Right On Kathy and Kevin!!!

[WaltD4Me]

Hmm...

While I think the sense of entitlement in the parks was certainly exacerbated by the Internet, I don't think in any way it was created by it.

I have a great many memories from the pre-Internet days of fellow park guests complaining loudly over the smallest things. I can remember someone at Columbia Harbor House screeching at a CM because the ketchup was too sweet...

I'm not sure what the cause of this is, aside from basic selfishness and perhaps people having a false imagining of everything in the MK being absolutely perfect.

We've all seen people arguing at the parks and parents asking their children at the tops of their lungs if they know how much this vacation is costing them. And while I'm not claiming it's been all smooth sailing between my family members and loved ones, it's always amazed me just how miserable some folks can be in a place that so closely mimics paradise.

Are things getting worse or are we just getting older ? Perhaps a bit of both, it's hard to separate reality from personal perception at times.

Many people have asked me over the years why I never tried to work for Disney, saying I'd make the perfect Jungle Cruise captain and such, and my answer has always been that Disney is my "magic place" and I don't really want to see "behind the curtain" for fear of ruining the illusion.

But, maybe the real answer to that question is that I just couldn't deal with having to wait on so many upset and angry people on a daily basis. People who should counting their blessings for being able to attend this happiest of places with their families and instead are as miserable as can be. That would be the real shattering of the experience for me.

Very well said!

I also think part of it is, through the internet we HEAR the complaints much more. Before the DIS, I'm sure there were people out there that thought their vacations were ruined because they didn't get a towel animal and I'm sure there were people who felt they were entitled to wake up Tinkerbell, but I didn't know about it because they didn't have a forum to complain on.

You also have the issue, that has sadly always been true, people are more likely to take the time to complain than take the time to compliment. And we tend to remember the complaints more. Those threads go on for pages, where as the ones about how great it was that to get a free Mickey bar for a birthday get knocked off the front page alot quicker.

Additionally, I can sort of understand people's disappointments sometimes. I'm not talking about when it's taken to the extreme of a vacation being ruined or the entitlement of it, but I remember the first time I planned a trip using the DIS. I was BLOWN away by all the information here and without a doubt, the things I learned here MADE that trip. Those things enhanced our trip and absolutely made it more special, but for some reason I got it in my head that we HAD to see Devine at AK. I don't know why, but I admit to getting a bit obsessed about seeing her and when we didn't I was sooooooooooooooooooooooo disappointed. I didn't demand my money back or think the whole trip was ruined, but I almost let it ruin our day AK. I don't know, you read about all these wonderful things and sometimes in the moment, it doesn't occur to you that the 100 wonderful things you read about happened to 100 different people and all those 100 wonderful things can't possibly all happen to you in one trip.

 

[dansyr2514]

Hi Amy,


I think the point Kathy and I were making is that some folks seem to feel entitled to every single piece of Magic in WDW.

If a guest gets a bit of unexpected pixie dust on their vacation and comes back and shares that "little Susie go to do XYZ while in the Magic Kingdom", then there will be folks whose "vacations are RUINED if little Sarah doesnt get to do exactly the same thing. This is the only thing that little Sarah wanted to do and now she's in psychotherapy because she didnt get to do XYZ and Disney should invite them back from for free so that little Sarah can see get back to her normal life after this devastating loss."



Hope that helps clear things up.

I totally agree with the discussion you had. These boards are a double edged sword. I honestly don't know what I would have done without them to plan the first couple of trips. On the other hand...sometimes you can just have too much information. You know what is going to happen, where and when...there are no suprises left.

But the one thing I did want to comment on is "entitlement". I think it is much more widespread than just WDW. The younger generation( at least a large portion of it) is growing up entitled. I don't want to sound too righteous but I think in general their is more of a focus on status then when I was younger. It's all about having better than your neighbor. Someone on the boards might mention some magical pixie dust that happened to them and that portion of society feels entitled that they should also have that pixie dust or better that that so they can report back about better things that happened to them.

Sorry if I sound cynical....and I am not stereotyping every disneylover, forum member, or commando. Most people I've met on the dis have been wonderful but I do think there is a larger group today than in the past that is addicted to the one upmanship.

