Real ID: Married Women Beware!

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, the link has already been made and that is what we are talking about, woman who have been married for years now having to show their marriage license. For so many who are posting their experience, that is the case. Most already have a DL in their married name and have been married decades but are now saying that they have to show a marriage license. That does not make any sense. Of course when you first change your name, you have to show proof, but you should not have to keep showing it.

What has been said several times is the reason they are having to do this is is not the same as back then. That's why so many have the same experiences because when they did X the way to do it was Y and now today they have to do Z.

When the REAL-ID Act was passed in 2005 things done before then don't really matter because it was determined that processes would change and there would be minimum requirements for all issuing of DLs. That isn't to say that it doesn't suck, doesn't create huge pains in the you know what. If you look at it this way you have what the State was ok with, what the SSA was previously ok with and what the Federal government was previously ok with. Those previously ok with items have changed.

I'm not so against additional documents being required now because procedures were different in the past. I'm more against road blocks that prohibit or make it very difficult to get access to the documents needed. That's what people are running into (aside from those resenting having to get the documents in the first place) which I whole heartedly agree is a big problem.

 

[jo-jo]

What has been said several times is the reason they are having to do this is is not the same as back then. That's why so many have the same experiences because when they did X the way to do it was Y and now today they have to do Z.

When the REAL-ID Act was passed in 2005 things done before then don't really matter because it was determined that processes would change and there would be minimum requirements for all issuing of DLs. That isn't to say that it doesn't suck, doesn't create huge pains in the you know what. If you look at it this way you have what the State was ok with, what the SSA was previously ok with and what the Federal government was previously ok with. Those previously ok with items have changed.

I'm not so against additional documents being required now because procedures were different in the past. I'm more against road blocks that prohibit or make it very difficult to get access to the documents needed. That's what people are running into (aside from those resenting having to get the documents in the first place) which I whole heartedly agree is a big problem.

And yet, countless people have been given "free " precheck for a number of years without extra documentation. I believe the requirements for precheck is the same as for Real ID.

So far I haven't heard of anyone that has hit a dead end with documentation. But I might be one. County can't find the license, and the church has changed hands. Still looking if old records were kept, the new church isn't sure.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Again, every state may be difference but California is making you bring in all the documents, even if you previously did. I had to bring in my birth certificate, my SS Card and the two proofs of residence. No marriages or name changes for me so at least that was one last thing to worry about.

I am amazed at those who are saying they went to their states DMV and clicked a few buttons and got the Real ID in the mail.

I was just saying even in Nebraska someone still has to bring in their marriage license if their name doesn't match their DL.

I know CA is doing things differently than NE. I was trying to say that even if CA is doing things differently than NE the marriage license would still be needed for a name change in NE. The PP had said there was no need to show a marriage license in their state. That was the case because they had personally already done it before. If they hadn't done it they would need to bring it in order to do so and in order to renew or apply for a DL in their state.

My state was having people bring in additional documents as well IF the information hadn't previously been collected. This was before REAL-IDs were being given out. This was because while my state has been REAL-ID Compliant since 2007 the Federal government had adjusted necessary information over time. When I renewed in 2016 (REAL IDs weren't started in my state until August 2017) I was told to bring 2 pieces of documentation that reflected my address as that may be required. It was not for me but for others it was. That was part of the collection aspect of information for the systems. Our DL designs have also changed over time with more and more information being collected and contained within the DLs. There was a design previously where they placed the seals in the worst part (you had shine the light on it just right to see the person's fulll name) but the seals were part of the security 'upgrades' to the information collected (ETA: as well as make it harder to fake at DL I should add).

I'm not going to be eligible for online renewal because my DL expires in 2022 and we can only renew up to 1 year in advance so I have to go in person to get a REAL-ID vs a non-REAL ID but my guess is if I was eligible to renew online it would be because my state already has the necessary documentation in their system to verify my identity. That's probably why you see that poster from TX easily be able to renew. If their systems already reflected that their identity has been previously verified with the necessary information now required, it wouldn't be overly difficult. Some states are clearly making things harder than they need to be but that is probably because of processes done over time (that would be my guess).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And yet, countless people have been given "free " precheck for a number of years without extra documentation. I believe the requirements for precheck is the same as for Real ID.

