Resale restrictions as resort deeds expire?!?

[Superman1011]

So recently went through the Riviera tour to get a view of the rooms (very nice and great layout) and to get some genera questions answered (completely useless as the Disney CM with a 20 year Pin was still just a salesman and couldn’t answer any of my questions).

He did bring up a point as another “sales pitch” in that owners of resale contracts will
Not be able to stay in the original resorts after they expire. Ie we lose access to BC or BE or OKW after 2042.... when asked for supporting documentation he Said there is none but that’s what Disney means.

Can anyone please clarify or confirm/disprove this?!?!?

 

[anomamatt]

Everyone (resale and direct) will lose access to the 2042 resorts when their lease expires in 2042. (Unless DVC tries another extension, but there is about zero chance of that happening given how OKW extension went.)

 

[Superman1011]

Sorry I still don’t understand. So I’m in a Copper Creek resale expiring in 2068. As the 2042 resorts turn into next deeds in 2043 I will lose access to them? Assuming the same wouldn’t be the same for someone buying Riviera direct?

 

[brianilten]

Everyone (resale and direct) will lose access to the 2042 resorts when their lease expires in 2042. (Unless DVC tries another extension, but there is about zero chance of that happening given how OKW extension went.)

I totally disagree. I think there is a good chance they will try extensions. The original 15yr extension didn't go over well because it was poorly marketed, hard to understand, and came when some of us still had 35 years left on our contracts. My bet is as we get to the end of the contracts, they will extend because members will WANT to extend.

I am just glad we did when it was $15/point to extend. Its going to cost a little bit more come around 2040

 

[anomamatt]

Sorry I still don’t understand. So I’m in a Copper Creek resale expiring in 2068. As the 2042 resorts turn into next deeds in 2043 I will lose access to them? Assuming the same wouldn’t be the same for someone buying Riviera direct?

Unless DVC extends the resorts (which we have no idea about), in 2042 (after January 31, 2042 (the date the leases expire and DVC "loses" the properties to Disney) the "2042 resorts" will no longer be DVC resorts. Their ownership will revert to Disney. Disney can do whatever it wants with them. It might happen and extensions occur, but I would not expect to have access to any of the 2042 resorts post-2042, regardless of where you own points or how you got them.

And this won't matter whether you buy resale or buy Riviera direct. Essentially, after Jan 31, 2042, the 2042 properties vanish from DVC.

 

[anomamatt]

I totally disagree. I think there is a good chance they will try extensions. The original 15yr extension didn't go over well because it was poorly marketed, hard to understand, and came when some of us still had 35 years left on our contracts. My bet is as we get to the end of the contracts, they will extend because members will WANT to extend.

Perhaps it will be economy dependent, but there are very few reasons for Disney to extend the leases (versus resell them as new resorts). They might even bulldoze them and build new towers... 2042 is still a long way away, so we won't know for a long time. But one of the reasons I don't see them extending the 2042 resort is the point charts. The average cost for a room (averaged across all rooms) has increased steadily over time. Compare BWV chart to RIV...

 

[Superman1011]

Unless DVC extends the resorts (which we have no idea about), in 2042 (after January 31, 2042 (the date the leases expire and DVC "loses" the properties to Disney) the "2042 resorts" will no longer be DVC resorts. Their ownership will revert to Disney. Disney can do whatever it wants with them. It might happen and extensions occur, but I would not expect to have access to any of the 2042 resorts post-2042, regardless of where you own points or how you got them.

And yes, this won't matter whether you buy resale or buy Riviera direct. Essentially, after Jan 31, 2042, the 2042 properties vanish from DVC.

Thank you! I was actually interested in RIV but then he started twisting the truth. What you say makes way more sense.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

I think it is likely though, if they decide to resell the resorts after they expire, they would be considered "new resorts" and therefore resale points would not have access to them. The original 14 will become the original 9.5 (with OKW sort of in limbo). Resale points from the Original 9.5 will continue to have access to those 9-10 resorts. Direct points will have access to all resorts including the "new Beach Club" and "the New Boardwalk" or whatever they call them.

 

[gscott8075]

I believe DVC will resell them under DVC2. So they won’t be part of the legacy DVC anymore.

 

[sethschroeder]

very few reasons for Disney to extend the leases (versus resell them as new resorts).

