REALLY Officer? Are you insane?

[luvsJack]

If you are not following me I can't help that. Reread the posts in the entirety.

I know three teachers very well and one has some serious anger issues and she tells me it's because of her job. She always tells me how aggressive she is with the children. I really wonder about her sanity sometimes. Also, there once was this study... OK this was written tongue in cheek but do you get my drift? Insert another profession with cop and realize how that sounds.

Who here has said that no police officers have mental problems? Name one.

I did.

Yes of course there are teachers with anger issues. Its not limited to any one profession. The difference in the hypothetical teacher and the officer I am talking about is that a teacher would lose her job in a heart beat if the child's parents find out that she is that agressive. The officer I am talking about is still a cop and what he has done is not thought to be out of line. But some of the tales he will really scare a person realizing that the next cop that pulls them over might be like him.

Neither did anyone say that all cops have mental porblems or anger issues. The other two I know are perfectly fine. But it just stands to reason that MORE cops are going to have problems dealing with their day to day life than, oh, say secretaries who the worst thing they see all day is their boss's very bad use of grammar.

 

[LSmith]

I did.

Yes of course there are teachers with anger issues. Its not limited to any one profession. The difference in the hypothetical teacher and the officer I am talking about is that a teacher would lose her job in a heart beat if the child's parents find out that she is that agressive. The officer I am talking about is still a cop and what he has done is not thought to be out of line. But some of the tales he will really scare a person realizing that the next cop that pulls them over might be like him.

Neither did anyone say that all cops have mental porblems or anger issues. The other two I know are perfectly fine. But it just stands to reason that MORE cops are going to have problems dealing with their day to day life than, oh, say secretaries who the worst thing they see all day is their boss's very bad use of grammar.

I'm not sure why you think that a teacher would lose his/her job in a heartbeat if they were aggressive towards kids. I personally know of a teacher that just retired who was an insane, nasty, crazy, aggressive bully and had many, many complaints lodged against her over the years. Nothing was ever done about her. The teachers union where I live is probably the strongest in North America. She was never fired, she retired. I'm not teacher bashing by the way. I don't see her as representing the greater teaching profession.

Since my husband is a union rep I am aware of plenty of firings of police officers over the years.

By the way, I have seen a few crazy secretaries over the years! Mental illness doesn't care what your job is.

 

[Tiger926]

Yes, I am biased when I hear someone say that the cops are repeatedly beating up and questioning her highschool students and she understands why they don't trust the cops.

Can't say as I believe that it is happening repeatedly to innocent kids and that the cops are getting away with it. Since we live around the same community and my husband is a cop I know that if someone files a complaint it is taken very seriously. Trust me, the parents and media would be all over that. Also, I'm pretty sure that the teacher would have an obligation to report that abuse.

I teach at-risk kids who love bothering and harrassing police officers, so since they are regulars, they do get roughed up quite a bit. We've had police officers admit this to us, as they hope that it will deter them.

You don't know me, nor do you know the students whom I teach. I didn't say that all of my students are always beat up, nor are they always innocent (not sure where you got that idea from?), but many of them are behaviour challenged, emotional issues and addiction issues, so they get in trouble with the law a lot.

That is why we continue to remind our students that they need to stop looking for trouble. Many of them are mean and aggressive towards the officers, so the officers need to do what they need to do to protect themselves and the scene. We are in constant contact with the police around here, and so we are well aware of how difficult some of our students are.

