republicans vote down minimum wage again

[NewJersey]

Messagge to the OP. You might want to change the title of this thread after you read who and how they voted on that bill.

Not so fast, it was attached to a another bill. It's hard in congress to vote for something when members of each party just stick things onto bills to make everyone happy.

 

[Cool-Beans]

This is a joke right? You don't actually believe this?

He makes $7 an hour. Starting a business might be a little tricky. Assuming he has the skills for that he has neither the start up money nor the time. Since he probably has to work two full time jobs just to eat and pay rent. Since the minimum wage is so low he's not going to find a job where he lives that pays better. Why would they pay better when the govt. says it's okay to not pay a living wage? They can righteously point out that they are paying two bucks over the minimum! (best not to mention that a living wage is $15 an hour.) Maybe he could move to a place that offers a better wage but guess what? When you only make $7 an hour you don't make enough money to move. You don't make enough moeny to even move across town because you can't save enough to make first/last and deposit. Even if you're working two or three jobs.

Don't listen to this person. Some people find reasons things CAN'T be done...and those folks never accomplish anything. Others find ways to get things done.

Let's think. Was there ever a person who had nothing and ended up rich? Hmmm...Yes!

It can be done. And you could do it.

Or you can sit around saying, "I only make $7 and it isn't fair!" Decide what will make you happier and go for it.

 

[Planogirl]

Anyone who is good at installing floors/tile (that sort of stuff) will do well. Good plumbers make a fortune!

Nurses do considerably better than minimum wage and need only an associate's degree (or diploma from a hospital).

Lots of clerical workers make a LOT more than minimum wage.

Good places to go work if you want to get promoted without a degree are hotels and banks.

All of these jobs require training and hard work. It's not "free" to receive that training and one must work and survive while being trained. Not everyone has the resources or time to pursue further education. A lot of people are just out there working hard in order to buy food and pay their rent.

I'm not saying that it can't be done but it gets harder and harder as prices go up and wages stay the same.

 

[Charade]

He makes $7 an hour. Starting a business might be a little tricky. Assuming he has the skills for that he has neither the start up money nor the time. Since he probably has to work two full time jobs just to eat and pay rent. Since the minimum wage is so low he's not going to find a job where he lives that pays better. Why would they pay better when the govt. says it's okay to not pay a living wage? They can righteously point out that they are paying two bucks over the minimum! (best not to mention that a living wage is $15 an hour.) Maybe he could move to a place that offers a better wage but guess what? When you only make $7 an hour you don't make enough money to move. You don't make enough money to even move across town because you can't save enough to make first/last and deposit. Even if you're working two or three jobs.

So $15/hour minimum wage is what you want? Afterall, that's a living wage.

You do realize that a McD's burger will cost a lot more if the burger flippers make $15/hour? If it costs you more to buy that burger and you make the same living wage, you'll probably have to cut back on the number of times you eat at McD's. The company won't make as much profit, won't be able to higher new workers, etc etc etc.

Wash rinse and repeat for a lot of goods and services if the government forced businesses to pay a living wage.

 

[georgia4now]

How about we raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour? OK? Would that make everyone happy?

No, of course not, because then all the other wages go up, everything costs more, and the people at the bottom are still not as well off as everyone else.

I have always found the minimum wage argument silly. No matter where you set it, the folks who make it are still at the bottom.


Oh, and I flew back from Orlando with Dennis Kucinich recently. He flew first class, so he's doing OK financially. Certainly better than the vast majority of his constituents.

I totally agree!

We can raise the minimum wage to $100 per hour. Then we can have "minimum car" where everyone gets a Lexus. Ooohh, how about "minimum house" and "minimum private school".

Think about it. If you had to pay the same per pound for ground beef as you did for filet mignon, would you buy the ground beef? As a true capitalist, I believe it's every American's right to underbid the next guy and keep healthy competition. He'll do it for $11 per hour? Fine. I can make it work for $10.50, $8 or $6 etc.

