Reflections on the 100 Year Celebrations

[YoHo]

When I got done laughing at the Pirate's little joke, I came up and realized that In some sense I agree with Landbaron. You're right that Walt didn't want to be celebrated or glorified, so then, is the answer to get in bed with the sales staff? He didn't want us to celebrate him, so instead of something tasteful, lets be sleazy? This should be the biggest party ever in Disney history, yet Its about as exciting as the Korean folding table in the old Millenium village. And they're marketing the heck out of it to boot.

 

[Another Voice]

“Being critical of something before seeing it again seems to be premature and more along the lines of the person going around "just looking for trouble".”

Actually, judging something before it’s built is called “designing” and “planning”. The reason people write scripts, make illustrations, go through rehearsals, and generally bother with all the messy bits the audience never sees is to insure that the final product is good. Everything that you see has been “criticized” thousands of times before the final product was “seen”. How imprudent!! Because you have to make judgments before you see the finished product so you can actually make the finished product.

On a more practical side, how many steel workers are going to drop the five grand for the family visit to WDW before they make a judgment if the parades are enjoyable or not? “I know it’s expensive honey, but how can we decide if we want to fix up the old car or take a family vacation until we know if we really like the Big Hat or not?”. The whole point of marketing and promotion is to give people the information they need to be critical of something BEFORE they see it. If the marketing is done well, people will be favorably inclined. At this point, however, the dominant image of the “celebration” is of a guy in a mouse suit riding on a large replica of the snow globe you can buy at the mall. I really hope it gets better, I really do. If the “celebration” seem under whelming to many of The Company’s biggest fans, how do they appear to the “average person”?

And flipping the argument around – how can you judge that ‘Mission:Space’ is going to be a GOOD attraction without having the experience first? How do you it’s NOT going to be bad. Are you, perhaps, making an opinion on the plans you’ve heard about, the Company’s reputation, and their past history? And if you “keep an open mind” and not make any decisions, does that means that plans and reputations mean nothing and you’re completely willing to spend money without making any kind of judgment beforehand? If all audiences were that easy to get into the theater…

P.S. – I agree with Mr. Pirate. While Walt didn’t want the trappings of fame, he sure wasn’t above lending his name to a “good cause”.

 

[Another Voice]

I really don’t ever remember saying any of the four new parades will “suck”. In fact, I don’t think I’ve commented on their quality one way or the other. I have written that I think four parades and a shop/hat is a poor celebration for the man who founded the company and pioneered so much of today’s media. And I have written that the parade at the Magic Kingdom seems to have an overly commercial aspect to it – that was both confirmed by the company and through the recent ads. But I am questioning the celebration’s motives, not its quality. Those are two vastly different subjects. A movie can start with the best of intentions and end up a stinker – just as skillfully created one can be evil at its core. I hope that my comments on one facet of an issue and not transferred automatically to another facet of the issue.

Your movie trailer analogy is dead on center. Whether the parades are good or not is irrelevant if no one sees them. People make judgments all the time based on only partial information – ads, trailers, brochures, friend’s opinions, billboards, brand names, and scores of other sources. I am certain that you don’t feel it’s necessary to see every movie that’s released every week. You make a decision based on what you think and feel. Occasionally, we are surprised when out initial perception turns out to be wrong. And that’s nice when it’s positive and when you spent just $7.50. But can you honestly expect that someone is going to take that same risk on a $3,500 vacation package? From what we have seen so far, are many people compelled to plunk down the MasterCard and book that room at the Polynesian? Perhaps we’ll all be surprised in a month – but it’s Disney’s job to get us excited about the event and to earn our business, not simply to expect our business.

[humor]
P.S. – One of the works I have developed over the years is a set of Movie Laws much like the laws of physics. The first Law is that “the quality of any given trailer times the quality of the full movie itself equals a constant”. Thus, as one increases the other must decrease. In practical application: great trailer = bad movie , bad trailer = great movie.
[/humor]

 

[JeffJewell]

this "Disney sucks" because the "parades will suck" and "everything else sucks, sucks, sucks"

...is there any chance that you could limit your pontification to those statments that someone actually made?

There are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales. No where, except in your posts, have the parades been described as sucking.

