Red Headed Step Child!

What OP said is exactly why I'm undecided on DVC. I think it'd be wonderful to have a "home", but I feel like I'd miss out on a lot of deals. I almost wonder if its worth it financially considering the special offers I've gotten. I'm sure I will spend many hours one night over an Excel spreadsheet determining this in the near future.

Waiting for 'deals' is a chance; especially in the way future. Who knows what Disney will offer ten years down the line........ But what is a definite is knowing I have my DVC points to make reservations regardless of what is going on with the prices of hotels on property. The best deal for me is knowing that I am staying on property without having to find and work for a deal. It is done.
 
We are a family of 5 and most of our trips to WDW there are 7 of us. The very least we would need is 2 value rooms. Even if I used a discount for the value rooms, the amount is still more than the what it cost me each year for my points, and I get a 2BR Villa at AKV for a week instead of a value resort. Plus, I don't have to worry if a special offer is even going to come out for my dates like so many on the DISboards do. That is why I bought into DVC, and I do not regret it even for one minute.
 
I've enjoyed my times in moderates and values, but I enjoy my DVC suites considerably more. That feeling alone keeps me from yearning for any sort of "free" dining. As often as we visit WDW, having a DVC ownership is quite lovely. Is it a bargain? Well, that depends upon which view one takes. Given that we enjoy more space, have a kitchen, do use the W/D, absolutely love the jetted tub, and travel to the World frequently, DVC is a bargain to us. Further, we're not fans of the "free" dining, and we use the TiW card to help defray expenses. So, going the value or moderate rack rate just to get the "free" dining plan just isn't a bargain to the way we travel. However, to each his own. ;)
 
What OP said is exactly why I'm undecided on DVC. I think it'd be wonderful to have a "home", but I feel like I'd miss out on a lot of deals. I almost wonder if its worth it financially considering the special offers I've gotten. I'm sure I will spend many hours one night over an Excel spreadsheet determining this in the near future.

BUT..."Deals" come and go, just like everything else. For example: Those who bought DVC in the first few years got free park passes until the end of 1999. ( We missed that perk by a couple of months when we purchased.) We still thought we got a good deal though.

Frankly, there is NO deal better than the DVC AP discount and especially the PAP discount we got for this year. We didn't buy into DVC for "deals" and "perks", but because we wanted a pre-paid annual or more vacation to WDW. It has been the single best financial decision we have made in the last 20 years. With DVC, I KNOW I'm going to be taking a vacation or two every year, and it's costing me less than $2000 a year maintenance. I couldn't have a second home and maintain it for that!

Now, of course, my value is probably greater than those of you who are buying on time and not paying for it all up front, and also quite different for those paying today's prices as opposed to what I paid 16 years ago.
 

Except for bouncebacks from last year and some UK deals, September 2 to 25 is the first time free dining has been offered this year. September is the lowest crowd time of the year, highest risk of hurricanes and hot as heck. I don't know how you can point to that and say it's better than being a member. I stayed in a BLT studio studio for 5 nights in March and rack rate was $2920. I used 105 points. I put the value of my points around $8 (original cost of $1.54 per point + dues), that's about $840.

Just watching the people on the discount board freaking out about when free dining or discounts will be offered is worth it alone.

The OP said they are going in August, free dining isn't being offered in August! They are offering 5% off for AKV & BLT, 30% off for the rest of the DVC's.
 
I gotta say, if I paid today's direct prices.....I just might feel like I'm getting the short end. But for us, we value a BLT MUCH higher than a value room. I don't care if the value room is bigger (as BLT is the smallest studio) I'm not a fan of the value resorts at all. Nothing against them, it's just a lot more crowded and god forbid you go during Senior trips, or baseball tournaments, or cheerleading competitions. I just prefer to not be around all that. So if we weren't DVC, we wouldn't be staying at value anyway, so I don't even use it as a comparison. Two places WE most likely would stay is CSR or POR. And my buy in plus dues right now ( I know someone else doesn't use their points buy in cost, but I have to as it's part of what I paid) is a little over $6.50 per point. There is no comparison where DVC ends up costing me more when I multiply my points usage by $6.50. Like others have said, I don't eat a sit down meal every night, and if I did, I'm usually full by dessert and I HATE that overstuffed feeling. Always had that when we've had the dining plan. But our biggest reason for not doing the dining plan (even if it was free).....I HATE scheduling my vacation before my vacation. I don't like making ADR unless its one or two special places we want to try. Rushing around and making sure you are at x place by x time really ruins the trip for me. I like to take one day at a time and plan each day how we feel....not by what our reservations are that had to be made months earlier.
 