Regarding the media, are you kidding me? Most of my students don't even live with their parents, so there is no parental involvement around. And I'm sorry, but if you don't witness something firsthand, you can't go around continually reporting second and thirdhand incidences that may or may not be true? Seriously, that is not how it works...Our students claim that they have been mistreated by the officers, and in some cases it was unjusitified, and in other cases, it was justified, but since I wasn't there, I can't report that. We do hear from some of the officers after the fact that the students were high or very aggressive and got roughed up, as well, we hear from some of the officers that they are always aggressive with certain kids and that's the way they police. So, regardless of whether the kids totally comply, they are getting roughed up, as that is the way they do business with repeat offenders. It may not be fair, but many people are pre-judged, and that is what happens in many cases with my students.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[luvsJack]

I'm not sure why you think that a teacher would lose his/her job in a heartbeat if they were aggressive towards kids. I personally know of a teacher that just retired who was an insane, nasty, crazy, aggressive bully and had many, many complaints lodged against her over the years. Nothing was ever done about her. The teachers union where I live is probably the strongest in North America. She was never fired, she retired. I'm not teacher bashing by the way. I don't see her as representing the greater teaching profession.

Since my husband is a union rep I am aware of plenty of firings of police officers over the years.

By the way, I have seen a few crazy secretaries over the years! Mental illness doesn't care what your job is.

Ok, HERE a teacher would be fired. I have seen it happen over a lot less than what I am telling you this cop has done. Things like people going to jail with their face completely swollen and bruised and him saying "he resisted" (and this isn't something I have seen, its something he, himself, has said.)

I don't see this guy as a representation of the entire law enforcement profession either. And no mental illness doesn't care what your job is. BUT, if you see the awful things that cops see every day, put your life on the line every day and put up with the stuff I am sure they put up with every day it is going to effect some of them. I am not saying that more cops are mentally ill before they become cops. I am saying the pure nature of their job is more likely to cause someone to have a breakdown as the officer in the OP obviously did.

And, yes, I have seen a few of those crazy secretaries too. Work with at least 2 of them.

 

[Tiger926]

Ok, HERE a teacher would be fired. I have seen it happen over a lot less than what I am telling you this cop has done.

I don't see this guy as a representation of the entire law enforcement profession either. And no mental illness doesn't care what your job is. BUT, if you see the awful things that cops see every day, put your life on the line every day and put up with the stuff I am sure they put up with every day it is going to effect some of them. I am not saying that more cops are mentally ill before they become cops. I am saying the pure nature of their job is more likely to cause someone to have a breakdown as the officer in the OP obviously did.

And, yes, I have seen a few of those crazy secretaries too. Work with at least 2 of them.

Yup, that was the purpose of the study that was done. It was done to break down public stigma, and stigma within the police profession, when any officer displays a serious emotional or mental issue. Like I've repeatedly said, the officers who spoke to us, were elated that it was finally out in the open, as more programs and policies went into effect (there were many groups involved in the process) to help officers with the highly demanding and risky elements of their profession. Many of them said that instead of seeking help for the horrible things they dealt with at work, they did drugs or beat up their wives, but after the study, the focus shifted to providing better mental and physical supports for police officers.

Tiger

 

[Spoodleink]

Actually I am very literate and did read your post. Also, I believe we live if not in the same city, very close. Toronto? My husband is a police officer and has been for 24 years.

He is not an alcoholic or drug addict, has never laid a hand on me, does not struggle with impulse controls, is FAR from a bully, has NO mental issues.

We have tons of friends that are police officers and they are just as stable.

Has he ever mowed the lawn a bit too early in the morning? Probably, but he doesn't have the luxury of a 9 - 3 job with three months off a year. He usually works 16 to 18 hours a day. Has he ever parked somewhere he shouldn't have? Yep and if you live in Toronto you know that a ticket will be on your windshield in 20 seconds and your darn right he has to pay it. Ooo, they should take his badge!

Cops are human not robots and they are held accountable like everyone else.

The thing is LEO are supposed to be held to a higher standard. The social contract that gives them the power to enforce laws requires this or it doesn't work. They have more of a resposiblty to follow laws even lame parking and noise laws than an ordinary citizen. You can say that there are LEO's with issues have mental problems or are "bad cops" and not be bashing your DH or all cops.

