RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[ziravan]

What happens when Apple and Universal irritate you? We all have our proverbial lines in the sand. But if we draw too many, we run out of beach.

Maybe this move will blow-up on Disney. Perhaps sales will suffer. And if that happens, Disney will adapt and change. Maybe we will see this decision reversed in a few years. And if that happens, everyone who hated the idea can laugh and laugh, and whip out their "I told you so"s. I can voice my opinions about success or failure...but at the end of the day, I really don't care about the outcome.

Probably the two most oft-repeated lines in the 15 years (gasp) I've been reading this forum are "buy where you want to stay" and "don't buy DVC for the perks!" Limiting perks--to a group who never had them in the first place--seems like an odd place to make a philosophical stand.

It's not the perks.

I bought resale post 2011. I carefully evaluated and determined that the things blocked from me as a resale buyer were poor uses of points.

If I were considering buying resale for the first time today, this would be a deal breaker.

Not because of the perks. I discussed on the first page of this long long thread how to end run this via a minimum buy in.

No. The issue is the concept of tiered ownership, real second class status in a way that 2011 wasn't.

Resale buyers do research. Many will opt not to pay tens of thousands of dollars to be second class citizens. Those opt outs aren't likely to reward that treatment by paying even more to the company creating it.

Personally, I think the resale market will take a hit, and rentals will get even hotter...

Until Disney drops a lead foot on that, too.

 

[ziravan]

Tim, to your earlier point, I think it is an issue of perception vs reality.

For me at least, there is a perception that ownership is a club, and that perception is augmented by being a regular poster here.

And. The Merry Mixer was cool. Part of the club.

I'm not ignorant of the fact that DVC is a business. But. It's a phenomenal business for Disney, with or without these restrictions. They could have more than afforded to maintain character on stage.

Creating a real 2nd class tier changes things. It'll change things in the forums, too. It'll change how people start to research and then find out that there's a tier.

Last week, when people asked about the differences between resale and direct, they were told another oft repeated phrase here, "poor uses of points anyway".

What will be said next week, after this blows over, to the next newby just starting to research DVC?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It's 2016. The record keeping use for plastic ID cards gets less and less important with each passing day.

The ID number is not used to access the member website, which is where the majority of the reservation and customer service traffic now originates. And Member Services agents can locate a member's account without the ID.

Resale buyers will still have an ID number. It will be viewable on the member website, can be obtained from Member Services, etc.



Personally, I've never felt even a twinge of affection for my Disney Vacation Club ID card. It's a tool...not a source of pride.



Mine doesn't. It's a bar code on my smartphone. (Does that mean they don't love me?)

Well, apparently not everyone does things the same way. I'm just saying - I used it for the number where you said the sole reason was for discounts. It doesn't seem to me that DVC feels they could go without actual cards in 2016 either. They just went thru a tremendous effort to issue brand new physical cards to existing owners. And, they are also going to allow the digital version to be used at the registers from my understanding.

Considering that they require CM's to verify the card to an id it shouldn't be a high requirement to have them verify "no discounts" on a card. Not having the card is obviously a slight to some and really little point not to IMO.

I actually have no attachment to my card per se other than I do like having a non-electronic reference to my member numbers and it's a use I had for it that extends beyond your assertion. And, I still get membership cards elsewhere including new ones every year from the airline that distinguish my current status.

 

[Sammie]

Did everyone get their letter from Ken Potrock? It was the same as what was online.

 

[drusba]

Did everyone get their letter from Ken Potrock? It was the same as what was online.

Yep, got the letter. Demonstrated how efficiently and quickly Disney can get something to you ... when it is Disney taking something away. Now if they could only get to me the new membership cards...

 

[CMNJ]

Yep, got the letter. Demonstrated how efficiently and quickly Disney can get something to you ... when it is Disney taking something away. Now if they could only get to me the new membership cards...

I can't believe it is April and they are still in the process of sending out the new membership cards to existing members-that is crazy

 

[EllieBride]

Did everyone get their letter from Ken Potrock? It was the same as what was online.

Just curious... did people actually receive the Potrock letter via email? I didn't. I found it when I logged into the member website, but only because I saw everyone talking about it here on the DisBoards. If that's the only way this news was communicated, then I imagine a lot of members won't even see it for a long time.

 

[ziravan]

Just curious... did people actually receive the Potrock letter via email? I didn't. I found it when I logged into the member website, but only because I saw everyone talking about it here on the DisBoards. If that's the only way this news was communicated, then I imagine a lot of members won't even see it for a long time.