The hotel I priced was Animal Kingdom Villas, 2 Bedroom Savannah View. and paying out of pocket for dining is $3,024 (9nights), basic tickets for those 10 days for 6 adults (12,12,12,13,37, & 40) is $2032. My Points I priced as $11 a point for a total of 419 points is $4609, my dues for those points is $2486 for a total of $12,151, that same room for the exact same time with free dining is $10327. A difference of $1,824. And even if you value your points at $8 you are still spending $567 more.

I have rented my points in the past and booked with free dining instead, not too often though as my wife prefers DVC over a moderate + FD.

The way I would be looking at this though is

Cash Rate - DDP - Tickets = DVC Value

$10,327 - $3,024 - $2,032 = $5,271 which is how much you need to rent your points at to break even renting your points and paying cash instead. For 419 points, that works out $12.58. Which is a little on the high side for AKV points.

Personally I don't think renting and buying the package makes sense.
 
We DVC'ers are a big fan base but I'm thinking they don't give a fig about us. Are we offered disney dining for our stay, yeah no. Jumping off my soap box, just being pissed. I love my DVC but hating it none the less. I feel like they don't give a tinkers damn.

You can buy the dining plan for your stay, just like everyone else can; August isn't a FD month (at least at this time).

I don't think it's Disney's job to give a darn about us; we all made our decisions of what seemed best for us.

We're going in October, also not a FD month, and since we're out of useful points for this trip we're happily and joyously staying at POR! We're tremendously excited. Helps that I got a GREAT deal through runDisney, and we could add dining on. But the DDP doesn't work for the way my family eats, so it's pointless to pay for it.

And actually, even if FD were offered during my time, I bet that going back to paying rack rate for the hotel room wouldn't be as good as the deal I already signed on for, AND we would end up with credits left while having to pay for other things...so even though it's not offered to me (nor to you since you are traveling in August) it doesn't bother me at all.



We looked into TIW, and it does look like it would benefit us if we went more than once a year (with the $100 Fee) or for longer trips, and I'm sure in the future we will. Thank you for the suggestion. My Husband likes having things paid for in advance that's how we ended up getting DVC (obviously other factors as well LOL), so he opted for the dining plan this trip.

You really should look into TIW. We are a family of 3. We don't generally order the most expensive meals on the menu, I rarely get alcohol, we have one table service per day for most of our trips. Sometimes we eat at the QS places that are included (value food courts including AOA, Sassagoula, Artist Palette at SSR, and QS at AK park), sometimes we don't. Sometimes DH and I share meals. And yet the two times we've had TIW we are already into "pure discount" before the end of our first trip on the card.

If you guys ever order alcohol or buy things beyond the dining plans, you should look into it you get those things at TIW-included restaurants (tablesinwonderland.com has a list and info!), and just see (especially with your party size) if it would make sense for your plans. Might even work for you in conjunction with the DDP, if you're ordering things beyond the plan.



You are absolutely right!! Thank you for pointing this out. I really feel like an idiot L:OL!! So I take back my figures. And in the end Id be saving $662 Using DVC. Honestly being proven wrong never felt so good LOL

Yay!



And since your DH says he wants to prepay so he doesn't have to worry about it, buy $3200 worth of Disney gift cards to prepay your meals with or put it on a prepaid visa gift card (and you'll still have $ leftover when you're done) and you have the best of both worlds!

:thumbsup2

By the way, I have red hair and I am a step child. ha ha. I never really care for this expression. I know you mean nothing by it but maybe next time use a different phrase. :)

I'm a stepchild 3 times over, but not generally a red-head, but I dislike the phrase, too. :hug:
 
So doing the numbers for my December trip. Based on the dues for this year and what we paid for the points as broken out by year we are paying $1000 for a week in a AKV Studio Concierge, compared to rack rate of $4,015 which is what we would have to pay to get free dining. Even front loading the complete cost of our APs vs. the 5 day PH WP&M option we only paid about $110 more for the APs, which we will do at least one maybe two more trips on. With the extra $100 for TIW we will get the freedom to arrange our meals to our taste and mood, so even if we spend $1100 between TIW and the food and beverage costs versus free dining, we still come out ahead by about $1,800. I will take that savings anyday.
 
