Refuse to give Disney your Finger-print?

[TheDisneyClan]

OP, please get a life. There are bigger and badder things to worry about...seriously.

Wait...Let me get this straight.. You are taking time out of your day, reading threads you seemingly have no concern for, and telling someone else to get a life.?

Reminds me of the IRONY lesson I got in 7th grade English class.

By the way, not worried about it all. Just wondered how others felt on the subject and thought that was purpose of the message board....To exchange thoughts with others. Sheesh

You will notice that never did I:

A) Tell anyone who wants to scan thier finger, not to
B) Insist that Disney change their policy

Instead I simply pointed out that the practice of scanning my finger was objectionable to me and inquire as to how others felt about this voluntary policy.

Its really nothing to worry about, since it is a voluntary policy and anybody can opt out for any reason, just as my family does.

What I find most amuzing about this entire thread - is the anger and hostility many seem to direct towards folks who follow Disney policy by having their ID ready rather then place their fingers into the scanners.

But despite a few rude folks, I think this for the most part has been a very interesting dialogue to say the least

 

[TheDisneyClan]

Originally Posted by need_a_Disney_fix
OP, please get a life. There are bigger and badder things to worry about...seriously.

Another lesson in irony??

Still here you are... on page 16... at post number 200 and something..... still inserting silly faces into the dialogue.



Did I mention that the policy is just voluntary?? LOL

 

[Andy B]

For an exact, specific enumeration of WHY I dislike the finger scan, see my post #76 at the top of Page 6 in this thread. I'm not being superior, I'm just saying, I already answered that question at least twice already - see my previous posts for the answer.

You may have put why you dislike the finger scan but just because you refer to another post does not mean you have answered my point. But thats OK you don't have to it's just a discussion. None of the points raised has anything to do with the information of the finger scan. Keeping names and address, credit card and movement information safe is understandable but all that is alligned to the tickets you will swipe going into the park not with your fingerscan.

 

[DisneyWorldWisher]

Is this a religious thing?

I heard some religious branches don't like to give up their fingerprints...

 

[fla4fun]

Sure, the old photo passes they used to use worked, but it would be more expensive for everyone. Hmmm...I guess if someone had a twin, they could fake it, but otherwise, it did work.

The only problem is that this method is not quick and easy. I remember the days of the photo on the pass. It took us a half hour or more to get our tickets. Then at the gate, you handed your ticket to a cast member, who looked at the ticket, looked at you, decided if it was a "match" and then the cast member swiped the ticket and handed it back to you. The lines were awful. So I'm not sure photos are the way to go, and I know Disney won't go back to having a cast member at each turnstile to swipe the tickets.

It's really too bad that people couldn't get the hang of the two finger scanners. Those definitely didn't take fingerprints - just measurements of specific points on your hand. I never had a problem getting it to work, but for some reason, a lot of people did. I just can't think of an easy way to keep people from being able to share tickets that won't hold the lines up forever getting into the parks.

 

[Boomer1]

Lots of replies quick! LOL

My personal concern is just a really a personal preference.

Not paranoid at all, I just object to providing Disney with the same info that the FBI would ask for..LOL

From an article from the Medill School of Journalism Northwestern University

However, the use of this technology has riled privacy advocates, who believe Disney has not fully disclosed the purpose of its new system. There are no signs posted at the entrance detailing what information is being collected and how it is being used. Attendants at the entrance will explain the system, if asked.

“The lack of transparency has always been a problem,” said Lillie Coney, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, who added that Disney's use of technology "fails a proportionality test" by requiring too much personal information for theme park access.

"What they're doing is taking a technology that was used to control access to high-level security venues and they're applying it to controlling access to a theme park," Coney said.

"It's impossible for them to convince me that all they are getting is the fact that that person is the ticket-holder," said George Crossley, president of the Central Florida ACLU.



There have been hundreds of articles written about this. And anytime you have Republicans, Democrats, Indy's, Conservative think tanks, Liberal think tanks, the Religous right, and the ACLU all saying that something is fishy, well then I just personally error on side of caution and will not participate.

