Resale Resorts Riv eligibility

[Bing Showei]

So as you can see - there definitely has been some increase since WDW closed in March in terms of # of contracts sold, but it is still less than half of what they were doing pre-pandemic.

Hmmm... I wonder if there is any correlation to park foot traffic.

 

[Liquidice]

Hmmm... I wonder if there is any correlation to park foot traffic.

Could be, when I was there in September I also noticed that not all of the DVC sales booths were open, a lot of them were empty and this was before the layoffs. With the layoffs we know at least some DVC people were impacted, meaning you may have even less people in the booths.

You can also tell there is a strategy shift with DVC doing Open Houses at many of the resorts, even though when I went to the one at BLT, they tried to push us towards Riviera.

 

[Sandisw]

RVA had 412 contracts sold in September 2020 with 66,013 points.

In comparison:
January 2020 - 1,160 contracts with 181,289 points,
February 2020 - 920, 139,205
March 2020 - 950, 153,416
April 2020 - 203, 30,660 (Start of the pandemic impacting things)
May 2020 - 106, 15,870
June 2020 - 57, 7,910
July 2020 - 56, 9,255 (WDW Reopening)
August 2020 - 273, 44,970

So as you can see - there definitely has been some increase since WDW closed in March in terms of # of contracts sold, but it is still less than half of what they were doing pre-pandemic.

Source: https://www.disboards.com/threads/direct-dvc-sales-statistics.3806398/

For 2019, the only month that is as low as September 2020 for RVA is April 2019 the first month that RVA sales appeared with 407 contracts and 59,246 points, but RVA was only for sale for about half of that month (from 4/12/2019 - 4/30/2019).

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Riviera, just trying to show data on sales #'s.

It still goes to show, though, that the sales, prior to COViD were strong enough to not warrant a reversal in restrictions.

The company as a whole is dealing with lots of changes and expectations for many divisions are now different.

Given the low occupancy at the parks...which makes a good deal of influence on sales...there is no way to expect sales to be right back at it.

Now, if sales remain sluggish for another 6 months, then maybe we will see an adjustment. But, it’s just A guess!

 

[Liquidice]

It still goes to show, though, that the sales, prior to COViD were strong enough to not warrant a reversal in restrictions.

The company as a whole is dealing with lots of changes and expectations for many divisions are now different.

Given the low occupancy at the parks...which makes a good deal of influence on sales...there is no way to expect sales to be right back at it.

Now, if sales remain sluggish for another 6 months, then maybe we will see an adjustment. But, it’s just A guess!

Yeah I don't think there were any plans to reverse the resale restrictions BEFORE the pandemic. I do think that the possibility is much greater now with the pandemic, layoffs, lower crowds, slower economy, etc etc.

Especially if Disney has no immediate plans to add other resorts now with construction slowed on many projects - its feasible they simply move their plans for "DVC 2.0" to a future resort. Who knows though, time will tell!

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah I don't think there were any plans to reverse the resale restrictions BEFORE the pandemic. I do think that the possibility is much greater now with the pandemic, layoffs, lower crowds, slower economy, etc etc.

Especially if Disney has no immediate plans to add other resorts now with construction slowed on many projects - its feasible they simply move their plans for "DVC 2.0" to a future resort. Who knows though, time will tell!

Like I’ve shared, having a child in a different division of the company, things are so different now than before and they know they will be adjusting to weather the storms.

I do think since they have no plans for another WDW resort now, that gives them more time to sell RIV, and ride the storm.

But as you said, we shall all see. What I am wondering if they will notify RIV owners directly if any change was to be made.

 

[tjkraz]

Yeah I don't think there were any plans to reverse the resale restrictions BEFORE the pandemic. I do think that the possibility is much greater now with the pandemic, layoffs, lower crowds, slower economy, etc etc.

As always, that line of thinking presumes that the restrictions are hurting sales more than they are helping. None of us is any position to make that determination. Other timeshares have had such restrictions for many years and feel it does more help than harm. Until DVC reverses, there's no reason to think they are dissatisfied with the results.

 

[Liquidice]

As always, that line of thinking presumes that the restrictions are hurting sales more than they are helping. None of us is any position to make that determination. Other timeshares have had such restrictions for many years and feel it does more help than harm. Until DVC reverses, there's no reason to think they are dissatisfied with the results.

Very true, I suppose the survey we've heard is being sent out asking about re-sale restrictions is one thing that would tell them that. Interestingly, I don't think I got a survey when I bought direct in Nov 2019.