So far I haven't heard of anyone that has hit a dead end with documentation. But I might be one. County can't find the license, and the church has changed hands. Still looking if old records were kept, the new church isn't sure.

TSA-Precheck randomly (or in some cases not so random) is kinda a different entity though I do understand your point. REAL-ID was about the issuance of DL and ID cards in a standard way with specific minimum information being required to be collected and stored amongst all states.

As far as your County not finding the license that must be a real pain and I hope they find it. I know many have gone to digital but of course if you got married before that the information would need to transfered to digital and you'd need hard copy for that. In your situation is it that someone never transferred the information or they can't find the hard copy to transfer it digitally (assuming things are digital in your neck of the woods)?

 

[3threebabies]

And yet, countless people have been given "free " precheck for a number of years without extra documentation. I believe the requirements for precheck is the same as for Real ID.

So far I haven't heard of anyone that has hit a dead end with documentation. But I might be one. County can't find the license, and the church has changed hands. Still looking if old records were kept, the new church isn't sure.

@jo-jo that does really suck. I would like to think there is some backup plan for identity and name change proof for those who try all reasonable avenues, but...

As far as discussion above regarding social security card: proof of social security number is required for Real ID, but it does not prove full legal name or legal US residency status. Both full legal name and residency status must be provided separately from a social security card. (For example a current DL and birth certificate/marriage certificate/divorce decree/etc.)

I do not wish to make this any type of social or political statement, but some states required proof of legal US residency or citizenship status for DL separate from Real ID requirements. Other states wished to provide legal identity documents to state residents regardless of US residency status. People who live in states whose DMV already had all required information on file and available do not have nearly as many aforementioned hoops. For example, my husband was able to get his Real ID online in PA; I cannot. PA had no previous official record of my name change to connect me with my birth certificate—thus no proof of my US citizenship required for Real ID.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Not sure of other states but California requires documentation of why the name on your Birth Certificate is not the same as that on your ID. A married woman would need her marriage license/certificate.

Are there other documents you can use instead of a birth certificate? My birth certificate is in German (Army brat born in Germany). I do have a Certification of Birth Abroad (with my birth name). I suppose I would need that along with my marriage certificate?

 

[jo-jo]

@jo-jo that does really suck. I would like to think there is some backup plan for identity and name change proof for those who try all reasonable avenues, but...

As far as discussion above regarding social security card: proof of social security number is required for Real ID, but it does not prove full legal name or legal US residency status. Both full legal name and residency status must be provided separately from a social security card. (For example a current DL and birth certificate/marriage certificate/divorce decree/etc.)

I do not wish to make this any type of social or political statement, but some states required proof of legal US residency or citizenship status for DL separate from Real ID requirements. Other states wished to provide legal identity documents to state residents regardless of US residency status. People who live in states whose DMV already had all required information on file and available do not have nearly as many aforementioned hoops. For example, my husband was able to get his Real ID online in PA; I cannot. PA had no previous official record of my name change to connect me with my birth certificate—thus no proof of my US citizenship required for Real ID.

I didn't even know you could apply online. So I tried. It came back since I got my DL before 2003, they don't have the documentation on file. Looking online, they are asking for the chain of name changes. Wonder why the 2003 date. Did you not need it before then???


edited to add....I tried my DH license. He was turn down too. Gave a general contact DMV for Real ID.

 

[Lilsia]

I was just saying even in Nebraska someone still has to bring in their marriage license if their name doesn't match their DL.

I know CA is doing things differently than NE. I was trying to say that even if CA is doing things differently than NE the marriage license would still be needed for a name change in NE. The PP had said there was no need to show a marriage license in their state. That was the case because they had personally already done it before. If they hadn't done it they would need to bring it in order to do so and in order to renew or apply for a DL in their state.