I know an officer who speeds at levels that violate the reckless driving laws in VA all the time. He flashes his badge and gets out of the ticket. If driving over 80 is reckless for one person it's reckless for everyone. He's not a bad cop or a bad person but he uses his postion to violate the law and that is wrong.

 

[LSmith]

I teach at-risk kids who love bothering and harrassing police officers, so since they are regulars, they do get roughed up quite a bit. We've had police officers admit this to us, as they hope that it will deter them.

You don't know me, nor do you know the students whom I teach. I didn't say that all of my students are always beat up, nor are they always innocent (not sure where you got that idea from?), but many of them are behaviour challenged, emotional issues and addiction issues, so they get in trouble with the law a lot.

That is why we continue to remind our students that they need to stop looking for trouble. Many of them are mean and aggressive towards the officers, so the officers need to do what they need to do to protect themselves and the scene. We are in constant contact with the police around here, and so we are well aware of how difficult some of our students are.

Regarding the media, are you kidding me? Most of my students don't even live with their parents, so there is no parental involvement around. And I'm sorry, but if you don't witness something firsthand, you can't go around continually reporting second and thirdhand incidences that may or may not be true? Seriously, that is not how it works...Our students claim that they have been mistreated by the officers, and in some cases it was unjusitified, and in other cases, it was justified, but since I wasn't there, I can't report that. We do hear from some of the officers after the fact that the students were high or very aggressive and got roughed up, as well, we hear from some of the officers that they are always aggressive with certain kids and that's the way they police. So, regardless of whether the kids totally comply, they are getting roughed up, as that is the way they do business with repeat offenders. It may not be fair, but many people are pre-judged, and that is what happens in many cases with my students.

Thanks, Tiger

Your right I do not know you. I have a good friend who is a teacher for high risk girls at an inner city school. I am well aware of the challenges.

If a police officer tells you that they are always agressive with certain kids and they are getting roughed up, as that is the way they do business with repeat offenders than I urge you to file a police report as that certainly assult and certainly not allowed and I am amazing that an officer would actually admit that.

 

[need2cruise]

I teach at-risk kids who love bothering and harrassing police officers, so since they are regulars, they do get roughed up quite a bit. We've had police officers admit this to us, as they hope that it will deter them.

You don't know me, nor do you know the students whom I teach. I didn't say that all of my students are always beat up, nor are they always innocent (not sure where you got that idea from?), but many of them are behaviour challenged, emotional issues and addiction issues, so they get in trouble with the law a lot.

That is why we continue to remind our students that they need to stop looking for trouble. Many of them are mean and aggressive towards the officers, so the officers need to do what they need to do to protect themselves and the scene. We are in constant contact with the police around here, and so we are well aware of how difficult some of our students are.

Regarding the media, are you kidding me? Most of my students don't even live with their parents, so there is no parental involvement around. And I'm sorry, but if you don't witness something firsthand, you can't go around continually reporting second and thirdhand incidences that may or may not be true? Seriously, that is not how it works...Our students claim that they have been mistreated by the officers, and in some cases it was unjusitified, and in other cases, it was justified, but since I wasn't there, I can't report that. We do hear from some of the officers after the fact that the students were high or very aggressive and got roughed up, as well, we hear from some of the officers that they are always aggressive with certain kids and that's the way they police. So, regardless of whether the kids totally comply, they are getting roughed up, as that is the way they do business with repeat offenders. It may not be fair, but many people are pre-judged, and that is what happens in many cases with my students.

Thanks, Tiger

You teach people who "love bothering and harrassing police officers". These same people are "mean and aggressive towards the officers". And they also "are behaviour challenged, emotional issues and addiction issues, so they get in trouble with the law a lot". Yet these same persons claim that they were "roughed" up and "beaten" up without any reason.......Yeah...real trustworthy sources.

