RESALE RUMOR direct from DVC

[colleen costello]

SO what do points at Vero Beach actually sell for today? I understand what you say about them not being "officially" on sale -- there may be things like "magical beginnings" -- but how much is the actual price after whatever specials?

Also, what properties are sold out? Are there original points left at Vero and Hilton Head? Are the others -- OKW, BWV and VWL sold out and only available through resale (Disney or non)?

 

[zulaya]

I guess I hope that this doesn't work out to be everything is $84 per point. I can see their motivation, with BCV selling well and not having Sarasota Springs to sell and worrying about having things to sell and all. I guess I like the alternatives with resales, not only to get an OKW contract - which I haven't gotten yet, just waiting on getting the moolah - but to have a much better price.

It's interesting that with the economy still not being the mover and shaker it once was, that prices are on the increase and DVD is looking into the resale market.

Well, I guess time will tell and I'll be watching to see what exactly happens with this.

 

[colleen costello]

Thanks, Doc -- I now see your info on prices. I don't know why I care -- it's not like I have the cash to add-on at this point in my life! It's a shame they don't let you add-on in smaller points at off-site resorts. It would be nice to just add on 10 or 15 points for a night at Vero Beach... just a few points to finish up the week in Orlando... and you'd have the 11-month window for your night or two!

 

[TrudyZ]

ralphd,

your guess makes sense. That would give DVC something to sell on site while the others are being built. At the rate BC is selling, there may be a considerable gap with nothing left to sell on site.

And, I am sure they are aware of the demand for locations via the resale records and their own waitlists for points.

Perhaps it would only be on sold-out locations? What would be the incentive for DVC to buy back the offiste locations now while they still have inventory to sell? --again, pure speculation based on no facts.

Trudy

 

[RobDoc]

Frankly, if they even try to do this, I'll be among the first in considering to file a class action lawsuit.

DVC has been doing this for over 10 years already...and we have all agreed to it already.

They already have the Right of First Refusal and have been selling add-on contracts at sold out resorts for quite awhile now. The only change, should this rumor come to fruition, is that sellers wouldn't have to get an offer from someone else, they could just offer their contract to DVC directly.

Since we all have the right, by contract, to sell our ownership- subject to the right-of-refusal, nothing would change from the current system except that DVC would make the offer directly- which we could accept or reject, just like any other offer. If you reject the DVC offer you would still be free to find your own buyer and then present the offer to DVC for approval (or purchase).

I don't see any downside to members wishing to sell their ownership. I do see a downside to resale purchase prices. They would likely be higher- but they are already artificially higher because of DVC's ROFR.

Stay tuned!

 

[DisneyKidds]

Doc - you said it all. Disney could easily do this without violating DVC contracts or real estate laws. All they do is exercise ROFR on every resale. Eventually Disney would establish a process where owners could go directly to DVC to sell their membership. This wouldn't take away members rights to sell to a private party, but the hassle and expense of doing so just wouldn't be worth it. Like it or not, Disney would control all membership points and sell them at the current price. This would represent a win-win for DVC and current owners who need to sell. The only losers would be people who might otherwise have gotten a good resale before DVC instituted the new policy. Of course the real estate agents who currently handle DVC resales would be big losers as well.

A few interesting questions though. Would the add-on market be enough to clear inventory DVC would accumulate in a resort like OKW? If not, would enough people be interested in buying OKW at $84 when they could get BCV for the same amount, or would they have to offer a MB type discount to move the OKW inventory?

It will be interesting to see if this happens, and how it shakes out if it does.

 

[RobDoc]

Would the add-on market be enough to clear inventory DVC would accumulate in a resort like OKW?

The unique thing to me about such a program is that DVC would be in full control all the time. They can set their buy-back price where they want for each resort and create a Magical Beginnigs level to suit the needs to sell each one.

Thus, if they have few requests to purchase OKW, they could set their offer at $62 and those sellers who won't accept that may sell on the open market. At the same time, their buy-back for VWL could be $68- with sellers having the same option to decline the DVC offer and sell on the open market.

If, during this process, DVC acquires an excess of points at any resort, they can always extend a greater MB offer to assist, as needed.

There are still margins DVC would have to watch to assure profitability- for both their offer price and any MB incentive included. They would always have full control of the resale program and could merely change their offered price to encourage/discourage participation.

 

[vernon]

DVC has been doing this for over 10 years already...and we have all agreed to it already.

They already have the Right of First Refusal and have been selling add-on contracts at sold out resorts for quite awhile now. The only change, should this rumor come to fruition, is that sellers wouldn't have to get an offer from someone else, they could just offer their contract to DVC directly.

Doc I think either you or I have misunderstood the point being made on this issue , there is a massive difference between Disney having the right to first refusal, and Disney being the only place that you are allowed to resell points. With one, Disney has to MATCH the price that a third party is prepared to pay ( which is always likely to be a % of the current sales price), with the other Disney just says what it will pay and that doesn't have to have any relationship with the market/sale price. One is a free market price that Disney has the option to match ( which IMHO is a fair policy and one I'm suprised Disney doesn't make more use of) the other is restrictive practice and seriously impairs owners getting a fair price for their investment. IMHO that would be a serious breach of trust and contract, I feel certain that should anyone ( and I'd be alongside DVCDave on this) file a class action on this, Disney would lose the case and lose BIG.

IMHO it's a no brainer and I can't believe that Disney would even contemplate trying to restrict trade in such a fashion, I think it much more likely that the CM that reported this "plan" didn't have a full understanding of what is being contemplated.