I guess we'll see what happens - as I've said before for me personally, I bought knowing fully of the resale restrictions (I don't own RVA but I have contracts purchased after January 2019) and not being able to stay at Riviera and as such, the restrictions don't bother me much at all - at the same time, I would certainly be happy if they were lifted!

In the meantime, I'm just having fun talking about the possibility if it were to happen, might happen, etc.

 

[Sandisw]

Very true, I suppose the survey we've heard is being sent out asking about re-sale restrictions is one thing that would tell them that. Interestingly, I don't think I got a survey when I bought direct in Nov 2019.

I guess we'll see what happens - as I've said before for me personally, I bought knowing fully of the resale restrictions (I don't own RVA but I have contracts purchased after January 2019) and not being able to stay at Riviera and as such, the restrictions don't bother me much at all - at the same time, I would certainly be happy if they were lifted!

In the meantime, I'm just having fun talking about the possibility if it were to happen, might happen, etc.

I bought in October of 2019 and did get a survey. And i do remember some questions related to restrictions and indicating it had no bearing on my decision to buy and it wasn’t an issue.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Maybe this is a dumb question. Isn’t the only reason that resale restrictions an issue is speed of selling out the resort? I mean once it is all sold out DVC couldn’t care less about the value of resale. They are collecting their dues and have ROFR in any case.

 

[Spark65]

Maybe this is a dumb question. Isn’t the only reason that resale restrictions an issue is speed of selling out the resort? I mean once it is all sold out DVC couldn’t care less about the value of resale. They are collecting their dues and have ROFR in any case.

Resale restrictions are not an issue for Disney resale issues are only for those looking to buy with the sole idea of selling later at a profit. Buying with resale restrictions would hurt their future bottom line at least that's what they think we won't know until the future comes.
That future will tell if resale restrictions hurt Disney as they will change the requirement if so or if future sales for those who are selling off their RIV DVC have to sell for less than what they paid.

 

[Liquidice]

Maybe this is a dumb question. Isn’t the only reason that resale restrictions an issue is speed of selling out the resort? I mean once it is all sold out DVC couldn’t care less about the value of resale. They are collecting their dues and have ROFR in any case.

This is somewhat true - except Disney can still sell points direct even at sold out resorts, and could buy points back and sell them direct again to make a profit. Have resale restrictions increases the chances that you still buy direct even if the resale price is better. A maybe more sinister reason could also be that by doing this you keep the resale price of RVA deflated, making it cheaper to buy contracts back and increasing profits even more.

Additionally, if you assume Disney has another new resort coming after Riviera - it would be easier to sell the new resort with RVA resale restrictions and over the very long term as old resorts age out (like the 2042 ones) - the resale market would shrink and make it better for Direct Purchases as well.

On the flip side, you are somewhat limiting one of the biggest selling points of DVC that makes it more valuable than a traditional Time Share though - and that is the value of your contract. Resale restrictions lowers the value of the contract, and while ROFR probably keeps the prices high enough that it wouldn't be like other Time Shares, right now it decreases the value. Eventually maybe in the long term, since it would be the norm for all resale contracts it won't be as big of a deal.

I do wonder how it impacts the 7 month mark booking window over the long term though - if all resale contracts are forced to stay at their home resort, does that do more to lock up room inventory at the 11 month mark and mean there is less availability at the 7 month mark in the long term? That all depends on how many people purchase direct vs. resale I guess.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'd just have to believe there are lots and lots of discussions and analyzing of the results of the restrictions going on. Disney has been hurting for months and so far there's no end in sight to that. As I've said before I won't be surprised if they do reverse course however I won't be holding my breath either.

As always, that line of thinking presumes that the restrictions are hurting sales more than they are helping. None of us is any position to make that determination. Other timeshares have had such restrictions for many years and feel it does more help than harm. Until DVC reverses, there's no reason to think they are dissatisfied with the results.

From my POV there's one major differences between DVC and other timeshares that they are unlikely to change. Almost 100% location concentration. And the ones that are not at WDW (or DL) are the ones they've had slow sales at. I do think they have been getting sucked into the idea that they should operate the same as others however that concentration to Disney parks, which honestly is the only reason DVC has performed well, is why it won't work quite the same for them IMO. There's at least one thing I can think of that could be a game changer but they're too focused on shaking the stick instead.

Maybe this is a dumb question. Isn’t the only reason that resale restrictions an issue is speed of selling out the resort? I mean once it is all sold out DVC couldn’t care less about the value of resale. They are collecting their dues and have ROFR in any case.

The classic thought is that any resale purchase is a lost direct sale. I kind of disagree with that as I do think there are people who wouldn't buy at all if direct were the only option but that's the drive behind all the resale restrictions that Disney has done. They want to make resale less appealing and promote the visual that the benefits offered by buying direct are what every purchaser wants/needs.