It's the same thing? It just gives them a headstart with a captive audience.

Extend now for $275/point or it will be $285/point when it expires in 2/3/5 years from now.

They don't have to do the short extension it could be a new 50 year lease.

Heck they could even build a year off in to the extension where you get 51 years and year 1 you get the 11 month window at all resorts while they redo it.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

It's the same thing? It just gives them a headstart with a captive audience.

Extend now for $275/point or it will be $285/point when it expires in 2/3/5 years from now.

They don't have to do the short extension it could be a new 50 year lease.

Heck they could even build a year off in to the extension where you get 51 years and year 1 you get the 11 month window at all resorts while they redo it.

I'm not a lawyer, but by reissuing the resorts, it allows for point restructuring as others have mentioned, and it also slowly shuts out the resale points from non-home resort booking. I think they would probably like resale points eventually to be only good for home resort booking.

Boardwalk's point charts, for example, should probably be more expensive when you compare to other resorts in terms of # of points per room considering the popularity and location of the resort. If they extend, they can't make that change. But if they resell, they can increase all the point costs by 50% if they wanted to.

Also, I've heard that the OKW contract extension was a bit of a disaster. What happens if 25% of the people extend and the others do not? Gets messy. DVC might as well just take over the whole resort, then reissue the contracts. Then they can do whatever they want.

 

[sethschroeder]

I'm not a lawyer, but by reissuing the resorts, it allows for point restructuring as others have mentioned, and it also slowly shuts out the resale points from non-home resort booking. I think they would probably like resale points eventually to be only good for home resort booking.

They can simply write it up as a new lease though. There is no requirement like I said to make it like OKW was setup with a true extension. This simply could be "early bird" pricing or "past owner" discounting. I can't see them starting over from scratch and not giving the current owners of the resort first crack at it. So why wait until the hotel expires at which point you are left with millions of unallocated points that you need to sell FAST.

I mean they already sold RIV roughly 9 months before it launched? It also was offered to current DVC members first right? This is no different except it will be to the current owners of the resort, then DVC in general (maybe direct only to start even), then a public rollout.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

They can simply write it up as a new lease though. There is no requirement like I said to make it like OKW was setup with a true extension. This simply could be "early bird" pricing or "past owner" discounting. I can't see them starting over from scratch and not giving the current owners of the resort first crack at it. So why wait until the hotel expires at which point you are left with millions of unallocated points that you need to sell FAST.

I mean they already sold RIV roughly 9 months before it launched? It also was offered to current DVC members first right? This is no different except it will be to the current owners of the resort, then DVC in general (maybe direct only to start even), then a public rollout.

Sure, they can do that, assuming there are no legal barriers (again I have no idea really). I don't really consider that to be an extension though, so maybe we're just arguing semantics.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Sure, they can do that, assuming there are no legal barriers (again I have no idea really). I don't really consider that to be an extension though, so maybe we're just arguing semantics.

Legally, that would not be an extension.

 

[zavandor]

In 2042 BCV, BWV and the other original resorts will cease to exist as we know them (unless they extend, highly unlikely for BWV and BCV, maybe for BLT). The buildings will go back to Disney. They may keep them as cash resorts, tear them down and rebuild or refurbish them and open new DVC resorts in the same location.
So at that point BWV2 or whatever they'll call it, will join the club. If the rules won't change again, everyone who currently has direct points or resale points bought before this year restrictions will be able to book it, of course with a new more costly point chart. Resale purchasers who buy after the new restrictions will not be able to book BWV because it won't exist anymore and won't be able to book BWV2 because it's a new resort and they're barred from booking new resorts.

So it's true that some resale buyers will lose access to BWV, but this is not true for everyone.

However, two things may happen:
1) There is a very strong case that what the way Riviera joined the club is illegal. There are a couple of long threads about this so I won't go into the details. At the moment this affects a very small minority of the membership, so there isn't enough traction for a lawsuit. Only about 1% of deeds change are sold resale every year, so currently, maybe 0,4% of owners max are affected by this. This may change in the future and a lawsuit might be done. If won, it's possible that all new resorts, to join the club require the same access for all resale purchasers.
DVC might decide also to lift the restrictions if they find they hurt sales more than benefit them.
If any of this happens, then everyone will have access to the new resorts

2) DVD might decide to overcome the (risk of a) lawsuit creating a DVC2 with new rules. In this case, no one will have access to BWV2, BCV2 or for what we know even Reflections. They might ceate an exchange program between DVC and DVC2, but that would give limited access. However, this is the nuclear option, a remote possibility, not something a guide might say as "this is what Disney means".