So doing the numbers for my December trip. Based on the dues for this year and what we paid for the points as broken out by year we are paying $1000 for a week in a AKV Studio Concierge, compared to rack rate of $4,015 which is what we would have to pay to get free dining. Even front loading the complete cost of our APs vs. the 5 day PH WP&M option we only paid about $110 more for the APs, which we will do at least one maybe two more trips on. With the extra $100 for TIW we will get the freedom to arrange our meals to our taste and mood, so even if we spend $1100 between TIW and the food and beverage costs versus free dining, we still come out ahead by about $1,800. I will take that savings anyday.

As I have posted in the past DVC works well for many families. The benefit for Disney and the airlines is that you are planning 3 trips and will pay the associated expenses to take advantage of the AP's.

If that is your normal vacation pattern then great, but many owners find themselves going to Disney more often and spending more money compared to pre-DVC vacations.

:earsboy: Bill
 
We stayed at a value resort and did "Free Dining" once just to try it out. It was HORRIBLE. I have never been so uncomfortable. EVER. And we didn't even utilize it to it's fullest....

We bought DVC because we were a family of 5 going twice a year and being in a hotel room for a week (even a deluxe that sleeps 5) really isn't fun. With DVC, we have stretched our stays to 10 days and still could stay longer. I love having the balcony, the kitchen (nothing fancy, but it's nice to make spaghetti or something simple to get away from all the rich or fried food - and a real breakfast is perfect in the villa), the washer and dryer, the extra bathroom, and the SPACE. We could definitely stay in a Value resort for cheap, especially with the AP Rate, but it's just not the same vacation to us.

We bought DVC back when they were building BCV and then had to sell our points for financial reasons a few years later.... bought it again (more points this time :thumbsup2), this time at BLT. Love it. Love it. Love it.
 
One other thing on the TIW card... That looks like it could save you about $500 ($600 in savings - $100 cost for the card). And since your DH says he wants to prepay so he doesn't have to worry about it, buy $3200 worth of Disney gift cards to prepay your meals with or put it on a prepaid visa gift card (and you'll still have $ leftover when you're done) and you have the best of both worlds!

This sounds like a great Idea. I think I will do this!! Thank you so Much!!
 
I may be posting early, as I have pages 3 & 4 to read, but I wanted to get this in. Plus, it is important for those outside the discussion looking into buying DVC! :)

First and foremost, free Dining is a promotional item that will disappear when it isn't required to sustain guest count, like it is during various times of the year. DVC is a long term proposition that can not accurately be considered against current hotel rates in a one time snapshot.

More importantly, however...

The hotel I priced was Animal Kingdom Villas, 2 Bedroom Savannah View. and paying out of pocket for dining is $3,024 (9nights), basic tickets for those 10 days for 6 adults (12,12,12,13,37, & 40) is $2032. My Points I priced as $11 a point for a total of 419 points is $4609, my dues for those points is $2486 for a total of $12,151, that same room for the exact same time with free dining is $10327. A difference of $1,824. And even if you value your points at $8 you are still spending $567 more.

This valuation is inaccurate. if you use the $11/point, that is an "all in" cost to include the purchase price and dues together. If you rent those 419 points for $11 per point each year for 35 years, then you'll net $161,315 in income. Without price increases from Disney, the $2,032 room would cost $71,120 over 35 years. In this case, I recommend you rent your points to get the room. :)

However, the appropriate way to value the points is to take the purchase price, divide by the number of years on the contract at that time to get a price per year. Divide this by the estimated average number of nights you expected to get out of them to get a cost per night. Then take the current dues per point rate and use Excel's Net Present Value formula at 5% inflation rate to get the cost per year for the remaining years on your contract (from today) and multiply this escalating figure by the annual number of points, then add to the yearly total (in the initial cost formula) before dividing by the number of days. This will get a better approximation of your cost per point all in.

As for the dining plan, the retail cost of the plan is expensive for DVC members and should not be used. Instead, you'd need to calculate the cost of using the kitchen for breakfasts, some lunch, and some dinner (include leftovers in the mix), which saves a ton on the food bill. Then plan the cost of eating at a WDW restaurant (with the 10% DVC discount, and no seasonal price increases for those affected months) a few times as desired (we usually do two table service restaurants per trip). Instead, you could determine the cost of eating in the restaurants using the TIW card (include the purchase price), if you plan to eat in a restaurant frequently.

The dining plan is horrible, since DVC members have access to amenities (a kitchen or wet bar) that regular WDW hotel guests do not.