On another note, I have 11 people working for me. 6 of them are hourly. Raise the minimum wage, and somebody's loosing their job! I'm not being mean, it's just that my boss will demand that I stay within the budget we agreed to for this fiscal.

 

[NewJersey]

A national minimum wage is not the answer. you have to know some microeconomics before getting into this debate. While I don't think costs will rise proportionately to the increase in national wages, I do think there will be some effect on costs to consumers. And at a time when inflation is already pretty high, gas prices staying put at or just under $3, I'd rather not see costs increase anymore.

press your own state legislatures to do something. NJ is 6.15 an hour, going up to 7.15 an hour on 10/1/06.

 

[Charade]

Not so fast, it was attached to a another bill. It's hard in congress to vote for something when members of each party just stick things onto bills to make everyone happy.

So you're assuming that if the bill was on it's own, the Republicans would vote it down? They just might. But that's not the way things work in Washington. Sad but true.

Still, the OP's title is *wrong*.

So how much do you think the minimum wage should be? And you're absolutely convinced that if the minimum wage were raised, it wouldn't hurt some businesses?

Somewhere, someone proposed that if Walmart raised the amount of benefits they paid their employees, they could still keep low prices but just reduce their profits.

Yeah, ok.

How's about we just force businesses to a certain percentage of profit. Enough to keep the company growing a little and give the "excess" profits back the the employees. Would you be ok with that if you were a business owner?

 

[Tumbleweed]

Several days ago on these boards, there was a discussion going on
about what people paid babysitters (the teenage kids down the street type).
They were getting an average of $8 - $10 per hour.

I believe that this is just a way for the powers that be to enable big business
to hire cheap labor (guest workers?).

I do believe if Congress isn't going to raise the minimum wage to stay in
touch with modern times, they should just do away with it.

 

[Aidensmom]

They will have exactly the same buying power, because now they have to pay more for everything, too. In your words, "too bad."

Where would you like to set the minimum wage. I'm thinking $100.00 / hour, but $1,000 or $1,000,000 will do as well.

It doesn't matter WHERE it is set, those folks will still be at the bottom.

So, where do you want to set it?

I am not sure anyone has a problem that these jobs will still be the lowest paying jobs, or "at the bottom". I think what people have a problem with is that the bottom starts too low.

I don't make minimum wage, nor does my spouse, but I do understand that there are people out there that do and that still need to pay their bills. A lot of these people would be better off on welfare. They are NOT lazy good-for-nothings if they are choosing to work instead. They are NOT asking for a handout. They are asking to be able to be a contributing member of this society, and not have an empty belly.

Everyone likes to point out that if the person making $5.15 instead made $7 that prices would go up, but no one seems to care that the people making $500,000 a year still get their cost-of-living increases each year. A person with a $500,000 salary who gets a 3% increase gets $15,000 a year. A $2/hr raise for someone making minimum wage is only $4160/year.

 

[Cool-Beans]

All of these jobs require training and hard work. It's not "free" to receive that training and one must work and survive while being trained. Not everyone has the resources or time to pursue further education. A lot of people are just out there working hard in order to buy food and pay their rent.

I'm not saying that it can't be done but it gets harder and harder as prices go up and wages stay the same.

First of all, many places will train you while you get paid. Go to some plumbing company and learn the ropes, then go out on your own. Hotels and banks hire with absolutely NO experience.

But some DO require school, too. The schooling is free for anyone making $7/hour. Government picks up the tab there.

Yes, it takes hard work. If you aren't willing to work hard, you better count on marrying rich or winning the lottery. Lots of folks work while in school. Yes, it IS hard. But it can be done.

You said you wanted to know of jobs that paid better than $7/hour that didn't require degrees and I gave you some.

You wanna come up with reasons NOT to do them, that's peachy with me. It isn't my life.

This attitude of coming up with reasons that you or someone else CANNOT be a success because of blah-blah-blah is something I've never understood.