Besides, we get through the turnstyles more quickly refusing than those folks who actually put their fingers in the scanners.

Was not trying to offend anyone. We just get a creepy feeling about the policy and wondered how other people felt. I know there are thousands upon thousands of other guests who refuse the scans, but even if it was just our family that refused, that would be okay also.

My final opinion is that as quoted above the OP is uncomfortable with giving biometric information to WDW. As an added benefit they get through the turnsyles more quickly. I can understand and respect your right to do this as does WDW. It is a sad commentary on our world today that we now fear and protect ourselves from not only theives who would pick your locks, pick your pocket, smash and grab to get your belongings , but also electronically steal your identity. I have asked the CM about why they ask for your finger scan and was told it was to prevent persons other than the original purchaser from using the pass. I accept this explanation and hope it protects me from those who might steal my very valuable AP. I also take the same risk whenever I choose to use my credit card. That being said I appreciate the discussion that has happened here. I have considered all the arguments and am wiser for it. When my pennies are all saved and I finally get to WDW in December for my much anticipated vacation, will I have my finger scanned? Probably!

 

[WillCAD]

You may have put why you dislike the finger scan but just because you refer to another post does not mean you have answered my point. But thats OK you don't have to it's just a discussion. None of the points raised has anything to do with the information of the finger scan. Keeping names and address, credit card and movement information safe is understandable but all that is alligned to the tickets you will swipe going into the park not with your fingerscan.

Then let me answer your question directly once again:

Since they started this biometric mumbo-jumbo, I have knuckled under for the sake of convenience. But I don't like it, and here's why:

The finger scan, whether it is a "picture" of my fingerprint, or an algorithm, or whatever, is demonstrably one thing - a unique set of numbers about my fingerprint that the WDW computer can - and does - use to specifically identify ME among the millions of other Guests who also have WDW tickets. It's done to prevent me from using someone elses ticket, and to prevent anyone else from using mine.

Okay, so whatever KIND of ID the biometric saves, it's definitely an ID unique to me.

Now, when I stay on-site and have my ticket coded onto my KTTW card, that unique identifier is linked to my name in the WDW computer system. And linked to my name is a file containing all the info WDW has about me fromall the on-site stays I have ever had - this info includes my name, address, home phone number, credit card numbers for any cards I have used to pay for my ressies, the dates of my all my ressies, any charges I make on my KTTW cards, the dates and times of any ADRs I have ever made under my name, and even the dates and times I entered every WDW park on any tickets I ever had coded on my KTTW cards.

That is sensitive info. Do I think Disney is going to do something neffarious with it? Of course not. But in the post-9/11 climate of fear and paranoia in the US, the US government can and does demand all sorts of sensitive info from private companies (sometimes with and sometimes without supoenas or warrants). Google search terms and Verizon phone records have been highly publicized as being demanded, as well as customer records and surfing habits from many national ISPs. Is it a stretch to think that Homeland Security might "request" Disney to turn over the customer database at some point to track a suspected terrorist?

And once the government has this info, they will lose it. The VA has lost laptops, and last week the TSA lost a laptop, with tens of thousands of private citizens' personal info on them.

"But you're already at risk," someone will argue. "Credit card companies and online vendors have all sorts of info about you, and they get hacked by identity theives all the time." That's certainly true, but the fact that you are constantly in danger of being in a car crash does not mean that you should simply give up on the concept of staying on the right side of the road.

There is always risk in life. Trying to eliminate risk is a fool's errand, but it is only prudent to take reasonable precautions, and to avoid the worst and riskiest behavior. Simple things like not mentioning your home address or phone number on the DIS boards, not accepting rides from strangers, not allowing your 6-year old to walk to school alone, and not automatically giving out any and all personal information that any company demands it, are reasonable precautions.

The whole fingerscan at WDW is not as big a risk as broadcasting your home address over the internet, but it's one of those things that seems unnecessary and somewhat excessive for its purpose. And it's just one of many such minor instances of private companies or government agencies assembling databases of personal, private information.

