Riveira and Boardwalk

[BeachClub2014]

Maybe you and DVC are cool with people getting burned. I'm not. It's gross to me that this is the new timeshare-y business model, but hey, I'm not sure why I'm surprised after how DVC behaved in Aulani and Vero.

To me, this is a different product than legacy DVC. Sure, for some people it's still the right choice. But there are a whole lot of other choices. To know what is right for you, you have to know what you are doing with this product.

Interesting that you suggest people being "burned" in their DVC ownership. I would be interested to hear more about that. Who's doing the "burning," and for what purpose?

 

[RoseGold]

Interesting that you suggest people being "burned" in their DVC ownership. I would be interested to hear more about that. Who's doing the "burning," and for what purpose?

I mean that's the point of the resale restrictions. Maybe DVC will miraculously reverse course and RIV will be the only restricted resort, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I mean that's the point of the resale restrictions. Maybe DVC will miraculously reverse course and RIV will be the only restricted resort, I'm not holding my breath.

Ah, okay. I'm still unclear on how people are burned by the resale restrictions, but you had me a bit concerned that perhaps I was being burned and wasn't aware.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Ah, okay. I'm still unclear on how people are burned by the resale restrictions, but you had me a bit concerned that perhaps I was being burned and wasn't aware.

Just the chafing from the cheap toilet paper.

 

[Brian Noble]

My advice to most people: If you are seriously thinking about selling in the near term (where "near" is a decade or so) then you don't really understand why timeshares are great.

They are not great because they save you money. They don't save you money. Show me any timeshare owner who claims to spend less on vacations after they became owners, and I'll show you someone who isn't being honest with themselves.

The point of a timeshare is not to save money. I mean, I suppose it is possible. And yes, it is true I am "saving" on the lodging portion of my timeshare stays vs. just renting that some other way. But, I am taking many more vacations than I would if just left to my own devices. The point of a timeshare is that you are putting yourself in a use-it-or-lose-it situation, and that makes vacation something important that you plan for and plan other things around, rather than something you fit in when you have time.

If the purchase price and ongoing costs are comfortably within your discretionary budget, and you like the idea of committing to vacations, then just buy the thing. Yes, you might get a few dollars later on when you (or your heirs) are liquidating your holdings, and that's great. Found money is always cool.

But, someone who is buying DVC with the expectation that they are going to get $X back when they sell is taking on risk. Is that risk large, or small? I don't know, I'm not an actuary. I do know that (a) past performance does not guarantee future results and (b) there have definitely been times when DVC owners were underwater and could not sell without bringing money to the table.

 

[DonMacGregor]

And yet, after complaining innumerous times about feeling burned, cheated, sold a product of lessening value and utility, forced to use inferior toilet paper, saddled with a horrible web experience, and with apparently readily available, more attractive, and cheaper options like renting points or staying at the (purportedly) vastly superior and less expensive Swolphin, that make far better financial sense (and with a thoroughly considered exit strategy in place), some still inexplicably remain.

I mean it can't be a desire to take WDW vacations, because the rent points/Swolphin option is apparently an equal if not better alternative. It can't be for downstream financial profit if the value and quality of the product is decreasing and its future so dire. And it can't be due to being trapped in an unwanted/undesirable timeshare contact, as an exit strategy is in place that the original purchase was incumbent upon.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If the purchase price and ongoing costs are comfortably within your discretionary budget, and you like the idea of committing to vacations, then just buy the thing. Yes, you might get a few dollars later on when you (or your heirs) are liquidating your holdings, and that's great. Found money is always cool.

Someone said it better than me. Thanks

 

[BamaGuy44]

And yet, after complaining innumerous times about feeling burned, cheated, sold a product of lessening value and utility, forced to use inferior toilet paper, saddled with a horrible web experience, and with apparently readily available, more attractive, and cheaper options like renting points or staying at the (purportedly) vastly superior and less expensive Swolphin, that make far better financial sense (and with a thoroughly considered exit strategy in place), some still inexplicably remain.

I mean it can't be a desire to take WDW vacations, because the rent points/Swolphin option is apparently an equal if not better alternative. It can't be for downstream financial profit if the value and quality of the product is decreasing and its future so dire. And it can't be due to being trapped in an unwanted/undesirable timeshare contact, as an exit strategy is in place that the original purchase was incumbent upon.

