RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[dankil13]

But to make that actually more relevant to this situation, is that the original buyer was given an incentive that they would be credited HOA dues for the life of their ownership. When you sell, the next person doesn't get their HOA fees credits. All of these items that are being taken away are not paid for by dues. They are either freebies that have no cost to DVC, such as discounts at stores, etc. Or special events paid for with marketing fees....and those marketing fees are part of the profits from selling DVC. If DVD did not sell any contracts, they would not make profits in order to pay marketing to recruit new members.

These benefits are not for the members, they are purely for marketing purposes only.

I don't care too much about the benefits. I wouldn't use most of them to be frank other than the 10% discount which I can get with a Disney Visa (and even those savings would be minimal since we pack lunches and make breakfast/dinners). But the fact that we won't get member cards and be treated just like when I was renting points is what irritates me, in addition to how Disney screwed up communicating it.

And while you say many of these items are marketing ploys, the fact is when you commit to spending a lot of your vacation dollars for the next 40 years or so with Disney its nice to feel in some small way appreciated. Instead Disney has done the exact opposite. Maybe they will exercise their ROFR on my contract and I can continue to rent.

 

[dankil13]

Yes, prices were lower when I bought in '93. But so were housing price, car prices, you-name-it prices. It is all relative. You are in real estate transactions you said, so you would know this. That is a moot point. You are correct that prices change all the time. Did your used Beamer have the same length warranty as a new one? Did you get your "free" servicing for as long if at all? I know that some of the luxury brand car companies have "certified pre-owned" or "gently used" type warranties but those warranties are not as long as a brand new purchase.

I got the balance of the initial warranty and 4 years of free service (a little less than 1.5 years remaining). BMW adds on 2 years of warranty to the initial warranty for its CPO vehicles.

Back to your initial comment about prices being a moot point. People like to say resale should be treated differently because they paid less than original owners, but in many cases that is not true if you compare what an OKW owner paid back in the 90's vs what an OKW owner is paying now for resale or from DVD. Everyone has paid more or less depending on when they bought. That really shouldn't be a factor.

 

[chicagoshannon]

The purchaser who buys directly from Disney gets the full 50 years of use out of the contract. The resale buyer does not. That is why the resale is cheaper. In most other time shares the owner keeps the points/weeks forever. If Disney time share was forever I could maybe see the differentiation on level that other time shares have. The incentive to buy directly from Disney is to get the entire 50 years, other time shares don't have that as an incentive so they have to provide other "perks" for buying direct.

I'm guessing the only reason we resale buyers are grandfathered in at all is because it would discrimination to remove a benefit that all members receive from current members. They can only legally change the rules going forward. Yes, in the contract it says that they can take away "perks" without notice. It does not say they can take away perks from some members and not others without notice. Whatever perks were there when you signed up have to remain UNLESS they take it away from everyone.

We bought resale last year, a very small contract. It would not have made sense for us to buy without the annual pass discount. We know that it can be taken away/changed at any time but we went into it thinking that if it was it would change for all current members. If we were to be first time resale buyers today we would skip it. In fact, I kind of wish we could get the money we spent last year back. Disney is just being so petty lately.

 

[southerngirl528]

Back to your initial comment about prices being a moot point. People like to say resale should be treated differently because they paid less than original owners, but in many cases that is not true if you compare what an OKW owner paid back in the 90's vs what an OKW owner is paying now for resale or from DVD. Everyone has paid more or less depending on when they bought. That really shouldn't be a factor.

Perhaps you missed my earlier response. The prices of EVERYTHING was markedly less in the early 90's. The price was and is relative. The $15,000 or so I spent initially was a very large chunk of change at that time.

 

[TisBit]

The purchaser who buys directly from Disney gets the full 50 years of use out of the contract. The resale buyer does not. That is why the resale is cheaper. In most other time shares the owner keeps the points/weeks forever. If Disney time share was forever I could maybe see the differentiation on level that other time shares have. The incentive to buy directly from Disney is to get the entire 50 years, other time shares don't have that as an incentive so they have to provide other "perks" for buying direct.

I'm guessing the only reason we resale buyers are grandfathered in at all is because it would discrimination to remove a benefit that all members receive from current members. They can only legally change the rules going forward. Yes, in the contract it says that they can take away "perks" without notice. It does not say they can take away perks from some members and not others without notice. Whatever perks were there when you signed up have to remain UNLESS they take it away from everyone.

We bought resale last year, a very small contract. It would not have made sense for us to buy without the annual pass discount. We know that it can be taken away/changed at any time but we went into it thinking that if it was it would change for all current members. If we were to be first time resale buyers today we would skip it. In fact, I kind of wish we could get the money we spent last year back. Disney is just being so petty lately.