 

[disneyholic family]

I was a single parent bringing 3 children to Disney. I considered myself very lucky when I got to visit Disney. We were thrilled just to be there. We didn't do table service restaurants because the budget didn't allow it.

We didn't have annual passes and we were lucky to go as many times as we did. But in our minds this was our once in a lifetime trip. We left knowing it may be a long time before we visited again.

We didn't take other vacations, go out to dinner, movies and the kids and I saved every cent we could so we could manage to go back to WDW.

One of the most memorable trips for my family was when I had enough to get us to WDW but not a lot of extra money for fancy meals. We went to the grocery store and got the makings for sandwiches. The kids loved it.

Kathy, we didn't talk about this when we were having a dinner that was the exact opposite of what you describe...or maybe we did....

in any case, over the years, we have had every level of trip to disney, and they have all been magical ...whether we stayed at the cheapest days inn i could find when the kids were little (since that was all that we could afford back then), to our trips staying at the GF RPC concierge....
they were all wonderful....first of all, because we were all together, which was the main point of it all....and we just had a good time doing whatever at the mouse....

so many great 'quiet' memories....at AK eating ice cream in this secluded place behind where they used to sell ice cream in africa - they sell sandwiches there now) ...we would sit there just talking and laughing and eating our melting ice cream....in the middle of july....in AK....with masses of crowds just a few feet away zipping by where we were sitting...
or sitting behind sleepy hollow, back when it used to sell vegetarian stuff....no one went near the place back then, so there was absolutely not a soul in that area behind it...we would just sit there in the quiet and chill out and sort of breathe in the atmosphere.....i'm not very good at putting it into words, but those are our memories....and so many of them...and that's what WDW is to us....that and the CMs who smile and say hi....and chat with us about where they're from and what brought them to disney....
and the other guests....most of them so very happy to be there...and some of them just relaxing and enjoying life....

not that it's all perfect...nothing ever is....but it is what you make of it....
the fact that we could be together....how perfect is that after all ...

 

[cj9200]

cj9200, I agree that it's fun to do different stuff, but it doesn't have to cost anything extra. My partner and I had a great time when a bird landed on the balcony outside our room in March. We got lots of pictures, video, etc, even asked the bird if he was as cold as we were, LOL.

I totally agree. Things like hidden Mickeys or going to Cindy's fountain where at a certain angle, you can see a crown over her head. There are tons of off the path stuff that are free and interesting. Many I would not have known if it was not for the Disney Internet community.

So, did the bird say he was cold?

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I totally agree. Things like hidden Mickeys or going to Cindy's fountain where at a certain angle, you can see a crown over her head. There are tons of off the path stuff that are free and interesting. Many I would not have known if it was not for the Disney Internet community.

So, did the bird say he was cold?

Yes, hah! It was 40 degrees. Here we had this beautiful balcony at GF, with a straight shot at the castle, and it was way too cold to be on the balcony for more than a minute.

 

[sjsjbrook]

I do plan like crazy for my trips to Disney. In fact for my Feb trip I already have planned where I am going to eat and which parks I am at on what day.

However, once I am there, We take our time. We are bound only by our dining reservations.

Our last trip, we went with my DD13, DD 6 and DD 4. Because they were so young we took it easy and did what they wanted to do, working around our dining reservations. It did meant I didn't get to see the Christmas Parade as they wanted to ride small world instead, I had to climb the treehouse 3 times in a row, and spend way too much time on Tom sawyers island.

We had a great time, and I plan to do the same thing this time adding our DS who will be 1.

I have no interest in going comando in the parks. Our goal is to have fun, enjoy the parks.

I am excited about kim possible because it will finally allow me to see the countries, and have my kids have fun. They just never enjoyed epcot.

I am grateful for the information our there for me to find, so I am prepared. I know there are certain rides like TSM, that we are going to have to do right away.(I only wish there was a child swap on that ride).

Funny thing though I have always taken the afternoon to have a break, it made sense in the hot Florida heat.

 

[book_junkie]

Hmm...
quote snipped for brevity....
I have a great many memories from the pre-Internet days of fellow park guests complaining loudly over the smallest things. I can remember someone at Columbia Harbor House screeching at a CM because the ketchup was too sweet...

I'm not sure what the cause of this is, aside from basic selfishness and perhaps people having a false imagining of everything in the MK being absolutely perfect.