Watch the parades, then critique

We're not critiquing the parades, we're critiquing the demonstrated emphasis of the celebration.

I notice that AV made a good point about your talking up the attractions without experiencing them, and wondering how that's much different than others talking them down without experiencing them. I also notice you avoided that point as if addressing it might give you Mad Cow disease...

Go ahead, folks, say it all sucks. That's fine. And certainly not surprising.

Go ahead, other folks, argue with statements no one ever made. That's fine. And certainly not surprising.

Jeff

 

[Peter Pirate]

I can't wait to see the Parades, I think they will be a great addition to my Park experience. Whether they should have been done apart of the Walt's Birthday celebration is besides the point to me. That they are bring done is the point and if they are good, or great then that is wonderful.

Further, aside from Scoop, I guess I am the only one really looking forward to Dino-Rama. The new small mouse coaster, by all accounts will be fun, the atmosphere projected by the carney games may be so 'kitschy' that it becomes fun. Walt used to do this all of the time, think of Jungle Cruise or Small world. Certainly even back in 1955 these ideas were meant to be taken with toungue firmly in cheek (and smile firmly on face). If you want to see these things as money making events only, well that is fine, but virtually everything The Disney Company has ever done, including Walt & Roy was guilty of the same thing. They never said they were benevolent (and they never were) and while they were certainly more imaginitive, conceptual & less blatent, the end result still had to be the same ($$$).

Perhaps Dinoland will be a big bust and I will be very sad, but I'll wait until that time that I actually know it's no good before I put on the gloomy puss! Perhaps the Parades and the kiosks and the Pin Trading events will appear shallow...Pehaps not...But I am looking forward to seeing it all, just like always...Rose Colored glasses firmly in place, thank you!

 

[JeffJewell]

For example, Jeff Jewell, you've posted several times that space is just going to be a spinner.

I believe you will find that I said precisely once, tongue in cheek, that Mission:Space was a spinner, in a thread where we had previously discussed the Dumbo style spinners (most readers knew it was tongue in cheek, because Space's spinning ride mech is no secret to anyone, blueprints or no). My complaints about Mission:Space involve the budget cuts that turned the "trip into space" theme into a "ride a g-force simulator" theme.

Your statement "Jeff Jewell, you've posted several times that space is just going to be a spinner" is another fabrication on your part. Whether you missed my point about the theme or purposefully avoided it makes no real difference to me, but I made a valid (and unaddressed by you) point about theming, and you choose to argue with something you made up. I will continue to correct you on these points of fact involving my posts, even when (like now) you end up dragging us off-topic.

I am consistently only saying one thing: "Give them a Chance, Before Passing Judgment" Nothing more was intended, nothing less was intended.

Who passed judgement on a parade? There are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales (golly, that sounds familiar, I wonder why the point hasn't been addressed?), but there has been NO ONE who has stated the parades "suck." No one.

The backlash is against the commercial nature of an alledged celebration of a creative entertainer. No one has bashed your precious parades.

Jeff

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

… but, I've got to try one last time.

Scoop,

Now that it's quite apparent that NO ONE wants to 'rain on the parades' . And now that you've found your center, and the real definition of this thread, what do you think? From everything you've heard or seen of it, do you think this type of "event" (and associated ad campaign, hype and sponsorship) is appropriate for Walt's 100 years?

I guess my point is they're really not even trying to hide the cheap commercialism of it. If nothing else it proves they're getting lazy, mixed in with a whole bunch of arrogance.

 

[JeffJewell]

...my point is that I did not see where anyone ever said the parades were bad, boring, or in any way non-spiffy.

I saw that there are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales (wow, deja vu).

No one said the parade and the BAH are crappy ads for pins and snow globes, just that they _are_ ads for pins and snowglobes. Some people think that wrapping up advertisements in a "Walt's Birthday Celebration" banner is an example of caring more about how much money can be accumulated in the shortest possible time-frame than about honoring a creative entertainer, and further, some people feel this is a bad direction for the Disney company.

Arguing that the above point should not be allowed to be made until we see if we like the parades or not, skirts the valid issue that has been raised in the thread.

Refering to those posters and opinions as "bashers" and "flames" only invites further comment. Predictably critical comment.