You forgot that the entire DVC product is worthless and doomed without AP sales

 

[thanxfornoticin]

You forgot that the entire DVC product is worthless and doomed without AP sales

Yea, I've heard that rumor. Based on the difficulty getting a room reservation, though, it doesn't yet appear to be true....... seems that even though many DVC owners would immediately buy APs again if they could, it's not stopping them from visiting!! APs were never part of the DVC equation for many owners.....

 

[DonMacGregor]

Yea, I've heard that rumor. Based on the difficulty getting a room reservation, though, it doesn't yet appear to be true....... seems that even though many DVC owners would immediately buy APs again if they could, it's not stopping them from visiting!! APs were never part of the DVC equation for many owners.....

 

[tom1944]

My advice to most people: If you are seriously thinking about selling in the near term (where "near" is a decade or so) then you don't really understand why timeshares are great.

They are not great because they save you money. They don't save you money. Show me any timeshare owner who claims to spend less on vacations after they became owners, and I'll show you someone who isn't being honest with themselves.

The point of a timeshare is not to save money. I mean, I suppose it is possible. And yes, it is true I am "saving" on the lodging portion of my timeshare stays vs. just renting that some other way. But, I am taking many more vacations than I would if just left to my own devices. The point of a timeshare is that you are putting yourself in a use-it-or-lose-it situation, and that makes vacation something important that you plan for and plan other things around, rather than something you fit in when you have time.

If the purchase price and ongoing costs are comfortably within your discretionary budget, and you like the idea of committing to vacations, then just buy the thing. Yes, you might get a few dollars later on when you (or your heirs) are liquidating your holdings, and that's great. Found money is always cool.

But, someone who is buying DVC with the expectation that they are going to get $X back when they sell is taking on risk. Is that risk large, or small? I don't know, I'm not an actuary. I do know that (a) past performance does not guarantee future results and (b) there have definitely been times when DVC owners were underwater and could not sell without bringing money to the table.

This why I want to buy. I want the structure of feeling like we have to take a vacation. Add the environment of a contained vacation location where two people who operate at different speeds and time but still be able to easily meet up and this fits for us.

The final factor is free cash from accumulated unused vacation to pay for it.

 

[Brian Noble]

I want the structure of feeling like we have to take a vacation.

There is a downside to this.

We own five "weeks" worth of timeshare. The last two were bought in the summer of 2019, and we all know what happened right after that. So, we have a backlog of "extra" weeks we have to try to burn through, and it is hard! But I am doing my level best.

 

[tom1944]

There is a downside to this.

We own five "weeks" worth of timeshare. The last two were bought in the summer of 2019, and we all know what happened right after that. So, we have a backlog of "extra" weeks we have to try to burn through, and it is hard! But I am doing my level best.

Is this the reason for the crowds?

 

[DonMacGregor]

There is a downside to this.

We own five "weeks" worth of timeshare. The last two were bought in the summer of 2019, and we all know what happened right after that. So, we have a backlog of "extra" weeks we have to try to burn through, and it is hard! But I am doing my level best.

The struggle is real...

 

[havoc315]

Five figures (six, depending on taste ) is a car. A ski condo is mid-six to seven figures, so a $10, $20, or $30K DVC contract is nothing like buying a ski condo, or any other type of condo. Completely different beast. It’s all relative to wealth and income. This is NOT a flex, but two of the cars currently in my garage each cost double my total investment in DVC. One, significantly more. I’ve never purchased a car wondering how I’ll get rid of it. Of all factors, that isn’t one. Practically speaking, there are many other owners with far, far more disposable income than me. Heck, the 3,000 point members are paying five figures ANNUALLY, just in dues…

ETA: Some stuff you just buy and that’s it. Do you exit strategize an engagement ring, or a wedding dress? At some point in your life, you don’t need to get something back for everything. If your child shows passion for a musical instrument, do you buy the cheapest one or one you know you can resell, even though it may not play well and sounds terrible, or do you buy one that plays the best, stays in tune and sounds wonderful, thereby nurturing your child’s passion?

Anyway, as I’ve said before, prior to DVC forums, I’ve never heard of anyone discussing exit strategies for non investment purchases, so I guess we all have our opinions.

But you are buying only 1 engagement ring and 1 wedding dress. Would you buy 20 engagement rings at once, "just in case" you might want to marry multiple women, or in case you fiance loses her ring a bunch of time? Do you buy 1 musical instrument for your child, or do you buy them the entire orchestra, just in case they want to try multiple instruments?