We've all seen people arguing at the parks and parents asking their children at the tops of their lungs if they know how much this vacation is costing them. And while I'm not claiming it's been all smooth sailing between my family members and loved ones, it's always amazed me just how miserable some folks can be in a place that so closely mimics paradise.

But, maybe the real answer to that question is that I just couldn't deal with having to wait on so many upset and angry people on a daily basis.

This is where my family thinks I'm nuts, but this is why I carry cast appreciation cards. I did it when I went my first time- then it was thank you notes in crayon, did it when I was in high school (index cards with stickers). Since 2004, I print them out business card size with my email info and I hand them to cast members that rock or need their own Disney magic. I've always worked public service jobs (from food service to where I am now) and I don't know how they do it. I've been told that those cards do count in their reviews, and the business card size makes it easy to stow in the costume (if I'm wrong, PLEASE point it out). Even the Disney CMs need pixie dust.

I found them on the internet, but I've saved them- if anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll be glad to share...

 

[PeterPan09]

This is where my family thinks I'm nuts, but this is why I carry cast appreciation cards. I did it when I went my first time- then it was thank you notes in crayon, did it when I was in high school (index cards with stickers). Since 2004, I print them out business card size with my email info and I hand them to cast members that rock or need their own Disney magic. I've always worked public service jobs (from food service to where I am now) and I don't know how they do it. I've been told that those cards do count in their reviews, and the business card size makes it easy to stow in the costume (if I'm wrong, PLEASE point it out). Even the Disney CMs need pixie dust.

I found them on the internet, but I've saved them- if anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll be glad to share...

The cards are a sweet idea-but if you really want to help that CM-put their name and the place you met on the back and hand it in at guest relations. That way the CM will get recognized by their management staff for their good work. Just one guest taking the time to do that can erase a lot of the stress from the more "entitled" folks.

 

[safetymom]

Kathy, we didn't talk about this when we were having a dinner that was the exact opposite of what you describe...or maybe we did....

in any case, over the years, we have had every level of trip to disney, and they have all been magical ...whether we stayed at the cheapest days inn i could find when the kids were little (since that was all that we could afford back then), to our trips staying at the GF RPC concierge....
they were all wonderful....first of all, because we were all together, which was the main point of it all....and we just had a good time doing whatever at the mouse....

so many great 'quiet' memories....at AK eating ice cream in this secluded place behind where they used to sell ice cream in africa - they sell sandwiches there now) ...we would sit there just talking and laughing and eating our melting ice cream....in the middle of july....in AK....with masses of crowds just a few feet away zipping by where we were sitting...
or sitting behind sleepy hollow, back when it used to sell vegetarian stuff....no one went near the place back then, so there was absolutely not a soul in that area behind it...we would just sit there in the quiet and chill out and sort of breathe in the atmosphere.....i'm not very good at putting it into words, but those are our memories....and so many of them...and that's what WDW is to us....that and the CMs who smile and say hi....and chat with us about where they're from and what brought them to disney....
and the other guests....most of them so very happy to be there...and some of them just relaxing and enjoying life....

not that it's all perfect...nothing ever is....but it is what you make of it....
the fact that we could be together....how perfect is that after all ...

I thought I told you this story. I made it the Mouse isn't going to get our money on this trip. The kids had a great time thinking of ways that the mouse wasn't going to get our money.

The unplanned fun moments we had were totally unplanned.

 

[mainegal]

I thought I told you this story. I made it the Mouse isn't going to get our money on this trip. The kids had a great time thinking of ways that the mouse wasn't going to get our money.

The unplanned fun moments we had were totally unplanned.

I love it!

The Mouse isn't getting our money. Like how the kids enjoyed it that way.

Love it!

 

[Racey]

For me the Internet and especially the dis have been a god send that I cannot do without ...... But for only 1 of the days in a future trip. My Disney wedding.

I didn't know about Disney weddings until I came on this board and without all the posts (and i mean every post) in the wedding forum I would not and definitely could not have a Disney wedding

Ok so Disney wedding website is helpful, but not enough to get a full perspective of every detail of the most important day of my life. I can't afford to come over to Disney for a planning session and look at details such as the view during my dessert party, but brides on here post so much info on every little detail that I'm not worried I'm going to be going into my wedding day blind.