I don't think that is 100% accurate about being able to exclude existing resale owners. It would be an interesting fight, but because they are not part of the contract I think they could do it if they really wanted to and there was an incentive to do it. The reason they didn't is because then you are impacting CURRENT members and could possibly face some legal challenges one way or another. And DVC wouldn't get anything for doing it. So it is just easier to leave it as is.

The outrage expressed here from current members already show that. And right now the only people that have a valid complaint of impact are ones that are already under contract for a purchase. Yes, communication is a mess, but honestly I don't know a single organization that has made a public comment that was not eluded to earlier that has the ability to have every cast member not trying to figure it out themselves on the fly. That is why with this stuff, instead of blowing up MS phones on day one, hour one, it is best to let the dust settle and see where it ends. I guarantee it will be changed further over the next week.

 

[Mbm1014]

The purchaser who buys directly from Disney gets the full 50 years of use out of the contract. The resale buyer does not. That is why the resale is cheaper. In most other time shares the owner keeps the points/weeks forever. If Disney time share was forever I could maybe see the differentiation on level that other time shares have. The incentive to buy directly from Disney is to get the entire 50 years, other time shares don't have that as an incentive so they have to provide other "perks" for buying direct.

I'm guessing the only reason we resale buyers are grandfathered in at all is because it would discrimination to remove a benefit that all members receive from current members. They can only legally change the rules going forward. Yes, in the contract it says that they can take away "perks" without notice. It does not say they can take away perks from some members and not others without notice. Whatever perks were there when you signed up have to remain UNLESS they take it away from everyone.

We bought resale last year, a very small contract. It would not have made sense for us to buy without the annual pass discount. We know that it can be taken away/changed at any time but we went into it thinking that if it was it would change for all current members. If we were to be first time resale buyers today we would skip it. In fact, I kind of wish we could get the money we spent last year back. Disney is just being so petty lately.

I agree, and in my opinion they shouldn't be able to take it away from those who are already under contract, and passed ROFR...that is being very petty, and walking a very fine line....I hope they act quickly and do something to make this right, or many people will have a sour taste in their mouths...very sad...

 

[southerngirl528]

The purchaser who buys directly from Disney gets the full 50 years of use out of the contract.

This is only true if the buyer buys the very first year the new resort is offered. Everyone gets the same length of ownership regardless of how they purchase. The length of membership is dependent upon the year the resort opened, not how it was purchased.

Whatever perks were there when you signed up have to remain UNLESS they take it away from everyone.

This is absolutely not in the contract. If you can provide a source that proves otherwise, I would love to see it. And this has been disproven with the changes that occurred in March 2011. Perks/benefits are NEVER guaranteed no matter how/what/when you bought DVC. We bought a TIMESHARE and that is what we each have (if we are members) no matter how we purchased. That is the same and the same per contract.

 

[TisBit]

The purchaser who buys directly from Disney gets the full 50 years of use out of the contract. The resale buyer does not. That is why the resale is cheaper. In most other time shares the owner keeps the points/weeks forever. If Disney time share was forever I could maybe see the differentiation on level that other time shares have. The incentive to buy directly from Disney is to get the entire 50 years, other time shares don't have that as an incentive so they have to provide other "perks" for buying direct.

I'm guessing the only reason we resale buyers are grandfathered in at all is because it would discrimination to remove a benefit that all members receive from current members. They can only legally change the rules going forward. Yes, in the contract it says that they can take away "perks" without notice. It does not say they can take away perks from some members and not others without notice. Whatever perks were there when you signed up have to remain UNLESS they take it away from everyone.

We bought resale last year, a very small contract. It would not have made sense for us to buy without the annual pass discount. We know that it can be taken away/changed at any time but we went into it thinking that if it was it would change for all current members. If we were to be first time resale buyers today we would skip it. In fact, I kind of wish we could get the money we spent last year back. Disney is just being so petty lately.

Yes and no. Yes, they get less than 50 years, but they also don't pay the mark up of a direct purchase. DVC is not a non profit, so the original purchaser pays that price. Just like Ford doesn't get any benefit from a car being sold used but does if it is certified pre owned, which means they throw in some extras. Same with DVC, you could purchase an older contract from DVC, but you will have to be on a waitlist, pay more, etc.

 

[dankil13]

Perhaps you missed my earlier response. The prices of EVERYTHING was markedly less in the early 90's. The price was and is relative. The $15,000 or so I spent initially was a very large chunk of change at that time.

Ok - $48/point in 1991 converts to $83.56 today based on CPI. $56 in 1992 converts to $94.64. Again not to different than what I am paying for resale at SSR on a 100 point contract. and what OKW resales are being sold for for about half the benfit.

