then the DVC AP does.

I'd love to see a special product for DVC, something like a multi-day pass, where the days stay good all year. So maybe a 10 day ticket, for the same price as the current 10 day ticket (do they go that high?), but the days are good all year.
Such product would really encourage DVC owners to stay a bit longer or encourage 1-trip guests to tack on a second trip.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'd love to see a special product for DVC, something like a multi-day pass, where the days stay good all year. So maybe a 10 day ticket, for the same price as the current 10 day ticket (do they go that high?), but the days are good all year.
Such product would really encourage DVC owners to stay a bit longer or encourage 1-trip guests to tack on a second trip.

I would buy those all day.

 

[tom1944]

This! My hubby reminds me all the time about how much “extra” money we would have without DVC

But are you both glad you purchased it?

 

[SLThomas318]

But are you both glad you purchased it?

Yes! We both recognize it’s a luxury purchase and have not once regretted it. We also looked at ALL the numbers prior to buying because we knew a Disney trip (for us) is more then just the room. We live in PA so we have the cost of a flight. We wouldn’t go and not go to a park, so we knew we’d always have the cost of park tickets. We just got an owners locker to make packing easier. We just recognize that a bunch of other costs came along with our DVC purchase. We joke with each other and call it “Disney Math!” Ideally we save some money on the room portion of our trips over time, but no one has a crystal ball and can predict the future.

 

[NVDISFamily]

I'd love to see a special product for DVC, something like a multi-day pass, where the days stay good all year. So maybe a 10 day ticket, for the same price as the current 10 day ticket (do they go that high?), but the days are good all year.
Such product would really encourage DVC owners to stay a bit longer or encourage 1-trip guests to tack on a second trip.

Please make it good at both WDW and Disneyland! I'd be good for at least one a year. If you make the days bankable for next year I'd likely need 1.5 of them a year.

Don't really need or want a AP. Would force me to go more often than we need to find value (even though I know better about the sunk costs). I want to mix it up with some relaxing resort days too

It has crossed my mind

I am impressed by all of you who have pictures of the multiple resorts you own on every post

DO IT..... You are amongst addicts so we might encourage you to do silly things. You aren't really living life unless your dues budget can pay for a okay used car each year...

 

[hglenn]

DVC makes its money primarily by selling timeshares, and only secondarily by servicing existing owners. There is no reason to "reach more owners," and especially not with a tangible benefit that actually costs the company money in either direct costs or lost revenue.

Most Members are already buying park admission for most of their stays--the Parks are why they are Members. Discounting tickets is just leaving money on the table. That's different from, for example, the merch discount, which I suspect might end up generating more revenue on purchases at the margin than it gives up in lower prices. "Well, we do get a discount, and I don't have Star Wars ears yet!"

The primary purpose of Membership Extras is to crank up the razzle-dazzle on the sales floor. That most Members do not buy APs is great news for Disney--an AP discount (really: access to the cheaper one with blockout dates) looks super-awesome, but its something most Members wouldn't ordinarily buy absent the discount.

And, at that point, it might serve as an upsell, just like the merch discount. "An AP is only a little more than one set of tickets. Let's go an extra time this year."

And here comes Brian will all of his Econ 101 logical speak.... LOL. (darn you!)

Ok, I can understand what you're saying here... However, I am a DVC member who does not intend to buy park tickets when I go. I would buy an AP, but I'm not paying full price for tickets each of my trips. So, am I an outlier here? Perhaps. Maybe we're not the norm. However, all that to say, don't you think that DVC should recognize the value of a happy DVC member? It's a proud group - we buy the merch, have the bumper stickers, use the DVC logo in our social profile pics... walking advertising for the product. To me, that's what's missing now... all these changes and such. I see so many legacy DVC members talking about the "good ole days" and that seems to be quickly fading away - many even to the point of selling after owning for 10+ years. At some point, don't you think there's "value" in having happy customers who feel seen? That has to translate into dollars at some point?

 

[Brian Noble]

So, am I an outlier here?

I'd say that you are.

More importantly, I'd say that Disney probably doesn't care. The parks are "full enough" with full-fare guests. Unless and until that is no longer true, they won't discount the gate.

 

[BamaGuy44]

I'd love to see a special product for DVC, something like a multi-day pass, where the days stay good all year. So maybe a 10 day ticket, for the same price as the current 10 day ticket (do they go that high?), but the days are good all year.
Such product would really encourage DVC owners to stay a bit longer or encourage 1-trip guests to tack on a second trip.

That would be perfect for so many of us. Let's talk it into existence!

 

[CarolMN]

However, I am a DVC member who does not intend to buy park tickets when I go. I would buy an AP, but I'm not paying full price for tickets each of my trips. So, am I an outlier here?

The vast majority of DVC Members do go to the parks when they visit. Most all of us would not have purchased DVC without the lure of the parks.

That said, we will not pay full price for tickets, either. So far, we have been able to renew our APs. If that becomes unavailable, we would either use points for non-Disney options or (more- likely) sell. I doubt Disney cares which we choose. We're long since broken even, so even if we have to give our contracts away to avoid the dues, it won't bother us.

 

[hglenn]

The vast majority of DVC Members do go to the parks when they visit. Most all of us would not have purchased DVC without the lure of the parks.

That said, we will not pay full price for tickets, either. So far, we have been able to renew our APs. If that becomes unavailable, we would either use points for non-Disney options or (more- likely) sell. I doubt Disney cares which we choose. We're long since broken even, so even if we have to give our contracts away to avoid the dues, it won't bother us.

I get that. We love the parks, too, but honestly really just enjoy the Disney bubble - the food, DS, free transportation, drink options. So much to love outside of the parks. And, we are not beach people so it's not like we would really prefer a different location. If I could by APs (even at full price) I totally would but we've had multiple park-free trips that were great!

ETA - and less expensive!