So I too can see the positive side to the information available.... But I can also see the negative too

 

[dmccarty]

It is all about a person's attitude and expectations. Expectations can be increased when people read wonderful WDW experiences on The DIS. Attitude can make these wonderful experiences happen. Or not.

We plan our WDW trips. I don't think we go overboard but if I told people how we had planned or WDW trips they might think we are obsessive. But if you are going to eat at nice TS restaurants at dinner time you need ADRs. Our CAP(Crowd Avoidance Plan) is to get to the parks with morning EMH for RD. Get the one or two must see popular attractions done, meander around doing whatever we decide to do on the spur of the moment, maybe eat lunch in the park, and then go back to the resort.

Our plan is on a spread sheet that has the hours of operation for each park for each day of our stay....

On our last spring break trip we got up one morning to go to AK for RD. The plan said this was the park we were going too for the day. We were staying at AKL so waiting for a bus should not take long. Well we waited. And waited. And waited. Maybe 15 minutes. Lots of other buses came and went but no bus to AK. Eventually a bus to HS showed up. I asked the driver when AK opened that day. He checked his schedule and said that AK did not have early EMH that day but HS did.

Hmmmm... Not what my schedule said. I had checked right before we left home to go to WDW. But maybe the schedule had changed. Okey Dokey we are going to HS!

We get to HS and there t'aint nobody there. Well, there were about a gazillion CM gardeners at the gates cutting flowers. We looked at them. They looked at us. Both wondering why the other group was there....

The park did not open for another hour or two. AK DID open according to the hours in my plan. The bus driver was wrong! This was on the day that the new schedules for the week are given out. The driver had looked at LAST weeks schedule...

Here is were attitude comes into play.

WE could have had a fit about the bus driver being wrong. WE could have complained to the poor CM's cutting flowers. We did not. Just took it in stride and walked back to the bus stop trying to figure out how we were getting out of there.

Because we had good attitude Pixie Dust started to fall. The CM's at the gate gave us the flowers they were cutting. Very pretty. When we got to the bus stop there was a CM with a van checking the building near the bus stops. Looking back I wonder if the CM's at the gate had called in to Transportation and said that there were Lost Guests at HS who needed a ride to AK.

Either through luck or the magic of radio, the CM at the bus stop was a bus manager! Who had a van that would fit all of us. He chauffeured us over to AK and dropped us off up front! On the drive from HS to AK we had a really nice chat about WDW and the bus system. We did not complain one bit about the bus driver with the old schedule. He tried to help. He just had outdated info. We got to AK a bit after RD but I still think we got stuck in the crowed for the opening parade.

Our little side trip cost us nothing and in fact turned out to be a fun experience and memory. It is something we still talk about. And it was well worth the bus trip to a closed HS.

But the memorable experience was all about attitude. If we had had a temper tantrum at the HS gate that would have set up OUR attitude for at least that morning. The CM's likely would not have Pixie Dusted us with flowers. And if they did call the bus manager on the radio, they easily could have left us sitting at the benches for a few minutes stewing. I could have chewed the bus managers fanny for "his" drivers not having up to date schedules and knowing "their" jobs. Could you see this happening by some Guests at WDW? Yes, Yes you can.

We can't always effect the events in our lives but we CAN effect OUR attitude.

We did and we had a great little side trip.

Later that day we went up to Rafki Station. On the way back to the train station there was another CM gardener. I guess it was our day to talk to gardeners at WDW. My parents like to landscape as do we. One of the reasons we love going to WDW is looking at the landscape. My parents stopped and started talking to the CM about the plants. It turns out the CM had helped plant AK before it opened. We had been to AK the year it had opened and then had not been back in 10 years. We could really see the difference in how the landscaping at grown over the years. This CM knew her plants she was not just someone hired to pull weeds. One of the things that she said that stuck with me was that when AK was originally landscaped they planted densely to give the park a certain look. But as the plants aged the plantings where thinned out since the plants had matured and few plants provided the desired look.

We had a 5-10 minute talk with the CM. Hundreds of people walked by us as we chatted. It was a very memorable experience for us. Unscripted. If we had been hurrying and scurrying around the park to get to the next attraction on time we would not have even noticed this CM much less talked to her. I would bet that very few people stop and talk to this CM. They just ignore her. But we were not in a hurry. We had the right attitude to ask questions and had a great little moment.

