Red Headed Step Child!

[k3chantal]

Regular WDW DVCers don't know how well off they are with the ticket discounts.

Those of us on the West Coast who frequent DLR can look forward to a $50 (I think that's what it was last year) discount on an AP, and remember, the Aps out here were increased a lot more than WDW in last year's price increase.

I had an interesting conversation with a CM from Member Satisfaction over this. He said DVc has to negotiate any discounts with the other parts of Disney responsible for those areas. I understand that.

Then he said they can get better discounts on things like APs at WDW because there are so many more DVCers visiting there than DLR. Makes sense, since there are 48 DVC rooms at DLR, and even if you multiply that by 10 for DVC visitors staying in other non-DVC rooms, that is obviously true.

Finally, he said in order to get a better discount at DLR, more DVC people would have to go there. I then said, great, when are you adding DVC rooms to DLR so we can make that happen.

He said they are still studying whether VGC has been a successful experiment. Then, when they get enough data, they'd decide whether to expand DVC at DLR.

Seems like circular logic here. I'm not holding my breath for either more DVC rooms or a better discount.

I think Disney knows that VGC has been a successful experiment; I think they are wondering where they could possibly put another resort; the space issues in California are a real problem. Isn't that one of the reasons the property in Florida appealed so much to Walt?

 

[Breyean]

I think Disney knows that VGC has been a successful experiment; I think they are wondering where they could possibly put another resort; the space issues in California are a real problem. Isn't that one of the reasons the property in Florida appealed so much to Walt?

I think one of the issues is a power struggle between DVC and the hotel division. For example, when the villas were built at GCH there were some in that wing that were made into hotel rooms. Rumor is those are easily convertible into villas, but they remain part of the hotel.

Unlike what happened at AKL, which had problems renting all the rooms, so they were converted into DVC rooms, GCH seems to have no problems selling out. Thus, DVC has little leverage to push for a short term gain for their department when the hotel brings in a steady revenue stream for theirs.

Second, there's room on the grounds of the DLH for another tower. There's really a lot of open space there when you take a walk around the hotel. Plus there's the parking lot across the street from GCH. As an uneducated observer, seeing how Disney built a multi story parking structure for their park guest a few years ago, and built a small underground garage when they built the VGC, and that there's a multi story structure that services the PPH, that ground level parking area across from GCH is very underutilized.

I agree though, with your point about the success of VGC. That was sort of my point talking with the CM from Member Satisfaction - how long do they need to see a fully booked DVC resort before they add more?

In fact, I think it's getting even more popular with Aulani. I know, for example, that I recently rented some of my VGC points to a member who is doing a trip to Aulani and is then spending a few days at DLR and wanted to try VGC. I bet that's happening pretty often, if those members who don't own there can even get a room.

But the argument he made that they need more DVC visits to DLR to justify a discount that approaches WDW's on APs, but that they won't build more DVC units until they know it will be profitable, is enough to make my head spin.

Sort of a chicken/egg sort of thing.

 

[keishashadow]

Well poop. My family and I are headed home in August. I love DVC and signed on because it truly is our happy place. However, I'm thinking, there are many that look forward to incentives.. we so don't. We DVC'ers are a big fan base but I'm thinking they don't give a fig about us. Are we offered disney dining for our stay, yeah no. Jumping off my soap box, just being pissed. I love my DVC but hating it none the less. I feel like they don't give a tinkers damn.

Those here who are big on visiting Universal will tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a red-headed stepchild (see avatar tag)

actually, we are offered disney dining for our stays without an accompanying ticket purchase, note that it took some lobbying by members before it was included in our perks the following year.

My concern is Disney realized that Claire was actually treating DVC owners like Guests (due to the perks you mentioned) so they brought in someone else

she was a breath of fresh air, I hope her mindset continues with new management.

 

[HannaBelle]

Those here who are big on visiting Universal will tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a red-headed stepchild (see avatar tag)

Hate to be picky about the title too, but I am another red head and I love my DVC.

I went in knowing its limitations and that per the contract (yes, I read the whole thing ), we were purchasing points to stay at our home resort, once a year...everything else is negotiable.

 

[kdzgon]

This is not a comparison to apples to apples. DVC rooms are better than moderate rooms and should be compared to Disney's other deluxe resorts. In addition, they have washers, dryers, and kitchens in the larger units. (This alone saves money).

And, free dining, is not 'free'. To get free dining, you are paying the full amount for your accommodations.

I don't think this is about 'fairness'. But just for the record, I do believe DVC members are 'getting more'.

But I do agree with you about doing away with free dining because it packs the restaurants making 'paying' customers have less of an experience and makes people feel things are not 'fair'.