Sure, they all say they're going to keep that info safe and never use it for anything bad, but considering the number of companies and government agencies who have had vital customer info lost, stolen, or hacked in the last few years, well... let's just say that some natural skepticism as to the purity of all human motives has come and sat upon my chest.

 

[12kizuna]

What I'm confused about, is why people keep thinking it's such specific data when several people have posted about being able to get in with their significant other's tickets, etc. It measures the width of the finger (and certain points?) that could be the same on someone else's. It's not necessarily picking you out among millions of people, but it helps.

Another thing that amazes me, is how people think that if someone "hacks the system", then those couple of numbers identifying your finger (NOT a scan, not even anything that could be of any USE to ANYbody!!!) will automatically give away your credit card # etc. etc. etc being linked to it. Is it just me, or does Disney have that info in their system already without a couple dumb numbers assigned to it? With or without those numbers, it probably won't help any hackers to access your information any more than if you didn't put your finger on the harmless little thing.

I understand if people who are a little behind on technology are uncomfortable with it, or if they just plain don't want to for some reason, but the reasons I have seen on this board have seemed a little short of logical. But that's my opinion. I also have not seen, with the exception of a couple of posts on here, much hostility- not anymore than the OP themself has put forth. I simply see a lot of bewildered people, and those who take offense at their responses.
I understand your point of it being completely non-mandatory, OP, and I completely respect it... I am just a little unnerved by your snarky responses to some of the people who may or may not have meant harm. I also am starting to feel like it was an attempt to boast for some reason, or why otherwise did you start the topic? Did you honestly think that it would provoke anything less than a "heated" discussion (though personally I wouldn't call this heated, just popular at the moment.)
Edited to add:
I'm also a little confused that if this was just supposed to be about what we thought of the policy, then why bring in all of the completely unrelated things like the children with chips in their heads? I kind of didn't get what the point was in trying to bring in all of these other points to say what a horrible world we live in now.

 

[jctwizzer]

Another lesson in irony??

Yet another lesson in irony: Seeking opinions on a subject, then getting distraught when the responses don't
agree with your opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Idroveallnight]

Scan away I say!
It doesn't make me or my family uncomfortable! My DS cannot wait until he has to be scanned like everyone else!

 

[Cinderella1122]

I have been to several theme parks, other than disney, who now use the fingerprint scan. I have never even stop to think that the process could be objectionable. I just want to get into the parks so I can have my fun

 

[kalidk]

Ok I asked a CM (a CM with a "title") and this is what I heard. The scanning they are doing is a test...If I remember correctly it has something to do with getting tickets in the future (Jetson's like). I thought it was about terrorism and he said No. Its a test for future ticketing. Now This is from my memory bank which at the moment is in Disney overdrive because I am leaving in 17 days. All I can think about it fastpasses, wishes, and cakes in Epcot. But I think I am correct here. So scan your fingers and dance
Bless
Kal

 

[Lisa Hale]

Ok I asked a CM (a CM with a "title") and this is what I heard. The scanning they are doing is a test...If I remember correctly it has something to do with getting tickets in the future (Jetson's like). I thought it was about terrorism and he said No. Its a test for future ticketing. Now This is from my memory bank which at the moment is in Disney overdrive because I am leaving in 17 days. All I can think about it fastpasses, wishes, and cakes in Epcot. But I think I am correct here. So scan your fingers and dance
Bless
Kal

Uh oh... this opens a whole new can of worms . . . when you talk about "testing" for the future - Jetson style (i.e. future, space, possible aliens) . . . are there probes of any type involved later on??? I mean... finger scans are one thing, but . . .

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

Wait...Let me get this straight.. You are taking time out of your day, reading threads you seemingly have no concern for, and telling someone else to get a life.?

Reminds me of the IRONY lesson I got in 7th grade English class.

By the way, not worried about it all. Just wondered how others felt on the subject and thought that was purpose of the message board....To exchange thoughts with others. Sheesh

You will notice that never did I:

A) Tell anyone who wants to scan thier finger, not to
B) Insist that Disney change their policy

Instead I simply pointed out that the practice of scanning my finger was objectionable to me and inquire as to how others felt about this voluntary policy.