Buying DVC isn't buying 1 hotel stay. It's buying dozens of hotel stays at all once. So yes, you should have at least a rough idea of how you intend to use those stays.
On the extreme side, if your plan is, "maybe I'll just go to Disney world once in my life, or maybe I'll go 50 times" -- Then DVC wouldn't be a great purchase, to pay $30,000 for potentially a single hotel stay.

 

[Sandisw]

You forgot that the entire DVC product is worthless and doomed without AP sales

Unless they are eliminated as an option for all..and nothing yet to suggest that..then it may not have a widespread impact.

If they do stop them as a product I’d bet you’d see a multi ticket discount added for people as well.

Now, if no AP program and no ticket discount, then there will be people who will find DVC difficult.

It would be very cool to see the numbers as to what % of DVC actually are AP holders.

 

[DonMacGregor]

But you are buying only 1 engagement ring and 1 wedding dress. Would you buy 20 engagement rings at once, "just in case" you might want to marry multiple women, or in case you fiance loses her ring a bunch of time? Do you buy 1 musical instrument for your child, or do you buy them the entire orchestra, just in case they want to try multiple instruments?

Buying DVC isn't buying 1 hotel stay. It's buying dozens of hotel stays at all once. So yes, you should have at least a rough idea of how you intend to use those stays.
On the extreme side, if your plan is, "maybe I'll just go to Disney world once in my life, or maybe I'll go 50 times" -- Then DVC wouldn't be a great purchase, to pay $30,000 for potentially a single hotel stay.

Not the point. The argument made is that ANY purchase, whether it's one-off, or one of 20 (because people DO buy a single DVC contract) somehow requires a projected what-if scenario. And, it's not a question of how you will use or not use the widget, it's about determining how you can get rid of the widget down the road and get some money back, regardless of circumstances. If you can't, then apparently it's a waste of money, a fool's errand.

The argument is not about thoroughly thinking through how you intend to use DVC (or anything you buy for that matter). Anyone would agree that is prudent and no one is suggesting capriciously tossing money out the DVC window. It's not about hubris. It's about only buying something REGARDLESS of how you intend to use it, if there is some guarantee that you can recoup some portion of the purchase cost (because, in DVC terms, that's what an exit strategy is: making some money back). With that, I disagree.

 

[havoc315]

Unless they are eliminated as an option for all..and nothing yet to suggest that..then it may not have a widespread impact.

If they do stop them as a product I’d bet you’d see a multi ticket discount added for people as well.

Now, if no AP program and no ticket discount, then there will be people who will find DVC difficult.

As they made clear at the most recent meeting -- The core of DVC is a discounted room. They really don't feel they are obligated to give more than that.

It would be very cool to see the numbers as to what % of DVC actually are AP holders.

My guess -- Fewer than you would think.
Remember, this board is NOT representative of DVC overall. This board tends to veer towards the more hard core DVCers -- Those with lots of points, those who go to WDW very often, and therefore, a good number of AP holders.

While I don't know the percentages, LOTS of DVCers are really only 1 trip per year people. Or even, 1 trip every other year. People for whom buying APs wouldn't really make sense.

If I was forced to guess, the percentage of DVC owners who are also AP holders, it's probably significantly under 50%.

 

[RoseGold]

If the purchase price and ongoing costs are comfortably within your discretionary budget, and you like the idea of committing to vacations, then just buy the thing. Yes, you might get a few dollars later on when you (or your heirs) are liquidating your holdings, and that's great. Found money is always cool.

If you are buying assuming DVC goes to zero in a decade, then DVC doesn't make sense to buy at all mathematically. Renting is smarter, or just staying in a hotel room. If this is your projection on this product, it's too risky to buy. And why take on this risk when there are so many other choices?

This could flip as the 2024s get close to expiration, but right now even the board sponsor chart assumes linear depreciation, which is going to zero in 22 years for a few of them.

I have a lot of DVC. But IMO DVC is right for few people. Buying direct is right for even fewer. That's not a bad thing, it's just a situation-specific thing. And how you plan to use it matters.

 

[hglenn]

If they do stop them as a product I’d bet you’d see a multi ticket discount added for people as well.

IMO, this would be a better option for DVC members on a more broad scale. I know there are many on here that will disagree and say APs are the only way, but I think more DVC members could justify this option over APs. And, DVC could control those more than they really can APs unless they come out with some "DVC AP" that is linked to DVC stays.