If you'd like to discuss the origins and implications of Disney's disguising advertisements as attractions honoring Walt, well, that's what it looked to me that we were doing in this thread. If I'm mistaken, and we were talking about whether or not we like the parades, well, I think the thread will die pretty quickly, as Steve and a few others are the only ones qualified to participate.

Jeff

 

[JeffJewell]

Selectively labelling these, on a whole, as "little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales" disregards the scope, costuming, theming, creation...in exchange for the IMPLICATION that Disney has created this celeb only to sell Pins and Snow Globes.

What we've actually seen of the celebration is the BAH and the snippets of the snow globe parade. Even if the press releases all come true concerning the other attractions, we end up with "one new interactive exhibit focusing on Walt." During an alledged celebration of Walt's birth. It's that "focusing on Walt" that's the hairy part.

When you consider the relatively small level of attention being paid to the focus of the celebration in contrast to the high visibility of the pin and snow globe ads; when you consider that this celebration is merely one of a series of 15-month celebrations beginning two years apart with the intention of boosting attendance at a specific park; when you consider that the center of the celebration is a park Walt had nothing to do with, and actually contains a significant percentage of non-Disney content... well, when you consider all that, it's difficult for me to believe that the intention was to celebrate Walt's birth or his life.

When you consider those facts, doesn't it seem more likely that the impetus for the celebration was more for marketing reasons and less for Walt's legacy? It's fun to poke at "pins and snow globes" because Disney seems to be having so much fun pushing them out on the front of this wave, but the real marketing is simply to try to get people in the hotels. And no, that's obviously not a bad thing in and of itself, but there is a painful circularity here. How to get folks in the hotel? Walt celebration. What makes up the Walt celebration? Let's focus on the pin and snow globe sales. Using advertising to advertise more advertising.

I think the underlying theme of some of the complaints would go: "If you'd made the celebration focus more on Walt and less on the pins and globes, more people would have shown up." Unfortunately, that one's pretty tough to "prove," and we end up talking about what we personally like or do not like.

I'm not even knocking the pins and globes themselves, hell, I think the pins are a great idea, even though I don't partake. Pins are by definition a trinket to remind one of something special to them, and at Disney, $6-$10 seems rather reasonable for a trinket. Trading with CMs and other guests encourages interaction, and you know the little things cost Disney about 4 cents each, so it's pulling in some bucks when bucks are needed badly.

What I object to is the pins taking such a central focus in Walt's celebration. I think "pins" were what Walt used to hold up storyboards, but other than that, I see no connection.

I'm also not knocking sponsorship, let me thank RCA right now for getting Space Mountain built. Again, I feel the problem in the current scenario is the circularity: let's get a sponsor to pay for the parade and hat to advertise the pins and globes.

To paraphrase Clara Peller, "where's the Walt" in this Walt celebration? Believe me, if Hallmark's contributions were used to return the Walt Disney Story to the Expo center, to restore the original, educational soundtrack to the WEDway in place of the insipid spiel there now, to build an unfinished idea of Walt's into a new E-ticket, that kind of thing, well, I doubt there'd be much flak, even if they tried to sell us a pin or two while they were at it. That's not the focus they took.

This, in conjunction with a careful examination of each celeb "event" causes me to disagree with the statement that

It's okay that you disagree, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "careful examination of each celeb "event."" Are you saying that this celebration has about as much Walt content as, for instance, the Millenium celebration had Millenium content (I really mean that as a simple question, not a confrontation. Actually, if I accurately summed up your meaning, I'll not argue with the assertion. I do view it as more of an indictment of the Millenium Celebration, rather than a feather in the cap of the Walt Celebration, though)?

Jeff

 

[JeffJewell]

That is, has been, and remains my only point in this discussion.

That point has been made, and I, at least, agree with it (you dug up the quote yourself). I also don't see anyone else arguing against that point.

We're talking about something else entirely here, in case you'd care to take part in _that_ discussion.

Jeff

 

[Sarangel]

Alright, Ladies & Gentlemen. This post has become more of an arguement than a discussion. I'm going to close it to give the parties concerned a chance to cool off. If necessary, we can begin another thread about whether or not the celebration is too commercial.

Sarangel