Its really nothing to worry about, since it is a voluntary policy and anybody can opt out for any reason, just as my family does.

What I find most amuzing about this entire thread - is the anger and hostility many seem to direct towards folks who follow Disney policy by having their ID ready rather then place their fingers into the scanners.

But despite a few rude folks, I think this for the most part has been a very interesting dialogue to say the least

Oh don't worry, I do have a life and only read your first post. I heard about this thread and just had to check it out. I now feel I wasted my time even coming here. BTW, you still need to find that life.

 

[F4disneyfan]

Lots of replies quick! LOL

My personal concern is just a really a personal preference.

Not paranoid at all, I just object to providing Disney with the same info that the FBI would ask for..LOL

From an article from the Medill School of Journalism Northwestern University

However, the use of this technology has riled privacy advocates, who believe Disney has not fully disclosed the purpose of its new system. There are no signs posted at the entrance detailing what information is being collected and how it is being used. Attendants at the entrance will explain the system, if asked.

“The lack of transparency has always been a problem,” said Lillie Coney, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, who added that Disney's use of technology "fails a proportionality test" by requiring too much personal information for theme park access.

"What they're doing is taking a technology that was used to control access to high-level security venues and they're applying it to controlling access to a theme park," Coney said.

"It's impossible for them to convince me that all they are getting is the fact that that person is the ticket-holder," said George Crossley, president of the Central Florida ACLU.



There have been hundreds of articles written about this. And anytime you have Republicans, Democrats, Indy's, Conservative think tanks, Liberal think tanks, the Religous right, and the ACLU all saying that something is fishy, well then I just personally error on side of caution and will not participate.

Besides, we get through the turnstyles more quickly refusing than those folks who actually put their fingers in the scanners.

Was not trying to offend anyone. We just get a creepy feeling about the policy and wondered how other people felt. I know there are thousands upon thousands of other guests who refuse the scans, but even if it was just our family that refused, that would be okay also.

So then you should object to your government fingerprinting people that want to enter your country then because that just seems fishy to me. That is why teh move of the US customs office to Canadian soil was not done because your government wanted to fingerprint people walking up and asking for info and Canada told them no way no how.

 

[sticker231]

quickly jumping to the last page........

my question is where is the dead horse? every time someone posts like this, everyone flames them and it is a long post. It has been "discussed" so many times, it gets old fast. 17 pages come on now!

 

[Andy B]

Then let me answer your question directly once again:

Since they started this biometric mumbo-jumbo, I have knuckled under for the sake of convenience. But I don't like it, and here's why:

The finger scan, whether it is a "picture" of my fingerprint, or an algorithm, or whatever, is demonstrably one thing - a unique set of numbers about my fingerprint that the WDW computer can - and does - use to specifically identify ME among the millions of other Guests who also have WDW tickets. It's done to prevent me from using someone elses ticket, and to prevent anyone else from using mine.

Okay, so whatever KIND of ID the biometric saves, it's definitely an ID unique to me.

Now, when I stay on-site and have my ticket coded onto my KTTW card, that unique identifier is linked to my name in the WDW computer system. And linked to my name is a file containing all the info WDW has about me fromall the on-site stays I have ever had - this info includes my name, address, home phone number, credit card numbers for any cards I have used to pay for my ressies, the dates of my all my ressies, any charges I make on my KTTW cards, the dates and times of any ADRs I have ever made under my name, and even the dates and times I entered every WDW park on any tickets I ever had coded on my KTTW cards.

That is sensitive info. Do I think Disney is going to do something neffarious with it? Of course not. But in the post-9/11 climate of fear and paranoia in the US, the US government can and does demand all sorts of sensitive info from private companies (sometimes with and sometimes without supoenas or warrants). Google search terms and Verizon phone records have been highly publicized as being demanded, as well as customer records and surfing habits from many national ISPs. Is it a stretch to think that Homeland Security might "request" Disney to turn over the customer database at some point to track a suspected terrorist?

And once the government has this info, they will lose it. The VA has lost laptops, and last week the TSA lost a laptop, with tens of thousands of private citizens' personal info on them.