No. Snail mail. I got letter in the mail yesterday.

 

[drusba]

Just curious... did people actually receive the Potrock letter via email? I didn't. I found it when I logged into the member website, but only because I saw everyone talking about it here on the DisBoards. If that's the only way this news was communicated, then I imagine a lot of members won't even see it for a long time.

Not aware of any email. Knowledge on this site began when the member who started this thread the morning of April 3 reported seeing it on the DVC member site and everyone went there to see it. I got the mailed letter Wednesday, April 6. and I assume it was sent to all members.

 

[princessfionasmom]

I didn't get an email but I did receive my snail mail letter yesterday.

 

[Mousewerks]

I received the physical letter yesterday as well.

 

[hayesdvc]

I received the physical letter yesterday as well.

Same here and as many others still waiting on my membership cards.

 

[JimMIA]

Actually DVC IS still different in many respects. Wish I had copied and pasted a post I just did on this very, very same thing.

DVC is a points-based system so we can stay as little as 1 night or stay for weeks if we have the points and it's available.

This is certainly NOT unique to DVC. Many timeshare systems use points and allow nightly stays.

DVC allows any day of the week check-in. Other TS often require weekend check-in days

NOT unique to Disney. Some timeshares are fixed week and you have no alternative but to use the week you bought, including the exact days. Others are much more flexible. Some have specific checkin days -- or more commonly, required length of stay -- in peak seasons.

The reality is they are all different, but DVC certainly doesn't have a lock on this benefit. (And, keep in mind, the benefit could change with DVC or any other timeshare.)

DVC does not charge to bank or borrow. Some TS do.

And some don't. And some have MUCH more flexible banking/borrowing systems than DVC -- like Wyndham's 3 years vs DVC's one year.

DVC does not charge to "lock-off". Marriott does.

Again, some do, some don't.

DVC offers free transportation from MCO for WDW DVC resorts. Seriously? Can you get that at another TS?

No DVC does not. ALL Disney resorts provide MDE as a means of creating a captive audience for dining, shopping and everything else. MDE has nothing to do with DVC -- it's a benefit of staying anywhere onsite.

*****
The key thing to understand is that every timeshare is different from all the others. They all have their unique ways of doing things.

Many of the large timeshare systems have many times the numbers of resorts that DVC has (Wyndham 105+ resorts in more than 60 places; DVC 13 resorts in 5 places).

Many (probably most) timeshare systems include full individual membership in either RCI or II, and sometimes both. DVC does not.

Some timeshares offer reduced points costs (often 20-30% below the normal cost for that season) for some resorts at some times, and some even offer half-price points costs to large account holders.

Do those things mean one is better than the other?

No, it means they are different. But they are all still timeshares and all have both the good things about timeshares and the not-so-good.

 

[Andrew*A]

Just received an email stating that DVC have changed their minds and have decided to grandfather in all those who had submitted contracts prior to April 3Rd.

Here is the text.


April 7, 2016

Delivered via email



RE: Direct Purchase Benefits

Dear Sir or Madam;

As you are aware, on April 4, 2016, we announced the following important change to our incidental benefits policy: New purchasers of Disney Vacation Club® ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras, including Member discounts on dining, shopping, Member-exclusive events, and certain special Membership offers, as well as Disney and Concierge Collection options, already restricted for secondary market purchasers as of March 21, 2011.

This note is to inform you that anyone with a contract that was received by Disney Vacation Club by the end of the day on April 3, will be grandfathered in to have the same access to Membership Extras that are available to others who have purchased DVC memberships from sources other than Disney since March 21, 2011. (Note: Those members who purchased from sources other than DVC after March 21, 2011 may not use their points for the “Disney Collection” (select Disney Resort Hotels, Disney Cruise Line and Adventures by Disney) and the “Concierge Collection” resorts. As a reminder, the Membership Extras are incidental benefits offered by DVC and are subject to change.)

Thank you in advance for your assistance to this matter.

Sincerely,


Disney Vacation Club


We have now been informed by our broker that we will now get the benefits.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I am glad for you!

 

[disneynutz]

I received the physical letter yesterday as well.

Me too, now they have to increase dues to cover the mailing cost!


Bill

 

[bwvBound]

Me too, now they have to increase due to cover the mailing cost!


