republicans vote down minimum wage again

[NewJersey]

And for those who think the well-paying jobs that are secured with a good education are the way to go, are you willing to go ten years (or more) without a raise while the cost of living continues to rise? I think not......

That's not relevant here because it's not a minimum wage job. People with a college education, have certain skills; skills that are paid for in a global marketplace. yes, it does seem that wages don't increase the same as the cost of living. That's a whole different issue.

 

[C.Ann]

Increased prices isn't 100% dependent upon minimum wage.

But if it costs more to sell said item or service b/c they are legally obligated to pay workers more--prices will not remain at the same level they were prior to the hourly increase.

Noone said that prices will never increase if minimum wage didn't increase.

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You didn't answer my second question..

 

[C.Ann]

That's not relevant here because it's not a minimum wage job. People with a college education, have certain skills; skills that are paid for in a global marketplace. yes, it does seem that wages don't increase the same as the cost of living. That's a whole different issue.

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Why is it not relevant? It doesn't matter if you're in a minimum wage job or a high paying job or anywhere in between.. The cost of living goes up every year.. So - are you willing to go ten years or more without a raise, COL increase or bonus? The truthful answer would be "No."

 

[Bob Slydell]

And for those who think the well-paying jobs that are secured with a good education are the way to go, are you willing to go ten years (or more) without a raise while the cost of living continues to rise? I think not......

Quite a few middle management "well paying" jobs have gone anywhere from 3 to 6 or 7 years without any pay raises. The economy hasn't been very good for many professions since around 2000. I know I'm making pretty much the same amount today than I did in 2000. But we survive and make adjustments.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

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You didn't answer my second question..

And for those who think the well-paying jobs that are secured with a good education are the way to go, are you willing to go ten years (or more) without a raise while the cost of living continues to rise? I think not

Don't really have a good answer--but if someone already makes a decent living well above minimum wage but doesn't get COL increases--that is between them and the employer. Raises are not ever guaranteed. I remember one job where the raise was 25 cents per hour per year no matter how many years of service. So the longer you stayed the less impact that raise had on spending power. But it was a job to do for the love of it as the industry isn't high paying at the local level.

In fact I discussed my hubby's company and what they do in an earlier post.
At his company it is merit based and if you suck in your job you aren't getting a raise no matter how much over your head you are in your mortgage.

If you are 10 years with a company without a raise--i would say you should have evaluated that several years ago before it became an issue. (ETA: with either an adjustment at home or looking for better opportunities)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

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Why is it not relevant? It doesn't matter if you're in a minimum wage job or a high paying job or anywhere in between.. The cost of living goes up every year.. So - are you willing to go ten years or more without a raise, COL increase or bonus? The truthful answer would be "No."

The topic at hand is the non-passing of a minimum wage increase.
(here that would be a FT $13,312 per year).


How would that relate to someone who has a $40K job ($19.23/hr) but never gets a raise per this discussion?

 

[Chicago526]

I took an American Government and Politics college course a few years ago, and we had to write a position paper as if we were running for office. I picked increasing the minimum wage as my position. Here as some interesting stats I came across while doing my research. These are direct quotes from my own paper. Some of the inflation numbers may be off a bit since this was writen about 2 years ago, but you get the idea.

The power of the minimum wage has declined over the years, due by Congress’s lack of action to keep the wage in pace with inflation. At its peak in 1968, the then $1.60 minimum wage was worth $8.47 in 2003 dollars. Today’s wage of $5.15 is $3.32 lower than that high.

According to Volunteers of America, 40% of homeless families have at least one working adult. According to the US Conference of Mayors, 22% of all homeless have a job, and 17 out of 25 cities surveyed listed “low wages” as the number one reason for homelessness. This increase does more than help the teenagers working for spending money; according to the Bureau of the Census, 74% of minimum wage earners are adult, 50% work full time and 40% are the sole breadwinner in their family.

This increase (to $7.50 per hour) would bring a family working 80 hours a week from $1404 per month to $1983 per month after taxes, an increase of $579. This could easily mean the difference between being able to by food, and going on stamps. Teens too, would benefit. A teenager that works part-time 20 hours a week could save $12,206 from age 16 to 18, and then earn another $24,412 while in college. The federal and state governments would see increased tax revenue and savings from a lower need of social services as families are able to take better care of themselves.

While the argument of lower profits and layoffs sounds logical, the numbers simply do not support this position. Princeton University did the main study done proving this point. It concluded that not only did employment not suffer due to an increase in minimum wage, but that employment actually increased. Another study done by the Levy Institute surveyed small businesses and showed an increase in jobs for women and teenagers, especially black teenagers. In this same study, only .33% of small businesses surveyed laid off workers after the last increase in 1996-97, and only 6.7% said the last increase affected overall hiring and employment practices.