"But you're already at risk," someone will argue. "Credit card companies and online vendors have all sorts of info about you, and they get hacked by identity theives all the time." That's certainly true, but the fact that you are constantly in danger of being in a car crash does not mean that you should simply give up on the concept of staying on the right side of the road.

There is always risk in life. Trying to eliminate risk is a fool's errand, but it is only prudent to take reasonable precautions, and to avoid the worst and riskiest behavior. Simple things like not mentioning your home address or phone number on the DIS boards, not accepting rides from strangers, not allowing your 6-year old to walk to school alone, and not automatically giving out any and all personal information that any company demands it, are reasonable precautions.

The whole fingerscan at WDW is not as big a risk as broadcasting your home address over the internet, but it's one of those things that seems unnecessary and somewhat excessive for its purpose. And it's just one of many such minor instances of private companies or government agencies assembling databases of personal, private information.

Sure, they all say they're going to keep that info safe and never use it for anything bad, but considering the number of companies and government agencies who have had vital customer info lost, stolen, or hacked in the last few years, well... let's just say that some natural skepticism as to the purity of all human motives has come and sat upon my chest.

Yes it identifies you but is not a fingerprint scan but a finger scan, then the rest of your long reasoning has again nothing to do with the finger scan or how that could be used somewhere else.

 

[Andy B]

quickly jumping to the last page........

my question is where is the dead horse? every time someone posts like this, everyone flames them and it is a long post. It has been "discussed" so many times, it gets old fast. 17 pages come on now!

If it's a such a dead horse why bother making it longer by posting?

 

[WillCAD]

What I'm confused about, is why people keep thinking it's such specific data when several people have posted about being able to get in with their significant other's tickets, etc. It measures the width of the finger (and certain points?) that could be the same on someone else's. It's not necessarily picking you out among millions of people, but it helps.

You are indeed a little confused, but given the complexity of this topic that's perfectly understandable.

The old two-finger scanner measures bone density.

The new one-finger scanner is actually a visual scanner that takes a sort of "picture" of your finger (much like a digital camera, or the desktop scanner you have at home for scanning your pics and documents). But the "picture" it takes is not saved; the "picture" is used to derrive a unique numeric code representing your fingerprint. It's this code that is saved, partly because the code is the only important data and partly because this code takes a tiny fraction of the memory storage that an actual bitmap "picture" of your fingerprint would take to store.

Another thing that amazes me, is how people think that if someone "hacks the system", then those couple of numbers identifying your finger (NOT a scan, not even anything that could be of any USE to ANYbody!!!) will automatically give away your credit card # etc. etc. etc being linked to it. Is it just me, or does Disney have that info in their system already without a couple dumb numbers assigned to it? With or without those numbers, it probably won't help any hackers to access your information any more than if you didn't put your finger on the harmless little thing.

They won't. That identifier is useless to anyone trying to hack Disney's computers to steal sensitive personal info from Guests.

However, that identifier WOULD be useful to DHS, because they can use it to mach up with on-file fingerprints to track criminals or suspected terrorists. See, law enforcement doesn't hold up a picture of one fingerprint to a picture of another fingerprint to see if they match; instead, they use software to derrive a unique numeric code representing the fingerprint, then use search software to find prints with similar numeric codes.

As such, the codes are the only important part, and since Disney DOES store the codes until 30 days after a particular ticket is expired or used up, DHS could theoretically supoena Disney's database of finger codes so that they could track bad guys.

Okay, now you have a match - a bad guy's fingerprint code from the FBI database is found in Disney's database. Bingo! Except that it's useless unless you can pull the bad guy's other info (the name, address, phone number, and credit card number he used in booking his ressies) from the database as well.

Being the upstanding, consioentious company that they are (I am NOT being sarcastic here!), Disney would naturally know this and would have turned over the entire database, including all the sensitive personal info, along with the fingerprint code data. Now DHS can track down the bad guy from that info.

The problem I have is that this would mean that DHS would now have ALL of our personal info on their computers - and the Federal government has an abysmal record of keeping citizens' personal info secure and private. That puts us all in danger of identity theft, fraud, etc.