 

[Brian Noble]

This is the Internet world and even those buying on the spot can google on the spot. And where will google bring them? To this forum, to us.

This will be minimal at best. There are other timeshare systems with MUCH more significant post-sale devaluations, and they all still sell at a very healthy clip.

 

[TreyQ3]

I got the balance of the initial warranty and 4 years of free service (a little less than 1.5 years remaining). BMW adds on 2 years of warranty to the initial warranty for its CPO vehicles.

But you paid for that 4 years of free service by getting a CPO vehicle. BMW clearly states that the maintenance program is not transferable. So you paid a premium to get the CPO.

I think the equivalent to the DVC situation is buying a 2 year old used BMW at Car Max. You wouldn't get the maintenance program that the new owner enjoyed. Your BMW example would be the same as DVC allowing you to pay a premium to get the same benefits as a direct buy owner.

 

[bks9581]

In answer to your question: The kind of club where certain members do not pay the full membership fee. You can't waltz into your local country club and negotiate the fees way down and still get all the perks. Not going to happen. I can't buy a coach ticket and demand to sit in first class. Not going to happen.

To use your example of tickets...people pay different prices for airline tickets all the time, but you aren't seated based on how much you paid or not given peanuts because you didn't pay full price. If I bought a ticket through some discount site vs direct through the airline, I still expect to get everything that the person next to me is getting. And sure, the airline can change their offerings at will, but just because I bought a seat $300 less than the person next to me, doesn't mean I would expect to get less during my flight. You even have people in first class that were upgraded for free and still get everything the other first class passengers are getting. Resale folks are still paying the same maintenance fees as direct buyers so it isn't as though they aren't contributing or paying into the "club.". People purchased into a vacation club and expect to get what other members of the club get. In that analogy, it would be like someone buying a discount ticket and then being told they no longer have access to the overhead storage bins. "Well you bought a seat and only a seat...you shouldn't be upset that all you get is a seat now." I don't think that would go over very well.

What about people who have inherited their DVC membership? They aren't the original owners and didn't buy direct so should they then be told their membership isn't a full membership anymore?

Businesses can do what they want and are all about profits, but I think it would have been smarter to offer new perks/incentives (besides a lame tote bag) for direct buyers rather than take existing perks away. Like others have said, it isn't really even about what "perks" are now unavailable to new resale owners, it's more in which the way Disney did this and the attitude they are showing toward resale buyers. And I do realize that this already happened with the ability to book cruises, etc. But the current perks not available to resale now are so trivial that it just doesn't even make sense that they are doing this.

I am someone who bought resale in early 2015 and would NEVER have bought DVC if it weren't for resale. I would have continued to rent points as we had been doing in previous years and probably would have gone to Disney less than we do now as owners and therefore spent way less of our travel dollars in Disney.

 

[mab2012]

I don't think anyone says it has not been "fair" for resale purchasers to get the extra benefits.

I've seen it stated in this thread, multiple times. And, for what little my opinion is worth, I think it's downright silly. As far as I know, resale has always been an option, except perhaps for those who bought in 1991. And we've already established that those who bought in 1991 paid no more than what resale buyers are paying now, even inflation adjusted, and have enjoyed longer use of those properties. So they really have nothing to complain about.

As for everyone else, they've all had the same choice to buy resale or direct. If they chose direct, they did so for their own reasons. And, save for perhaps a few extremely naive people who bought direct since 2011 for access to the Concierge Collection, those reasons did not include the "perks", because until now those were available either way. So to then turn around and say "boo hoo, someone else paid less than me but got the same benefits, it's not fair"... well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it's not very rational.

Here's what you pay for when you buy direct:

• convenience
• speed
• low risk
• easy financing
• early access to a new resort
• since 2011, access to Concierge Collection
• going forward, access, for now, to revokable perks
• a DVC binder, or bag, or whatever other bit of marketing junk they choose to send your way

The only other reason I can think of to buy direct is ignorance, and that's no excuse. I've never spoken to a DVC guide, but I've seen others post how resale has been used as a selling point. And as a buyer, if your guide is telling you that you can resell it, or it's stated in your purchase documents, then it stands to reason that a resale market exists. If you don't choose to investigate that option - well, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't make it "unfair" when other people do.

 

[southerngirl528]

What about people who have inherited their DVC membership? They aren't the original owners and didn't buy direct so should they then be told their membership isn't a full membership anymore?

My understanding is that these folks will not be impacted.

Resale folks are still paying the same maintenance fees as direct buyers so it isn't as though they aren't contributing or paying into the "club.". People purchased into a vacation club and expect to get what other members of the club get.

