Reneging Renters - Survey

[gblast123]

This is a survey of owner/renters who have had people rent points and then reneg on the purchase.

I suspect that it is much higher than 10% unless you have some sort of immediate payment system.

In my system, I trust people to make the reservation first, then pay later. (Yeh, I know, real smart!!!)

Please use the following formula

Total number of points that people reneged on = X
Total number of points rented in that period =Y

Divide X by Y and multiply by 100 = percentage

Formula X/Y * 100= reneging percentage.

DO NOT POST X OR Y NUMBERS!!! THAT IS YOUR PRIVATE BUSINESS!!!

 

[gblast123]

Mine, because of my trusting system is over 20%

 

[dalt01]

intresting reaction

 

[Dean]

It depends on how you define reneging I guess. I've had exactly two, which should be somewhere under 10%. One was a member of this board, she knows who she is, the other simply got cold feet on the non cancellation clause and backed out before payment. Both were far enough out and in a situation where it didn't cause much issue. I also had one cancel the day of arrival but had paid all ahead and the loss was theirs. I did have one not put down a credit card and left a few $$$ in phone charges. OTOH, I've had many people inquire all gun ho and then never follow up. I simply refuse to check availability until I have a commitment. And I never borrow points specific for a reservation without having at least a deposit in hand.

 

[Cruelladeville]

I'm with Dean on this issue--I have not had many people reneg once we have an agreement, but I have had tons of people who are gung-ho about renting, and then never do anything about it. I also refuse to check on availability until we have a pretty firm agreement. I require a down payment within 48 hours. I have had one renter from this board who (I think) tried to run a scam. I talked with her several times about renting--she would take all the points I had that were transferrable to her account. She sent the cash thru PayPal, except she didn't, after she thought she had the points. I was fortuneate that MS closed exactly on-time that evening, saving 350 pts.

 

[gblast123]

Cruella, if you had rented out 3500 points, then your 350 that was reneged on would have put you at the 10% mark.

The same with the other posters. When you look at the total number of points at risk, one reneging renter of 100 points can put you over 10% unless you rent out more than 1000 points. Not too many people rent out over 1000 points in any given period.

I define reneging renter as someone who agrees with you on price, then you make a reservation, then they back out for any reason.

Someone who calls or emails but doesn't commit to buying is simply a shopper/bargain hunter. Although I don't like it, I have no intrinsic problem with that since that is the current system we have.

I think that the owners should think about fixing that problem.

 

[isyt]

I have been very fortunate, 25-30 times I have rented or transferred and never a problem (I am knocking on wood!) ! I have had people inquire about availability and I have no problem checking or getting options for them. This is always a 2 way street. The renters need to trust us and I always try to ease their anxiety about giving strangers tons of money! I am sure my attitude would change if I got burned but until then.......

 

[dalt01]

guess that means i cant count on you for my rental points next year

 

[JimMIA]

It might be more helpful to focus on what WORKS in renting...both from the renter's perspective and the owner's.

I suspect that more people would be interested in what does work than what doesn't.

 

[Muushka]

I have only rented 3 times, and all 3 were a pleasure.

What worked for me (past tense, I will not rent points to non-members, due to the stuff I hear about what is being done to members):

I rented to people who knew exactly what they wanted. Exact dates, size of units and how many points they were going to use. That said to me that they were willing to do their homework and not rely on the member to hold their hand. I also had open communication with them. Primarily email. A relationship was established immediately. Also, they had been on the boards for a while.

I have had one renter from this board who (I think) tried to run a scam. I talked with her several times about renting--she would take all the points I had that were transferrable to her account. She sent the cash thru PayPal, except she didn't, after she thought she had the points. I was fortuneate that MS closed exactly on-time that evening, saving 350 pts.

Cruelladeville, this is a NIGHTMARE. I hope this person has stopped this type of behavior. Unbelievable.

 

[ZachnElli]

Using your formula I'm at 104%. If I just use those with payments received, it's 28%. I'm sure that according to everyone who's never had a problem renting I must be doing something wrong. Because I have ESP and can tell when someone is going to reneg just through a few emails.

 

[JimMIA]

David -- Trying to re-start a fight the mods have already locked on another thread is not the way to their hearts.

Also, I tried to reply to your PM, but your folders are full. I think you completely misunderstood my comments on the other thread. I was not supporting you -- I was trying to hint that you might want to tone things down a bunch.