Also, yes cops do prejudge based on a criminals past. They would be signing their death certificates if they didn't. If they get called out to someone or call in a traffic stop and the person is reported to have a violent past, then they NEED to take extra precaution. You can say they should approach every situation that way if they don't want to die, but that can't happen. One example--you make a felony stop--you have certain protocols for approaching that vehicle including having your weapon out, however you can't approach EVERY vehicle you stop with your weapon drawn. So yes, they have to prejudge and handle the situation as they would if it would be the worst outcome possible, even if it means being rough from the get go.
If you knew someone that everytime you were around them they cursed at you, spit at your and even tried to get physical, next time you are around them you would expect that and adjust for that instead of sitting back and waiting to see if it would happen again. This is even more true when you have to worry about one mistake and your life can be done.

Also~middle of the night someone breaks into your house and you dial 911 and are hiding somewhere as the person is going through your house looking for you. Do you want the police to come in and tackle the person (which is considered roughing up) and do whatever is possible to protect you? Or would you rather them be laid back, come up and ring the door bell and wait patiently for you to come and answer your door? Police HAVE to be aggressive by nature, that is why not everyone is cut out for this type of work.

If your students want to whine and complain about the police officers in your area, the solution is simple. Become a productive law abiding citizen and then they wouldn't have to interact with them unless THEY are the ones calling the police for help.

Being married to LE for 12 years, I can tell you I don't know any who would go and tell someone they roughed up a person just because "thats they way they are". Most felt that there was something there that caused the action and they have to back that up. Maybe a normal citizen would have thought they wouldn't have reacted in that manner, but police work is about intended perception of events as well.

 

[need2cruise]

The thing is LEO are supposed to be held to a higher standard. The social contract that gives them the power to enforce laws requires this or it doesn't work. They have more of a resposiblty to follow laws even lame parking and noise laws than an ordinary citizen. You can say that there are LEO's with issues have mental problems or are "bad cops" and not be bashing your DH or all cops.

I know an officer who speeds at levels that violate the reckless driving laws in VA all the time. He flashes his badge and gets out of the ticket. If driving over 80 is reckless for one person it's reckless for everyone. He's not a bad cop or a bad person but he uses his postion to violate the law and that is wrong.

It's not right, but I guess consider it a perk of a job that doesn't have any other perks. I'm sure you have a job that has some type of benefit for you?

However, the standard that cops are held to is unreachable by anyone in society. Ever get mad when someone cuts you off and about causes you to wreck? Do you flip them off or blare your horn at them? If a cop does when off duty, and the person reports it, they can be written up for conduct unbecoming an officer. Ever walk into a liquor store and see the adult magazines sitting there and maybe a man looking at them? Don't let it be a cop, because it is conduct unbecoming a police officer. I have even heard where an off duty cop made a rude remark and was fired over it. In my city, I've heard of a cop being wrote up for his grass being 2 inches longer than the neighbor thought was acceptable. Are you held to these same standards? Cops do not get a break in or out of uniform.

Of, FWIW, most cops running 80 mph have better control over their vehical and know their limitations with it than your average Joe Blow running 80. They are TRAINED for this, citizens are not. I would rather see a police officer running 80 then neighbor Bob.

 

[LSmith]

The thing is LEO are supposed to be held to a higher standard. The social contract that gives them the power to enforce laws requires this or it doesn't work. They have more of a resposiblty to follow laws even lame parking and noise laws than an ordinary citizen. You can say that there are LEO's with issues have mental problems or are "bad cops" and not be bashing your DH or all cops.

I know an officer who speeds at levels that violate the reckless driving laws in VA all the time. He flashes his badge and gets out of the ticket. If driving over 80 is reckless for one person it's reckless for everyone. He's not a bad cop or a bad person but he uses his postion to violate the law and that is wrong.

So you are saying that if there is a ticket on my husband's car because he didn't feed the meter enough money and the time ran out he is held to a higher standard than if it happens to non police officer? I beg to differ.

Seriously, people think cops are supposed to be perfect and they're not. They are human and they make mistakes and should be held accountable the same as you and me if we break the law. Not less and not more.

They do a job that most people could not or would not want.