My state was having people bring in additional documents as well IF the information hadn't previously been collected. This was before REAL-IDs were being given out. This was because while my state has been REAL-ID Compliant since 2007 the Federal government had adjusted necessary information over time. When I renewed in 2016 (REAL IDs weren't started in my state until August 2017) I was told to bring 2 pieces of documentation that reflected my address as that may be required. It was not for me but for others it was. That was part of the collection aspect of information for the systems. Our DL designs have also changed over time with more and more information being collected and contained within the DLs. There was a design previously where they placed the seals in the worst part (you had shine the light on it just right to see the person's fulll name) but the seals were part of the security 'upgrades' to the information collected (ETA: as well as make it harder to fake at DL I should add).

I'm not going to be eligible for online renewal because my DL expires in 2022 and we can only renew up to 1 year in advance so I have to go in person to get a REAL-ID vs a non-REAL ID but my guess is if I was eligible to renew online it would be because my state already has the necessary documentation in their system to verify my identity. That's probably why you see that poster from TX easily be able to renew. If their systems already reflected that their identity has been previously verified with the necessary information now required, it wouldn't be overly difficult. Some states are clearly making things harder than they need to be but that is probably because of processes done over time (that would be my guess).

FYI, I never had to bring my marriage license to the DMV when I got married. Having my updated social security card was enough. I still got a real ID DL and never once showed them my marriage certificate, let alone my old divorce papers and that marriage certificate. I agree that some states are making it much harder then it needs to be, especially since this is mostly aimed at woman who have changed their names after marriage.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

FYI, I never had to bring my marriage license to the DMV when I got married. Having my updated social security card was enough. I still got a real ID DL and never once showed them my marriage certificate, let alone my old divorce papers and that marriage certificate.

My comments were to say nowadays you would have to show your certificate of marriage license to change your name in your state on your DL. 24 years ago you may not have. Now some states are saying in a summarized way "we know you didn't need to back then but you do now". For Nebraska they aren't saying that because your DL name matches the SS card and they aren't requiring anything further than that. My state is the same way. As long as all your documents you bring in have the same name across the board in my state you don't need to bring a certified copy of your marriage license. Another state may say even if all your documents have the same name I still need a certified copy of your marriage license. That aspect with the different things with the different states is frustrating to say the least.

I agree that some states are making it much harder then it needs to be, especially since this is mostly aimed at woman who have changed their names after marriage.

It's not aimed at women. It's anyone who changes their name for whatever reason for the purposes of identity verification. In our Western society women often are the ones who change names due to marriage as we are still considered a patrilineal society in terms of 'carrying on the name' viewpoint but you have men who change their names, you have a growing trend of couples creating their own last names, you have individuals who were adopted and other various reasons that a name change was done.

 

[3threebabies]

I didn't even know you could apply online. So I tried. It came back since I got my DL before 2003, they don't have the documentation on file. Looking online, they are asking for the chain of name changes. Wonder why the 2003 date. Did you not need it before then???

I don’t know about 2003 specifically, but the Real ID stuff is related to post 9/11 laws. We didn’t move to PA until 2015. I took my marriage certificate with me, but they didn’t care about the paper trail for my name. PA DMV required my CT DL and birth certificate only which is not enough for Real ID with a name change. It is still enough for a PA DL; which is also enough to drive and vote and some other things PA lists in the FAQ.

 

[disneychrista]

Are there other documents you can use instead of a birth certificate? My birth certificate is in German (Army brat born in Germany). I do have a Certification of Birth Abroad (with my birth name). I suppose I would need that along with my marriage certificate?