I find it interesting that in the same post, you first explain how "free dining" is not free, but then complain(explain?) that the "free" dining guests crowd out the "paying" guests. Truth is, even based on your own arguments, the "free" dining guests are indeed "paying" guests, too.

 

[kdzgon]

The hotel I priced was Animal Kingdom Villas, 2 Bedroom Savannah View. and paying out of pocket for dining is $3,024 (9nights), basic tickets for those 10 days for 6 adults (12,12,12,13,37, & 40) is $2032. My Points I priced as $11 a point for a total of 419 points is $4609, my dues for those points is $2486 for a total of $12,151, that same room for the exact same time with free dining is $10327. A difference of $1,824. And even if you value your points at $8 you are still spending $567 more.


I wasn't using a 2 day ticket I was using the 10 days Id be there, because some are not family members and Id have to pay for them any way. And not any where I only priced Animal Kingdom. I agree with you 100% it would be better for me to rent my points at this time and opt for free dining. Great suggestion.

I know I'm definitely confused here.

First, your original post specifically stated you priced out and compared DVC to a value and then a moderate room: "I currently have DVC reservations for 6 people 2 adults and 4 "Disney Adult" kids over 10 and I priced Dining and tickets for our stay there and compared it to, Booking 2 value rooms with free dining (upgrade from quick included in price), the same tickets, and it is $366 cheaper And includes 2 ROOMS!! And A Moderate resort saves you $163."

Second, if you are comparing costs, why would you use both rental price AND dues? Looks to me that you proved even renting DVC points is cheaper than "free" dining by $665 in your example. Considering your out of pocket cost is significantly less than $11 per point, there is no way "free" dining is cheaper than DCV.

Third, comparing 2 rooms to a 2 BR suite is, as has been mentioned already, completely inconsistent and truly "apples to oranges".

Fourth, I don't understand how if a value room would save $366, a moderate would save $163. There is no way 9 nights for two rooms in a Disney mod is only $203 more than the same reservation in a Disney value hotel.

Bottom line is you must do what makes you feel good - even if your numbers are totally off-base or not, what matters is your perception. Your vacation will be compromised if you are feeling taken advantage of, so yes, by all means, rent your points and go get that "deal".

 

[AmyB2006]

I know I'm definitely confused here.

First, your original post specifically stated you priced out and compared DVC to a value and then a moderate room: "I currently have DVC reservations for 6 people 2 adults and 4 "Disney Adult" kids over 10 and I priced Dining and tickets for our stay there and compared it to, Booking 2 value rooms with free dining (upgrade from quick included in price), the same tickets, and it is $366 cheaper And includes 2 ROOMS!! And A Moderate resort saves you $163."

Second, if you are comparing costs, why would you use both rental price AND dues? Looks to me that you proved even renting DVC points is cheaper than "free" dining by $665 in your example. Considering your out of pocket cost is significantly less than $11 per point, there is no way "free" dining is cheaper than DCV.

Third, comparing 2 rooms to a 2 BR suite is, as has been mentioned already, completely inconsistent and truly "apples to oranges".

Fourth, I don't understand how if a value room would save $366, a moderate would save $163. There is no way 9 nights for two rooms in a Disney mod is only $203 more than the same reservation in a Disney value hotel.

Bottom line is you must do what makes you feel good - even if your numbers are totally off-base or not, what matters is your perception. Your vacation will be compromised if you are feeling taken advantage of, so yes, by all means, rent your points and go get that "deal".

Where's the "like" button?

 

[geraghty]

Where's the "like" button?

Found it

Like

 

[crisi]

People talk about perks being taken away, the only perk I know of that was taken away was valet parking and that was out of DVC's hands. When Disney discontinued length of stay tickets, DVC replaced the 10% LOS discount with an AP discount. We're getting the same discounts as Florida Residents on AP's, something that was only a dream 10 years ago. This board was full of complaints then that we should get a 10% discount on AP's, we're now getting over 25% off! The discount was increased last June. The $399 PAP promo was a great deal. My concern is DVC is going to say why bother, they keep whining no matter what we give. They are not obligated to give any perks, just provide a room at your home resort.

For me, the AP discount isn't very useful, the old discount was. So for me it wasn't a replacement, it was a reduction.

On the other hand, we never had a car when valet parking was offered, so that wasn't a reduction in perks at all.

We've also seen a reduction in pool hopping privileges over the years. Again, not a huge deal, but if you bought BWV thinking that you'd use SAB (which you could during the first years BWV was open), that changed in 2002. We never used it, so again, didn't affect us, but it certainly affected some people.