Bill

Awwww, Dude -- this is day for celebrating ... put the gray cloud back in the barn for a short rest? (tongue in cheek ... you know I like you, Bill)

 

[southerngirl528]

No DVC does not. ALL Disney resorts provide MDE as a means of creating a captive audience for dining, shopping and everything else. MDE has nothing to do with DVC -- it's a benefit of staying anywhere onsi

Yeah, yeah. My choice of "free" was lame. But it's included. There are no "free lunches" so of COURSE it's being paid for.

I read your entire rebuttal which you are most entitled to but no where did I say with my list that DVC was the ONLY timeshare that did those things so what is your point? We could go to that other side about how "lots of other timeshares" have big restrictions on their resales too, right? Have a MAGICAL day.

 

[mab2012]

I will not be surprised if the minimum direct purchase is raised.

I will. I don't see any reason why they would raise the minimum direct purchase amount, for existing owners or otherwise. The whole reason that the minimum purchase amount has dropped over time is that the direct purchase price has become so completely absurd that many can't afford more than a small contract. Are they going to freeze those potential purchasers out entirely? Or are they going to sell them a small contract, and hope they come back for more in a few years? My bet is the latter. Raising the direct purchase amount will do nothing but push people towards resale, especially since there ARE smaller contracts available on the resale market. Exactly what they don't want.

What they very well might do, at some point, is establish a minimum number of direct purchase points required to qualify for "perks". They'll call it "elite status", or some such thing, and instead of pushing buyers to resale it will encourage, to some extent, repeat direct-buy business.

ziravan, I hear what you're saying but DVC still IS different.

I know there are more differences, but those are a few. Anyone that says DVC is just like other TS does not know other TS.

Given the number of hours I've spent on TUG, I think I know more than most (but definitely less than some) about "other" TS. And I can't say that I think DVC is all that different. LOTS of other timeshare systems are point-based, and allow flexibility on check-in dates and length of stay. Where DVC does beat most other systems is on per-transaction fees. But that doesn't mean I don't pay the fees, it just means they're built into my dues. My maintenance fee cost at HGVC for an average two-bedroom unit in peak season is about $1000. Just like your Marriott timeshares, these are high-quality resorts, as good as (some would say better than) any DVC resort. A standard 2BD unit at DVC would cost me almost twice as much in dues in Magic Season, and well more than twice as much in Premier Season. So yeah, there's a "difference" there, but it's one we all pay for, no matter where you buy your contract.

Most other timeshares also treat resale buyers like second-class citizens, to varying extents. DVC didn't, much, until this recent change. Now they do. So again, not so different from other timeshares.

 

[southerngirl528]

Given the number of hours I've spent on TUG, I think I know more than most (but definitely less than some) about "other" TS. And I can't say that I think DVC is all that different. LOTS of other timeshare systems are point-based, and allow flexibility on check-in dates and length of stay. Where DVC does beat most other systems is on per-transaction fees. But that doesn't mean I don't pay the fees, it just means they're built into my dues. My maintenance fee cost at HGVC for an average two-bedroom unit in peak season is about $1000. Just like your Marriott timeshares, these are high-quality resorts, as good as (some would say better than) any DVC resort. A standard 2BD unit at DVC would cost me almost twice as much in dues in Magic Season, and well more than twice as much in Premier Season. So yeah, there's a "difference" there, but it's one we all pay for, no matter where you buy your contract.

Most other timeshares also treat resale buyers like second-class citizens, to varying extents. DVC didn't, much, until this recent change. Now they do. So again, not so different from other timeshares.

I am certainly no expert on other TS, but I do know my DVC membership very well, as I should since I've owned 23 years. That said, I do own several weeks w/Marriott. Two are at their highest demand resort (by some data) that I bought direct. I find MF's vary widely by LOCATION as much as by company. My Vero Beach points cost me considerably more than my OKW contracts. My MVC ownership is for an oceanfront resort in a very pricey location so those dues are HIGH. I have found it much more difficult to utilize my pricey TS I have with MVC than what I have ever experienced in all these years w/DVC. It's pretty discouraging to call in at the first moment of inventory release at the 13 month window (I own direct and multi-week so I can book at 13 months) with Marriott only to find there is NO availability of me. THAT was the biggest TS disappointment I have ever had. And what took me to TUGS. If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought fixed weeks at my MVC resort. I would never have those same issues with DVC.

So folks can talk about how DVC isn't different all they want and maybe for them it isn't at all different. But in my experience, there are still some pretty big differences. And I own on both sides of the TS fence.