One way many companies would compensate would be to raise the prices of their products, but the price increase would be minimal in most cases. The U.S. Dept. of Agriculture’s Economic Research Service looked at the effects of higher minimum wages on prices in the food, kindred products and food-service industries. These industries employ a disproportionate share of minimum wage workers and are more likely than other industries to be affected by an increase. The study suggested that a 10% increase in the minimum wage would increase the price of most food and kindred products by less than 1%.

 

[Crankyshank]

Everyone likes to point out that if the person making $5.15 instead made $7 that prices would go up, but no one seems to care that the people making $500,000 a year still get their cost-of-living increases each year. A person with a $500,000 salary who gets a 3% increase gets $15,000 a year. A $2/hr raise for someone making minimum wage is only $4160/year.

That's if they even get a COL increase. And those middle and lower income people that I know that do get one (myself included) are lucky if it's 2%. Forget about an actual col income increase to meet the increase in cost of living.

 

[Charade]

Why is it that only the people opposed to raising the minimum wage are suggesting such unrealistic amounts?

I agree somewhat but the point is, if the minimum wage were raised to some more realistic number, say $8 up from $5.15, that's a nearly 60 percent increase. I don't know how anyone could believe that much of an increase would not affect the goods and services provided by those jobs.

 

[Aidensmom]

Because it is a sliding scale whether you raise it 2 dollars or 1000 given a little time the person who is making that wage will probably be exactly right where they were to begin with. The only difference is that their paycheck says something higher...but their buying power would probably be about the same so the raise really did nothing for them.

Fifteen years ago, the starting pay for my job would have been about half of what it is now. The buying power for the salary then is about that same is it is now, so, basically, it is right back where it was to begin with. So, the minimum pay for the position should never have been raised? My company should not have bothered to give me a raise last year because it didn't increase my buying power? What a bunch of idiots we have in charge of our finances at this company, they could just keep paying us the same forever, think of all the money they could have saved.

It has been YEARS since the minimum wage has been increased, yet pay for other jobs has.

I believe that most people that are capable of increasing their education and making a higher salary do just that. But there are some obstacles. If unemployment is high in an area, the minimum wage jobs may be all that are easily available. People on the lower rungs of the earning scale can't afford to take months to find their perfect, higher paying job. Some people have learning disabilities, and aren't capable of attaining higher education. Some have physical disabilities that prevent them from working a higher paying "skilled laborer" position. Sure, they may not be worth much to the company, and may always hold the lowest paying jobs, but you can't hardly even afford the gas to get to work on $5.15 an hour, much less rent and food. The wage has to be raised eventually, and in my opionion it should have a minimal increase each year, even if it is just 20 cents, so that it does keep up with inflation. Then we wouldn't have to worry about these "huge" $2 raises.

 

[NewJersey]

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Why is it not relevant? It doesn't matter if you're in a minimum wage job or a high paying job or anywhere in between.. The cost of living goes up every year.. So - are you willing to go ten years or more without a raise, COL increase or bonus? The truthful answer would be "No."

No, I wouldn't be okay with that. But the reason that it's irelevant is because a minimum wage and my salary are not related, on the surface (if you increase the wage, then you can say it could force companies to pay other employees less, or pass costs to consumers). So I just didn't see how you could come into a minimum wage increase debate and bring up the fact that "are we happy if our wages don't increase." Maybe I'm just missing the connection that you seem to have. Why would this debate about raising the minimum wage affect my salaried-job?

You asking if I'd be happy not seeing a salary increase is merely to counter my feelings on not raising the minimum wage. Like I said, a whole different debate.

 

[Crankyshank]

Quite a few middle management "well paying" jobs have gone anywhere from 3 to 6 or 7 years without any pay raises. The economy hasn't been very good for many professions since around 2000. I know I'm making pretty much the same amount today than I did in 2000. But we survive and make adjustments.

ITA.
I went 5yrs without a raise. That included a promotion where I should have seen a significant (more than $5/hr) increase in pay that I did not get because there was an income freeze. That income freeze extended to management (but not sales but that's a whole different kettle of fish). That freeze ended last summer with a 2.5% across the board increase.

 

[Olaf]

Here's a good piece on the issue from the CATO Institute.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa106.html

 

[Free4Life11]

And as far as congressional pay goes, they don't make nearly enough. It costs a fortune to live in the DC area, and many of them maintain residences in their districts. As it stands right now, you just about have to be independently wealthy to be a member of Congress.

But I thought we don't pay people on how much it costs to live I thought we pay people on what they are worth, RIGHT? Well most people would say that right now, they ain't worth much! They aren't even in session half the year! No wonder nothing gets done...they get more vacation time than Bush! If they're so hard up, maybe they should get a second job.

