Revised Point Charts Posted 1/23/09

[DVC Mike]

I would strongly encourage all prospective buyer to do the research and read the POS and make sure you fully undertand what you are buying prior to making such an investment.

It's also great to read when you can't fall asleep. After 10 minutes of pouring over your POS, you'll find yourself fast asleep!

 

[ABCanada]

In my opinion, DVC should offer the option for owners to purchase the necessary amount of points to compensate for the differences. And they should drop the minimum add-on too. Heck, offer us the right to purchase any number of points we need to close the differences if we pay closing costs.

This seems like a reasonable compromise but given the US title system likely expensive to administer given the points involved.
One question - are the owners who now have too many points for their historical vacation allowed them to sell them back? I doubt this would fly. I also suspect most would not want to. But I am sure it would come up.

Other
We were told, and the contract was clear, that while the total points could not change, they could be reallocated.

Given all the postings on how to handle the high point weekend days I am surprised 1) it took this long to make this adjustment and 2) that people are surprised that the adjustment was made. People have been scheduling their vacations to take advantage of the low points Sun-Thurs and the units have been too empty on the weekends. This does not work when we 'own' the weekend days too. While I have not read the contract for specifics, I am certain we are the ones 'paying' for the lost occupancy and high turn over

 

[blondietink]

We always stay over one weekend or two, just because it costs so much for our family of 4 to get there. So, we fly out on a Friday or Saturday and stay though the next week and maybe fly home on the next Sunday or Monday. With the ways the arilines charge extra for flying back on a weekend, we have even flown back on a Tuesday to save money. So, this should benefit us in the long run. I will save on the one or two weekend stay and save on my airline flight. We don't have our hearts set on any particular resort. All we want is a 1 bedroom, which we have always found available from numerous resorts at 7 months out. So, yes, there are people who actually stay over weekends.

 

[Disney Todd]

My wife and I bought in September after doing two presentations and were expressly told both times that one of the benefits of buying was that the point charts would never change, that my 160 points would go just as far in 2050 as they do today. We discussed how we only needed the 160 points (and not more as they were quite willing to sell us) since we have the ability to travel off-season and don't necessarily need to stay on weekends. With this in mind, I feel a bit misled here. That said, if obtaining reservations in DVC resorts other than your home becomes easier due to the re-alignments, then it is a net positive (and of course the week totals haven't increased).

I think the bigger beef we DVC members should have is that sometimes we are unable to book at our non-home resort while Disney is flat out selling (renting) the rooms out to non-members. Why don't we have greater priority in this?

 

[CarolMN]

In general, I agree with you with the exception of those who added on at BLT before the minimum add-on went up to 100 points. My wife and I bought 125 points, enough to go every other year for a 2-BR MK view during our anniversary week (5 nights * 50 points per night = 250). Now, prior to the resort opening, it's been upped to 53 points per night. That's an additional 15 points we need every other year, and the minimum add-on I can make is for 100 points....

Assuming you would like to add a few more points, call your guide. They have already allowed some BLT purchasers to add a few points to their contracts and they didn't have to add a minimum amount. IIRC, those members haven't closed yet, but I still think DVC is going to be flexible on that. You could argue that they aren't even taking reservations yet for BLT and the point chart is a material part of a purchaser's decision. I think they will work with you.

 

[Doctor P]

Assuming you would like to add a few more points, call your guide. They have already allowed some BLT purchasers to add a few points to their contracts and they didn't have to add a minimum amount. IIRC, those members haven't closed yet, but I still think DVC is going to be flexible on that. You could argue that they aren't even taking reservations yet for BLT and the point chart is a material part of a purchaser's decision. I think they will work with you.

I agree. This is one circumstance in which I truly feel sympathy because of the double whammy of the point changes and a change in the minimum add on at a resort that has not yet opened (have reservations even begun yet? I don't remember).

 

[ebenmax]

Interestingly to me, when we were purchasing our 65 VWL points, I specifically asked if we should buy exactly what we needed or buy a few extra "just in case" point totals ever changed. Our guide's reply was that DVC had only changed/rearranged points one time in its history and that it caused such a stink that he doubted it would ever happen again. He did confirm that DVC had the right to do so, however. We, though, decided to go ahead and buy all 65 instead of the 61 or 62 it would have been just to be safe. Now, we are very happy we did.

I am wondering what a "stink" the rearrangement is causing this time around?
From reading certain threads, it sounds like a major stink. Interesting...

 

[jwcrsf]

Oh please. 101 points versus 105 is what the flap is about? And you feel screwed? Maybe you are right and should have looked over everything a lot better as you entered into a real estate contract. Our guide was very clear too about the total annual points for the resort/room being the same, however they may be reallocated. If something/sometime goes up, an equivalent will go down somewhere.

I find that in general, people are quick to blame others these days for everything. Subprime mortgages - it was the bank's fault, how was I supposed to know if I could afford it? And, now that I can't afford it, someone else should pay for it. Something in my DVC contract is not as I was told - I was lied to.

Amazing.

I am no lawyer by any stretch of the imagination. I do recall in business law class that you have a reasonable expectation that someone working for DVC or the bank to tell you the truth and not mislead people. I do believe people have some responsibility as well.
So tell me how many time have to read the complete software license agreement?

 

[drusba]

I feel everyones pain and undertand your disappointment, but this will overall make the system better. As evidenced by the number of complaints, most people are staying Sun-Thur. The system is based on level demand and occupancy and it's not happening. This means that there are some members out there that are unable to use their points because they can't get rooms when they want. It's funny that there was always a lot of complaining about how high the weekend points were, well now that they have dropped no one is happy.