Finally, think about how many loads of laundry you do/may do in your DVC room (or free at the hotel laundry mat) and subtract the cost per load at the hotel from the room bill of DVC points. Alternatively if you wouldn't do laundry in a standard WDW hotel room for nine days, subtract the airline baggage fee costs from the DVC room total, since with a washer/dryer you should pack lighter than you would otherwise. Of course you could bring the same amount of luggage with fewer cloths, leaving room to haul souvenirs home, but you'd need to subtract the cost of shipping stuff home from the DVC rate, instead. :beach:

Bottom line, DVC villas have a lot of intangible cost savings that need to be considered over a standard WDW hotel room. Most prominently is the full kitchen and washer/dryer. If you would prefer to stay at a value or moderate resort and get free dining, then DVC isn't for you, I'm afraid to say.

Good luck!
 
Well poop. My family and I are headed home in August. I love DVC and signed on because it truly is our happy place. However, I'm thinking, there are many that look forward to incentives.. we so don't. We DVC'ers are a big fan base but I'm thinking they don't give a fig about us. Are we offered disney dining for our stay, yeah no. Jumping off my soap box, just being pissed. I love my DVC but hating it none the less. I feel like they don't give a tinkers damn.
We signed up for a timeshare, they will not market to us the same as when trying to fill the hotels nor should they. One should consider these issues up front and for many, owning less points and doing part cash stays may be the best option.
 
As I have posted in the past DVC works well for many families. The benefit for Disney and the airlines is that you are planning 3 trips and will pay the associated expenses to take advantage of the AP's.

If that is your normal vacation pattern then great, but many owners find themselves going to Disney more often and spending more money compared to pre-DVC vacations.

:earsboy: Bill

Happened with us. PAP + DVC = 60 days at WDW within an 8 month period. Previously paying cash we would do 2-3 weeks a year only.

I think it's great though :cool1:
 
Happened with us. PAP + DVC = 60 days at WDW within an 8 month period. Previously paying cash we would do 2-3 weeks a year only.

I think it's great though :cool1:

60 days! wow! We have also increased our trip this year, because of the PAPs. 7 nights in June, 7 nights in Nov/December and 7 nights April 2014.

I agree, it's great!
 
As I have posted in the past DVC works well for many families. The benefit for Disney and the airlines is that you are planning 3 trips and will pay the associated expenses to take advantage of the AP's.

If that is your normal vacation pattern then great, but many owners find themselves going to Disney more often and spending more money compared to pre-DVC vacations.

:earsboy: Bill

You warned me of this before we bought, but ate the same time it's kinda why we bought. We are doing disney more for the same price it feels. We are mixing 3 day weekends in as wher before we felt it was necessary to do 5-7 days at a time because we never knew how long it would be before we were back. Now we are in love with short trips more often. Spirit offers direct flights for us for far les then what we used to pay so far the increased costs haven't hit us too hard.

DVC is not for everyone, but then again neither is "free" dining.
 
I think DVC is an excellent deal (especially if purchased as a resale), and getting a big discount on PAPs made it even better.

Disney prices for Deluxe Hotels are really high. If you want a Deluxe room, owning DVC (or renting from a DVC owner) can save a pile of cash. If you really only want a Value or Moderate, sell or rent out your DVC points, then use the cash to book a Value or Moderate.
 
I truly get what everyone is saying. In my frustration, I would not trade my DVC. I love Disney. I guess what I was trying to get at is I would like for Disney to "love" us almost as we love Disney. Stop taking away our perks and appreciate the fan base. Disney knows I won't sell my DVC (if I don't have to), I just want them to appreciate it. I think it is the exact opposite. They know they have us so we matter less. I usually buy annual passes but give me a discount on per day park tickets. Thanks for all of the great feedback and for the title, I am a red head lol, hence the red headed step child reference.
 
I don't think it's Disney's job to give a darn about us; we all made our decisions of what seemed best for us.




I'm a stepchild 3 times over, but not generally a red-head, but I dislike the phrase, too. :hug:

While it's not Disney's job to do so and I bought into knowing what I know, I'm not simple. I do wish that Disney put more thought to us and appreciated our fan base.

As for the red headed step child.I meant no disrespect and I'm sorry you took it that way. It's a common term and as a red head I find it humorous. But thanks for your distention it only adds to the conversation and helps us see a different perspective. . I can only hope you got the point I was trying to make.
 















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