Nobody is forcing them to take that job, if they can't afford it than they need to try to find a better job...yada yada, see all of the things people say about minimum wage workers applies to this situation.

 

[Olaf]

But I thought we don't pay people on how much it costs to live I thought we pay people on what they are worth, RIGHT? Well most people would say that right now, they ain't worth much! They aren't even in session half the year! No wonder nothing gets done...they get more vacation time than Bush! If they're so hard up, maybe they should get a second job.

You've made some valid points, however, they're government workers--the free market doesn't apply to them. The alternative is a congress/senate full of millionaires.

As far as "getting stuff done" goes, the less they do on a whole range of issues, the better IMHO.

 

[mrsltg]

Fifteen years ago, the starting pay for my job would have been about half of what it is now. The buying power for the salary then is about that same is it is now, so, basically, it is right back where it was to begin with. So, the minimum pay for the position should never have been raised? My company should not have bothered to give me a raise last year because it didn't increase my buying power? What a bunch of idiots we have in charge of our finances at this company, they could just keep paying us the same forever, think of all the money they could have saved.

It has been YEARS since the minimum wage has been increased, yet pay for other jobs has.

I believe that most people that are capable of increasing their education and making a higher salary do just that. But there are some obstacles. If unemployment is high in an area, the minimum wage jobs may be all that are easily available. People on the lower rungs of the earning scale can't afford to take months to find their perfect, higher paying job. Some people have learning disabilities, and aren't capable of attaining higher education. Some have physical disabilities that prevent them from working a higher paying "skilled laborer" position. Sure, they may not be worth much to the company, and may always hold the lowest paying jobs, but you can't hardly even afford the gas to get to work on $5.15 an hour, much less rent and food. The wage has to be raised eventually, and in my opionion it should have a minimal increase each year, even if it is just 20 cents, so that it does keep up with inflation. Then we wouldn't have to worry about these "huge" $2 raises.

You're completely missing the point. The people in Finance at your company want your company to stay afloat. They are not thinking about John's company or Dan's company. They pay you more each year because if they didn't you would leave. Apparently you have value at your company. You are making your company profitable. They have looked at their market place and determined the salary that you deserve based on your value to them. The Federal government cannot look at McDonald's and determine the value of the person who asks you to supersize. Nor can they look at the cashier at the grocery store and determine how much value they provide to their company. If the company feels their employee deserves a raise they will give one.

Another misconception is the "living wage". It's not a living wage. It's minimum wage. No one said you should be able to support a family on 40 hours a week at KFC. When I graduated from college I worked three jobs to support myself and get ahead. I had drive and determination and so I succeeded. Anyone can do the same - they just have to work. Heck, my housekeeper rolled up to my home in a brand new Highlander last week. Apparently cleaning houses - or enough of them - and doing it well can lead to success.

 

[Chicago526]

Another misconception is the "living wage". It's not a living wage. It's minimum wage. No one said you should be able to support a family on 40 hours a week at KFC. When I graduated from college I worked three jobs to support myself and get ahead. I had drive and determination and so I succeeded. Anyone can do the same - they just have to work. Heck, my housekeeper rolled up to my home in a brand new Highlander last week. Apparently cleaning houses - or enough of them - and doing it well can lead to success.

Here's a question for you. What if, at the time, minimum wage had been higher so you only would have had to work TWO jobs instead of three? Wouldn't that have been easier for you. Not easy, just easier? Or you still work three jobs and are able to pay back student loans faster, or help a younger sibling pay for college, or give money to an ailing parent who needs more than a Social Security check to get by? Your drive and work ethic are still the same, but life is just a tiny bit easier for you, thanks to a paycheck that's a little bit higher.

An increase helps those that ARE working multiple jobs to get by, or get ahead. It doesn't just help "the lazy ones", a rising tide lifts ALL boats.

 

[pooh6890]

Florida's minimum wage is $6.40.

I believe the minimum wage in Florida is $6.15.

 

[Aidensmom]

I believe the minimum wage in Florida is $6.15.

It's 6.40. I believe it was raised January 1.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm#Florida

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Here's a question for you. What if, at the time, minimum wage had been higher so you only would have had to work TWO jobs instead of three? Wouldn't that have been easier for you. Not easy, just easier? Or you still work three jobs and are able to pay back student loans faster, or help a younger sibling pay for college, or give money to an ailing parent who needs more than a Social Security check to get by? Your drive and work ethic are still the same, but life is just a tiny bit easier for you, thanks to a paycheck that's a little bit higher.

An increase helps those that ARE working multiple jobs to get by, or get ahead. It doesn't just help "the lazy ones", a rising tide lifts ALL boats.

An increased minimum wage would not guarantee that they would have had it easier.

That is the point we we are trying to make.