Yeah, some folks are too dumb to start a business or even do clerical work...but you don't even have to know how to READ to lay a floor.

It's out there for people who want it.

Better to aim high and TRY than say "I can't" and cry.

 

[NewJersey]

So you're assuming that if the bill was on it's own, the Republicans would vote it down? They just might. But that's not the way things work in Washington. Sad but true.

Still, the OP's title is *wrong*.

So how much do you think the minimum wage should be? And you're absolutely convinced that if the minimum wage were raised, it wouldn't hurt some businesses?

Somewhere, someone proposed that if Walmart raised the amount of benefits they paid their employees, they could still keep low prices but just reduce their profits.

Yeah, ok.

How's about we just force businesses to a certain percentage of profit. Enough to keep the company growing a little and give the "excess" profits back the the employees. Would you be ok with that if you were a business owner?

Oh, I totally agree with you it's sad how things in DC work, but that's the way it does.

And you should read my post I had a few ones up that will probably address most of what you just asked.

I'm actually on your side of this debate.

Oh here's an article on Costco and how they can afford to pay better benefits and an average wage of 17 an hour, while keep costs down. Now, I don't think you can compare this to Walmart, since Costco has a fee to shop there and they sell in bulk, which brings costs down. But just something to think about.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/BTC/walmart072905.cfm

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This is a joke right? You don't actually believe this?

He makes $7 an hour. Starting a business might be a little tricky. Assuming he has the skills for that he has neither the start up money nor the time. Since he probably has to work two full time jobs just to eat and pay rent. Since the minimum wage is so low he's not going to find a job where he lives that pays better. Why would they pay better when the govt. says it's okay to not pay a living wage? They can righteously point out that they are paying two bucks over the minimum! (best not to mention that a living wage is $15 an hour.) Maybe he could move to a place that offers a better wage but guess what? When you only make $7 an hour you don't make enough money to move. You don't make enough moeny to even move across town because you can't save enough to make first/last and deposit. Even if you're working two or three jobs.

please. This is self pity.

Best not mention living wage is $15--do you know what happens if minumum wage were raised to that?

Living wage becomes $30.

Utopia doesn't exist.

There are excuses for everything and there will always be someone who crawls their way up.

My mother was 1 of 9 and lived impoverished for a bit. She was a high school drop out who flunked home economics because her skills were lackluster.

She went on to get her GED, had a 19 year military career (honorable discharged (medical)), went to culinary school and worked as a chef a bit---had some up and down jobs until her disability got the best o her. She just got her dream home in the Florida Keys.

She never made excuses for herself along the way.

Why are you making excuses or everyone out there on minimum wage?

 

[Cool-Beans]

I am not sure anyone has a problem that these jobs will still be the lowest paying jobs, or "at the bottom". I think what people have a problem with is that the bottom starts too low.

I don't make minimum wage, nor does my spouse, but I do understand that there are people out there that do and that still need to pay their bills. A lot of these people would be better off on welfare. They are NOT lazy good-for-nothings if they are choosing to work instead. They are NOT asking for a handout. They are asking to be able to be a contributing member of this society, and not have an empty belly.

Everyone likes to point out that if the person making $5.15 instead made $7 that prices would go up, but no one seems to care that the people making $500,000 a year still get their cost-of-living increases each year. A person with a $500,000 salary who gets a 3% increase gets $15,000 a year. A $2/hr raise for someone making minimum wage is only $4160/year.

If the problem is the low amount of minimum wage (and not the fact that there will always be people at the bottom of the totem pole), then why not just raise the minimum wage to $1,000.00 an hour? Then the amount isn't so low.

 

[Aidensmom]

If the problem is the low amount of minimum wage (and not the fact that there will always be people at the bottom of the totem pole), then why not just raise the minimum wage to $1,000.00 an hour? Then the amount isn't so low.