The big one that comes and goes is discounts - sometimes there is a Cirque discount, sometimes not. The golf program changes, it might have worked for you before, now it doesn't. Maybe there is a World of Disney discount, maybe there isn't. Maybe there is a discount at some restaurants, maybe there isn't. Maybe tours are discounted, maybe they aren't or have a lower discount than last year.

This isn't a complaint, but it is the reality - don't make a purchase decision based on perks, the perks do come and go and what is there in five years might not work for you. Or might be a better deal for you. And don't get too attached to perks or assume they will be there long term once you are in the program - particularly discounts.

 

[CarolMN]

...(snip)......The big one that comes and goes is discounts - sometimes there is a Cirque discount, sometimes not. The golf program changes, it might have worked for you before, now it doesn't. Maybe there is a World of Disney discount, maybe there isn't. Maybe there is a discount at some restaurants, maybe there isn't. Maybe tours are discounted, maybe they aren't or have a lower discount than last year.

This is true for all Disney discounts (and IMO, is true for all companies' discount programs) - including those associated with APs, lodging, TiW, Disney Visa, Free Dining, etc. Remember the old Magic Kingdom cards?

IMO, the discounts & perks have absolutely no relationship to how "valued" DVC members are by Disney. They are offered to increase revenue/profits. Period.

This isn't a complaint, but it is the reality - don't make a purchase decision based on perks, the perks do come and go and what is there in five years might not work for you. Or might be a better deal for you. And don't get too attached to perks or assume they will be there long term once you are in the program - particularly discounts.

Agree 100%.

 

[DonnaL]

The above poster mentions "and it includes TWO rooms". If a group of two adults and four "over age 10" children are staying in any of the DVC resorts they should be staying in accommodations no less than a two bedroom since even the largest studio only accommodates up to five people. Therefore, with DVC accommodations they would have significantly more than "TWO rooms" but, also a full kitchen, washer/dryer, and in some DVC resorts three baths.

 

[k3chantal]

I find it interesting that in the same post, you first explain how "free dining" is not free, but then complain(explain?) that the "free" dining guests crowd out the "paying" guests. Truth is, even based on your own arguments, the "free" dining guests are indeed "paying" guests, too.

I meant 'paying' right at the time of the transaction. We can certainly spend our time talking about semantics but the reality is that 'free dining' does exactly what Disney would like it to do (increase attendance in their parks and restaurants) and that it does make the experience much more crowded for all. And that was my point.

But, yes, to clarify, I do know that "Free dining" guests are paying guests. They are just under the impression they are getting something for 'free'.

 

[DebbieB]

The above poster mentions "and it includes TWO rooms". If a group of two adults and four "over age 10" children are staying in any of the DVC resorts they should be staying in accommodations no less than a two bedroom since even the largest studio only accommodates up to five people. Therefore, with DVC accommodations they would have significantly more than "TWO rooms" but, also a full kitchen, washer/dryer, and in some DVC resorts three baths.

All studios accommodate 4 people (plus one under 3). Largest 1 bedroom accommodates 5 (plus one under 3).

 

[Deb & Bill]

I find it interesting that in the same post, you first explain how "free dining" is not free, but then complain(explain?) that the "free" dining guests crowd out the "paying" guests. Truth is, even based on your own arguments, the "free" dining guests are indeed "paying" guests, too.

My guess is that most of the "free diners" wouldn't normally get the dining plan and wouldn't eat that many TS meals. Thus freeing up more reservations for the guests who are paying to eat.

 

[kdzgon]

My guess is that most of the "free diners" wouldn't normally get the dining plan and wouldn't eat that many TS meals. Thus freeing up more reservations for the guests who are paying to eat.

I don't know that I agree with this. We were brought back to Disney in 2006 (after almost 20 years) by the combination of "free" dining and young grandchildren. My travel agent directed me to several Disney boards to help me plan that trip. We had a great time, and after our return started to visit the boards quite regularly. I learned about pin codes, and buying DVC resale (we avoided DVC for our entire 11 or 12 day trip). We did another "free" dining trip with a grand gathering of 30+ people, did a couple pin code trips paying for dining and started DVC trips. Some of our DVC trips had dining (old plan, and the sometimes QS plan for short trips and.or F&W, thanks to 2 snacks per day (routinely "appropriating" the grands' snacks during F&W lol).

Our kids still often choose the dining plan for their families- sometimes "free" dining, other times purchasing as they mostly stay with us in the DVC now. We sometimes buy the DP when the family comes as it's a lot less confusing (we do try to break uo our reservations so we only do the DP for the absolute minimum time frame). My DDs realize the DP can result in very little savings, but they like the convenience and "mind-freeing effect" (their words, not mine). I will say if doing a lot of character meals with young children, it can work out well financially.