Yes. Here is the list from the California DMV Website

• Valid, unexpired U.S. passport or passport card
• Original or Certified copy of U.S birth certificate (issued by a city, county, or state vital statistics office). “Abbreviated” or “Abstract” certificates are NOT accepted
• U.S. Certificate of Birth Abroad or Consular Report of Birth Abroad of U.S. Citizen
• Unexpired foreign passport with valid U.S. Visa and approved I-94 form
• Certified copy of birth certificate from a U.S. Territory
• Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
• Valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card
• Valid, unexpired Employment Authorization Document (EAD) Card (I-766) or valid/expired EAD Card with Notice of Action (I-797 C)
• Valid/expired Permanent Resident Card with Notice of Action (I-797 C) or Approval Notice (I-797)
• Unexpired foreign passport stamped “Processed for I-551”
• Documents reflecting TPS benefit eligibility

 

[Disney Doll]

I had no problem. I looked at the information required, brought it to my local AAA office (in CT they do drivers licenses ....yay!) and was done in about 10 minutes.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

se times. This should be interesting. I ALWAYS filed the court papers with social security office and got a card with my new name, but sounds like this isn't foolproof. I have no clue where all those marriage licenses and divorce papers are

I was married, divorced, remarried. I have to order the old marriage license and divorce papers. I have zero idea what day my divorce went through, so that is going to be fun to track down. I tossed those after 10 years, figured I wouldn't need them anymore. Guess I was wrong.

They need to be able to accurately track changes to your legal name. Friend I referenced earlier took her SS card (birth name), passport (married name), and current driver's license (married name). Because she didn't have her marriage license with her, they could not document the legal change from birth name to married name, so they wouldn't issue the real ID. (She also had a bunch of other identifying stuff- I think she said tax return, a bill in her name/address, and... something else, can't remember. They weren't interested in any of that at all.)

I haven't read all the comments, but I guess I don't see the big deal. You can request copies of birth certificates, marriage licenses, etc. When I got my pass port and TSA precheck, I had to provide all of those things. When I changed my name on my drivers license I had to provide a list of things. I understand that its more difficult for elderly people, some who might have never gotten official copies of marriage certificates and such, but most of the general public should be able to obtain those things fairly easily.

I think what is most irritating is that I have already provided those documents. When I got my license, at 18, I had to provide my birth certificate. When I changed my name due to my first marriage, I had to provide the marriage certificate. When I changed my name a 2nd time, due to 2nd marriage, I had to provide the new marriage certificate. Why do I need to prove once again that I am that person, when I've done so already? It's just more crap for a woman to have to deal with.

 

[luvnwdwgal]

I’ve had a passport since 2010 for a cruise we went on. Need to renew it next year. I’m just going to use my passport when I fly. I’d probably have to go back through SSA to change my name on mine because for some reason it has my nickname on it and not the name that’s on my birth certificate and driver’s license. I should have changed it when I got married when I changed my last name but really didn’t think anything about it then. I was 16 when I got it originally and 19 when I got married and didn’t know better. I know we’ll be going on more cruises. Already planning one in 2021 so I’ll need a passport anyway.

 

[jo-jo]

I was married, divorced, remarried. I have to order the old marriage license and divorce papers. I have zero idea what day my divorce went through, so that is going to be fun to track down. I tossed those after 10 years, figured I wouldn't need them anymore. Guess I was wrong.





I think what is most irritating is that I have already provided those documents. When I got my license, at 18, I had to provide my birth certificate. When I changed my name due to my first marriage, I had to provide the marriage certificate. When I changed my name a 2nd time, due to 2nd marriage, I had to provide the new marriage certificate. Why do I need to prove once again that I am that person, when I've done so already? It's just more crap for a woman to have to deal with.

Yes, yes and yes. I've had the same name for decades, paid bills, filed taxes, lived in the same house forever, been called for jury duty half dozen times, every piece of paper that needs my name has my current name. No some are Jane Doe, some are Jane Smith, some are Jane Doe -Smith. Everything is one name, no nickname, no middle name or not.

Yes, I understand rules change and the world isn't the same as the 70's, but really, after decades of using this name, I have to jump through hoops.

And all this grief is beyond having to pay for copies of stuff. Having to track down where the paper work might be is what is terrible and not knowing the next step.