Why is it that only the people opposed to raising the minimum wage are suggesting such unrealistic amounts?

 

[C.Ann]

Interesting.. So if the minimum wage isn't increased, then the cost of products and services will never increase either? That's a new one on me.. LOL

And for those who think the well-paying jobs that are secured with a good education are the way to go, are you willing to go ten years (or more) without a raise while the cost of living continues to rise? I think not......

 

[jgmklmhem]

Why is it that only the people opposed to raising the minimum wage are suggesting such unrealistic amounts?

Because it is a sliding scale whether you raise it 2 dollars or 1000 given a little time the person who is making that wage will probably be exactly right where they were to begin with. The only difference is that their paycheck says something higher...but their buying power would probably be about the same so the raise really did nothing for them.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I agree whole-heartedly. Why not make minimum wage $1,000,000 an hour? It really doesn't matter. The end result is the same. Business lays people off, hires fewer workers (because, believe it or not, skill is not required to flip burgers), and passes the cost on to consumers. People earning mimimum wage are consumers, too. There goes their raise. In addition, other workers begin having to spend more for everything and their businesses respond by giving them raises. And everything is back to the beginning again. Instead, the market should dictate what a certain task is worth. The government should not tell McDonald's the cashier should earn $10/hr. McDonald's should decide how many people want the job and set the pay appropriately. This is not hard.

Excellent post....I couldn't have phrased it any better.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Everyone likes to point out that if the person making $5.15 instead made $7 that prices would go up, but no one seems to care that the people making $500,000 a year still get their cost-of-living increases each year. A person with a $500,000 salary who gets a 3% increase gets $15,000 a year. A $2/hr raise for someone making minimum wage is only $4160/year.

First of not everyone gets a COL increase. At my husbands company raises are based on merit.

Sometimes in lieu of a raise, they will give a modest lump sum. So employee gets something--but not a permanent raise. In some cases employee got nothing and in others--they may even get a decreas in pay. If a raise is not merited, a raise will not be given.


And again--you pay people what they are worth to do a job.

How much is cleaning a toilet worth to you? Now I personally would have LOVED to get $20 or so an hour when I did this. But in all honesty---is it worth that much to scrub a toilet no matter how hard working I was or how hard working my co-worker was?

No.

You get paid what you are worth.

Just like when you buy product--you pay only what you think it is worth. If that shirt is not worth $20 to you, you will not buy it. You will wait until it goes on sale. To some a 10% discount is enough to make the purchase worthwhile---to others they wait until it is 75% off before it is worth it. One said the shirt was worth $18 to them and the other said it is worth only $5. This is for the same shirt.

Minimum wage is the bargain basement price that anyone can legally be employed.

If noone wants the job but the company needs it filled--they will raise the wage.

If noone still wants the job--then a determination is made. Do we raise the rate or do we just spread the wealth and give everyone else a nickle or so raise to do a task that new job would have covered.


This is not self rightenous--this is how our economy is set up.

Everyone has the right to PURSUE happiness. Noone has the right to have it handed to them on a silver platter. Laziness has nothing to do with it. How hard you are willing to work has nothing to do with it. How much your skills matched to the companies needs are worth is all that matters.

 

[Beth76]

All of these jobs require training and hard work.

Uh, yeah. And your point is? We should pay people more because they don't want to work hard? I worked hard in high school. I worked hard in college. So did my husband. My DH works hard at his job now. I'm not saying everyone has to go to college. But if you want to make a decent wage, you have to work for it. You only need a high school diploma to work in a bank. That's a pretty cushy job without needed a degree.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Interesting.. So if the minimum wage isn't increased, then the cost of products and services will never increase either? That's a new one on me.. LOL

Increased prices isn't 100% dependent upon minimum wage.

But if it costs more to sell said item or service b/c they are legally obligated to pay workers more--prices will not remain at the same level they were prior to the hourly increase.

Noone said that prices will never increase if minimum wage didn't increase.