I understand if people who are a little behind on technology are uncomfortable with it, or if they just plain don't want to for some reason, but the reasons I have seen on this board have seemed a little short of logical. But that's my opinion. I also have not seen, with the exception of a couple of posts on here, much hostility- not anymore than the OP themself has put forth. I simply see a lot of bewildered people, and those who take offense at their responses.
I understand your point of it being completely non-mandatory, OP, and I completely respect it... I am just a little unnerved by your snarky responses to some of the people who may or may not have meant harm. I also am starting to feel like it was an attempt to boast for some reason, or why otherwise did you start the topic? Did you honestly think that it would provoke anything less than a "heated" discussion (though personally I wouldn't call this heated, just popular at the moment.)

I've seen such words and phrases as "paranoid", "conspiracy theorist", "lighten up", "get a life", and "too much time on your hands" in this thread directed at those of us who are expressing legitimate concern over the security of our sensitive personal info. Wouldn't you call that hostile? I would; the use of cute smilies doesn't mitigate the hostility.

Edited to add:
I'm also a little confused that if this was just supposed to be about what we thought of the policy, then why bring in all of the completely unrelated things like the children with chips in their heads? I kind of didn't get what the point was in trying to bring in all of these other points to say what a horrible world we live in now.

I personally don't think the world is any more horrible than it was 50 years ago, 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago; but we're all much more connected by communications technology now, which makes it possible for us to see the most horrible parts of the world on our TVs and computers on a daily basis. But that's neither here nor there.

The point of my posts in this thread have all been that:

1) I am uncomfortable with the finger scan (for the reasons I listed above).
2) I do it anyway so I can get into the parks easier and quicker.

 

[xyzabc33]

Now, when I stay on-site and have my ticket coded onto my KTTW card, that unique identifier is linked to my name in the WDW computer system. And linked to my name is a file containing all the info WDW has about me fromall the on-site stays I have ever had - this info includes my name, address, home phone number, credit card numbers for any cards I have used to pay for my ressies, the dates of my all my ressies, any charges I make on my KTTW cards, the dates and times of any ADRs I have ever made under my name, and even the dates and times I entered every WDW park on any tickets I ever had coded on my KTTW cards.

I quoted this part of your post (and others have said something similar) because not many ppl are aware that you CAN have your tickets given to you seperately then your room card. They will be issued as a paper ticket then you have to go activate them at the first park you go to. Then you will be issued a card that only has your park tickets on them. A little more inconvience then having everything on one card and no worries to those of you concerned that "you can be tracked" .

I am sure this is not a common procedure so you will probably have to ask more then one CM. I am sure that Disney does not advise this because if you lose that voucher before you get to the park--you are "up the creek without a paddle" Also they prob dont like to do this on a regular basis because there is more of a risk that an unscrupulous person may take that voucher and sell it. Hence the finger SCANS (NOT PRINTS) to protect your tickets.

I have asked about this just this past week because I was going to purchase an AP and didnt know what to do with the one day ticket that was already on my package. I did find out I can apply that one day to my AP cost so it will still work out the same in a way. I will be issued a paper ticket that I have to go activate at the first park I enter.

Uh oh... this opens a whole new can of worms . . . when you talk about "testing" for the future - Jetson style (i.e. future, space, possible aliens) . . . are there probes of any type involved later on??? I mean... finger scans are one thing, but . . .

THE ALIENS!!!!! THE ALIENS ARE COMING TO GET ME! They will probe my brain and do unspeakable things to my body parts before releasing me with big chunks of my memory missing. And I hear tell they remove your fingerprints so you no longer can cash a check or enter amusement parks.


Seriously tho...It is just a finger SCAN. Temporary and not as accessible to personal information as posting on the internet (hackers..ya know) While I respect other's decisions to not do this, I just think there are other more important things in this world that need worried about. I'd have a major ulcer if I stressed about the little stuff.

OH...BTW...for those worried that they are getting germs..They do clean those things. Last time I went, one of the ticket CM's was just finishing wiping the one we were walking up to. Keep in mind the time it would take to clean after every person...geez the lines would be out the front arch into Orlando.