 

[spiceycat]

both times I had some one cancel - I didn't make the reservation for them.

both times I made the reservation for me.

then one time a person asked for those days and since I had them - allowed them to start the rental.... then they cancel but I could rerent them. So I could refund their money.

another time my brother cancelled (I know one day I will learn and never make another reservation for them) and the first guy wanted me to change it - yea right - it was standard view BWV for Thanksgiving week and this was in Oct..... so I don't consider that one a rental...

so I guess my reneging renters are less than 10%.

now if you are talking about the ones I have made for my brother - well that would be around 60%.... but I have never charged him so I don't consider those rentals...

oh I don't do the DVC rental/trade boards here unless it is a cancelation.

other people are less likely to argue price with you.

www.redweek.com
www.myresortnetwork.com

but lately people have been asking me for my points. So I don't advertise - that doesn't mean I won't - but right now I don't need too.

 

[dalt01]

wow, this needs closed also, and someone needs a time out

 

[Anewman]

What exactly is the definition of "reneged"?

If one inquires about a date but chooses not to book?
If dates are available but renter passes on them?
Reservation booked but renter passes well b4 any cancellation deadlines?
Money changes hands but refund is requested well b4 any holding or banking deadlines?
Reservation booked but cancelled resulting in Holding of points?
Cancellation of points resulting in loss of points?

IMO all of the above are the price of doing BUSINESS.

 

[dizzynee]

Cancellation of points resulting in loss of points?

IMO all of the above are the price of doing BUSINESS.

really?

yikes.

 

[JimMIA]

Reservation booked but cancelled resulting in Holding of points?
Cancellation of points resulting in loss of points?

IMO all of the above are the price of doing BUSINESS.

Yep, I'd agree that those are the cost of doing business...very badly.

Any owner who lets themselves get points in Holding, or loses points entirely, has to have been sound asleep at the switch! Those losses are 100% self-inflicted.

Just for the record, the OP defined what he meant earlier. He was talking about situations where an agreement was made, a ressie was made persuant to that agreement, and then the renter backed out for any reason.

 

[JimMIA]

What exactly is the definition of "reneged"?

If one inquires about a date but chooses not to book?
If dates are available but renter passes on them?

These, I would also agree are a normal cost of doing business.

Reservation booked but renter passes well b4 any cancellation deadlines?
Money changes hands but refund is requested well b4 any holding or banking deadlines?

These two, I would say are the renter's bad, even if the owner does not suffer any loss in the long run. The owner has encumbered their points -- with the renter's full consent -- and then the renter changed their mind.

I'm not saying off with their heads, but in these situations, I think the burden of the change in plans should rightly fall on the shoulders of the renter. At a minimum, the renter's change of heart has put the owner in a spot where they have to do more work to avoid losing their points. These are the types of situations where both parties are well-served by very clear understandings of what the owner's policies are in such circumstances. These are also the situations where I think a lot of owners do both parties a disservice by telling the renter, "Don't worry, if you have a problem, we'll work it out." They may not be able to work anything out.

I am fully aware that stuff happens and there are legitimate reasons why someone has to cancel a ressie. But there are ways for a prudent consumer to protect themselves against those possibilities. IMHO, it is not the responsibility of the owner to protect the renter from every possible eventuality in the renter's life.

 

[gblast123]

What exactly is the definition of "reneged"?

If one inquires about a date but chooses not to book?
If dates are available but renter passes on them?
Reservation booked but renter passes well b4 any cancellation deadlines?
Money changes hands but refund is requested well b4 any holding or banking deadlines?
Reservation booked but cancelled resulting in Holding of points?
Cancellation of points resulting in loss of points?

IMO all of the above are the price of doing BUSINESS.

I defined this in my first post.

Question: Do you feel that it is appropriate and ethical for someone to do any of the above?

If it happened to you, would you feel good about it?

 

[Chuck S]

The owner is in control of the situation once the ressie is booked and the renter has made a deposit. If I rented points, a contract would include:

If one inquires about a date but chooses not to book? - No problem

If dates are available but renter passes on them? - No Problem

Reservation booked but renter passes well b4 any cancellation deadlines? - Deadlines are set by owner. Owner could (and should) require a non-refundable deposit within a week or two of booking the ressie.

Money changes hands but refund is requested well b4 any holding or banking deadlines? - Owner should have a non-refundable deposit

Reservation booked but cancelled resulting in Holding of points? - Rental should be paid in full 45 days out. If canceled after that renter does not get any refund at all. That way, no actual "loss" occurs to the owner.

Cancellation of points resulting in loss of points? - Same as above -Rental should be paid in full 45 days out. If canceled after that renter does not get any refund at all. That way, no actual "loss" occurs to the owner.

That being said, I don't rent my points, but have given them to friends and family. I have been "burned" twice by cancellations, once I simply invited other people and they used the ressie. In the second case, I simply had a studio all to myself instead of sharing with Mom (Originally, Mom & I were sharing a studio, and a cousin was in a 2nd studio, cousin canceled last minute). In all cases, unless it were an actual emergency, those that cancel are not invited again, ever. And they are aware of that stipulation from the beginning.