 

[MarkRG]

And on the subject of Disney devaluing(sp?) the points, we went to the member update yesterday at Boardwalk and currently, they are offering a 'magical beginnings' discount of $15 a point to buy in at Vero Beach right now, as an incentive to finally sell it out. Beach Club has a $5 a point one going too. No discussion on the DI property.

 

[Dean]

Disney will not and cannot say you must sell through them. What they can do is set it up where the only reasonable place to sell is through them. As noted, the only losers are the resale brokers and the resale buyers. I suspect DVC would have no proplem disposing of OKW resale points. They have a signficant waiting list at present.

 

[Richyams]

we went to the member update yesterday at Boardwalk and currently, they are offering a 'magical beginnings' discount of $15 a point to buy in there right now,

This is a typo or error.

They are NOT offering a $15 MB for BWV points.

The only place they are offering this is VB, VB has the highest MB because no one wants to buy there. Also to Disney's and VB's detriment is the internet, DVC sals staff lies about home resort not mattering have been falling on deaf ears. More and more people realize the lie and are not buying VB points.

Its such a shame that the only way yhey can sell that resort is through fraud and using lies.

 

[MarkRG]

Yes, you caught me, I forgot to put VB in there, oops!!! I'll go fix it now.

 

[sgtpet]

Well put Richams. The 11 month window is important.

As far as this topic, I could care less if Disney buys them back or not. By having the chance to refuse a resale already shows they have manipulated the resale market. I have empathy for those brokers that will lose out on the DVC market share if Disney pushes this.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I'm trying to figure out why DVC would want to buy up all the resales then turn around and resell them,unless they are trying to secure some inventory to keep their sales staff busy until the next resort is ready for selling. DVD's business plan called for selling X number of points at Y dollars.They achieved their goal when resort sold out. If word gets out that they are invoking "first refusal" at any price,then the sellers price will soar. If DVC buys for $75.00, how can it justify selling for $84.00. After all the commissions & legal fees are paid,what could they possibly make, a buck or two per pt. Doesn't seem very profitable.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Disney doesn't have to start a full scale program. Just as they pick and choose with Magical Beginnings they can pick and choose which resorts they are buying back.

Given the current resale price having a buy back offer for BWV owners is a no-brainer for Disney. There are several advantages....the models are in the building already...along with the sales offices. They can piggyback on the vigorous demand for BCV. They can start with a sufficient inventory to work from....sell it out by the time SSRV comes on line. In fact I think it would be important that they would be finished with selling older DVCs when SSRV starts to sell.

 

[KNWVIKING]

If DVC decides it wants all the BWV resale points,then those sellers are going to demand a high price. If I owned BWV and could sell it back for $75.00, I'd sell then buy an OKW resale.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by vernon
... there is a massive difference between Disney having the right to first refusal, and Disney being the only place that you are allowed to resell points.

I haven't seen any comment in this thread indicating that Disney would be the only place you are allowed to resell points. My comments are directed towards the possibility that Disney could make an open offer to buy back points from a resort at X price- with or without a commission. If the seller accepts that offer, their contract is sold without further hassle. If the seller feels the DVC offer isn't satisfactory, they can find a buyer and submit that offer to Disney for ROFR - just as they can right now. There would be no limitation of any free market activity- the ONLY difference would Disney making an offer to buy. This would eliminate resale buyers from the process- but only for those sellers accepting the DVC offer. If the seller has a buyer willing to offer more than the DVC offer, the system now in place would continue.

Perhaps we all need to remember that this entire thread is based on a rumor without any substantiation. All of the comments made here, or at least mine, are pure speculation based on the concept presented by the rumor.

 

[DVCDAVE]

I haven't seen any comment in this thread indicating that Disney would be the only place you are allowed to resell points.

Excuse me, but that is exactly the way I interpetted the original post. If I am wrong, I apologize. Here is what the thread states;

Quote;
"The answer was that DVC was working on a buy back program that would have ALL resales only available from DVC! "

Further DOC, in response to your reponse to my prior post. I fully understand DVC's right of first refusal. I knew that when I bought, and I can live with that. BUT when I read the original post of this thread, I understood it to mean that Disney would become the sole buyer and reseller in the secondary market. THAT, I could not live with, nor tollerate.

 

[DVCajun]

THAT, I could not live with, nor tollerate.

I don't think you'd have a choice. As long as Disney doesn't violate the contract we all signed there wouldn't be a basis for a "class action lawsuit." Personally, as a potential buyer of a resale within the next year or so, I'd just as soon Disney didn't put out a blanket buy back offer so they can manage all of the resales. I want to be able to find a desperate buyer. But if they do that, they're only doing what they have the right to do in the first place. We all know that any buy back contracts are run through Disney first for their right of first refusal. If they decide to buy back everything, that's their perogative. They won't-- naturally there will be a price window where it isn't feasible for Disney to put the time and effort into buying back reselling (it was mentioned in another thread that buying a resale at $7 less than Disney's rate turns out to be about the same price when all is said and done).

Interesting rumor....

Funny comment about VB too. Maybe it would apply to all resorts BUT VB.

 

[DVCDAVE]

Again, I ask that you don't quote me out of context.

I already stated that I have no problem with the current system od DVC's right of first refusal.

But, WE did NOT sign any agreement with DVC to become the sole source of all resale purchases or sales PERIOD, (defacto artifically pegging prices where ever there profit interests are served best).

So if you quote me, please quote me in the context the quote was intended.