 

[TinkB278]

They want to make resale less appealing and promote the visual that the benefits offered by buying direct are what every purchaser wants/needs.

What I can’t wrap my head around is why Disney had to go to the extreme of the resale restrictions to try to make direct appear to be the better option. Why don’t they just significantly increase other perks for direct members? This would save them from all the potential direct buyers they’ve lost to resale because of the restrictions.

 

[heynowirv]

Or does it mean resale current resale owners that bought after Jan 2019 can now stay at Riv as well?
yes ,that is what it appears to mean. Riv is now in the same pot as the other existing resorts.

 

[Drewferin]

Maybe they could start by offering Gold APs and upgrades to platnium APs, lol... Eye roll. Just frustrated they haven't done this yet post covid closure.

 

[Liquidice]

What I can’t wrap my head around is why Disney had to go to the extreme of the resale restrictions to try to make direct appear to be the better option. Why don’t they just significantly increase other perks for direct members? This would save them from all the potential direct buyers they’ve lost to resale because of the restrictions.

The resale restrictions apply to every single point purchased. The perks only apply to the first 100 or 125 or whatever the Direct point minimum is for a blue card.

I bought 100 points direct and then have bought every other point via resale - although I've done this following resale restrictions, so I've just accepted that Riviera doesn't exist for most of my points

I'm sure many others were doing something similar before RVA got built, it will be interesting to see if that behavior changes as a result of RVA's resale restrictions.

But thats the reason for the resale restrictions - Disney can now encourage you to buy every single point direct so you can use them at "all DVC resorts including future ones".

 

[Sandisw]

What I can’t wrap my head around is why Disney had to go to the extreme of the resale restrictions to try to make direct appear to be the better option. Why don’t they just significantly increase other perks for direct members? This would save them from all the potential direct buyers they’ve lost to resale because of the restrictions.

Perks offered can not come from dues. It has to come from other areas.

The AP discount is negotiated with WDPR. MM events come from a marketing budget,

So, any perks that involve other divisions can’t just be given...they have to work with them to agree.

Resale restrictions for those buying resale apply to all and it seems like they want to adjust the product. The language of the RIV POS is much more forceful in terms of not buying for resale value over what I Remember from my VGF and BLT POS document.

 

[ScubaCat]

Could be, when I was there in September I also noticed that not all of the DVC sales booths were open, a lot of them were empty and this was before the layoffs. With the layoffs we know at least some DVC people were impacted, meaning you may have even less people in the booths.

They also sell a LOT on cruises, too.

The sales numbers seem to correlate with current capacity to reach guests and promote in person. If you look at the pre-Covid months, they're in line with typical sales.

There's just not any evidence (that I can see, at least) that the restriction is depressing sales. Everything I've heard saying they're an issue seems to be based on wishful thinking.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I would be extremely surprised if DVD walked back the restriction. As others have mentioned, this is not a short term money grab but a complete change to the system. I assume when they made this change they were not only looking at the current resorts &near-term future resorts like Reflections but also the 2042 resorts and all subsequent reselling of current resorts when they expire.

I think the only way this gets walked back is if DVD management changes and the new management walks it back. But while walking it back might help short term sales of RIV, I think very long-term it will help widen the spread between resale and direct cost. I have to think current DVD management wishes this policy to have been implemented a decade ago, before AKV or BLT was sold. I would think if they would have done this years ago that spread would already be wider.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

They also sell a LOT on cruises, too.

The sales numbers seem to correlate with current capacity to reach guests and promote in person. If you look at the pre-Covid months, they're in line with typical sales.

There's just not any evidence (that I can see, at least) that the restriction is depressing sales. Everything I've heard saying they're an issue seems to be based on wishful thinking.

It is definitely depressing sales because we would have purchased from 300-400 points without the restrictions. So RIV sales are depressed by a minimum of 300-400 points. Lol. As soon as they remove the restrictions, we will buy. If there is one thing I have learned, the older I get, I realize I am not unique. I am sure there are thousands of mes out there who would have added on at RIV but didn’t because of the restrictions. The problem with the restrictions is that if some calamity happens, like one of us dies and the remaining spouse wants to sell, there is a big loss. That’s not the case with resale.

Adding on to post. I do think they will lift the restrictions. There was a time when I did not think they would. I think they may try it again with a later resort. But at this point I think they will stick riviera into the trading system with the others. I think that there will be a good ten years before Disney gets back into full swing and it is too weird having riviera as a kind of stand alone resort at wdw. DL is a different animal.