 

[Brett Wyman]

All the more reason to buy where you want to stay when you buy resale. It may be your only option as time goes by.

 

[Dean]

Everyone (resale and direct) will lose access to the 2042 resorts when their lease expires in 2042. (Unless DVC tries another extension, but there is about zero chance of that happening given how OKW extension went.)

I think there is zero chance they will do what they tried at OKW but they may look for another alternative at some point.

I totally disagree. I think there is a good chance they will try extensions. The original 15yr extension didn't go over well because it was poorly marketed, hard to understand, and came when some of us still had 35 years left on our contracts. My bet is as we get to the end of the contracts, they will extend because members will WANT to extend.

I am just glad we did when it was $15/point to extend. Its going to cost a little bit more come around 2040

The real value at the time was in the range of $7-8 pp. One could have bought resale for that price around that time for 2057 expiration for easily $7 pp.

 

[Novakm]

So recently went through the Riviera tour to get a view of the rooms (very nice and great layout) and to get some genera questions answered (completely useless as the Disney CM with a 20 year Pin was still just a salesman and couldn’t answer any of my questions).

He did bring up a point as another “sales pitch” in that owners of resale contracts will
Not be able to stay in the original resorts after they expire. Ie we lose access to BC or BE or OKW after 2042.... when asked for supporting documentation he Said there is none but that’s what Disney means.

Can anyone please clarify or confirm/disprove this?!?!?

I’m pretty sure this is why they changed the resale restrictions. So that guides can say things that don’t make sense, but sound like they did something important.

Now they can blame every perceived DVC problem on resale, and say they fixed it with RR.

 

[kniquy]

Can anyone please clarify or confirm/disprove this?!?!?

The DVC lease on the property will expire when the deeds to those 2042 resorts expire. So this means DVC can create a new lease on the property, refurbish resorts and sell them as new DVC resorts - part of the DVC 2.0 with Riviera and Reflections. So anyone with a resale contract purchased before Jan 2019 will not be able to access these "new" resorts. The only one which will be a little fuzzy will be OKW because you will have many contracts expiring in 2042 and then some in 2057. I guess this will mean the actual availability of rooms will match the number of points/owners remaining, so the whole resort might not be available-- that will certainly be interesting.

There will not be extensions offered on these 2042 properties. It was tried and failed. They will rebuild and sell as new resorts with a high price tag and higher points charts.

 

[jerseyduke]

Sorry I still don’t understand. So I’m in a Copper Creek resale expiring in 2068. As the 2042 resorts turn into next deeds in 2043 I will lose access to them? Assuming the same wouldn’t be the same for someone buying Riviera direct?

Everyone will loose access to the 2042 resorts. What you bought and how you bought it does not matter - Resale or Direct. The DVD lease is up. Disney can knock them down if they desire. (Do not see that happening), If nothing changes, they will not be part of the 'system' Come 2043, OKW, BWV, BCV, VBR no longer exist. My guess is some will become cash rooms (at least temporarily) while others are refurbed or rebuilt, then re sold. At 250$ a point!

There would have to be a difference between an extension and a new contract. A DVC contract is a fractional ownership of a residential unit. And that is part of the problem. With OKW, some ownerships have been extended to 2057, others not. So now, come 2042, no one OKW building reverts totally back to Disney, they own part of every one, and no one in totality.
I think this is a logistical nightmare. That is why any other extensions seem so unlikely.

You might be able to switch into OKW after 2042, since SOME of it is in the system until 2057.

That being said, 2042 does pose another unique situation. There are a lot of rooms coming out of inventory, which means a lot of guaranteed guests will be going away. Sure some will pay cash. But on property numbers will probably dip.

If it is legally possible, I can see them offering new, short contracts at one or 2 of the 2042s to all members of 2042s. Maybe 10 years. trying to get enough2042 members to take say a boardwalk extension, while they change the other buildings to resell them.

Not sure, but it will be interesting