I'm glad the officer you know gets away for reckless driving because my husband was driving 6 miles over the speed limit once on a highway in PA and got a ticket.

 

[Spoodleink]

So you are saying that if there is a ticket on my husband's car because he didn't feed the meter enough money and the time ran out he is held to a higher standard than if it happens to non police officer? I beg to differ.

Seriously, people think cops are supposed to be perfect and they're not. They are human and they make mistakes and should be held accountable the same as you and me if we break the law. Not less and not more.

They do a job that most people could not or would not want.

I'm glad the officer you know gets away for reckless driving because my husband was driving 6 miles over the speed limit once on a highway in PA and got a ticket.

Did your husband flash his badge to get out of it ? Because that's the point I was making. That officer is abusing the power he's been given , granted it's a small abuse but human nature tends to have small abuses lead to larger ones. I'm not saying cops have to be perfect but yes they should be held to higher standards. They are given a lot of power more power to restict people's liberties than almost all other citizens and because of that they must be held to higher standards.

 

[need2cruise]

Did your husband flash his badge to get out of it ? Because that's the point I was making. That officer is abusing the power he's been given , granted it's a small abuse but human nature tends to have small abuses lead to larger ones. I'm not saying cops have to be perfect but yes they should be held to higher standards. They are given a lot of power more power to restict people's liberties than almost all other citizens and because of that they must be held to higher standards.

Judges, congressmen, and conservation officers are among a few others that has power and can restrict a persons liberties but they are not held to the standard of LE. Also, I have been in the ER before waiting with my child who had a broken arm. I watched a dr walk up to triage, announce that he was dr such and such and needed to his brother in for some stitches to his hand. And he was taken right in without sitting and waiting. I have worked in the medial field and according to triage, that was a low priority but he used his status to get in. No different than flashing a badge. A badge alone will NOT get you out of a ticket. All it is doing is letting the officer know that you are a fellow LE and yes, you can hope he does take it easy on you, but it is not guaranteed. Many people use their statuses in their career to get a perk. However, a traffic ticket is a minor offense. If a cop committed murder or rape, they would actually recieve a stiffer penalty than others in the same situation. How's that for the flip side?

 

[LSmith]

Did your husband flash his badge to get out of it ? Because that's the point I was making. That officer is abusing the power he's been given , granted it's a small abuse but human nature tends to have small abuses lead to larger ones. I'm not saying cops have to be perfect but yes they should be held to higher standards. They are given a lot of power more power to restict people's liberties than almost all other citizens and because of that they must be held to higher standards.

It is only your opinion (and many others) that they should be held to a higher standard. The same laws apply whether you are a police officer or a citizen. Cops make mistakes and occasionally break the law because they are HUMAN. They are held accountable just like you and me.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

Because he's mentally unstable.

There was an amazing study done in my area on police officers, and it found that many of them had serious emotional/mental issues. The higest rates of: domestic abuse, substance abuse issues, manipulation/cover ups were rampant, bullying behaviour, etc. We studied it in our criminology program, and it was done with the university, as well as police department.

Some officers complied, but many were anonymous, and the results were not surprising at all. Maybe this officer has a drug or gambling problem, and was trying to cover something up?

It is a high-risk field, and many officers exhibit impulse control issues. My highschoolers are repeatedly beat up, questioned and threatened by officers, and it's getting to be a problem, as many of them don't trust the officers around here anymore.

Of course, not all officers fall into this category, but I have to say, of the ones I know personally, they have no issues with breaking rules and bending the law to suit them. I don't know about abuse and criminal actitivites, but my neighbor officer frequently breaks parking and noise bylaws on our street.

So sorry this happened to you. Clearly, he needs a mental evaluation.

Tiger

I am extremely offended by this post.

 

[LSmith]

If a cop committed murder or rape, they would actually recieve a stiffer penalty than others in the same situation. How's that for the flip side?

This is true. Even if he was off duty.