Some of the best part of WDW is NOT the attractions. It is the little things here and there that can only be experienced with the right attitude. THOSE Guests that have tantrums will never experience the non attraction side of WDW.

They do not have the right attitude.

Later,
Dan

 

[G66]

Additionally, the willingness and ability to bear above-standard prices on goods and services is more and more equated with a sense of entitlement. You deserve more because because you pay more.

I have spoken to two CMs, one at a value and one at a deluxe resort, that told me how much they love their current resort. They both had spent time at the GF and were happy to be out of there, mainly because of the resort climate and demanding guests. I remember being shocked to hear this from a value CM. However, after visiting the GF for the first time last week, I can see how that could be the case. It just does not have that carefree vacation feel. The interesting thing is the other deluxe was not much less expensive, but the relaxed resort climate made all the difference.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I have spoken to two CMs, one at a value and one at a deluxe resort, that told me how much they love their current resort. They both had spent time at the GF and were happy to be out of there, mainly because of the resort climate and demanding guests. I remember being shocked to hear this from a value CM. However, after visiting the GF for the first time last week, I can see how that could be the case. It just does not have that carefree vacation feel. The interesting thing is the other deluxe was not much less expensive, but the relaxed resort climate made all the difference.

The nicest, most amazing cast member I have ever met works at the GF Concierge lounge. It just goes to show, everyone has a different perspective.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Personally, I think the whole internet is a double edged sword. MANY wonderful things have come from it and I can't imagine living without it now, but there are mostly definitely downsides. It's give and take, but in the end you have to take the bad with the good because there's no way to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[trivial]

I thought it was a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion. Despite me being on these boards for about 6 years now, I've sadly only been to Disney once in the last 18 years, which was 3 years ago. I learned on that trip that not everything happens the way you plan, and while my trip was still fantastic, I have a better idea of what to expect and I'm sure I'll be more relaxed next time.

It's somewhat unfortunate that a lot of the surprise and wonder have been taken away by there being so much readily-accessible information out there, but even so, I'm glad that there's a place like this that I can come to and learn how to plan without being a slave-driving commando.

 

[G66]

The nicest, most amazing cast member I have ever met works at the GF Concierge lounge. It just goes to show, everyone has a different perspective.

I'm just relaying what two CMs told me of their experience. I have no doubt that both of these CMs were exemplary employees when at GF. They both were when I met them at their current resorts.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I'm just relaying what two CMs told me of their experience. I have no doubt that both of these CMs were exemplary employees when at GF. They both were when I met them at their current resorts.

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I haven't read all of the replies here yet, but just listened to this part of the show. I celebrated my birthday in WDW last week and agree 100%. Just being at WDW for this time of my life was special. I didn't need anything else. Like Walter said, just having a cast member wish me, by name, birthday wishes was amazing in itself. I always wanted to celebrate a birthday down there and finally having the opportunity was a dream come true.

 

[max'sdad]

As a relative newbie (our first family WDW trip last year), I can offer the perspective that the podcasts - DIS Unplugged, WDW Today, WDW Radio Show - and the Unofficial Guide were invaluable resources in planning our trip. We got that kind of essential info on things like Magical Express, Fastpass, ADRs, that helped our trip go much more smoothly than it would have otherwise.

I think the crew also does a great job of keeping expectations realistic, e.g. you're not going to get a prime spot for the parade unless you're willing to go early and wait.

With all the information we had, we were able to do the planning ahead of time that really enabled us to enjoy our trip. The best thing we did was not put pressure on ourselves to see everything. We took it easy, making sure we took midday breaks to swim and nap, and so were never worn out before the end of the night.

As for Pixie dust, it's not the kind of thing you can plan for. It just happens. Like when taking my son to the bathroom at the Rose and Crown and passing by the Hat Lady, whose song inspires my son to start dancing and then who proceeds to tell the Hat Lady it's my birthday, which then leads to her leading the whole pub in singing "Happy Birthday" to me.

Needless to say, we're going back in mid-August, we're listening to the podcasts in anticipation, and we're ever grateful to the podcast crew and all the wonderful people on the boards for sharing their experiences and information.