Sorry, I disagree. Marriott Vacation Club and just about any other TS out there delineates a difference in access/perks, etc. for their resale owners as opposed to direct buyers. Maintenance fees are on what each and every member (regardless of how they purchased) pay on what they actually own which is a TIMESHARE. Maintenance fees have ZERO to do with perks/benefits. ZERO. They are for the upkeep, taxes, insurance, etc., on the real estate interest you and I own. NOTHING MORE. Paying MF's is a given regardless so that is moot.

I have restrictions on my resale week w/Marriott. Big deal. I still own the same week the direct purchasers but I paid a heck of a lot less.

 

[Mbm1014]

It is just like when you book a room at the "Fairmont Hotel" on 'getaroom' and pay 50%, you still get the same room and benefits as if you booked directly with the hotel....same thing if you purchased a 'coach' seat on an airline ahead of time and paid 'premium' price and then someone walks up the day of the flight and get a 'coach' seat for 1/2 the price, they still get the same benefits of riding 'coach' and get treated the same way....regardless of their 'purchase' price...they still have a ticket for that 'area'...

 

[southerngirl528]

It is just like when you book a room at the "Fairmont Hotel" on 'getaroom' and pay 50%, you still get the same room and benefits as if you booked directly with the hotel....same thing if you purchased a 'coach' seat on an airline ahead of time and paid 'premium' price and then someone walks up the day of the flight and get a 'coach' seat for 1/2 the price, they still get the same benefits of riding 'coach' and get treated the same way....regardless of their 'purchase' price...they still have a ticket for that 'area'...

And resale buyers still have access to the same room(s) or "area". We agree to disagree.

 

[TisBit]

It is just like when you book a room at the "Fairmont Hotel" on 'getaroom' and pay 50%, you still get the same room and benefits as if you booked directly with the hotel....same thing if you purchased a 'coach' seat on an airline ahead of time and paid 'premium' price and then someone walks up the day of the flight and get a 'coach' seat for 1/2 the price, they still get the same benefits of riding 'coach' and get treated the same way....regardless of their 'purchase' price...they still have a ticket for that 'area'...

Not really, because at DVC you also get the exact same room. No one says you get the same benefits at the Fairmont Hotel as the guest next to you. They may have booked their room with a special incentive to get 20% off breakfast, or access to a special club or any other benefit the hotel used to push its product. We see that all the time, you check in and the person next to you get drink coupons or something else and you don't because you didn't get the same deal.

Even airlines can be different. Usually more international, but when I booked our trip to Spain, we picked what benefits we wanted and paid for it. We have free checked bags, meal and drinks included. I could have paid less and not received those benefits.

 

[Mbm1014]

Yes, but they still get all the 'perk's of staying on the 'gold' floor, regardless if they paid full price and booked through the hotel directly, vs. booked it through a discount hotel room...all the perks are the same!

 

[TisBit]

Yes, but they still get all the 'perk's of staying on the 'gold' floor, regardless if they paid full price and booked through the hotel directly, vs. booked it through a discount hotel room...all the perks are the same!

And again, the member has the same benefit if they buy resale or direct. they have access to the exact same rooms at the same point prices. We are talking about a perk, which is what I referenced. If DVC said resale owners had different booking windows or weren't allowed to book certain types of rooms, your point would be valid, but it isn't.

 

[Mbm1014]

Not really, because at DVC you also get the exact same room. No one says you get the same benefits at the Fairmont Hotel as the guest next to you. They may have booked their room with a special incentive to get 20% off breakfast, or access to a special club or any other benefit the hotel used to push its product. We see that all the time, you check in and the person next to you get drink coupons or something else and you don't because you didn't get the same deal.

Even airlines can be different. Usually more international, but when I booked our trip to Spain, we picked what benefits we wanted and paid for it. We have free checked bags, meal and drinks included. I could have paid less and not received those benefits.

i guess I should have been more specific, we often book a room at Fairmont on the 'gold floor' through a discount hotel site, we pay hundreds less for the same room as those who book directly through hotel...and we get ALL the same perks of staying on the 'gold floor' which is free breakfast, cocktails, plush robes, you name it!! It is just the fact that many don't know they can do that, or they don't care about the price they could save...the benefits to buying directly through disney are the 50 years of vacation, and the huge incentives that they offer, like a free trip to Hawaii, etc...or ability to book at Adventures by Disney, Cruises, if that is what your family wants, and quick closing, direct financing, etc...but resale is exactly that...resale, when someone decides to sell, at a 'deprecated rate', as some of those years are gone of the contract, etc...the "benefits/perks" of being a member, should be just that, you are still a member, regardless of how/where you purchased it...again, what really bothers me, is how they went about this all with very bad communication, changing their mind on those who are currently under contract...that is what is really not sitting well with me one bit...very, very petty....very heartless and un-disney .... but yes, many agree to disagree...