I guess my question is how is this make the system better. People will still favor Sun to Thurs night because of lower points. Also, look at the BWV points. Let's assume you previously went Sun through Thurs night, Monday through Friday night, Tuesday through Saturday night (in other words any five consecutive night combination that included or did not include weekends), the number of points needed in 2010 for a studio, 1BR or 2BR for that trip in every season is now higher. The same happens for anyone who did six consecutive nights. In other words, those who took the very common 5 or 6 night trip are worse off and none has any new incentive to do weekend nights.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

The deal is... the points to rent any unit over the whole year must remain the same. They can raise the points per night in one season, but then they have to lower them in another. It all evens out.
Your Guide was correct.

However, if you are someone like me who doesn't always book and entire week, we are forced to use more points to book the reservation. If you raise the points for 5 nights, but lower them for 2, you are still paying more points.
I am outraged and do not intend to sit bacck and do nothing. Is anyone out there as upset about this as me?

 

[chalee94]

ITA with that! I just bought into BLT, and before the resort is even opened, I am finding that my points are no longer enough.

as CarolMN said, some BLT buyers have had success in adjusting their BLT contracts. might be worth a call to see if they can help you.

(but if they allow you to make the change, just be sure to include some extra "buffer" points in case the 2011 charts change again...)

 

[chalee94]

However, if you are someone like me who doesn't always book and entire week, we are forced to use more points to book the reservation. If you raise the points for 5 nights, but lower them for 2, you are still paying more points.
I am outraged and do not intend to sit bacck and do nothing. Is anyone out there as upset about this as me?

lots of people on this thread are pretty miffed.

but ultimately, there's not a lot that can be done about it, other than adjust our usage patterns or else sell our contracts if we don't think we are getting adequate value out of it under the new point charts.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

I got the same schpeal, and am highly upset. I placed a call to my sales
rep and left a msg on her voice mail, still waiting for a returned call.

 

[5forDiz]

I guess my question is how is this make the system better. People will still favor Sun to Thurs night because of lower points. Also, look at the BWV points. Let's assume you previously went Sun through Thurs night, Monday through Friday night, Tuesday through Saturday night (in other words any five consecutive night combination that included or did not include weekends), the number of points needed in 2010 for a studio, 1BR or 2BR for that trip in every season is now higher. The same happens for anyone who did six consecutive nights. In other words, those who took the very common 5 or 6 night trip are worse off and none has any new incentive to do weekend nights.

Well said drusba WHERE is the incentive to do the weekend nights??

Now I will admit I haven't spent a whole lot of time going over the new charts but so far I certainly am not seeing it ......

DVC has woven a very tangled web imho for us to get caught up in

 

[NinaRaimonda]

If there are enough upset members, then a class action suit against disney vacation developement should get their attention. Think of the effectof the
negative publicity of current members upset enough to come together in a law suit, and how would potential members react?
You cantsell points on the pretense that the point charts will never go up, and then change them...

 

[DVC Mike]

If there are enough upset members, then a class action suit against disney vacation developement should get their attention. Think of the effectof the
negative publicity of current members upset enough to come together in a law suit, and how would potential members react?
You can sell points on the pretese that the point charts will never go up, and then change them.

DVCMC acted within the laws of the State of Florida, and within the rules of the POS. They did nothing illegal.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

I wonder if any of the poeple making this decision ever read these blogs???

 

[NinaRaimonda]

So it's within the law to mislead their members? They are increasing the cost of membership practically monthly (points), and no those of us who purchased when the cost was reasonable are no being penalized with higher point charts...

 

[rutgers1]

I see both sides here...

On one hand, whenever I would look at the points totals for weekends, my thought was, "Are they crazy?" It just seemed like it was SUCH a high number. Like everyone else, my plan was to stay off property from time to time to avoid a weekend. Until someone mentioned that it was to deter Florida residents from using all of the weekend slots, I couldn't understand it in the least. But even so, I always felt that the weekend points totals were way too high.

However, now that they have changed things a bit and made the weekends a BIT more reasonable, I now have a new problem. My preferred 9 and 10 day stays (with only one "weekend" stay) just got a bit more expensive. Even in a time period where the first 7 days are the same in terms of point recquirements, it is days 8, 9 and 10 that make it more costly, as I am then paying the inflated weekday rates again. I think many people are in my boat.

But, then again, this deal is good for the following:
1) people who like to stay on weekends only
2) people who do shorter trips that involve a weekend, such as a Th, Fr. Sat, Sun trip
3) people who travel during the times (and stay in the accompanying resort and room designation) where the point totals actually went down (There ARE people for whom the 2010 vacation will cost less points than the 2009 vacation.)

The changes are "neutral" for the following:
1) people who are flexible with their time and can schedule trips for times where the point requirements are better
2) people who generally stay a week and saw no change in the point requirements (which I noticed in a few categories at SSR)

I am not at the point where I would make much of a stink over it, as I bought a cushion of points. I was originally going to buy 160 points and spend as much time in a studio as possible. Then I bought 210 and decided to see how much time I could get in a 1BR, but being happy with staying in a studio. If I have to spend one less night, or move to a studio for a few days, I am fine with that. Either way, I still have enough points to do at least a week in Disney every year.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

I wish it were only 3 points, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I've looked at 4 different scenarios on trips that I have booked in the past, and every one of them was higher in points starting in 2010. Disney has always done well because they were honest and trustworthy in business. Now they
have become greedy. They should use someone like Enron as an example,
and make sure they treat their members well, or else they loose them. Lets
face it guys, we are their backbone. We don't go once, we are repeat customers.