There is no profession that I can think of that is vilified as much a police officer but hey as my husband always says "If you want to be liked, admired and respected be a fireman".

 

[Spoodleink]

Judges, congressmen, and conservation officers are among a few others that has power and can restrict a persons liberties but they are not held to the standard of LE. Also, I have been in the ER before waiting with my child who had a broken arm. I watched a dr walk up to triage, announce that he was dr such and such and needed to his brother in for some stitches to his hand. And he was taken right in without sitting and waiting. I have worked in the medial field and according to triage, that was a low priority but he used his status to get in. No different than flashing a badge. A badge alone will NOT get you out of a ticket. All it is doing is letting the officer know that you are a fellow LE and yes, you can hope he does take it easy on you, but it is not guaranteed. Many people use their statuses in their career to get a perk. However, a traffic ticket is a minor offense. If a cop committed murder or rape, they would actually recieve a stiffer penalty than others in the same situation. How's that for the flip side?

I know that's the flip side and my point was that is the way it should be. I do think flashing a badge is wrong, in VA drivng 20 above the speed limit is reckless driving not something that you can do accidently. An officer knowingly breaking a law and then trying to use his postion to not be punished for it is wrong. Getting out of a misdemenor that can carry jail time is not a perk, it's an abuse of power. I'm not going to sit here and agrue with you. You are not going to see my POV becasue you are so vested in being the injured party in this situation.

 

[need2cruise]

This is true. Even if he was off duty.

There is no profession that I can think of that is vilified as much a police officer but hey as my husband always says "If you want to be liked, admired and respected be a fireman".

Exactly! Heck, I'm sure many of these people on here would quit their jobs if they had to wear a bullet proof vest and carry a gun to work each day to guarantee they came home each night.

 

[Spoodleink]

It is only your opinion (and many others) that they should be held to a higher standard. The same laws apply whether you are a police officer or a citizen. Cops make mistakes and occasionally break the law because they are HUMAN. They are held accountable just like you and me.

It's not my opnion it's the philosophy that the US goverment is based on. Take it up with John Locke and Thomas Jefferson if you have a problem with it.

 

[need2cruise]

I know that's the flip side and my point was that is the way it should be. I do think flashing a badge is wrong, in VA drivng 20 above the speed limit is reckless driving not something that you can do accidently. An officer knowingly breaking a law and then trying to use his postion to not be punished for it is wrong. Getting out of a misdemenor that can carry jail time is not a perk, it's an abuse of power. I'm not going to sit here and agrue with you. You are not going to see my POV becasue you are so vested in being the injured party in this situation.

It has nothing to do with being an injured party. However, I know that what you are saying is an exaggerated truth or a story you have picked up from hearing someone else talk about. Because, unless you were traveling behind this cop and keeping up, you would not know how fast they were driving. Also, the only way to see this cop flash his badge to the other officer would be to stop your car and get out and watch...which would be near impossible if you were going 80 mph to keep up to match the speedometer to know how fast they were going to begin with. So there are some inconsistencies with the story. It is not one that was witnessed firsthand unless you were either cop or a passenger in the car.

Does it happen, yes I am sure it does. It happens in EVERY profession! You'd be crazy to think that no judge or political figure ever used their clout to get out of a ticket! Heck, people lie all the time to get out of tickets! People use their clout to get or get out of situations all the time. One career is not better than the other for this. To say it is wrong for police to and then saying it is ok for everyone else is hypocritical.

 

[LSmith]

Exactly! Heck, I'm sure many of these people on here would quit their jobs if they had to wear a bullet proof vest and carry a gun to work each day to guarantee they came home each night.

Not to mention wearing a 30 pound belt for at least 12 hours a day. Spit at, punched, kicked, swore at, shot at, called a pig 10 times a day, listening to cop eating donut jokes 10 times a day (boy they never get old!), and slaughtered daily in the media.


All for the same pay as a teachers salary (at least where I live).