Of course, at the other end of the spectrum I have friends (4 adults, 2 kids plus a couple visitors along the way - her mother, his cousin, etc). Before I started visiting Disney, they would book several hotel rooms, and pay for all food out of pocket. They now own DVC (stay in 2 BR), and always buy the TIW card. Ironically, they now eat more TS meals thanks to how much they save with the TIW (no cooking for them in the 2 BR just snacks - for the kids mostly).

 

[Dean]

I don't know that I agree with this. We were brought back to Disney in 2006 (after almost 20 years) by the combination of "free" dining and young grandchildren. My travel agent directed me to several Disney boards to help me plan that trip. We had a great time, and after our return started to visit the boards quite regularly. I learned about pin codes, and buying DVC resale (we avoided DVC for our entire 11 or 12 day trip). We did another "free" dining trip with a grand gathering of 30+ people, did a couple pin code trips paying for dining and started DVC trips. Some of our DVC trips had dining (old plan, and the sometimes QS plan for short trips and.or F&W, thanks to 2 snacks per day (routinely "appropriating" the grands' snacks during F&W lol).

Our kids still often choose the dining plan for their families- sometimes "free" dining, other times purchasing as they mostly stay with us in the DVC now. We sometimes buy the DP when the family comes as it's a lot less confusing (we do try to break uo our reservations so we only do the DP for the absolute minimum time frame). My DDs realize the DP can result in very little savings, but they like the convenience and "mind-freeing effect" (their words, not mine). I will say if doing a lot of character meals with young children, it can work out well financially.

Of course, at the other end of the spectrum I have friends (4 adults, 2 kids plus a couple visitors along the way - her mother, his cousin, etc). Before I started visiting Disney, they would book several hotel rooms, and pay for all food out of pocket. They now own DVC (stay in 2 BR), and always buy the TIW card. Ironically, they now eat more TS meals thanks to how much they save with the TIW (no cooking for them in the 2 BR just snacks - for the kids mostly).

I don't know about most but of the group that get the free dining package, many wouldn't get the DP and a number wouldn't even stay on property. Many others would simply utilize codes for savings on planned hotel options. Many also get a higher resort type than they might otherwise.

 

[Dean]

I think Disney knows that VGC has been a successful experiment; I think they are wondering where they could possibly put another resort; the space issues in California are a real problem. Isn't that one of the reasons the property in Florida appealed so much to Walt?

I'm sure they knew up front it'd be easy to sell but if they had another good option to do so, I'm sure they'd add that in pretty quickly.

 

[Sammie]

I really do not understand the angst about Free Dining.

Most all Disney restaurants at any given time are going to be full, it makes no difference to me who is doing the dining, paid, free, TIW, whatever.

Book your time far enough in advance and you will get what you want when you want.

If you wait, then that is not the free dinner's problem anymore than it is the member who waits and does not get the room they want.

 

[pinnocchiosdad]

Heres the thing I have been thinking about lately, I love the IDEA of DVC, the reality of it not so much.
I currently have DVC reservations for 6 people 2 adults and 4 "Disney Adult" kids over 10 and I priced Dining and tickets for our stay there and compared it to, Booking 2 value rooms with free dining (upgrade from quick included in price), the same tickets, and it is $366 cheaper And includes 2 ROOMS!! And A Moderate resort saves you $163. I haven't seen any "Perks" that equal that savings per trip!! Throw some Free Fast Passes in for each trip those are invaluable, they save us time, and allow us to do more. I say 2 per person per day of the trip. Its free to DVC!! And would make our Membership more valuable.
Has Anyone else priced DVC and the same DVC room with free dining? Yep non DVC is cheaper when you figure in dues and points cost!!
Over all I say give us free dining too, or don't offer it to anyone. Its not fair to us to pay more and receive less.

I couldn't agree more. And don't forget us DVC owners get the perk of throwing out our own trash and washing our own sheets and making our own beds. Guests paying rack rate have to let Disney do that for them. And why is it so many owners don't consider the interest on their loans when comparing the price of their room to a rack rate room.

 

[Dean]

I really do not understand the angst about Free Dining.

Most all Disney restaurants at any given time are going to be full, it makes no difference to me who is doing the dining, paid, free, TIW, whatever.

Book your time far enough in advance and you will get what you want when you want.

If you wait, then that is not the free dinner's problem anymore than it is the member who waits and does not get the room they want.

I think there are at least 2 issues. One is that the restaurants seem to fill up much faster from a reservation standpoint making it more difficult to get a reservation and almost impossible for some. I'm sure free dining isn't the only factor, I can think of other likely possibilities. The other, and IMO more important, is that it appears to have affected the choices, prices and quality of the restaurant food and service to a degree. Again, FD is likely not the only factor at work here but is likely the most important one.