Two months ago, I had hoped to get precheck, so we started to send away for copies. I thought if we got everything back by early- mid Oct, we'd still ok for getting precheck. We are now 38 days from trip and still don't have paperwork, so no precheck.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

One way or another this Real ID thing will eventually get settled by everyone who either needs to jump through hoops or doesn't. Although there will be some women who will have an easy time of it, and some men who will have a hassle, the reality is that most of the people who will need to take extra steps to get a Real ID will be women.

Going forward I would love to see official forms change. Who decreed 3 lines: first; middle; last? A whole lot of problems could be solved for women who take their husbands' names upon marriage - still the majority - if official forms had 4 lines: first name; middle name;, last name at birth, current last name. Then the only thing that would need to change on official records for anyone would be the current last name, if different from the one a person is born with (for example, upon marriage or re-marriage.) A woman would never need to decide between 2 middle names - the one she was born with, or her "maiden" name.

Even though women are half the population, there is still so often an unexamined default that assumes a male's life-pattern should be the norm; in the case of virtually all official forms a man whose first, middle and last names remain the same throughout his life.

 

[RamblingMad]

One way or another this Real ID thing will eventually get settled by everyone who either needs to jump through hoops or doesn't. Although there will be some women who will have an easy time of it, and some men who will have a hassle, the reality is that most of the people who will need to take extra steps to get a Real ID will be women.

Going forward I would love to see official forms change. Who decreed 3 lines: first; middle; last? A whole lot of problems could be solved for women who take their husbands' names upon marriage - still the majority - if official forms had 4 lines: first name; middle name;, last name at birth, current last name. Then the only thing that would need to change on official records for anyone would be the current last name, if different from the one a person is born with (for example, upon marriage or re-marriage.) A woman would never need to decide between 2 middle names - the one she was born with, or her "maiden" name.

Even though women are half the population, there is still so often an unexamined default that assumes a male's life-pattern should be the norm; in the case of virtually all official forms a man whose first, middle and last names remain the same throughout his life.

It would be so much simpler if women didn’t take their husband’s last name.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It would be so much simpler if women didn’t take their husband’s last name.

Hello

I didn't take my husband's last name. I did change my name but it was hyphenated form of my maiden and my husband's last name.

It sure isn't easy but by far changing my DL, my SS and my passport has been the easiest aspect to that. It's the banks and all the other paperwork that has caused the issue either because the length of my name or because the hypen isn't accepted in the system.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

One way or another this Real ID thing will eventually get settled by everyone who either needs to jump through hoops or doesn't. Although there will be some women who will have an easy time of it, and some men who will have a hassle, the reality is that most of the people who will need to take extra steps to get a Real ID will be women.

Going forward I would love to see official forms change. Who decreed 3 lines: first; middle; last? A whole lot of problems could be solved for women who take their husbands' names upon marriage - still the majority - if official forms had 4 lines: first name; middle name;, last name at birth, current last name. Then the only thing that would need to change on official records for anyone would be the current last name, if different from the one a person is born with (for example, upon marriage or re-marriage.) A woman would never need to decide between 2 middle names - the one she was born with, or her "maiden" name.

Even though women are half the population, there is still so often an unexamined default that assumes a male's life-pattern should be the norm; in the case of virtually all official forms a man whose first, middle and last names remain the same throughout his life.

I still have my middle name from when I was born I never wanted to remove that and just put in place, legally speaking that is, my maiden name. The hypen in my case is often the issue so I sometimes do have to smush my last name together without the hyphen included and on bank cards and whatnot it's just my middle inital on it rather than my full middle name.

 

[RamblingMad]

Hello

I didn't take my husband's last name. I did change my name but it was hyphenated form of my maiden and my husband's last name.

It sure isn't easy but by far changing my DL, my SS and my passport has been the easiest aspect to that. It's the banks and all the other paperwork that has caused the issue either because the length of my name or because the hypen isn't accepted in the system.

Don’t you think this name change tradition is weird?